Why? If it is basically the same 7nm, and likely still PCIe4 (which is fine), DDR5 is something which can offer some performance support, especially for APUs.
It's an undisclosed "improved" 7nm process - not the same one.
Super-expensive new memory type makes little sense outside enterprise, and even less for budget systems, such as those that would even consider APUs.
For Zen, the APU designs are delayed 6 - 9 months from the leading edge of the architecture. The dies are monolithic so if AMD decided to design APUs with DDR5-capable IMCs, they'd be stuck with the cost ramifications for their low-end, low-margin parts. (And not only cost to manufacture the APU and higher APU price, but also pricier motherboards and forcing your most cost-conscious customers to spring for overpriced memory.)
The memory controllers are now located on the IO die in all but the APUs, so they could add it to the IO die if desired, but I doubt the desktop would benefit a whole lot from it. Maybe they would do it for a ThreadRipper version.
I would agree with 5080 : DDR5 / PCIe5 seems more likely with Zen 4 (which with a bit of luck could be on TSMC EUV 5nm) : it would be quite a lot of improvements at the same time :).
I wish also that it would finally support different kind of Non-Volatile Memory (NVM), like SRAM cache to be made from SOT-MRAM and compatibility with CXL / Gen-z for Storage Class Memory (SCM) : all that combined with chiplet and X3D could bring some important improvements in terms of latency !!!
Ddr5 is most likely for the generation after Zen3. Consumers really don't stand to benefit much from Ddr5. It's not like we're desperately needing more capacity with am4 supporting up to 128GB already. Data centers will benefit, they always need more capacity and bandwidth. Once you hear of Ddr5 support for epyc, Ryzen won't be far behind.
Not necessarily your common or garden Datacentre, but something that is more oriented to HPC . It may still be too expensive in buckets of terabytes of DDR5 .APU's are popular with consumers but not a great profit centre. Lisa Su is to Join TSLA in next year.
Zen3 will certainly not be DDR5 because it uses the same AM4 socket. AMD will need more pins in the socket for DDR5. I expect DDR5 for Zen4 to coincide with there new socket.
But but you need to consider Threadripper, we could still have Zen3-based TR5 with new IO die coming out by late 2021 with reduced amount of DDR5 channels, no inter-socket SerDers and less PCIe channnels. That'll significantly reduce the cost to built a 3/4 chiplet TR.
The very same IO die can be used on future "AM5" socket as well to enable 2 to 3 chiplet Ryzen CPU, while 1 chiplet design can be replaced by a SOC + (optional) GPU chiplet configuration to enable better APU options.
With the memory controllers on the separate I/O die, AMD can easily segregate memory support on their enterprise/HEDT and consumer parts: DDR5 adoption on the consumer side can trail 1 - 2 generations, and still use the exact same core chiplets.
There was also a mention of the custom processor for the Frontier computer. There was a mention of mid-year (2021) for shipment. Previous interviews say it is not Milan.
It's already a bloody massacre.. AMD can deliver dramatically more cores per socket, at dramatically lower power, whilst also delivering higher overall performance AND more performance per core. At a lower price.
Sadly, that actually makes a difference. In Spain, the Dell's store sells 2 (two) laptops with Ryzen, and they are Inspiron junk. While they cover pretty much Intel's entire portfolio of the last 2-3 generations, Finding a good laptop with Ryzen 3000 is still not so easy (to be fair, on the mobility side, Intel still has a decent chance against the 3***; once 4*** models come out, it will be a no brainer).
The bloody massacre is ending fast. Intel will beging to deliver Ice Lake SP to big OEMs at the middle of 2020 and the offical "end of 2020" launch will be only for common people. Datacenters will are satisfy a lot earlier, as usual. But right now exist the blody massacre, AMD is in the unconfortable situation that Companies purchase only 64 cores SKUs from AMD, leaving absolute dominium to Intel up to 32(28) cores. The reason is simple, AMD Epyc is unable to clock fast enough to beat Intel in the very large sub 32 cores market. Cloud is only a portion of overall server market (15%), in many other applications a many core SKU is absolutely not the first choice, but the per core performance prevail by an huge margin. Unfortunately TSMC 7nm is unable to clock higher than 3.3-3.4Ghz in Epyc, Intel is shipping server SKUs with 4-4.4Ghz of turbo. No competition outside cloud market, 14nm is far more efficent and great preformer.
Zen2 was designed to compete with Ice Lake not Cascade Lake. Right now AMD has the IPC advantage against Cascade Lake and with Ice Lake Intel will only catch up to pull a little ahead of Zen2. However, Ice Lake won't be going up against Zen2, it will be going up against Zen3.
In benchmarks when Epyc 2 was released we saw the 32 core 7502 dominating the best Intel 8280. The 8280 has a 200Mhz higher base clock and 650MHz higher boost clock. The 7502 isn't even the fastest 32 core AMD has, that would be the 7542. We also see benchmarks where the 7402p goes up against the Intel 8268 and win more benchmarks that it loses all while having a 100MHz base clock and 550MHz boost clock disadvantage.That is what the IPC advantage does, it lets the CPU compete against something that is clocked 10-20% faster. We already know that Intel cannot get past 4GHz boost with a 4c Ice Lake. What is Intel going to do when it has a CPU with 7x more cores?
We also know that TSMC can clock Epyc higher than 3.4GHz as Threadripper 3970x clocks 3.7GHz base and 4.5GHz boost. The only issue is the TDP goes from 180W on the 7502 to 280W on Threadripper.
yea ok sure gondalf, keep shilling for intel you have proof of this ?? amd doesnt need high clocks to compete with intel, intel needs the high clocks to compete with amd.
Not really. They care about single core max performance. In this case Intel are still head of the pack thanks to the significant clock lead, but AMD are ahead in the IPC race. The combination of these is what is important. If AMD can just bring up their clocks with Zen3, they would have the lead. With clocks and IPC gains, they are looking to be the convincing winner once we have seen what both teams have to offer.
Only a very, very specific subset of high-refresh-rate gamers. Most of the relevant performance comes from the GPU, and AMD CPUs aren't a bottleneck on that like they used to be. The rest of us care more about overall performance and value for money, and Intel suck on both of those metrics.
You forgot Ice Lake Ep 10nm+ in the Q4 this year. So on server side the two companies will are neck to neck at the year end. Ice Lake EP looks like a very strong performer from recent leaks. On the consumer side, i fully expect a very limited impact of Zen 3 up to the end of 2021, the end of the 2020 launch will be on paper, without impact on revenue. So basically the landscape will not change, this giving Intel all the time to catch up in consumer.
People aren't forgetting about Ice Lake, people are just not expecting Ice Lake to be this killer CPU.
Like other's have mentioned, AMD built Zen2 to favourably compete against Ice Lake, but now Ice Lake has to go against Zen3, which is going to be better than Zen2.
Time will tell, but just like Zen parts, people won't be buying Ice Lake Xeons en-mass due to the qualification needed for new hardware, and there will be new hardware
Current Ice Lake is not the same as Ice Lake EP that was mention. It is unknown what that would be like but I pretty sure Intel is hard at work at overcoming the issue with 10nm.
But the really question for average customers ( gamer's are not average customer ), would you rather lave lower power / longer battery life / portable usage instead higher performance graphics and such that may never be used - how much GPU do you need for spread sheets. Keep in mind that Ice Lake GPU is more powerful than the older 14nm Integrated GPUs
Ice Lake EP is nothing more than the server version of Ice Lake. Just like Sandy Bridge EP is the server version of Sandy Bridge. The micro-architecture is the same, just made for higher core and socket counts.
Core count is the big thing that AMD pushes - so it should be significant - keeping in account that max Ice Lake core's is 4 and lower frequency but because of Architecture changes, higher performance than equivalent Intel Mobile CPU's
he micro-architecture is same as Ice Lake chips - but much improved on 14nm chips including the recent 10th generation chips.
and people keep pushing that clock speed is king, and because amd cant reach high clocks, thats why amd doesnt have the performance lead, but, they dont need the high clocks, intel does. think about it hstewart, even with lower clocks, zen 2 is competing very nicely with intel, what would it be like if zen 2 did get to the same clocks that intel does ?????
This is typically on forums, about ignoring this function and instead calling it 14+++++. But keep in mind Intel 10nm is pretty much the same as AMD 7nm and Intel 7nm is same as AMD 5nm.
amd where is intel 10 nm hstewart? practically no where to be found, IN VOLUME !! does 10 nm even have more then 4 cores yet?? come on man, post something to prove your bias towards intel, you jsut as bad as gondalf
Mobile market is larges part of market now days - just visit you local bestbuy. Desktop's are far becoming dinosaurs in the computer industry. my last one is actually not even normal pc - but a over 10 year old dual xeon 3ghz core 2 supermicro. Unfortunately the audio chip is not supported by Windows 10 and it sits - Until the i7's came out it was faster than anything out there.
I'm always fascinated by how abnormal your computer buying habits are, and how you still think you have insight into what the majority of consumers and/or enthusiasts want.
First off, AMD knows that Ice Lake for Mobile is not Ice Lake for Servers, just like Intel knows that AMD's Ryzen 4000 APUs are not Epyc Milan.
Secondly, the average user could do everything on an ARM powered device. No one needs an Intel Ice Lake CPU, they need a Processor capable of running Chrome/Firefox, and the odd Facebook game, something any decent ARM CPU can do. And ARM completely wipes the floor with Intel when it comes to efficiency. So you're asking if they'd prefer longer battery life, yes they would, but that means even Intel is gonna lose. And don't go off on the whole "But X86" tangent. The average consumer doesn't even know what the hell that is. All they care about is perceived performance for their web browsing needs.
Now if we then bump to the professional users, those who need to do actual work on their PCs, they need performance before 30 minutes extra of battery life. So Intel or AMD, to them, it doesn't matter, what matters is what laptop will be best for their needs, and/or whatever their company buys them. So at this level, nobody cares about Intel vs AMD, it's all about "Can I get my work done in a timely manner". And news flash, people aren't going with Intel because it's better, people are going with Intel because of the marketing. They know the name Intel, because they saw it in an ad, and they go with it. That's how simple minded the average consumer is.
The naming numbers of the nodes are whacked, yeah. But just because the naming is whacked, doesn't mean that 7nm TSMC is worse than Intel 10nm. We haven't seen Intel 10nm in anything but small, low power parts. Remember that Ice Lake EP is going to need to be vastly bigger than the parts in the laptops, a significant number bigger. Means yields have to finally be good enough, or Intel will suffer.
That's on top of remembering that AMD is not standing still. They're busy with Milan Zen3 cores too. so Ice Lake EP has to go against something that'll be better than Zen2 Rome Cores, which is not an easy task. Can Intel do it? Absolutely. Will it be the be-all end-all you're hoping for? Not a chance.
Just wanted to add. My new work laptop is an HP Enterprise laptop, with an AMD Ryzen CPU. I'm guessing the reason my company went with this is because it was cheaper, not because of Intel vs AMD. So far, I've had 0 issues with it. I had an Intel laptop before, and that too ran just fine. The literal reason I have an AMD laptop for work, is because it was cheaper.
Intel doesn't give a rat's bottom what you, me or Korguz buy. They don't care if you happen to buy a Dell Laptop, or an HP one, or so-on. They care what Dell Buys, they care what Amazon buys, they care what Microsoft buys, you know... those ordering several thousand units at a time. Intel woke the heck up when people started buying AMD Epyc CPUs, so much in fact that for every % of the server market that AMD captures, they try desperately to claw back.
They don't care about a notebook CPU sale, that's even less money than they make on the Desktop CPUs, they care about the huge server sales, and that hurts them the most.
" Desktop's are far becoming dinosaurs in the computer industry " maybe in some markets, but no one i know is looking for a notebook, they STILL want a desktop. so please hstewart, you keep saying desktops are dead, but do you have a source for this, or is it just more of your intel bias ? besides, 10 series is low volume, 4 core parts that seem to perform on par or worse then the 14nm products, and could very well perform worse then ryzen 4000, just have to wait to see on that one.
Pretty much. Only gamers buy desktops. Our company is completely gonna move away desktop. In future we only buy laptops and all of my friends who don`t play Computer games buy laptops... Yep desktop is dead dinosaur. Fortunately I myself did one fossil and am now owner of big full tower pc, with 64Gb ram, several teras storage etc... but I know that I belong to tiny, tiny minority. Even I have more laptop computers than desktop.
" Only gamers buy desktops " nope.. a few people i know are replacing their notebooks with desktops cause they need a little more power, to get that power in a notebook, costs a little more then they are willing to spend, the only notebooks where i work, are used by the salesmen that spend most of their time in the field, the rest, are desktops. i guess each area and region are different.
Hstewart, just checked my local best buy, and the computer store i would rather go to, and well. local comp store has 5 10xxx series based notebooks listed, 3 are out of stock, 1 model has a total of 6, and the 5th has 11 total in stock. all based on comet lake. NONE based on the 1065g67 cpu. 2 lenovo, and 3 MSI. local best buy only has 2 models based on the 10th gen cpu, and both are based on the 10710 cpu, and, of course, they are dells. and guess what, NONE are based on 10 nm, so i ask again, where is intels 10 nm ????? maybe where you are, they are available, but not here. and looks like 10nm, is also still stuck on 4 cores.
a knew when i saw this post, that Hstewart wouldn't reply. keeps saying how intels 10nm is available and shipping, but, in fact, it is not shipping as well as he believes it to be.
"On the consumer side, i fully expect a very limited impact of Zen 3 up to the end of 2021" Based on what, your wet dreams? :D It's one thing to say it won't be out in significant numbers in 2020, but another thing entirely to add another year on for shits and giggles.
The 7nm+ comment is interesting. It's hard for me to imagine AMD not using TSMC for Zen 3, and it has no other 'advanced 7nm' process.
As for Zen 3 consumer release, my previous speculation was that AMD will release 8-16 cores only, with Zen 2 APUs at 6-8 cores, in 2020. AMD will release Threadripper Zen 3 in 2021, and next gen APU, so that's a clear 2021 release.
The most interesting part here is 'consumer APUs'. I had previously assumed that AMD will, going forward, be releasing new CPUs with prev gen APUs, but if we assume that Zen 4 is a 2022 product, then releasing Zen 3 desktop APUs in late 2021 means that it might not be part of of the next gen lineup. Which may be reasonable, if Zen 3 APUs are DDR4 and Zen 4 is DDR5.
can see Amd releasing a line up of zen 3 ryzen 5, 7 and 9 products but with limited supply at a premium price at the same time as the epyc line it would make business sense to do that and game a higher margin and then push it hard in 2021 when production is good
Q3/4 2020 - Consumer Zen 3 4000 series (15-18m after Zen 2) Q4 2020 - Epyc and TR Zen 3 (but mostly available from Q1 2021) Q2 2021 - Zen 3 APU Mobile (15m after Renoir) Q3 2021 - Zen 3 APU Desktop
Depends on the initial volume they can get with Zen 3. If they can satisfy most of the volume in the high end consumer chips, they'd do it as the movement/change in enterprise is much slower.
If any EPYC CPU Motherboard comes with muliple PCIe 4.0 support, so that we can build servers only PCIe 4.0 using multiple drive say, Gigabyte AORUS Nvme Add-in-Card 8TB High Performance Gaming, Advanced Thermal Solution with Copper Heatsink, Toshiba 3D TLC, 5 Year Warranty SSD GP-ASACNE6800TTTDA https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-Performance-Advanc... We can built ultra fast Database server.
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Soulkeeper - Thursday, March 5, 2020 - link
Any mention of DDR5 support and timeframes on the AM4 replacement ?Will Zen3 launch with a new chipset and ddr5 ?
Luckbox - Thursday, March 5, 2020 - link
DDR5 would be too radical change for Zen 3.peevee - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Why? If it is basically the same 7nm, and likely still PCIe4 (which is fine), DDR5 is something which can offer some performance support, especially for APUs.Hul8 - Sunday, March 8, 2020 - link
It's an undisclosed "improved" 7nm process - not the same one.Super-expensive new memory type makes little sense outside enterprise, and even less for budget systems, such as those that would even consider APUs.
For Zen, the APU designs are delayed 6 - 9 months from the leading edge of the architecture. The dies are monolithic so if AMD decided to design APUs with DDR5-capable IMCs, they'd be stuck with the cost ramifications for their low-end, low-margin parts. (And not only cost to manufacture the APU and higher APU price, but also pricier motherboards and forcing your most cost-conscious customers to spring for overpriced memory.)
Freeb!rd - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
The memory controllers are now located on the IO die in all but the APUs, so they could add it to the IO die if desired, but I doubt the desktop would benefit a whole lot from it. Maybe they would do it for a ThreadRipper version.5080 - Thursday, March 5, 2020 - link
Zen 4 is a more likely candidate for AM5 and DDR5 / PCIe5 support.Diogene7 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
I would agree with 5080 : DDR5 / PCIe5 seems more likely with Zen 4 (which with a bit of luck could be on TSMC EUV 5nm) : it would be quite a lot of improvements at the same time :).I wish also that it would finally support different kind of Non-Volatile Memory (NVM), like SRAM cache to be made from SOT-MRAM and compatibility with CXL / Gen-z for Storage Class Memory (SCM) : all that combined with chiplet and X3D could bring some important improvements in terms of latency !!!
Ej24 - Thursday, March 5, 2020 - link
Ddr5 is most likely for the generation after Zen3. Consumers really don't stand to benefit much from Ddr5. It's not like we're desperately needing more capacity with am4 supporting up to 128GB already. Data centers will benefit, they always need more capacity and bandwidth. Once you hear of Ddr5 support for epyc, Ryzen won't be far behind.haukionkannel - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
It is all posible that data centers get ddr5 one year before normal customers get it!And I am quite sure that even datacenter keep ddr4 this year.
MASSAMKULABOX - Sunday, March 15, 2020 - link
Not necessarily your common or garden Datacentre, but something that is more oriented to HPC . It may still be too expensive in buckets of terabytes of DDR5.APU's are popular with consumers but not a great profit centre.
Lisa Su is to Join TSLA in next year.
FreckledTrout - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Zen3 will certainly not be DDR5 because it uses the same AM4 socket. AMD will need more pins in the socket for DDR5. I expect DDR5 for Zen4 to coincide with there new socket.dotjaz - Friday, March 13, 2020 - link
But but you need to consider Threadripper, we could still have Zen3-based TR5 with new IO die coming out by late 2021 with reduced amount of DDR5 channels, no inter-socket SerDers and less PCIe channnels. That'll significantly reduce the cost to built a 3/4 chiplet TR.The very same IO die can be used on future "AM5" socket as well to enable 2 to 3 chiplet Ryzen CPU, while 1 chiplet design can be replaced by a SOC + (optional) GPU chiplet configuration to enable better APU options.
Hul8 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
With the memory controllers on the separate I/O die, AMD can easily segregate memory support on their enterprise/HEDT and consumer parts: DDR5 adoption on the consumer side can trail 1 - 2 generations, and still use the exact same core chiplets.JayNor - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
There was also a mention of the custom processor for the Frontier computer. There was a mention of mid-year (2021) for shipment. Previous interviews say it is not Milan.Machinus - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Intel is pitting 14nm++++ against AMD's 7nm in 2020?This is going to be a slaughter.
yetanotherhuman - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
It's already a bloody massacre..AMD can deliver dramatically more cores per socket, at dramatically lower power, whilst also delivering higher overall performance AND more performance per core. At a lower price.
Kangal - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Doesn't matter, they don't come with a "Intel Inside" sticker on their computer...demian_thorne - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Lisa offers that off the secret menu, whisper you want it and you got it but it simply costs twice as much :)PS: I am simply adding sarcasm to your sarcasm
yankeeDDL - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Sadly, that actually makes a difference. In Spain, the Dell's store sells 2 (two) laptops with Ryzen, and they are Inspiron junk. While they cover pretty much Intel's entire portfolio of the last 2-3 generations, Finding a good laptop with Ryzen 3000 is still not so easy (to be fair, on the mobility side, Intel still has a decent chance against the 3***; once 4*** models come out, it will be a no brainer).haukionkannel - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Yep. Intel still sell much more cpus than amd...Gondalf - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
The bloody massacre is ending fast. Intel will beging to deliver Ice Lake SP to big OEMs at the middle of 2020 and the offical "end of 2020" launch will be only for common people. Datacenters will are satisfy a lot earlier, as usual.But right now exist the blody massacre, AMD is in the unconfortable situation that Companies purchase only 64 cores SKUs from AMD, leaving absolute dominium to Intel up to 32(28) cores. The reason is simple, AMD Epyc is unable to clock fast enough to beat Intel in the very large sub 32 cores market. Cloud is only a portion of overall server market (15%), in many other applications a many core SKU is absolutely not the first choice, but the per core performance prevail by an huge margin.
Unfortunately TSMC 7nm is unable to clock higher than 3.3-3.4Ghz in Epyc, Intel is shipping server SKUs with 4-4.4Ghz of turbo. No competition outside cloud market, 14nm is far more efficent and great preformer.
The_Countess - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
intel's 4.4ghz turbo for a single core, while having overal twice the power draw per core. basically almost nobody in the server market cares.TOC is where it's at and the TOC of intel chips is ATROCIOUS compared to any AMD Rome chip.
edzieba - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
TOC is mostly governed by software, which with per-core pricing being the norm is not favourable for AMD.Walkeer - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
you live in some alternative universe, man.schujj07 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Zen2 was designed to compete with Ice Lake not Cascade Lake. Right now AMD has the IPC advantage against Cascade Lake and with Ice Lake Intel will only catch up to pull a little ahead of Zen2. However, Ice Lake won't be going up against Zen2, it will be going up against Zen3.In benchmarks when Epyc 2 was released we saw the 32 core 7502 dominating the best Intel 8280. The 8280 has a 200Mhz higher base clock and 650MHz higher boost clock. The 7502 isn't even the fastest 32 core AMD has, that would be the 7542. We also see benchmarks where the 7402p goes up against the Intel 8268 and win more benchmarks that it loses all while having a 100MHz base clock and 550MHz boost clock disadvantage.That is what the IPC advantage does, it lets the CPU compete against something that is clocked 10-20% faster. We already know that Intel cannot get past 4GHz boost with a 4c Ice Lake. What is Intel going to do when it has a CPU with 7x more cores?
We also know that TSMC can clock Epyc higher than 3.4GHz as Threadripper 3970x clocks 3.7GHz base and 4.5GHz boost. The only issue is the TDP goes from 180W on the 7502 to 280W on Threadripper.
Korguz - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
yea ok sure gondalf, keep shilling for intel you have proof of this ?? amd doesnt need high clocks to compete with intel, intel needs the high clocks to compete with amd.Spunjji - Friday, March 13, 2020 - link
Oh, Gondalf. As reliable a source of pure gibberish as ever.You're right that Intel will be "beging" to deliver Ice Lake. Indeed, they'll be pleading, but that won't make it happen.
I know it was a typo, but I couldn't resist. xD
prophet001 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
The core clock king is still Intel.That's all gamers really care about if they're pushing performance.
Skiddywinks - Saturday, March 7, 2020 - link
Not really. They care about single core max performance. In this case Intel are still head of the pack thanks to the significant clock lead, but AMD are ahead in the IPC race. The combination of these is what is important. If AMD can just bring up their clocks with Zen3, they would have the lead. With clocks and IPC gains, they are looking to be the convincing winner once we have seen what both teams have to offer.Spunjji - Friday, March 13, 2020 - link
Only a very, very specific subset of high-refresh-rate gamers. Most of the relevant performance comes from the GPU, and AMD CPUs aren't a bottleneck on that like they used to be. The rest of us care more about overall performance and value for money, and Intel suck on both of those metrics.Gondalf - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
You forgot Ice Lake Ep 10nm+ in the Q4 this year. So on server side the two companies will are neck to neck at the year end. Ice Lake EP looks like a very strong performer from recent leaks.On the consumer side, i fully expect a very limited impact of Zen 3 up to the end of 2021, the end of the 2020 launch will be on paper, without impact on revenue. So basically the landscape will not change, this giving Intel all the time to catch up in consumer.
Smell This - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
** AMD confirmed what we knew - Zen 3 based Milan coming in ‘late 2020’.**___________________________________________
► AMD has delivered, on-time, over the last 5 years
► Chipziller . . . . uhhhh, nope
Gandaft, however, consistently delivers his trolling yucks ...
(and, how is that Cascade Lake working out for you?)
Korguz - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
thats what gondalf does best, posts bias intel crap, and NO proofXyler94 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
People aren't forgetting about Ice Lake, people are just not expecting Ice Lake to be this killer CPU.Like other's have mentioned, AMD built Zen2 to favourably compete against Ice Lake, but now Ice Lake has to go against Zen3, which is going to be better than Zen2.
Time will tell, but just like Zen parts, people won't be buying Ice Lake Xeons en-mass due to the qualification needed for new hardware, and there will be new hardware
HStewart - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Current Ice Lake is not the same as Ice Lake EP that was mention. It is unknown what that would be like but I pretty sure Intel is hard at work at overcoming the issue with 10nm.But the really question for average customers ( gamer's are not average customer ), would you rather lave lower power / longer battery life / portable usage instead higher performance graphics and such that may never be used - how much GPU do you need for spread sheets. Keep in mind that Ice Lake GPU is more powerful than the older 14nm Integrated GPUs
schujj07 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Ice Lake EP is nothing more than the server version of Ice Lake. Just like Sandy Bridge EP is the server version of Sandy Bridge. The micro-architecture is the same, just made for higher core and socket counts.HStewart - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Core count is the big thing that AMD pushes - so it should be significant - keeping in account that max Ice Lake core's is 4 and lower frequency but because of Architecture changes, higher performance than equivalent Intel Mobile CPU'she micro-architecture is same as Ice Lake chips - but much improved on 14nm chips including the recent 10th generation chips.
Korguz - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
and people keep pushing that clock speed is king, and because amd cant reach high clocks, thats why amd doesnt have the performance lead, but, they dont need the high clocks, intel does. think about it hstewart, even with lower clocks, zen 2 is competing very nicely with intel, what would it be like if zen 2 did get to the same clocks that intel does ?????Spunjji - Friday, March 13, 2020 - link
The *average* customer just wants something cheap and easily obtainable.HStewart - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
This is typically on forums, about ignoring this function and instead calling it 14+++++. But keep in mind Intel 10nm is pretty much the same as AMD 7nm and Intel 7nm is same as AMD 5nm.Korguz - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
amd where is intel 10 nm hstewart? practically no where to be found, IN VOLUME !! does 10 nm even have more then 4 cores yet?? come on man, post something to prove your bias towards intel, you jsut as bad as gondalfHStewart - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Mobile market is larges part of market now days - just visit you local bestbuy. Desktop's are far becoming dinosaurs in the computer industry. my last one is actually not even normal pc - but a over 10 year old dual xeon 3ghz core 2 supermicro. Unfortunately the audio chip is not supported by Windows 10 and it sits - Until the i7's came out it was faster than anything out there.Spunjji - Friday, March 13, 2020 - link
I'm always fascinated by how abnormal your computer buying habits are, and how you still think you have insight into what the majority of consumers and/or enthusiasts want.HStewart - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Just go into local Bestbuy, and you should find laptops with i7-1065G7 like Surface Laptop 3 from Microsoft and other HP x360 and others.Xyler94 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Where do I even begin with your statements.First off, AMD knows that Ice Lake for Mobile is not Ice Lake for Servers, just like Intel knows that AMD's Ryzen 4000 APUs are not Epyc Milan.
Secondly, the average user could do everything on an ARM powered device. No one needs an Intel Ice Lake CPU, they need a Processor capable of running Chrome/Firefox, and the odd Facebook game, something any decent ARM CPU can do. And ARM completely wipes the floor with Intel when it comes to efficiency. So you're asking if they'd prefer longer battery life, yes they would, but that means even Intel is gonna lose. And don't go off on the whole "But X86" tangent. The average consumer doesn't even know what the hell that is. All they care about is perceived performance for their web browsing needs.
Now if we then bump to the professional users, those who need to do actual work on their PCs, they need performance before 30 minutes extra of battery life. So Intel or AMD, to them, it doesn't matter, what matters is what laptop will be best for their needs, and/or whatever their company buys them. So at this level, nobody cares about Intel vs AMD, it's all about "Can I get my work done in a timely manner". And news flash, people aren't going with Intel because it's better, people are going with Intel because of the marketing. They know the name Intel, because they saw it in an ad, and they go with it. That's how simple minded the average consumer is.
The naming numbers of the nodes are whacked, yeah. But just because the naming is whacked, doesn't mean that 7nm TSMC is worse than Intel 10nm. We haven't seen Intel 10nm in anything but small, low power parts. Remember that Ice Lake EP is going to need to be vastly bigger than the parts in the laptops, a significant number bigger. Means yields have to finally be good enough, or Intel will suffer.
That's on top of remembering that AMD is not standing still. They're busy with Milan Zen3 cores too. so Ice Lake EP has to go against something that'll be better than Zen2 Rome Cores, which is not an easy task. Can Intel do it? Absolutely. Will it be the be-all end-all you're hoping for? Not a chance.
Xyler94 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Just wanted to add. My new work laptop is an HP Enterprise laptop, with an AMD Ryzen CPU. I'm guessing the reason my company went with this is because it was cheaper, not because of Intel vs AMD. So far, I've had 0 issues with it. I had an Intel laptop before, and that too ran just fine. The literal reason I have an AMD laptop for work, is because it was cheaper.Xyler94 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
I just wanna add one last thing.Intel doesn't give a rat's bottom what you, me or Korguz buy. They don't care if you happen to buy a Dell Laptop, or an HP one, or so-on. They care what Dell Buys, they care what Amazon buys, they care what Microsoft buys, you know... those ordering several thousand units at a time. Intel woke the heck up when people started buying AMD Epyc CPUs, so much in fact that for every % of the server market that AMD captures, they try desperately to claw back.
They don't care about a notebook CPU sale, that's even less money than they make on the Desktop CPUs, they care about the huge server sales, and that hurts them the most.
Korguz - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
" Desktop's are far becoming dinosaurs in the computer industry " maybe in some markets, but no one i know is looking for a notebook, they STILL want a desktop. so please hstewart, you keep saying desktops are dead, but do you have a source for this, or is it just more of your intel bias ? besides, 10 series is low volume, 4 core parts that seem to perform on par or worse then the 14nm products, and could very well perform worse then ryzen 4000, just have to wait to see on that one.haukionkannel - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Pretty much. Only gamers buy desktops. Our company is completely gonna move away desktop. In future we only buy laptops and all of my friends who don`t play Computer games buy laptops...Yep desktop is dead dinosaur. Fortunately I myself did one fossil and am now owner of big full tower pc, with 64Gb ram, several teras storage etc... but I know that I belong to tiny, tiny minority.
Even I have more laptop computers than desktop.
Korguz - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
" Only gamers buy desktops " nope.. a few people i know are replacing their notebooks with desktops cause they need a little more power, to get that power in a notebook, costs a little more then they are willing to spend, the only notebooks where i work, are used by the salesmen that spend most of their time in the field, the rest, are desktops. i guess each area and region are different.Korguz - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Hstewart, just checked my local best buy, and the computer store i would rather go to, and well. local comp store has 5 10xxx series based notebooks listed, 3 are out of stock, 1 model has a total of 6, and the 5th has 11 total in stock. all based on comet lake. NONE based on the 1065g67 cpu. 2 lenovo, and 3 MSI. local best buy only has 2 models based on the 10th gen cpu, and both are based on the 10710 cpu, and, of course, they are dells. and guess what, NONE are based on 10 nm, so i ask again, where is intels 10 nm ????? maybe where you are, they are available, but not here. and looks like 10nm, is also still stuck on 4 cores.Qasar - Tuesday, March 17, 2020 - link
a knew when i saw this post, that Hstewart wouldn't reply. keeps saying how intels 10nm is available and shipping, but, in fact, it is not shipping as well as he believes it to be.Spunjji - Friday, March 13, 2020 - link
"On the consumer side, i fully expect a very limited impact of Zen 3 up to the end of 2021"Based on what, your wet dreams? :D It's one thing to say it won't be out in significant numbers in 2020, but another thing entirely to add another year on for shits and giggles.
ET - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
The 7nm+ comment is interesting. It's hard for me to imagine AMD not using TSMC for Zen 3, and it has no other 'advanced 7nm' process.As for Zen 3 consumer release, my previous speculation was that AMD will release 8-16 cores only, with Zen 2 APUs at 6-8 cores, in 2020. AMD will release Threadripper Zen 3 in 2021, and next gen APU, so that's a clear 2021 release.
The most interesting part here is 'consumer APUs'. I had previously assumed that AMD will, going forward, be releasing new CPUs with prev gen APUs, but if we assume that Zen 4 is a 2022 product, then releasing Zen 3 desktop APUs in late 2021 means that it might not be part of of the next gen lineup. Which may be reasonable, if Zen 3 APUs are DDR4 and Zen 4 is DDR5.
rpg1966 - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
Did you mean pertinent, instead of poignant?Morfidus - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
can see Amd releasing a line up of zen 3 ryzen 5, 7 and 9 products but with limited supply at a premium price at the same time as the epyc line it would make business sense to do that and game a higher margin and then push it hard in 2021 when production is goodpsychobriggsy - Friday, March 6, 2020 - link
I guess something like:Q3/4 2020 - Consumer Zen 3 4000 series (15-18m after Zen 2)
Q4 2020 - Epyc and TR Zen 3 (but mostly available from Q1 2021)
Q2 2021 - Zen 3 APU Mobile (15m after Renoir)
Q3 2021 - Zen 3 APU Desktop
zodiacfml - Saturday, March 7, 2020 - link
Depends on the initial volume they can get with Zen 3. If they can satisfy most of the volume in the high end consumer chips, they'd do it as the movement/change in enterprise is much slower.MirdhaHuda - Monday, March 9, 2020 - link
If any EPYC CPU Motherboard comes with muliple PCIe 4.0 support, so that we can build servers only PCIe 4.0 using multiple drive say, Gigabyte AORUS Nvme Add-in-Card 8TB High Performance Gaming, Advanced Thermal Solution with Copper Heatsink, Toshiba 3D TLC, 5 Year Warranty SSD GP-ASACNE6800TTTDAhttps://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-Performance-Advanc...
We can built ultra fast Database server.
scineram - Thursday, March 12, 2020 - link
What there any mention when the Renoir APUs might come?