Epyc 2 was designed to compete with Ice Lake not Cascade Lake. "Rome was designed to compete favorably with “Ice Lake” Xeons, but it is not going to be competing against that chip. We are incredibly excited, and it is all coming together at one point." - Forrest Norrod.
The delay of Ice Lake made it such that Intel is a generation behind AMD so when Ice Lake Xeon is released it will only catch up to Rome. Not long after Ice Lake is launched AMD will lauch Milan so that is the real comparison Milan/Ice Lake.
It doesn't have to beat it in all cases, just the majority and the ones that matter to customers.
The Xeon line up offers a wide array of models, so I am sure there are specific use cases where they are better suited than Epyc, but in general Epyc seems far superior.
on top of that, the whole R line hurts Intel from a die area perspective and major ASP perspective and nobody actualy comments on all the massive TDP boosts… well done again media sites
If as you suggest Intel was still dominant they wouldn't be slashing prices 50%. AMD's execution is making them viable in the server space and a lot of companies are taking price quotes on Epyc because of that. AMD is progressing in server marketshare about 50% faster than they thought they would.
AMD is still half the price of the Intel Chips even with Intel slashing prices 50% and every Epyc has all the features of the Xeon Platinums. Intel is in a hell of a pickle right now, the AMD chips offer every feature of the Platinum chips (except avx-512 that almost nothing uses) and Intel has this huge stratified xeon structure (look at that list above there has to be more than 30 variants), there selling the same part 15 different ways with various fuses blown while their competitor offers a single line of chips that support everything where you only have to choose core count and maybe frequency.
Intel is still dominant - the 14nm process costs were amortized ALONG time ago - and cutting the prices on what is the last iteration of the Skylake generation - and making way for the new 10nm Ice Lakes and 14nm Copper Lakes later his year.
More that EPYC 3 will be going up against IceLake-SP with much less of a mismatch on core counts - Intel has been coining it on their 28-core designs and now is coining it slightly less, they'll be launching 38-core ICL at $4000 rather than $9000 and I wouldn't be amazed to see a $2000 30-core IceLake-X
First off, when I was building out my Engineering dept and servers - I bought 66 xeon scalable platinum - the 28c which most sites list near $10K - paid less than $7K per - all new, in tray.
So, 66 is a nothing order for someone much larger - so yes, the MSRP is rarely the actual price - and to someone like Dell or Supermicro - much much less.
I've Lake SP can't come soon enough. The latest rumor a quick Google shows is that it should be 38 core parts, and they'll have Cooper lake (14nm) offering 48 core parts. Given that AMD will be near launching Zen 3, I can't imagine they'll have retaken any of their performance leads, but hopefully Ice Lake should at least close the gap for them.
Zen is three years old at this point. If you assume that Intel's leadership took an extra year to realize precisely how behind they were, we're still at least two years out from a true, targeted at Zen competitive response.
Main bifurcation there is that Ice Lake will be upto 38C and in 1 and 2 socket systems, while the Cooper Lakes will 48 and 56C (dual die) in 4 and 8 sockets only.
what is with their numbering scheme? look at 6238, 6240, 6242 - the higher the number the lower the core count, and the price seems to be completely independent of core count or product number.
It's mind-bogglingly daft. It used to be so simple - E3, E5 & E7 for 1, 2, 4+ sockets, it's now more or less meaningless. Why on earth they changed the system is a mystery to me at least.
It's by design. It's meant to be opaque so you need to go through a reseller for recommendations, most of whom will in turn be taking recommendations from the manufacturer... who price based on bulk-buying from Intel.
You aren't the only one confused by their system. Now ask yourself this, based on that number and "color" (ie gold, bronze, etc). Can you deduce what features that CPU has?
Intel painted themselves into a corner with this huge stratified pricing scheme.
@Ryan Smith (or if anyone has a link to a good source), are you able to get a straight answer from Intel regarding their chip shortage? Curious when Cascade Lake-X is actually going to be purchasable.
Cutting prices is all well and good, but you still need to be able to buy the chip.
While pricing adjustments for Cascade Lake are nice, where is Cooper Lake? While Cooper Lake is an AI focused part with BF16 support, I thought it was to launch a new platform and serve as a stop-gap prior to Ice Lake's arrival in the server space. I guess Intel is wanting to focus Cooper Lake square at that segment and only start the platform transition for mainstream servers with just Ice Lake-SP?
Will start shipping shortly - both will be a high volume part - so they have to fill the OEM orders first and once the channel is fed, OEMs will start releasing. SuperMicro already has part numbers (not published on website) for the new sockets and both Ice Lake and Cooper Lake.
So 3rd quarter first systems should start shipping.
Intel is trying to dump their obsolete refuse as fast as possible. Remember when the 9900KS was worse than other chips the day it was released? Intel is about two or three product lines behind.
Final iteration of an outgoing generation... not uncommon .. like when a redesigned Camry is coming in next model year, and the outgoing model is sold at discount at the end of the year...
This goes to show that Intel once high and mighty is now scrambling to respond to competition. In summary, the underestimated any potential competition is paying the price now. The good thing for them is that they have deep pockets to withstand these price cuts to minimize loss of market share. The number of models also show how Intel is milking their customers by creating multiple models with incremental improvement/ features.
for the record, the whole internet shabang for got to mention that it is a paper launch….. expected delivery of the Xeon R line within 2 months is the response when ordering from OEM…. nice try Intel. Another inbetween event to disturb the market. Perhaps the internet shabang can also mentioned that Intel delayed again there next gen Xeon release to October (another paperware???)
3rd quarter - Cooper Lake is being shipped to large OEMs (Dell, HPE, Supermicro, Inspur) as this will be a massive volume part. Ice Lake should start shipping to the OEMs shortly as well.
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ksec - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
This is bad news for AMD. At this rate EPYC 3 will be going up against IceLake-SP.YB1064 - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
AMD can easily hold their own, both on cost and on performance.Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
yeah they can hold that single digit market share, and that's about it.schujj07 - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
Epyc 2 was designed to compete with Ice Lake not Cascade Lake. "Rome was designed to compete favorably with “Ice Lake” Xeons, but it is not going to be competing against that chip. We are incredibly excited, and it is all coming together at one point." - Forrest Norrod.The delay of Ice Lake made it such that Intel is a generation behind AMD so when Ice Lake Xeon is released it will only catch up to Rome. Not long after Ice Lake is launched AMD will lauch Milan so that is the real comparison Milan/Ice Lake.
ksec - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
Yes I know that quote. Except IceLake do gain IPC and EPYC2, as good as its is now, still doesn't beat Intel's Cascade Lake IPC in all circumstances.Irata - Tuesday, February 25, 2020 - link
It doesn't have to beat it in all cases, just the majority and the ones that matter to customers.The Xeon line up offers a wide array of models, so I am sure there are specific use cases where they are better suited than Epyc, but in general Epyc seems far superior.
duploxxx - Tuesday, February 25, 2020 - link
on top of that, the whole R line hurts Intel from a die area perspective and major ASP perspective and nobody actualy comments on all the massive TDP boosts… well done again media sitesDeicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
SO the cases where Intel is chosen 10:1 - got it.rahvin - Tuesday, February 25, 2020 - link
If as you suggest Intel was still dominant they wouldn't be slashing prices 50%. AMD's execution is making them viable in the server space and a lot of companies are taking price quotes on Epyc because of that. AMD is progressing in server marketshare about 50% faster than they thought they would.AMD is still half the price of the Intel Chips even with Intel slashing prices 50% and every Epyc has all the features of the Xeon Platinums. Intel is in a hell of a pickle right now, the AMD chips offer every feature of the Platinum chips (except avx-512 that almost nothing uses) and Intel has this huge stratified xeon structure (look at that list above there has to be more than 30 variants), there selling the same part 15 different ways with various fuses blown while their competitor offers a single line of chips that support everything where you only have to choose core count and maybe frequency.
Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Intel is still dominant - the 14nm process costs were amortized ALONG time ago - and cutting the prices on what is the last iteration of the Skylake generation - and making way for the new 10nm Ice Lakes and 14nm Copper Lakes later his year.TomWomack - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
More that EPYC 3 will be going up against IceLake-SP with much less of a mismatch on core counts - Intel has been coining it on their 28-core designs and now is coining it slightly less, they'll be launching 38-core ICL at $4000 rather than $9000 and I wouldn't be amazed to see a $2000 30-core IceLake-XDeicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
probably closer to the 4K than 9K - with Ice Lake being single and dual sockets, and Cooper Lake being 4 and 8 socket - definite bright line there -I will be looking for Ice Lake with 20-24 cores the = the Xeon Scalable 1st gen I have now.
Irata - Tuesday, February 25, 2020 - link
That is assuming that Intel has not already been selling Xeon at prices far below MSRP to select customers in order to keep sales.Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
First off, when I was building out my Engineering dept and servers - I bought 66 xeon scalable platinum - the 28c which most sites list near $10K - paid less than $7K per - all new, in tray.So, 66 is a nothing order for someone much larger - so yes, the MSRP is rarely the actual price - and to someone like Dell or Supermicro - much much less.
Drumsticks - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
I've Lake SP can't come soon enough. The latest rumor a quick Google shows is that it should be 38 core parts, and they'll have Cooper lake (14nm) offering 48 core parts. Given that AMD will be near launching Zen 3, I can't imagine they'll have retaken any of their performance leads, but hopefully Ice Lake should at least close the gap for them.Zen is three years old at this point. If you assume that Intel's leadership took an extra year to realize precisely how behind they were, we're still at least two years out from a true, targeted at Zen competitive response.
Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Main bifurcation there is that Ice Lake will be upto 38C and in 1 and 2 socket systems, while the Cooper Lakes will 48 and 56C (dual die) in 4 and 8 sockets only.drexnx - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
what is with their numbering scheme? look at 6238, 6240, 6242 - the higher the number the lower the core count, and the price seems to be completely independent of core count or product number.colonelclaw - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
It's mind-bogglingly daft. It used to be so simple - E3, E5 & E7 for 1, 2, 4+ sockets, it's now more or less meaningless. Why on earth they changed the system is a mystery to me at least.Spunjji - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
It's by design. It's meant to be opaque so you need to go through a reseller for recommendations, most of whom will in turn be taking recommendations from the manufacturer... who price based on bulk-buying from Intel.Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Xeon W for single socket2 Socket are Silver and Gold
4 & 8 socket are Platinum
Pretty simple
rahvin - Tuesday, February 25, 2020 - link
You aren't the only one confused by their system. Now ask yourself this, based on that number and "color" (ie gold, bronze, etc). Can you deduce what features that CPU has?Intel painted themselves into a corner with this huge stratified pricing scheme.
Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Nope not at all. Dumb people have problems figuring out the world in general.M O B - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
@Ryan Smith (or if anyone has a link to a good source), are you able to get a straight answer from Intel regarding their chip shortage? Curious when Cascade Lake-X is actually going to be purchasable.Cutting prices is all well and good, but you still need to be able to buy the chip.
Kevin G - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
While pricing adjustments for Cascade Lake are nice, where is Cooper Lake? While Cooper Lake is an AI focused part with BF16 support, I thought it was to launch a new platform and serve as a stop-gap prior to Ice Lake's arrival in the server space. I guess Intel is wanting to focus Cooper Lake square at that segment and only start the platform transition for mainstream servers with just Ice Lake-SP?duploxxx - Tuesday, February 25, 2020 - link
all delayed till end of this year at leastDeicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Will start shipping shortly - both will be a high volume part - so they have to fill the OEM orders first and once the channel is fed, OEMs will start releasing. SuperMicro already has part numbers (not published on website) for the new sockets and both Ice Lake and Cooper Lake.So 3rd quarter first systems should start shipping.
Machinus - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
Intel is trying to dump their obsolete refuse as fast as possible. Remember when the 9900KS was worse than other chips the day it was released? Intel is about two or three product lines behind.Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Final iteration of an outgoing generation... not uncommon .. like when a redesigned Camry is coming in next model year, and the outgoing model is sold at discount at the end of the year...ianisiam - Monday, February 24, 2020 - link
I'm surprised they didn't call it Xeon SP 2nd Gen +.bigvlada - Tuesday, February 25, 2020 - link
Xeon Gold 5222, 4 cores, $1221!!!? Please tell me it's a typo.rahvin - Tuesday, February 25, 2020 - link
You know it's not, the top end "Platinum"s still cost double+ the highest end Rome Part and the Rome part smokes them in about 99% of benchmarks.Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Except sales - the only one that matterswatzupken - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
This goes to show that Intel once high and mighty is now scrambling to respond to competition. In summary, the underestimated any potential competition is paying the price now. The good thing for them is that they have deep pockets to withstand these price cuts to minimize loss of market share.The number of models also show how Intel is milking their customers by creating multiple models with incremental improvement/ features.
Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Final Iteration of an outgoing generation - new sockets new Xeons coming out.mfago - Saturday, February 29, 2020 - link
Typo: it’s 6248R, not 6448R.duploxxx - Thursday, March 5, 2020 - link
for the record, the whole internet shabang for got to mention that it is a paper launch….. expected delivery of the Xeon R line within 2 months is the response when ordering from OEM…. nice try Intel. Another inbetween event to disturb the market. Perhaps the internet shabang can also mentioned that Intel delayed again there next gen Xeon release to October (another paperware???)Deicidium369 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
3rd quarter - Cooper Lake is being shipped to large OEMs (Dell, HPE, Supermicro, Inspur) as this will be a massive volume part. Ice Lake should start shipping to the OEMs shortly as well.