Seems to be good for the OEM market, but what about us people who *actually* care about computers? Front exhuaust has to be the stupidest thing ever. Why was it so hard just to reverse the layout, so it would be atleast somewhat compatable with the current ATX standard.
And the guy/gal who made up the "ATX II" standard, maybe you should contact AMD or someone. They might be interested.
What if I really LIKE my BIG ATX tower?
Maybe I have temperature problems in summer... maybe is not all the efficient that could be but I really love this design and I don't want to move to a small design and I don't want to buy the whole thing again.
Another nice thing with the computers we currently have is the possibility to give our friends/relatives old pieces once we upgrade our computer (my sister's computer is build that way :P )
So, again, another decission based ONLY on money without thinking in what we (the users) want or need. Thanks Intel, I hate you more than ever, and if you 'force us' to move to that technology I hope your business will go bankrupt.
"From the picture we see the flow of air pushed back through the CPU thermal module towards the Northbridge, Southbridge, and VGA card. As this air flows around the CPU, it warms up, as we can see from the red areas to the left and right of the CPU. This warm air then flows over the Northbridge and seems to cool as it travels further back in the chassis. At the left we see the channel of air flowing to the left over the memory and out through the PSU. The channel on the right flows straight back to the VGA card and out through groups of holes in the back of the case."
Well doesn't look like to me that hot air comes out front.
One question im having in my mind is how big of a paintbrush will i need to get inbetween those fins - talk about a dust trap.
At least a majority of atx heatsink designs have easy to clean fins, and boy do they need cleaning sometimes, this is going to be worse.
Cue the repair calls in years to come, $50 an hour for removing wads of the customers cat/dog/children from around the cooler after the safety backoff system renders the machine temporatily gonadless.
Intel can and should make BTX backward and forward compeitable with ATX so we can decide if a new BTX case and PSU is worth the money.
I am a poor student and I already spend money on a good case and PSU. My case should be able to handle more heat than a regular BTX case. I really hope I will not have to get a new case and PSU when I upgrade my computer.
facts? I actually own the silverstone version of the oppus case, so I am actually speaking from experience. Vertical vs horizontal lowprofile vs full height has a lot to do with heat disapation
trikster2: The Opus case was chosen because it was the same volume as the mBTX case. I don't really see how a mATX tower and an mBTX case are going to differ significantly.
I've got to say, this review is bad, even by anandtech standards.
Comparing an mBTX destop to a mATX TOWER to a Fullsize ATX desktop, litteraly comparing apples to oranges to pears, and then coming to sweeping conclusions like "any of us were skeptical for a long time, but after seeing the numbers ... we can conclude that BTX is not hype. " is simply ludicrouse.
Shame on you anand for letting such a review fall through your QC into the hands of the general public.
I'm not sure if you guys are incompetent or payed by intel to find a combo to pimp the BTX standard. I just did a refresh 5 times, no intel adds so it must be the former.
How about spending 49.95 on a decent desktop mATX case and compare apples to apples, instead of just grabbing whatever was laying around the lab (we've seen that whacked oppus case in other reviews haven't we?)?
I have the silverstonetek equivalent of the oppus matx tower. It is the worst mATX cases I have ever worked with. Give us a break and do a valid review, mATX single fan 1/2 height desktop to mBTX single fan 1/2 height desktop.
I see nothing here in the BTX standard that couldn't have been better accomplished with a backwards and forwards compatible ATX II standard.
ATX II compliant motherboards would have standardized locations for the CPU socket, two standard locatations for RAM (either or both locations could be used, as needed), standard locations for the power connectors, standard locations for the most common onboard ports (IDE, SATA, front USB, audio, etc.) and standard component heights (capacitors and etc.).
ATX II compliant cases would have standardized air intake and exhaust locations, fan mounts, and ducting. ATX II cases could be built to open from the right side, with the CPU on the bottom. The ducting would be removeable for use with a legacy ATX mainboard.
ATX II compliant heatsinks would be fanless, designed to be cooled by an ATX II chassis duct, but would have a fan mounting point for use in a legacy ATX chassis. Boxed coolers that come with retail CPU's would include the fan on a standard clip with instructions to remove it when used with an ATX II compliant chassis and mainboard.
ATX II compliant power supplies would basically be the same as the latest ATX supplies are now - 24pin power, 8-pin ATX 12v power, standard 4-pin drive power plugs, SATA power plugs, PCI-E graphics power plug. 24 to 20 pin converters and 8-pin to 4-pin converters would be standard with retail power supplies.
Any mix of ATX and ATX II components would work fine together, but a system built of all ATX II components would gain various cooling, noise level, assembly and operational advantages.
What does BTX offer that my hypothetical ATX II standard doesn't? Oh, yeah... ATX II couldn't give you a face of hot air...
To the guy b4 that was wondering where the air intakes are -- no amount of case fans are going to create a vacum inside your case, there's just not enough pressure -- unless you tape up all the gaps lol.... so the air will just "flow" in from any holes in your case
Bah we're(work) using this motherboard in an application that shall remain anonymous(NOT oridinary PC) and the damn design make wiring a bitch to deal with. And the motherboard isn't all that stable, considering it's from Intel...
BTW that 20.666715 "cfm" is assuming all of the area taken by the 2 fans has air flow, but we should all knoe that the motor and frame ocupy some of that space so the actual "cfm" would be lower.
Why was "lfm" not converted to "cfm" for a direct comparison on page 11?
If I am reading this correctly the BTX provides 40 "cfm" while the ATX requires 150 "lfm". This sounds like BTX is an overwhelming success, untill you do the conversion that is. So what exactly does this 150 "lfm mean in comparison, well if the ATX uses 2-80mm fans that would be 80mm x 80mm = 6400 square mm per fan, 6400 x 2 = 12800 square mm for both fans, convert that to square ft and you get 0.1377781 square ft, take that and multiply by the 150 "lfm" and we get (drum roll) 20.666715 "cfm". Thats right about half what the BTX has.
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but I will give the author the benifit of the doubt and assume it was not.
If I have overlooked something please explain my mistake, if not then I feel some injustice has been done to the readers that did not ask this question.
like someone else said... the BTX form wasn't made for enthusiasts, since we already know how to cool our rigs properly..
BTX is for the average consumer who doesn't know jack about computers, so BTX will help those people have quieter/cooler computers without them reading forums/articles
i'm just wondering how well the transition from ATX machines into BTX will go...
Yes Five40, you can't directly upgrade from 754 to 939, but you can take your case and PSU with you...I'm using the same case I used in my AXP system now for an A64 with watercooling, but if Intel has their way, my next rig won't be able to use the same rig and I'll just have to spend more cash. Hence, we are rightfully pissed because the real question is "Why?" and when something lacks benefits but costs you mad cash: a whole new case and good PSU will set me back 120 bucks, for what? Nothing worth my time.
#50....umm I can't do a A64 to A64 upgrade so what's your point? 754 to 939 does me no good. I just see this as another socket update. A64 might not need it right now, but if all things where just made for what we need right now, we'll move forward at a very slow pace.
Not at all 48#.
The move from AT to ATX, wonderful, nice, a big improvement.
ATX to BTX, err, why?
Well, I do see a need to have this in place with LOW PROFILE cases. Otherwise, the ventilation is terrible. And pBTX looks nice too. BUT, all you are doing is standardizing the design of small case designs, something that those poor OEMs had to do (aww, poor dell doesn't have to design utterly poor cooling solutions, like the ones we have at work, where the case doesn't even have front air intake, and the processor gets cooled from the very air it exhausts, sad). Large cases such as ATX do not need this.
Hmmm, doesn't that L shaped power supply bring back GREAT memories?
Add to it, why didn't video cards get mounted with the cooling on top? That would have helped it a lot with cooling.
For that matter, you people REALLY need to get with the program with InWin cases. Their latest uATX case has a large fan duct for processor fan intake, a large holed opening on the bottom left hand corner for cooling the add in cards, a quiet 90mm fan exhaust and a 120mm fan on the 300w power supply for exhaust.
so the way i see it, its that for a long period of time we will have to standards for each company, BTX for Intel ATX for AMD, so these means for us DIY computers builders the future its limited by what CPU U choose,as for none of the parts for an AMD system would be not interchangeble with an INTEL BTX system, as it is today that both use the same ATX desing, and i mean u would not be able to use the same PS, video card,sound card and any non BTX complyant part, correct me if im wrong if this correct THANKS.
Unless I misread the article, the exhaust is blowing out the front?!? If that's true, then that's really, really, stupid. Every company I've worked for buys dekstop systems, that sit infront of, or to the side, of employess. If BTX is blowing exhaust out the front, then a lot of people are gonna get cranky due to allergies. I know that I personally can't stand a fan blowing air in my face, and hot dusty air is gonna be a million times worse.
"The CPU, Northbridge, Southbridge, and VGA card are all inline which creates a single path for air to flow and in one single direction, from back to front through the thermal module"
...PICTURE...
"From the picture we see the flow of warm air pulled forward from beyond the VGA card. As it moves towards the front of the case the air flows over the Southbridge and Northbridge passively cooling each chip. "
Which says: "The redesign of the board layout was done in order to improve airflow through the system; moving the CPU to the "front" of the case allows it to be right next to the intake fan, giving it the coolest air out of any component in the system. You will then notice that the chipset is directly in line with the CPU, allowing airflow over the CPU's heatsink to be channeled over those heatsinks as well before exiting the case."
These two articles directly contradict of each other. I think the latter is correct. Please post a correction, thank you.
OK, so after all that, I have only one question. Why in the name of $DIETY are they venting out the front of the case? Do they want the dust bunnies to have a home? Why not flip the components around and (with a little coercion towards the graphics card manufacturers) vent all the hot air out the back?
Also, to those that think AMD is immune to the heat problems: Power consumption (and dissipation) has gone nowhere but up in computers. Heck, ten years ago CPU's didn't have a heatsink, much less one with a fan. With increased heat has come to be expected more noise. I personally think BTX is a stumble in the right direction towards reducing the noise while dealing with the heat output of modern and future micorprocessors.
Yeah 48, what about the guy who's pissed cuz he can't do a P4 to P4 upgrade because the damn thing is now obsolete for the mobo AND Case/PSU? And all the HP/Compaq old school jokes are true; this looks exactly the same, and will have all the same problems.
The issue isn't so much that we hate Intel, it's that they are a) forcing this on us and b) it has little tangible benefits to necessitate the cost and some of c) AMD chips may not be able to use the standard, but have no need for it anyway. Mostly, we're all tired of Intel moving the industry around wherever and whenever it wants to make up for its own downfalls.
No one needs it but Intel. It doesn't take a "fanboy" to see that. AMD does NOT have the heat issues that Intel does. That's just a fact. There are some here that hate Intel but some do not. I will only buy what gives me the most bang for my buck. Intel does not provide this at the moment. So I will continue to buy AMD unless that changes. There are others here with the same mentality. No hating involved.
I'm not a fan boy of intel or amd but so much blatant dislike of intel is sad. It seems that if AMD came up with this standard you guys would be saying how amazing it is and that you want it ASAP. Since it's Intel, no one "needs" it.
Actually, I like how they moved the processor towards the front of the case. This way the processor isn't in the path of hot air rising from the video card.
Also, having the video card flipped over means that high performance heat sinks on the video card won't block a PCI/PCI Express slot.
Your right, I would have sworn that I saw that mess inside of a Packard-Bell. At least they have not yet started using custom fasteners that you need a special tool to replace or upgrade components. (?)
BTX may deliver overall cooler temperature per volume of space, but what about all the hot air that was used to cool the CPU? Wouldn't the hot exhaust cook the video card and bridge controller, limiting overclocking potentials? Temperature aside, having air intake in front of the case reduces usable drive spaces that would be used for fan controllers. If I were designing BTX, I would put CPU on top corner, and a curved 'casing' that would route exhaust to top blowhole.
#42: Actually it us just these micrBTX cases that do not have rear exhausts...so far. We may see case manufacturers employing case fans as soon as BTX becomes a mainstream form factor.
At Computex this past year, we did see some companies like Enlight (http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?... show off some mid tower cases which did have room to add extra case fans. We still have a lot to look forward to concerning the new form factor.
Man those P4's sure do run hot. 63C WITH the BTX case. My A64 runs at 36C inside the ancient ATX case. I'm still running the OEM CPU cooler and oh about 6 case fans. :-)
Looks like BTX is going to work out for Dell and HP... but I dont think its going to have much effect for the enthusiast and self built markets. Seems to me that its going to be at its best in mBTX situations, but full BTX seems ho-hum. I guess its just more crap i gotta buy next time i upgrade. BTX mobo, BTX case, DDR2, SATA HD, PCI-Ex video card, new CPU... they really havent left anything for me to KEEP during a P4 to P4 upgrade. Me no likey.
I don't see what the problem is with BTX cases. The design layout, atleast for Intel processors makes a lot of sense as far as thermal regulation goes. Channeled airflow on ATX cases is a niche market, and the fact that there are no standards means that you can't be assured of compatibilty across motherboard solutions. You really don't want to have spent money on a new mobo and case only to find that a lousy capacitor prevents you from using channeled airflow. Also, there's no reason why a manufacturer can't place additional fans in a BTX case to cool the case further. Remember, cases are not upgraded as regularly as the actual hardware, so one always has the option of moving to BTX at one's lesuire. I dunno about you guys, but I live in a college dorm, and the smaller my case footprint is, the happier I am, especially if it's a full form-factor case.
We've been getting in new HP 7100s here at my work center and they've been in the micro-BTX format. I don't any major problems with it so far. Pic below.
#36 - Thanks Purav.
Can you tell me - is the PS blowing in or out, and is the CPU fan blowing in or out? I'm still trying to figure where all the air is comming from.
#34: If you look at the picture of the backside of the B300 on page 8 there are groups of holes above the VGA expansion slot as well as to the right between the expansion slot and the power supply. There are also holes lining the bottom of the case if you look closely. We were surprised ourselves to find how well passively cooling all of the components in a system would actually work. And from the pictures you can also see there aren't too many holes for a large amount of air to come in through!
#25: Actually, the front panel connectors *are* standardized and combined into one single plug. We mentioned this on page 8 of the article, "First Look: AOpen B300 BTX case cont'd", in the paragraph where we talk about the auxiliary module.
#28 - I don't understand the air flow.
If the CPU fan is blowing out the front of the case, then the PS _must_ be blowing in.
Blowing hot air into a case does not sound good. Is that how it works?
If the PS is also blowing out, then you have a vacuum. I do not see any heat comming into the case from the PS, so it must be blowing out...?!
Where is the air comming from that is cooling the graphics card? It looks like mostly dead air in that corner - there are only tiny grills on the back.
Space is not evil!, its a good thing for when your drop a small screw, or have hands that fit your 6'6" frame. And loudness can be adressed in other just as succesfull ways.
"Don't forget that additional non-redundant fans increase the failure rate of a computer as well - more moving parts."
And what if the single fan on the BTX sollution fails? That is really non-reduntant if you ask me, anyone agree?
#20, I agree, I have a Packard Bell P1 133MHz flat desktop case PC in my workshop and that is almost exactly the same design as this, except the stuff like the optical drive, hard drives and power supply was swapped from the right to the left side of the case, othewise its exactly the same. Glad to see some oldschool designs again, lol
#27's idea is brilliant, they quickly implemented something like that with the cases and their front USB options, those LED and power button connector have been around much longer. What's taking them so long?
This is going nowhere quick. It's obvious Intel will no longer need it when they make the Dothan desktop transition plus AMD all case and PS manufactures hate the idea. Just wahtever you do don't go buying an $300 Lian Li and $120 PSU since BTX is a flash in the pants.
From here I should think: ">From the picture we see the flow of warm air pulled forward from beyond the VGA card. As it moves towards the front of the case the air flows over the Southbridge and Northbridge passively cooling each chip. We then see from the shades of red the air warms up as it flows through the CPU heatsink then begins to cool as it moves out the front of the case."
Let's see, a new form factor with new case requirements and STILL no standardized connector for the front Power/Reset/LED's/etc.? I'm all for cooler cases, but a standardized connector for those items is something that should have been implemented years ago.
I heard a rumor that it wont work with Athlon 64 chips or any type of chip that has the memory controller integrated with the processor, because the distance between the processor and the RAM banks are too far. Anyone confirm this?
While I agree that the tweaky enthusiast market doesn't have much to gain at the moment by moving from ATX to BTX, especially as most of them are running A64s or praying-for-death overclocked mobile Athlons, I think there is certainly something to be said for the form-factor. It does seem to be more efficient for cooling than your average ATX(especially for small cases). Even if you are running some PentiumM or a derivative thereof, more efficient is still better. After all, if a given case design can cool a high-end Prescott without deafening its user, it can probably cool a brutally overclocked Pentium M with its fans running at half the speed. For that matter, if the trace length issues aren't actually crippling, I would like to see some A64 motherboards in this format.
Visualize an office full of MicroBTX Desktop computers. Visualize the women in the office cupping their hands around the heat exhaust... visualize the overclocking tips flowing around the female staff as they strive to increase heat output... visualize the men pouring sweat, desparately trying to duct-tape the front vent to block the hot Intel Air.
I'm sorry, but any spec that seeks to exhaust hot air out the FRONT of any case, whether it be a desktop, tower or SFF, is just plain STUPID.
I wonder if all those temperature measurements were done with the case open? I would think a case designed for efficient air flow would only perform properly (as designed) when fully assembled!!!
Instead of spending all the money to research BTX, Intel should have just made watercooling standard on the Prescott CPU. Apple could have said they stole the idea from them like everything else ;)
It looks like Intel needs all the cooling it can get. I found an interesting article at Toms Hardware and here;s the closer about its heat problem "So, should a vendor release a product that is only able to run at its maximum performance under special circumstances? The fastest processors certainly are very exclusive devices, but that should not cause more troubles than necessary. The customer wants products that simply work! Think about that before releasing faster products, Intel." All I can say is wow, because I can remember my P3 866 didn't need all that cooling though now I moved on to AMD.
To have the powersupply and drive bays at the bottom is a good thing. It will keep the temperature more balanced inside the case and also provide more room at the top for cards and for exhaust fans, rather than craming everything up there.
If a retail board showed up to a review with that horrible a component layout, it would be figuratively flogged.
I find that the review was somewhat flawed since it failed to see what would happen with a discrete graphics card in the box. If one was used, I didn't spot it in the screenshot of the full ATX or uBTX screeshots, and it wasn't mentioned in the text.
Finally it should be mentioned that many people have theorized that the BTX layout would not work well for the Athlon64's onboard memory controller because of issues with trace layout. I'm no expert, but it does look like it might get a little tight.
To me, BTX looks like a winner for only one niche: small form factor business desktops. By that definition, I don't include Shuttle's wonderful SFF PC's which work best for home and HTPC enthusiasts. The microBTX form factor looks great for an office environment where quiet operation is a real plus, as well as power consumption, and since business PC's don't need to be cutting-edge, middle-end processors can be used that don't generate a lot of heat.
Tor the enthusiast however, BTX looks like a bust to me, more of an attempt by Intel to throw the market out of whack, specifically AMD's market. Enthusiasts already have case designs meant to exhaust a lot of air and keep systems cool. Many enthusiasts LIKE a little bit larger case so that they have more expansion room, with the exception of their HTPC, and so that they can house a decent power supply for that expansion.
I see HP, Compaq, IBM, and other mainstream business computing giants adopting BTX; it will probably do well in the business market as well as in mass retail, where OEMs would rather make a system with less fans to fail and at cheaper cost. That's a pretty big sector for profit of course, but this form factor, IMO, leaves PC enthusiasts out in the cold.
BTX is obviously NOT a great design. Intel changes sockets, Mobo and other specs periodically to FORCE people to update to their latest crap. Don't expect a rush to BTX. It's another Intel spec unlikely to ever gain foothold...
For those who don't already know you can do wonders for ATX case cooling with "managed airflow". By actually directing incoming cool air to the heat sources and isolating the CPU fan from warm air in the case, no one really needs a BTX case and your PC will run much cooler with managed airflow.
While Intel definitely needs a tornado inside a box to cool their defective 90 nano CPUs, the BTX standard is just another Intel marketing scam for all practical purposes.
God looking at those small cases makes me tremble and remember my parent's old IBM Pentium I system where you had to remove the PSU and the CD drive to install the RAM. I was so glad when I saw computers moving AWAY from this type of design...forget footprint, I want a case I can actually work in.
Either way, congrats to Intel on making a new Delleron case, but I'm simply not interested. Great for OEM's but useless for me, just like most of Intel's products...
As for #3's question, why does Intel need it outside of helping their OEM buddies? Dual core is only going to make Prescott's heat issues stand out further and their x20/30/40's on the roadmap still are clocked in the range where they are going to be high heat output. All that heat has to go somewhere...
will intel even need btx anymore? since they are probably going to be dumping the p4 in favor of the pM(eventually)?
i thought one of the main reasons why btx was designed was to better handle the hotter p4 processors and to cool them more efficiently?
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
77 Comments
Back to Article
L3p3rM355i4h - Thursday, February 10, 2005 - link
Seems to be good for the OEM market, but what about us people who *actually* care about computers? Front exhuaust has to be the stupidest thing ever. Why was it so hard just to reverse the layout, so it would be atleast somewhat compatable with the current ATX standard.And the guy/gal who made up the "ATX II" standard, maybe you should contact AMD or someone. They might be interested.
EthernaL - Friday, May 19, 2006 - link
What if I really LIKE my BIG ATX tower?Maybe I have temperature problems in summer... maybe is not all the efficient that could be but I really love this design and I don't want to move to a small design and I don't want to buy the whole thing again.
Another nice thing with the computers we currently have is the possibility to give our friends/relatives old pieces once we upgrade our computer (my sister's computer is build that way :P )
So, again, another decission based ONLY on money without thinking in what we (the users) want or need. Thanks Intel, I hate you more than ever, and if you 'force us' to move to that technology I hope your business will go bankrupt.
IntelUser2000 - Sunday, November 21, 2004 - link
"From the picture we see the flow of air pushed back through the CPU thermal module towards the Northbridge, Southbridge, and VGA card. As this air flows around the CPU, it warms up, as we can see from the red areas to the left and right of the CPU. This warm air then flows over the Northbridge and seems to cool as it travels further back in the chassis. At the left we see the channel of air flowing to the left over the memory and out through the PSU. The channel on the right flows straight back to the VGA card and out through groups of holes in the back of the case."Well doesn't look like to me that hot air comes out front.
MadAd - Friday, November 19, 2004 - link
One question im having in my mind is how big of a paintbrush will i need to get inbetween those fins - talk about a dust trap.At least a majority of atx heatsink designs have easy to clean fins, and boy do they need cleaning sometimes, this is going to be worse.
Cue the repair calls in years to come, $50 an hour for removing wads of the customers cat/dog/children from around the cooler after the safety backoff system renders the machine temporatily gonadless.
epiv - Thursday, November 18, 2004 - link
Intel can and should make BTX backward and forward compeitable with ATX so we can decide if a new BTX case and PSU is worth the money.I am a poor student and I already spend money on a good case and PSU. My case should be able to handle more heat than a regular BTX case. I really hope I will not have to get a new case and PSU when I upgrade my computer.
trikster2 - Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - link
facts? I actually own the silverstone version of the oppus case, so I am actually speaking from experience. Vertical vs horizontal lowprofile vs full height has a lot to do with heat disapation
Myrandex - Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - link
I wonder how BTX had a NDA because Gateway has been selling BTX computers at best buy for over a month at leastCygni - Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - link
Dont you bring facts into this, Kris! Trikster2 doesnt want any of that!KristopherKubicki - Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - link
trikster2: The Opus case was chosen because it was the same volume as the mBTX case. I don't really see how a mATX tower and an mBTX case are going to differ significantly.Kristopher
ceefka - Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - link
How can this possibly translate into lower cost for end users? Thank you, Intel.I am also disappointed by Intel's approach. Uhm, we have a hot CPU; let's make a cooler case!
Since they invented this in their own backyard without creating a wide support it looks like an ego-trip.
trikster2 - Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - link
I've got to say, this review is bad, even by anandtech standards.
Comparing an mBTX destop to a mATX TOWER to a Fullsize ATX desktop, litteraly comparing apples to oranges to pears, and then coming to sweeping conclusions like "any of us were skeptical for a long time, but after seeing the numbers ... we can conclude that BTX is not hype. " is simply ludicrouse.
Shame on you anand for letting such a review fall through your QC into the hands of the general public.
I'm not sure if you guys are incompetent or payed by intel to find a combo to pimp the BTX standard. I just did a refresh 5 times, no intel adds so it must be the former.
How about spending 49.95 on a decent desktop mATX case and compare apples to apples, instead of just grabbing whatever was laying around the lab (we've seen that whacked oppus case in other reviews haven't we?)?
I have the silverstonetek equivalent of the oppus matx tower. It is the worst mATX cases I have ever worked with. Give us a break and do a valid review, mATX single fan 1/2 height desktop to mBTX single fan 1/2 height desktop.
johnsonx - Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - link
I see nothing here in the BTX standard that couldn't have been better accomplished with a backwards and forwards compatible ATX II standard.ATX II compliant motherboards would have standardized locations for the CPU socket, two standard locatations for RAM (either or both locations could be used, as needed), standard locations for the power connectors, standard locations for the most common onboard ports (IDE, SATA, front USB, audio, etc.) and standard component heights (capacitors and etc.).
ATX II compliant cases would have standardized air intake and exhaust locations, fan mounts, and ducting. ATX II cases could be built to open from the right side, with the CPU on the bottom. The ducting would be removeable for use with a legacy ATX mainboard.
ATX II compliant heatsinks would be fanless, designed to be cooled by an ATX II chassis duct, but would have a fan mounting point for use in a legacy ATX chassis. Boxed coolers that come with retail CPU's would include the fan on a standard clip with instructions to remove it when used with an ATX II compliant chassis and mainboard.
ATX II compliant power supplies would basically be the same as the latest ATX supplies are now - 24pin power, 8-pin ATX 12v power, standard 4-pin drive power plugs, SATA power plugs, PCI-E graphics power plug. 24 to 20 pin converters and 8-pin to 4-pin converters would be standard with retail power supplies.
Any mix of ATX and ATX II components would work fine together, but a system built of all ATX II components would gain various cooling, noise level, assembly and operational advantages.
What does BTX offer that my hypothetical ATX II standard doesn't? Oh, yeah... ATX II couldn't give you a face of hot air...
xsilver - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
To the guy b4 that was wondering where the air intakes are -- no amount of case fans are going to create a vacum inside your case, there's just not enough pressure -- unless you tape up all the gaps lol.... so the air will just "flow" in from any holes in your caseblackmetalegg - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Bah we're(work) using this motherboard in an application that shall remain anonymous(NOT oridinary PC) and the damn design make wiring a bitch to deal with. And the motherboard isn't all that stable, considering it's from Intel...justly - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
BTW that 20.666715 "cfm" is assuming all of the area taken by the 2 fans has air flow, but we should all knoe that the motor and frame ocupy some of that space so the actual "cfm" would be lower.justly - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Why was "lfm" not converted to "cfm" for a direct comparison on page 11?If I am reading this correctly the BTX provides 40 "cfm" while the ATX requires 150 "lfm". This sounds like BTX is an overwhelming success, untill you do the conversion that is. So what exactly does this 150 "lfm mean in comparison, well if the ATX uses 2-80mm fans that would be 80mm x 80mm = 6400 square mm per fan, 6400 x 2 = 12800 square mm for both fans, convert that to square ft and you get 0.1377781 square ft, take that and multiply by the 150 "lfm" and we get (drum roll) 20.666715 "cfm". Thats right about half what the BTX has.
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but I will give the author the benifit of the doubt and assume it was not.
If I have overlooked something please explain my mistake, if not then I feel some injustice has been done to the readers that did not ask this question.
ShadowVlican - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
like someone else said... the BTX form wasn't made for enthusiasts, since we already know how to cool our rigs properly..BTX is for the average consumer who doesn't know jack about computers, so BTX will help those people have quieter/cooler computers without them reading forums/articles
i'm just wondering how well the transition from ATX machines into BTX will go...
ZobarStyl - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Yes Five40, you can't directly upgrade from 754 to 939, but you can take your case and PSU with you...I'm using the same case I used in my AXP system now for an A64 with watercooling, but if Intel has their way, my next rig won't be able to use the same rig and I'll just have to spend more cash. Hence, we are rightfully pissed because the real question is "Why?" and when something lacks benefits but costs you mad cash: a whole new case and good PSU will set me back 120 bucks, for what? Nothing worth my time.MAValpha - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Anyone know how pBTX stacks up against FlexATX?five40 - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#50....umm I can't do a A64 to A64 upgrade so what's your point? 754 to 939 does me no good. I just see this as another socket update. A64 might not need it right now, but if all things where just made for what we need right now, we'll move forward at a very slow pace.sprockkets - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Not at all 48#.The move from AT to ATX, wonderful, nice, a big improvement.
ATX to BTX, err, why?
Well, I do see a need to have this in place with LOW PROFILE cases. Otherwise, the ventilation is terrible. And pBTX looks nice too. BUT, all you are doing is standardizing the design of small case designs, something that those poor OEMs had to do (aww, poor dell doesn't have to design utterly poor cooling solutions, like the ones we have at work, where the case doesn't even have front air intake, and the processor gets cooled from the very air it exhausts, sad). Large cases such as ATX do not need this.
Hmmm, doesn't that L shaped power supply bring back GREAT memories?
Add to it, why didn't video cards get mounted with the cooling on top? That would have helped it a lot with cooling.
For that matter, you people REALLY need to get with the program with InWin cases. Their latest uATX case has a large fan duct for processor fan intake, a large holed opening on the bottom left hand corner for cooling the add in cards, a quiet 90mm fan exhaust and a 120mm fan on the 300w power supply for exhaust.
Bozo Galora - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Intel quicksand gets deeperDS Delaroca - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
so the way i see it, its that for a long period of time we will have to standards for each company, BTX for Intel ATX for AMD, so these means for us DIY computers builders the future its limited by what CPU U choose,as for none of the parts for an AMD system would be not interchangeble with an INTEL BTX system, as it is today that both use the same ATX desing, and i mean u would not be able to use the same PS, video card,sound card and any non BTX complyant part, correct me if im wrong if this correct THANKS.pjarvi - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Unless I misread the article, the exhaust is blowing out the front?!? If that's true, then that's really, really, stupid. Every company I've worked for buys dekstop systems, that sit infront of, or to the side, of employess. If BTX is blowing exhaust out the front, then a lot of people are gonna get cranky due to allergies. I know that I personally can't stand a fan blowing air in my face, and hot dusty air is gonna be a million times worse.Nonsense - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
The airflow described on page 6 is inconsistent:"The CPU, Northbridge, Southbridge, and VGA card are all inline which creates a single path for air to flow and in one single direction, from back to front through the thermal module"
...PICTURE...
"From the picture we see the flow of warm air pulled forward from beyond the VGA card. As it moves towards the front of the case the air flows over the Southbridge and Northbridge passively cooling each chip. "
Now look follow the link at the top of that page: "heat paths in a BTX system" which goes to: http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?...
Which says: "The redesign of the board layout was done in order to improve airflow through the system; moving the CPU to the "front" of the case allows it to be right next to the intake fan, giving it the coolest air out of any component in the system. You will then notice that the chipset is directly in line with the CPU, allowing airflow over the CPU's heatsink to be channeled over those heatsinks as well before exiting the case."
These two articles directly contradict of each other. I think the latter is correct. Please post a correction, thank you.
PsharkJF - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Fat fingers for ATX ;]Chuckles - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
OK, so after all that, I have only one question. Why in the name of $DIETY are they venting out the front of the case? Do they want the dust bunnies to have a home? Why not flip the components around and (with a little coercion towards the graphics card manufacturers) vent all the hot air out the back?Also, to those that think AMD is immune to the heat problems: Power consumption (and dissipation) has gone nowhere but up in computers. Heck, ten years ago CPU's didn't have a heatsink, much less one with a fan. With increased heat has come to be expected more noise. I personally think BTX is a stumble in the right direction towards reducing the noise while dealing with the heat output of modern and future micorprocessors.
ZobarStyl - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Yeah 48, what about the guy who's pissed cuz he can't do a P4 to P4 upgrade because the damn thing is now obsolete for the mobo AND Case/PSU? And all the HP/Compaq old school jokes are true; this looks exactly the same, and will have all the same problems.The issue isn't so much that we hate Intel, it's that they are a) forcing this on us and b) it has little tangible benefits to necessitate the cost and some of c) AMD chips may not be able to use the standard, but have no need for it anyway. Mostly, we're all tired of Intel moving the industry around wherever and whenever it wants to make up for its own downfalls.
bob661 - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#48No one needs it but Intel. It doesn't take a "fanboy" to see that. AMD does NOT have the heat issues that Intel does. That's just a fact. There are some here that hate Intel but some do not. I will only buy what gives me the most bang for my buck. Intel does not provide this at the moment. So I will continue to buy AMD unless that changes. There are others here with the same mentality. No hating involved.
five40 - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
I'm not a fan boy of intel or amd but so much blatant dislike of intel is sad. It seems that if AMD came up with this standard you guys would be saying how amazing it is and that you want it ASAP. Since it's Intel, no one "needs" it.stephenbrooks - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Do you think if you connect the power to the fans the other way around you can get air to flow in from the front and come out of the back instead?SolarWind - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Actually, I like how they moved the processor towards the front of the case. This way the processor isn't in the path of hot air rising from the video card.Also, having the video card flipped over means that high performance heat sinks on the video card won't block a PCI/PCI Express slot.
DeeTees - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Your right, I would have sworn that I saw that mess inside of a Packard-Bell. At least they have not yet started using custom fasteners that you need a special tool to replace or upgrade components. (?)quanta - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
BTX may deliver overall cooler temperature per volume of space, but what about all the hot air that was used to cool the CPU? Wouldn't the hot exhaust cook the video card and bridge controller, limiting overclocking potentials? Temperature aside, having air intake in front of the case reduces usable drive spaces that would be used for fan controllers. If I were designing BTX, I would put CPU on top corner, and a curved 'casing' that would route exhaust to top blowhole.PuravSanghani - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#42: Actually it us just these micrBTX cases that do not have rear exhausts...so far. We may see case manufacturers employing case fans as soon as BTX becomes a mainstream form factor.At Computex this past year, we did see some companies like Enlight (http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?... show off some mid tower cases which did have room to add extra case fans. We still have a lot to look forward to concerning the new form factor.
skunkbuster - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
it would have been nice to have a rear exhaust...bob661 - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Man those P4's sure do run hot. 63C WITH the BTX case. My A64 runs at 36C inside the ancient ATX case. I'm still running the OEM CPU cooler and oh about 6 case fans. :-)Cygni - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Looks like BTX is going to work out for Dell and HP... but I dont think its going to have much effect for the enthusiast and self built markets. Seems to me that its going to be at its best in mBTX situations, but full BTX seems ho-hum. I guess its just more crap i gotta buy next time i upgrade. BTX mobo, BTX case, DDR2, SATA HD, PCI-Ex video card, new CPU... they really havent left anything for me to KEEP during a P4 to P4 upgrade. Me no likey.vedin - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Where am I supposed to put a window and neon light in that case? Hmm?Spinne - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
I don't see what the problem is with BTX cases. The design layout, atleast for Intel processors makes a lot of sense as far as thermal regulation goes. Channeled airflow on ATX cases is a niche market, and the fact that there are no standards means that you can't be assured of compatibilty across motherboard solutions. You really don't want to have spent money on a new mobo and case only to find that a lousy capacitor prevents you from using channeled airflow. Also, there's no reason why a manufacturer can't place additional fans in a BTX case to cool the case further. Remember, cases are not upgraded as regularly as the actual hardware, so one always has the option of moving to BTX at one's lesuire. I dunno about you guys, but I live in a college dorm, and the smaller my case footprint is, the happier I am, especially if it's a full form-factor case.ThelvynD - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
We've been getting in new HP 7100s here at my work center and they've been in the micro-BTX format. I don't any major problems with it so far. Pic below.http://www.picsplace.to/044712/HP-BTX.JPG
Nonsense - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#36 - Thanks Purav.Can you tell me - is the PS blowing in or out, and is the CPU fan blowing in or out? I'm still trying to figure where all the air is comming from.
PuravSanghani - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#34: If you look at the picture of the backside of the B300 on page 8 there are groups of holes above the VGA expansion slot as well as to the right between the expansion slot and the power supply. There are also holes lining the bottom of the case if you look closely. We were surprised ourselves to find how well passively cooling all of the components in a system would actually work. And from the pictures you can also see there aren't too many holes for a large amount of air to come in through!PuravSanghani - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#25: Actually, the front panel connectors *are* standardized and combined into one single plug. We mentioned this on page 8 of the article, "First Look: AOpen B300 BTX case cont'd", in the paragraph where we talk about the auxiliary module.Nonsense - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#28 - I don't understand the air flow.If the CPU fan is blowing out the front of the case, then the PS _must_ be blowing in.
Blowing hot air into a case does not sound good. Is that how it works?
If the PS is also blowing out, then you have a vacuum. I do not see any heat comming into the case from the PS, so it must be blowing out...?!
Where is the air comming from that is cooling the graphics card? It looks like mostly dead air in that corner - there are only tiny grills on the back.
Sunbird - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
From last paragraph of article:"The ATX case used more space and ran louder."
Space is not evil!, its a good thing for when your drop a small screw, or have hands that fit your 6'6" frame. And loudness can be adressed in other just as succesfull ways.
"Don't forget that additional non-redundant fans increase the failure rate of a computer as well - more moving parts."
And what if the single fan on the BTX sollution fails? That is really non-reduntant if you ask me, anyone agree?
Sunbird - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#20, I agree, I have a Packard Bell P1 133MHz flat desktop case PC in my workshop and that is almost exactly the same design as this, except the stuff like the optical drive, hard drives and power supply was swapped from the right to the left side of the case, othewise its exactly the same. Glad to see some oldschool designs again, lol#27's idea is brilliant, they quickly implemented something like that with the cases and their front USB options, those LED and power button connector have been around much longer. What's taking them so long?
epiv - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
skunkbuster - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
flash in the pants?Zebo - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
This is going nowhere quick. It's obvious Intel will no longer need it when they make the Dothan desktop transition plus AMD all case and PS manufactures hate the idea. Just wahtever you do don't go buying an $300 Lian Li and $120 PSU since BTX is a flash in the pants.DerekBaker - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#25From here I should think: ">From the picture we see the flow of warm air pulled forward from beyond the VGA card. As it moves towards the front of the case the air flows over the Southbridge and Northbridge passively cooling each chip. We then see from the shades of red the air warms up as it flows through the CPU heatsink then begins to cool as it moves out the front of the case."
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?...
Derek
Oxonium - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Let's see, a new form factor with new case requirements and STILL no standardized connector for the front Power/Reset/LED's/etc.? I'm all for cooler cases, but a standardized connector for those items is something that should have been implemented years ago.HardwareD00d - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#24, who cares since athlons run much cooler and don't need this case form factor.Doormat - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
I heard a rumor that it wont work with Athlon 64 chips or any type of chip that has the memory controller integrated with the processor, because the distance between the processor and the RAM banks are too far. Anyone confirm this?Superbike - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Wow AT is back.phisrow - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
While I agree that the tweaky enthusiast market doesn't have much to gain at the moment by moving from ATX to BTX, especially as most of them are running A64s or praying-for-death overclocked mobile Athlons, I think there is certainly something to be said for the form-factor. It does seem to be more efficient for cooling than your average ATX(especially for small cases). Even if you are running some PentiumM or a derivative thereof, more efficient is still better. After all, if a given case design can cool a high-end Prescott without deafening its user, it can probably cool a brutally overclocked Pentium M with its fans running at half the speed. For that matter, if the trace length issues aren't actually crippling, I would like to see some A64 motherboards in this format.johnsonx - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Visualize an office full of MicroBTX Desktop computers. Visualize the women in the office cupping their hands around the heat exhaust... visualize the overclocking tips flowing around the female staff as they strive to increase heat output... visualize the men pouring sweat, desparately trying to duct-tape the front vent to block the hot Intel Air.I'm sorry, but any spec that seeks to exhaust hot air out the FRONT of any case, whether it be a desktop, tower or SFF, is just plain STUPID.
araczynski - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
my god, after all these years, they fall back on the packard bell mentality...KristopherKubicki - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
GTMan: Temperatures were certainly taken with the cases closed.Kristopher
GTMan - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
I wonder if all those temperature measurements were done with the case open? I would think a case designed for efficient air flow would only perform properly (as designed) when fully assembled!!!HardwareD00d - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Instead of spending all the money to research BTX, Intel should have just made watercooling standard on the Prescott CPU. Apple could have said they stole the idea from them like everything else ;)Omega215D - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
It looks like Intel needs all the cooling it can get. I found an interesting article at Toms Hardware and here;s the closer about its heat problem "So, should a vendor release a product that is only able to run at its maximum performance under special circumstances? The fastest processors certainly are very exclusive devices, but that should not cause more troubles than necessary. The customer wants products that simply work! Think about that before releasing faster products, Intel." All I can say is wow, because I can remember my P3 866 didn't need all that cooling though now I moved on to AMD.HardwareD00d - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
It sounds like you can essentially get the same thermal performance from an ATX case by adding 1 additional case fan.At least Intel has decided not to push this new form factor down peoples throats. Honestly, that's what I figured they'd try to do.
Gatak - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
To have the powersupply and drive bays at the bottom is a good thing. It will keep the temperature more balanced inside the case and also provide more room at the top for cards and for exhaust fans, rather than craming everything up there.Pythias - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
ROFL #6!!Ecmaster76 - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
If a retail board showed up to a review with that horrible a component layout, it would be figuratively flogged.I find that the review was somewhat flawed since it failed to see what would happen with a discrete graphics card in the box. If one was used, I didn't spot it in the screenshot of the full ATX or uBTX screeshots, and it wasn't mentioned in the text.
Finally it should be mentioned that many people have theorized that the BTX layout would not work well for the Athlon64's onboard memory controller because of issues with trace layout. I'm no expert, but it does look like it might get a little tight.
ksherman - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
"Anand's *vacation* work trip to Taipei..."Probably one of the funniest things i have read in one of your reviews.... ;)
raskren - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
As always, so much Intel backlash, simply because, its Intel.This is how cases should have been done originally. Align all the hot components and put a fan in front and behind them. Makes sense, right?
Current ATX design is "put a fan on every hot item you have". At least that's how my case is.
LoneWolf15 - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
To me, BTX looks like a winner for only one niche: small form factor business desktops. By that definition, I don't include Shuttle's wonderful SFF PC's which work best for home and HTPC enthusiasts. The microBTX form factor looks great for an office environment where quiet operation is a real plus, as well as power consumption, and since business PC's don't need to be cutting-edge, middle-end processors can be used that don't generate a lot of heat.Tor the enthusiast however, BTX looks like a bust to me, more of an attempt by Intel to throw the market out of whack, specifically AMD's market. Enthusiasts already have case designs meant to exhaust a lot of air and keep systems cool. Many enthusiasts LIKE a little bit larger case so that they have more expansion room, with the exception of their HTPC, and so that they can house a decent power supply for that expansion.
I see HP, Compaq, IBM, and other mainstream business computing giants adopting BTX; it will probably do well in the business market as well as in mass retail, where OEMs would rather make a system with less fans to fail and at cheaper cost. That's a pretty big sector for profit of course, but this form factor, IMO, leaves PC enthusiasts out in the cold.
Beenthere - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
BTX is obviously NOT a great design. Intel changes sockets, Mobo and other specs periodically to FORCE people to update to their latest crap. Don't expect a rush to BTX. It's another Intel spec unlikely to ever gain foothold...For those who don't already know you can do wonders for ATX case cooling with "managed airflow". By actually directing incoming cool air to the heat sources and isolating the CPU fan from warm air in the case, no one really needs a BTX case and your PC will run much cooler with managed airflow.
While Intel definitely needs a tornado inside a box to cool their defective 90 nano CPUs, the BTX standard is just another Intel marketing scam for all practical purposes.
Just say NO !
ZobarStyl - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
God looking at those small cases makes me tremble and remember my parent's old IBM Pentium I system where you had to remove the PSU and the CD drive to install the RAM. I was so glad when I saw computers moving AWAY from this type of design...forget footprint, I want a case I can actually work in.Either way, congrats to Intel on making a new Delleron case, but I'm simply not interested. Great for OEM's but useless for me, just like most of Intel's products...
As for #3's question, why does Intel need it outside of helping their OEM buddies? Dual core is only going to make Prescott's heat issues stand out further and their x20/30/40's on the roadmap still are clocked in the range where they are going to be high heat output. All that heat has to go somewhere...
shabby - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
#5 that must be the canadian version, it'll keep us warm during winter by exhausting warm air into our faces.Jeff7181 - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Am I reading this right... warm air from the CPU is exhausted out the FRONT of the case????mcveigh - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
I can't get past page 1??????skunkbuster - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
will intel even need btx anymore? since they are probably going to be dumping the p4 in favor of the pM(eventually)?i thought one of the main reasons why btx was designed was to better handle the hotter p4 processors and to cool them more efficiently?
PuravSanghani - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
Thanks MAME, problem fixed :)MAME - Monday, November 15, 2004 - link
thumbnail of this article doesn't load on front page