I am a custom water cooling builder and know how expensive the obsession can get, but I had to price check those fans. That's ridiculous to pay 130 USD for just 3 fans. You would be better off getting some nice static pressure fans like the EK Vardars and then slapping some Phantek's light rings on top of them than paying a little over 40 USD per fan.
The cost is pretty high, but it looks and seems to perform well. Apart from the outrageously priced fans, perhaps one can find a cheaper pump+reservoir on EK's own website?
I’ve been building custom loops for years. Definitely check AliExpress / bykski/barrowch or if u don’t wanna wait then primochill ships from Utah . Fantastic high quality componentry without the premium bull from bitspower Corsair ek and the like
Especially when you consider that you can buy Noctua NF-A14 iPPC 2000/3000 PWM fans for under $30 each!
Personally, I'm going to go with industrial rated fans with a 6 year warranty (with a static of 4.18 mm H2O for the 2000 RPM), over some Corsair ones with RGB with static pressure below 2.0 mm H2O (for the 140mm model).
I was just about to chime in this sentiment. I have 4 NF-A14’s in my silverstone FT03 and I’m pretty sure they were all under $100 shipped when I upgraded the fans from the crap Silverstone included. The A14 iPPC’s also ram massive amounts of air through radiators, negating the need for a push + pull configuration.
Somehow I can’t believe the corsairs could do better unless they are a copy.
Wait, I have a FT03, too, it will barely fit three 120mm fans o.0 All Noctuas, of course. The stock Silverstone fans on basically every case I have ever purchased from them were noisy and didn't move much air.
EK-Furious Vardar has 5.81mm H20 static pressure with a 500-3000RPM range. It's selling for $25 USD on EKWB's website and $21.99 at MicroCenter. Bought two of them and had no regrets.
I bought one of those Noctua industrials fans some time ago as well. And while its true that they are very durable, they have one problem that makes them completely unusable for me.
They have to spin at around 1000 RPM to even start. Which makes them very audible even when your PC is idle. I since have switched to their new NF-A12x25, which have a minimum RPM of 450, which makes them completely inaudible when idle.
I got two EK Vardar Ferocity fans instead of Corsair's LL120 or ML120 fans for $43.98. The Corsair fans were $40-$45 each with roughly half (or less) the static pressure. The choice was obvious to me.
I paid $18 each for the 6 Phanteks 140mm x 25mm PH-F140XP-BK fans in my current build 5 years ago. Compared to the $10 each I'd previously paid for a batch of 120mm Yate Loon fans, even that felt steep. $40+ per fan is insane; thankfully unlike most performance parts fans are also used in large numbers by 'boring' system builders so getting models without paying a surcharge for frag harder disco blights should still be possible when I build my next system.
From an increase in overall noise I think one of the fans started to go bad a few months ago (and from a reduction in the amount of dust on the corresponding filter I think I know which one); the other 5 are still going strong. The increase in fan noise hasn't gotten high enough for me to confirm my suspicions by selectively disconnecting fans to see if the noise goes down.
Odd that the pics show 240+360 rads and he only uses the 240. General rule of thumb is 240/280 per cooled component.
As for noise, I'm running 360x2 "thin" rads (28mm?, hwl gts, corsair's oem) and good fans (a12s, notably not corsair.) Full/artificial load on an oc 3950x and a 1080ti is somewhere between actual silence and a very subtle woosh, depending on how far below spec/stock the component temps are kept. So as far as noise goes, if that's your concern and what you build around, you can safely assume it will be imperceptible/effectively silent 100% of the time, with heavy ocs, with a larger case and 360x3 or 420x2 rads (and expensive fans.)
Air is great for cpus, especially for relatively lower wattage 7nm amd stuff, if you don't mind minor spinup/spindown from brief temp spikes.
But there is absolutely no comparison with putting the gpu under water. You simply can't move 300W of heat quietly even with a fancy axial fan 2.5 slot hsf. I'm not sure that I could ever go back to the obnoxious noise of an air cooled gpu.
A single 280(?!) rad setup, as in this article, is relatively pointless and likely sounds about the same as system on full air. Which is a little disappointing and even a bit unfair in a corsair showcase, as they're rebadging the literal best components in hwl rads and the d5 pump.
If you read the review, he had to use the 240mm because of space constraints (caused by the E-ATX motherboard).
I wish he would have ran this guy without the ASRock power delivery H2O block/s connected.
I.E. Just shown us the performance of cooling the CPU alone, since no AIO cooler can connect to multiple blocks and the review is meant to be against AIO coolers.
You can easily get away with a 120x38 radiator on a 84w CPU, but you will need a push and pull fan to effectively cool that radiator. I’ve run 54-65w CPU’s with full core boost enabled on cheap closed loop coolers with those thin 25mm radiators and “they work” but you need two fans and they will run at full speed during load. Don’t ask me why, it’s what the customer wanted :P
My bad. It's mentioned that Corsairs only amd gpu block is for 5700 XT, the test bed uses 5700 XT, but upon closer inspection of course they're using stock air cooler.
I've got a Radeon VII with an EKWB GPU block, Coolstream SE 240mm radiator, 2 EK-Furious Vardar fans, and a DDC pump. I also have a Corsair Hydro XC7 CPU block for my 3900X, all soft tubing. I'm especially curious to see the noise comparison between this setup versus air cooled Radeon VII and an H100i v2 Platinum 240mm AIO. Mind you, that AIO got pretty loud.
Oh shut up. Arm-chair reviewer sat behind their monitor complaining about everything. Perhaps the author only had that model on hand at the time. They still put a lot of effort into reviewing it and you can take the Delta figures and compare to another more comprehensive AIO review elsewhere.
Don't comment if you're going to post such dumb complaints.
I would expect a reasonable comparison of similar coolers, popular air and aio, in a credible tech website like Anandtech. If most small time youtubers can do this it shouldn't be that difficult. What tech reviewer doesn't have an x62, h115 or h100, and a NH-D15 already? It would be like only having an AMD g3000 as the only amd chip for comparison to an intel 9900k.
Looking at numbers from 'elsewhere' will have a different test bench, different ambient temps, and in general will not be similar in any way to this review.
Sit down troll. Go find an intelligent comment and try again.
Let's not omit the fact that Corsair did hire someone from Anandtech so there is a connection. However, I do not believe that AT overtly advertises without making it abundantly clear content is paid for by a third party. Ryan and company may let a few typos slip here and there and yes, debating article quality is fair (including pointing out personal bias *cough* Killer NICs *cough*), but I don't think there is any reason at all to question their journalistic integrity.
I recently put an EKWB block on my EVGA 2080 Ti. In the loop, I used a Corsair XR5 240mm radiator, and I have to say, I was very pleasantly impressed by the quality of the rad for its price. The screw/tube protectors are by far the best feature I've seen on a low cost radiator in a very long time. The cooling performance was also astronomical (can't break 52 C under max load on GPU w/overclock)
"The cooling performance was also astronomical (can't break 52 C under max load on GPU w/overclock)"? Shill detected. I have never been able to break 52 C under load with ANY custom liquid cooling on a flagship GPU, that includes all titans and flagships from 780 Ti to 2080 Ti, the highest I get is like 47C. Even with the EVGA Hybrid cards with AIO liquid cooling and 120mm radiator, you will never see 55C in most cases. The cooling performance in a custom liquid cooling loop is not just about the radiator, the fans, pump, block, the shape of the loop all matters. Using a mediocre load temperature to claim the radiator is good is absurd, and I have seen anyone talking about "screw/tube protectors" on a radiator, wtf is that? If you are talking about the little metal shield underneath the screw hole but above the fins, that is completely useless because you can simply have the screw holes spaced between the fins instead of the tiny tubes like every single radiator is doing nowadays. Even if the screws are too long they will just bend the fins which doesn't really matter as long as they don't pierce the tube.
Wait, how is he a shill if you're the one getting better performance?
Anyway, Corsair rebadges hardwarelabs rads. They swap out to thicker screw channels to reduce the chance of puncture in case you for some reason have a three year old with power tools doing the installation sideways, and they include longer screws for push+pull in the box. And they put their logo on it. Other than that, it is a HWL product.
$500+ in order to run an overclock that may work on a cheaper cooler or even on air cooling that ultimately gains 5% in a couple of benchmarks. Yes, it looks cool. Yes, you can say you put together a custom cooling loop. That's a lot of effort, resources, and time for little reward over not overclocked parts running an inexpensive air cooler.
Try 2%. With turbo boost and Intel falling behind in nm technology, there is very little OC headroom for processors like 9900K which is already pushed to the limit at 4.7GHz all core. AMD's PB does a better job than manual OC most of the time. Video cards are wattage capped so it's not like raising the voltage or core frequency does much, MSI AB doesn't work on most of the cards when it comes to raising TDP.
Many cards can have their power limit raised to 108% of the stock rating using Afterburner. However, like you said, there are cards that won't allow you to raise that limit at all. There are also cards that allow you to raise the limit up to 112%, so it goes both ways.
I do agree that using dedicated H2O setups on current generation cards will be disappointed by their OC gains. This is due to how tight the power constraints were on the last 2 or 3 generations of NV cards. Well, unless you are willing to take a soldering iron to their GPU, then all bets are off! Voltage mods are a lot of fun, as long as you don't kill the card!
I can guarantee you that almost all of the 9900k on the market can reach an all-core 5ghz OC, even those from lots sold after the launch of the 9900ks. You do need a *solid* cpu cooler and if you live in a place with high ambient temps then you’re facing an uphill battle. My own personal recommendation would be to use at least a 280mm AIO for the CPU alone, in this use case (Kraken X62, H115i, etc.), with these beefy CPUs.
Only when you use a 360mm or better liquid cooling. I have handled many 9900K, single 120mm rad is not enough to keep most under load without overclocking, you will see instant 90C+. 240mm rad is probably the minimal for 9900K unless you want to undervoltage. It's just not worth it to get a 0.3GHz OC for so much hassle. On the contrary, H60 can easily keep 3700X under 65C.
Its not about OC these days, it about RGB/bling or silence. And I've discovered for a vast majority of the bling people, its not a "set it and forget it" deal, but much closer to a hobby. They're constantly tinkering and rearranging and replacing with the latest unicorn vomit fans and such. "Old" cooling parts build up and then its a challenge to watercool some old system with an "unfriendly" case they had sitting around that doesn't even actually get use. And so on. Hey, its their money and they're having fun, so whatever. And because they spend lots of money on tons of various parts, you can get good advice from from people with lots of first hand experience with different products very easily.
I'm one of the uncommon ones that just wants it to work, without lights.
Its honestly a little creepy at first. After 30 years of the computer responding to heavy loads (esp. on the gpu) with *some* sort of noise its just.. not there anymore.
It is certainly a hell of a lot cheaper if noise doesn't bother you and you stick to air. But alas, the initial outlay is done. That aside, maintenance is easier/less frequent than I expected with some silly tricks as well as not using colored fluid. I'm looking at +$200 on each socket+gpu swap for blocks, which isn't terrible considering a good CPU HSF or AIO is $80-150, and there isn't even a comparable option for the GPU or chipset unless you get "creative."
But yeah, "home overclocking" is pretty much dead and any extra additional headroom from watercooling is considered a tertiary fringe benefit.
Not gonna lie, I went full RGB so I could set the color scheme to the colors of the Ryzen Halo logo. It worked best in a case like the Thermaltake Core V1, I replaced the stock 200mm fan for a faster 200mm Riing Plus RGB fan and got the effect to work nicely.
Then I upgraded to the Nouvolo Steck. I got a 240mm H100i v2 for it and appreciated the extra RGB (RAM, motherboard, AIO). However, I didn't like the extra cost and didn't need the extra RGB per se. I went for a custom loop, with the fans being the first to be replaced with regular fans. My blocks are RGB, sure, with the XC7 requiring the Lighting Node Pro. That thing was what I wanted with 4 RGB strips with a tiny RGB controller to fit in a small space for such a compact build. I honestly thought about simply abandoning most RGB components in the future save RAM and my Lightning Node Pro. The cost of RGB on everything is so dumb to me. I also don't like unicorn vomit.
"I'm one of the uncommon ones that just wants it to work, without lights."
You are my hero.
But I didn't take the jump, yet. I would settle with big Noctua fans and heatsinks or whatever the best air setups can provide... considering I live in a country where 95F ambient is commonly known as "a nippy summer" and 59F is known as "dead frozen winter".
Yeah, I'm not after overclocking, just avoid thermal throttling is a win already.
The main reason my current system is watercooled and the GPU in my next one definitely will be is lower fan noise. 120/140x25mm fans on a radiator are far quieter than 70/80x10mm fans on the GPU.
Assuming I do a custom loop for the GPU cooler again (I've seen AIO water cooler to GPU adapters, but never looked into them) I'll probably do the CPU too just for completeness, even if I don't go with a zillion core count model that's hot enough to make it mandatory. (Depends what the market looks like in mid 2022.)
The argument for bigger, slower, and quieter fans at the radiator to reduce noise is a good one to be sure. There is really nothing quite like going from a totally passive, silent system to one that is packed with whirring fans. I'm not so sure its worth the cost of components in this specific build example which is mainly my point of criticism as there are lower cost options that reach the same goal, but I do agree that silence is certainly has value.
I get why some people may want to overclock with watercooling, but at the end of the day it's way too much work, too many chances for leak, more maintenance, very expensive, heavy, and if you hate pump noise, then air cooling works really well without the hassle. Especially if you have the right case.
Is overclocking the CPU even worth while anymore? I am a Blender User and CUDA support for Nvidia GPU rendering has really changed my life. My RTX 2080 can render so much faster and unlike CPU rendering the fans barely get any louder. Renderings complete in about one third the time compared to my 9900K. My gaming is at 4K now also, so there is no CPU bottleneck that needs alleviating. At a time when everyone is water-cooling, I'm thinking that it's unnecessary, I'm going back to air cooling.
Any specific reasoning for the use of such old AGESA/BIOS versions? Your testbed lists them as having the ABBA release, which predates, and is not recommended for use by AMD on, the 3950X.
The current releases are 2.10 for the Creator (January 22nd) and P1.70 for the Aqua (December 12th).
You list a 3950x as the CPU but are linking to a 3700x. I assume the 3950 is what was used, but if you got the hookup on a $329 3950 please share the deets with us :D
Because the CEO made a bet with his friends that he could release an overpriced potato head and intelligent discerning gamers will happily buy it as long as it was lit up with LEDs.
Judging from the amount of clicks and comments on this article, I fear we may see more vajazzled articles on AnandTech.
In what world are such temperatures, i test some air coolers and custom water systems but this what a see here is from another world.....I don't see a forum that doesn't have a high tempreature thread....(3900x and 3950X)
Ok, I see. But we are still left with not that much cooling performance difference between the el-cheapo product and the expensive product and no indication on weather or not the slightly better cooling would equate to any performance benefits.
They do correct typos and errors (sometimes) if you point them out in specific, but that depends on whether or not someone, either the writer or Ryan, skims through the comments.
Yes, they need to do a lot better. It does say a lot that some of these glaring issues are actually published and some elbow grease is certainly warranted to make improvements on writing quality that has declined in recent years. I'd still give them a pass because coherent writing and skillful editing are dying arts thanks in no small part to autocorrection features and squggly red and green lines we now find in word processors.
In "any system"? The answer is easy: To save money. But I agree that if you are buying a $700+ CPU and putting it on a $1000 motherboard and adding an $800+ cooling system, then skimping on the RAM would be foolish.
For purposes of the test though, it doesn't matter since they were testing cooling performance.
OK, so I'm not so in to the custom loop thing. For me, this story confirms that I've made a good choice there. Here's why?
The ID Cooling AIO they use as a comparison is a relatively low end unit. I couldn't find a price on it but I did find a review that said it wasn't as good as other similar AIO units and specifically cited the Corsair H100i as being superior. The H100i is $157 on Amazon.
In spite of the relative crapiness of the ID cooling product, in the test it kept the overclocked 3950X down to 60C under load. That seems to me to be a darned good result. My overclocked 1700 peaks at about 65C under load using an H55 with push-pull fans and I consider that plenty good enough.
So other than the cool/appearance factor, what is really to be gained from the custom loop given that I don't care about GPU cooling - Just CPU?
What I was hoping to see was if they were able to get any more performance as a result of the lower temperatures. For example, at stock setting will the CPU boost higher or for longer or on more cores? Can you get a higher overclock out of it?
WHAT?! You don't use Corsairs water blocks when you're doing a review of CORSAIRs water cooling system?! What a waste of everyone's time! That's the point I stopped reading! You should NOT have used that MoBo.
Why has someone removed my post which was complaining about your testing methods?! How can u do a test of CORSAIRs water cooling system and then NOT USE their accociated water blocks?!? = Total waste of everyone's time.
I went to Corsair's website and filtered the cases for E-ATX cases the Corsair Crystal 680X chassis, does show up. So, they are claiming it fits a E-ATX motherboard.
Many of you are comparing plastic parts with nylon and aren't even aware of it.
"The Corsair Hydro X range, unlike other water cooling brands, is primarily constructed of nylon which as a material, which Corsair claims is more durable and easier to produce in higher quantities. All of Corsair's Hydro X Series water blocks come with G1/4" threads, and each block has thermal materials pre-applied for ease of use."
"As nouns the difference between nylon and plastic. is that nylon is originally, the (dupont) company trade name for polyamide, a copolymer whose molecules consist of alternating diamine and dicarboxylic acid monomers bonded together; now generically used for this type of polymer while plastic is (obsolete) a sculptor, moulder. Sep 12 2019"
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Ninhalem - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I am a custom water cooling builder and know how expensive the obsession can get, but I had to price check those fans. That's ridiculous to pay 130 USD for just 3 fans. You would be better off getting some nice static pressure fans like the EK Vardars and then slapping some Phantek's light rings on top of them than paying a little over 40 USD per fan.YB1064 - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
The cost is pretty high, but it looks and seems to perform well. Apart from the outrageously priced fans, perhaps one can find a cheaper pump+reservoir on EK's own website?Hxx - Friday, February 7, 2020 - link
I’ve been building custom loops for years. Definitely check AliExpress / bykski/barrowch or if u don’t wanna wait then primochill ships from Utah . Fantastic high quality componentry without the premium bull from bitspower Corsair ek and the likehanselltc - Monday, February 17, 2020 - link
Keep in mind you need aluminium parts though just to be cautiousLedHed - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Especially when you consider that you can buy Noctua NF-A14 iPPC 2000/3000 PWM fans for under $30 each!Personally, I'm going to go with industrial rated fans with a 6 year warranty (with a static of 4.18 mm H2O for the 2000 RPM), over some Corsair ones with RGB with static pressure below 2.0 mm H2O (for the 140mm model).
Samus - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I was just about to chime in this sentiment. I have 4 NF-A14’s in my silverstone FT03 and I’m pretty sure they were all under $100 shipped when I upgraded the fans from the crap Silverstone included. The A14 iPPC’s also ram massive amounts of air through radiators, negating the need for a push + pull configuration.Somehow I can’t believe the corsairs could do better unless they are a copy.
jeremyshaw - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Wait, I have a FT03, too, it will barely fit three 120mm fans o.0All Noctuas, of course. The stock Silverstone fans on basically every case I have ever purchased from them were noisy and didn't move much air.
Maybe it was the FT02 or FT05 (5 - 2 = 3 :P)?
FatBoyDiesel - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
EK-Furious Vardar has 5.81mm H20 static pressure with a 500-3000RPM range. It's selling for $25 USD on EKWB's website and $21.99 at MicroCenter. Bought two of them and had no regrets.supdawgwtfd - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
But... RGB!Azune - Friday, February 7, 2020 - link
I bought one of those Noctua industrials fans some time ago as well. And while its true that they are very durable, they have one problem that makes them completely unusable for me.They have to spin at around 1000 RPM to even start. Which makes them very audible even when your PC is idle. I since have switched to their new NF-A12x25, which have a minimum RPM of 450, which makes them completely inaudible when idle.
tamalero - Friday, February 7, 2020 - link
You're using the 3,000 RPM ones?Have you tried the 2000 ones?
FatBoyDiesel - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I got two EK Vardar Ferocity fans instead of Corsair's LL120 or ML120 fans for $43.98. The Corsair fans were $40-$45 each with roughly half (or less) the static pressure. The choice was obvious to me.FatBoyDiesel - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I meant Furious, not Ferocity. Autocorrect fail.DanNeely - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I paid $18 each for the 6 Phanteks 140mm x 25mm PH-F140XP-BK fans in my current build 5 years ago. Compared to the $10 each I'd previously paid for a batch of 120mm Yate Loon fans, even that felt steep. $40+ per fan is insane; thankfully unlike most performance parts fans are also used in large numbers by 'boring' system builders so getting models without paying a surcharge for frag harder disco blights should still be possible when I build my next system.From an increase in overall noise I think one of the fans started to go bad a few months ago (and from a reduction in the amount of dust on the corresponding filter I think I know which one); the other 5 are still going strong. The increase in fan noise hasn't gotten high enough for me to confirm my suspicions by selectively disconnecting fans to see if the noise goes down.
12345 - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
These radiators don't require that much static pressure. They're only 16fpi and the fins aren't louvered.eek2121 - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Corsair charges a lot for their fans, however, they also have some of the best performing fans on the market.sarafino - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Noctua fans easily outperform Corsair's fan lineup.Daveteauk - Sunday, February 9, 2020 - link
You're obviously a Corsair fanboy as that is completely untrue!satai - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I would like to see a comparison (both performance and noise) to a high end air cooler.brontes - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Odd that the pics show 240+360 rads and he only uses the 240. General rule of thumb is 240/280 per cooled component.As for noise, I'm running 360x2 "thin" rads (28mm?, hwl gts, corsair's oem) and good fans (a12s, notably not corsair.) Full/artificial load on an oc 3950x and a 1080ti is somewhere between actual silence and a very subtle woosh, depending on how far below spec/stock the component temps are kept. So as far as noise goes, if that's your concern and what you build around, you can safely assume it will be imperceptible/effectively silent 100% of the time, with heavy ocs, with a larger case and 360x3 or 420x2 rads (and expensive fans.)
Air is great for cpus, especially for relatively lower wattage 7nm amd stuff, if you don't mind minor spinup/spindown from brief temp spikes.
But there is absolutely no comparison with putting the gpu under water. You simply can't move 300W of heat quietly even with a fancy axial fan 2.5 slot hsf. I'm not sure that I could ever go back to the obnoxious noise of an air cooled gpu.
A single 280(?!) rad setup, as in this article, is relatively pointless and likely sounds about the same as system on full air. Which is a little disappointing and even a bit unfair in a corsair showcase, as they're rebadging the literal best components in hwl rads and the d5 pump.
LedHed - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
If you read the review, he had to use the 240mm because of space constraints (caused by the E-ATX motherboard).I wish he would have ran this guy without the ASRock power delivery H2O block/s connected.
I.E. Just shown us the performance of cooling the CPU alone, since no AIO cooler can connect to multiple blocks and the review is meant to be against AIO coolers.
Samus - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
You can easily get away with a 120x38 radiator on a 84w CPU, but you will need a push and pull fan to effectively cool that radiator. I’ve run 54-65w CPU’s with full core boost enabled on cheap closed loop coolers with those thin 25mm radiators and “they work” but you need two fans and they will run at full speed during load. Don’t ask me why, it’s what the customer wanted :Pbrontes - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
My bad. It's mentioned that Corsairs only amd gpu block is for 5700 XT, the test bed uses 5700 XT, but upon closer inspection of course they're using stock air cooler.Why would you ever custom loop for just the cpu.
FatBoyDiesel - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I've got a Radeon VII with an EKWB GPU block, Coolstream SE 240mm radiator, 2 EK-Furious Vardar fans, and a DDC pump. I also have a Corsair Hydro XC7 CPU block for my 3900X, all soft tubing. I'm especially curious to see the noise comparison between this setup versus air cooled Radeon VII and an H100i v2 Platinum 240mm AIO. Mind you, that AIO got pretty loud.LedHed - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
As well as the common AIO coolers, like the x62, H110 and H115.Who the heck owns an ID-Cooling Auraflow 240??
anactoraaron - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Yeah this whole article seems like a corsair ad. It's almost like corsair found a very poor performing aio and sent it with everything else.AshlayW - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Oh shut up. Arm-chair reviewer sat behind their monitor complaining about everything. Perhaps the author only had that model on hand at the time. They still put a lot of effort into reviewing it and you can take the Delta figures and compare to another more comprehensive AIO review elsewhere.Don't comment if you're going to post such dumb complaints.
anactoraaron - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
I would expect a reasonable comparison of similar coolers, popular air and aio, in a credible tech website like Anandtech. If most small time youtubers can do this it shouldn't be that difficult. What tech reviewer doesn't have an x62, h115 or h100, and a NH-D15 already? It would be like only having an AMD g3000 as the only amd chip for comparison to an intel 9900k.Looking at numbers from 'elsewhere' will have a different test bench, different ambient temps, and in general will not be similar in any way to this review.
Sit down troll. Go find an intelligent comment and try again.
PeachNCream - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Let's not omit the fact that Corsair did hire someone from Anandtech so there is a connection. However, I do not believe that AT overtly advertises without making it abundantly clear content is paid for by a third party. Ryan and company may let a few typos slip here and there and yes, debating article quality is fair (including pointing out personal bias *cough* Killer NICs *cough*), but I don't think there is any reason at all to question their journalistic integrity.Drkrieger01 - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I recently put an EKWB block on my EVGA 2080 Ti. In the loop, I used a Corsair XR5 240mm radiator, and I have to say, I was very pleasantly impressed by the quality of the rad for its price. The screw/tube protectors are by far the best feature I've seen on a low cost radiator in a very long time. The cooling performance was also astronomical (can't break 52 C under max load on GPU w/overclock)airdrifting - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
"The cooling performance was also astronomical (can't break 52 C under max load on GPU w/overclock)"?Shill detected. I have never been able to break 52 C under load with ANY custom liquid cooling on a flagship GPU, that includes all titans and flagships from 780 Ti to 2080 Ti, the highest I get is like 47C. Even with the EVGA Hybrid cards with AIO liquid cooling and 120mm radiator, you will never see 55C in most cases.
The cooling performance in a custom liquid cooling loop is not just about the radiator, the fans, pump, block, the shape of the loop all matters. Using a mediocre load temperature to claim the radiator is good is absurd, and I have seen anyone talking about "screw/tube protectors" on a radiator, wtf is that? If you are talking about the little metal shield underneath the screw hole but above the fins, that is completely useless because you can simply have the screw holes spaced between the fins instead of the tiny tubes like every single radiator is doing nowadays. Even if the screws are too long they will just bend the fins which doesn't really matter as long as they don't pierce the tube.
brontes - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Wait, how is he a shill if you're the one getting better performance?Anyway, Corsair rebadges hardwarelabs rads. They swap out to thicker screw channels to reduce the chance of puncture in case you for some reason have a three year old with power tools doing the installation sideways, and they include longer screws for push+pull in the box. And they put their logo on it. Other than that, it is a HWL product.
AshlayW - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
How is he a shill if he's not putting the product in the best possible light? Shut up.PeachNCream - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
$500+ in order to run an overclock that may work on a cheaper cooler or even on air cooling that ultimately gains 5% in a couple of benchmarks. Yes, it looks cool. Yes, you can say you put together a custom cooling loop. That's a lot of effort, resources, and time for little reward over not overclocked parts running an inexpensive air cooler.airdrifting - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Try 2%. With turbo boost and Intel falling behind in nm technology, there is very little OC headroom for processors like 9900K which is already pushed to the limit at 4.7GHz all core. AMD's PB does a better job than manual OC most of the time. Video cards are wattage capped so it's not like raising the voltage or core frequency does much, MSI AB doesn't work on most of the cards when it comes to raising TDP.LedHed - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Many cards can have their power limit raised to 108% of the stock rating using Afterburner. However, like you said, there are cards that won't allow you to raise that limit at all. There are also cards that allow you to raise the limit up to 112%, so it goes both ways.I do agree that using dedicated H2O setups on current generation cards will be disappointed by their OC gains. This is due to how tight the power constraints were on the last 2 or 3 generations of NV cards. Well, unless you are willing to take a soldering iron to their GPU, then all bets are off! Voltage mods are a lot of fun, as long as you don't kill the card!
liquid_c - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I can guarantee you that almost all of the 9900k on the market can reach an all-core 5ghz OC, even those from lots sold after the launch of the 9900ks. You do need a *solid* cpu cooler and if you live in a place with high ambient temps then you’re facing an uphill battle.My own personal recommendation would be to use at least a 280mm AIO for the CPU alone, in this use case (Kraken X62, H115i, etc.), with these beefy CPUs.
airdrifting - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Only when you use a 360mm or better liquid cooling. I have handled many 9900K, single 120mm rad is not enough to keep most under load without overclocking, you will see instant 90C+. 240mm rad is probably the minimal for 9900K unless you want to undervoltage. It's just not worth it to get a 0.3GHz OC for so much hassle. On the contrary, H60 can easily keep 3700X under 65C.brontes - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Its not about OC these days, it about RGB/bling or silence. And I've discovered for a vast majority of the bling people, its not a "set it and forget it" deal, but much closer to a hobby. They're constantly tinkering and rearranging and replacing with the latest unicorn vomit fans and such. "Old" cooling parts build up and then its a challenge to watercool some old system with an "unfriendly" case they had sitting around that doesn't even actually get use. And so on. Hey, its their money and they're having fun, so whatever. And because they spend lots of money on tons of various parts, you can get good advice from from people with lots of first hand experience with different products very easily.I'm one of the uncommon ones that just wants it to work, without lights.
Its honestly a little creepy at first. After 30 years of the computer responding to heavy loads (esp. on the gpu) with *some* sort of noise its just.. not there anymore.
It is certainly a hell of a lot cheaper if noise doesn't bother you and you stick to air. But alas, the initial outlay is done. That aside, maintenance is easier/less frequent than I expected with some silly tricks as well as not using colored fluid. I'm looking at +$200 on each socket+gpu swap for blocks, which isn't terrible considering a good CPU HSF or AIO is $80-150, and there isn't even a comparable option for the GPU or chipset unless you get "creative."
But yeah, "home overclocking" is pretty much dead and any extra additional headroom from watercooling is considered a tertiary fringe benefit.
FatBoyDiesel - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Not gonna lie, I went full RGB so I could set the color scheme to the colors of the Ryzen Halo logo. It worked best in a case like the Thermaltake Core V1, I replaced the stock 200mm fan for a faster 200mm Riing Plus RGB fan and got the effect to work nicely.Then I upgraded to the Nouvolo Steck. I got a 240mm H100i v2 for it and appreciated the extra RGB (RAM, motherboard, AIO). However, I didn't like the extra cost and didn't need the extra RGB per se. I went for a custom loop, with the fans being the first to be replaced with regular fans. My blocks are RGB, sure, with the XC7 requiring the Lighting Node Pro. That thing was what I wanted with 4 RGB strips with a tiny RGB controller to fit in a small space for such a compact build. I honestly thought about simply abandoning most RGB components in the future save RAM and my Lightning Node Pro. The cost of RGB on everything is so dumb to me. I also don't like unicorn vomit.
Gonemad - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
"I'm one of the uncommon ones that just wants it to work, without lights."You are my hero.
But I didn't take the jump, yet. I would settle with big Noctua fans and heatsinks or whatever the best air setups can provide... considering I live in a country where 95F ambient is commonly known as "a nippy summer" and 59F is known as "dead frozen winter".
Yeah, I'm not after overclocking, just avoid thermal throttling is a win already.
surt - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Would love to know more about your setup. I just want silence and would prefer my components be invisible (zero bling).DanNeely - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
The main reason my current system is watercooled and the GPU in my next one definitely will be is lower fan noise. 120/140x25mm fans on a radiator are far quieter than 70/80x10mm fans on the GPU.Assuming I do a custom loop for the GPU cooler again (I've seen AIO water cooler to GPU adapters, but never looked into them) I'll probably do the CPU too just for completeness, even if I don't go with a zillion core count model that's hot enough to make it mandatory. (Depends what the market looks like in mid 2022.)
PeachNCream - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
The argument for bigger, slower, and quieter fans at the radiator to reduce noise is a good one to be sure. There is really nothing quite like going from a totally passive, silent system to one that is packed with whirring fans. I'm not so sure its worth the cost of components in this specific build example which is mainly my point of criticism as there are lower cost options that reach the same goal, but I do agree that silence is certainly has value.AshlayW - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
It's called a hobby, hon. This site is also for PC hobbiests who enjoy this sort of thing.Protip: Untangle your jimmies.
PeachNCream - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Protip: Refer to yourself to your own protip.Dug - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
I get why some people may want to overclock with watercooling, but at the end of the day it's way too much work, too many chances for leak, more maintenance, very expensive, heavy, and if you hate pump noise, then air cooling works really well without the hassle. Especially if you have the right case.TEAMSWITCHER - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Is overclocking the CPU even worth while anymore? I am a Blender User and CUDA support for Nvidia GPU rendering has really changed my life. My RTX 2080 can render so much faster and unlike CPU rendering the fans barely get any louder. Renderings complete in about one third the time compared to my 9900K. My gaming is at 4K now also, so there is no CPU bottleneck that needs alleviating. At a time when everyone is water-cooling, I'm thinking that it's unnecessary, I'm going back to air cooling.Slash3 - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Any specific reasoning for the use of such old AGESA/BIOS versions? Your testbed lists them as having the ABBA release, which predates, and is not recommended for use by AMD on, the 3950X.The current releases are 2.10 for the Creator (January 22nd) and P1.70 for the Aqua (December 12th).
HideOut - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
You list a 3950x as the CPU but are linking to a 3700x. I assume the 3950 is what was used, but if you got the hookup on a $329 3950 please share the deets with us :DHolliday75 - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Was going to post this. I was like uhhhhhhhhhhh I was not planning on buying a new CPU, but at that price buy buy buy!airdrifting - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Who is paying $130 for 3 Corsair fans? lolMakaveli - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
lol I have a Corsair H150i which is RGB but comes with just Regular ML fans.As soon as I saw the price for Corsair RGB fans I said forget that idea.
I payed like $200 CAD for the H150 I was not going to spend $130 on fans just for RGB.
Corsair what are you smoking.
Teledhil - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Is the World of Tanks enCore a useful benchmark? I get around 200 fps with my i7-2600k@4'3GHz and a RTX-2080. (1080p with max settings, no RTX)eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Why does the illuminated CPU cooling look like Mr. Potato Head?Tomatotech - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Because the CEO made a bet with his friends that he could release an overpriced potato head and intelligent discerning gamers will happily buy it as long as it was lit up with LEDs.Judging from the amount of clicks and comments on this article, I fear we may see more vajazzled articles on AnandTech.
Arbie - Wednesday, February 5, 2020 - link
Which is the larger factor in selling liquid cooling:• Actual need, to manage very hot chips at tolerable noise levels.
or
• Relentless hype and attention on tech websites.
??
Neither one will ever sell it to me. And - 30W for the pump alone?
Roboionator - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
In what world are such temperatures, i test some air coolers and custom water systems but this what a see here is from another world.....I don't see a forum that doesn't have a high tempreature thread....(3900x and 3950X)Roboionator - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
delta temp, all temps + 21/22 just confusingRatman6161 - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Ok, I see. But we are still left with not that much cooling performance difference between the el-cheapo product and the expensive product and no indication on weather or not the slightly better cooling would equate to any performance benefits.supdawgwtfd - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Wanted. Native English speaker to read articles before posting...Seriously.... The absolutely terrible English in this a review is... Well. Terrible.
Spelling mistakes. Repeating words. Disjointed sentences.
Hire a fucking editor.
supdawgwtfd - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Wanted. Native English speaker to read articles before posting...Seriously.... The absolutely terrible English in this a review is... Well. Terrible.
Spelling mistakes. Repeating words. Disjointed sentences.
Hire a fucking editor.
PeachNCream - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
They do correct typos and errors (sometimes) if you point them out in specific, but that depends on whether or not someone, either the writer or Ryan, skims through the comments.Yes, they need to do a lot better. It does say a lot that some of these glaring issues are actually published and some elbow grease is certainly warranted to make improvements on writing quality that has declined in recent years. I'd still give them a pass because coherent writing and skillful editing are dying arts thanks in no small part to autocorrection features and squggly red and green lines we now find in word processors.
Targon - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
Why would you use DDR4-3200CL18 RAM on ANY system? CL16 is bad enough, but CL18?Ratman6161 - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
In "any system"? The answer is easy: To save money. But I agree that if you are buying a $700+ CPU and putting it on a $1000 motherboard and adding an $800+ cooling system, then skimping on the RAM would be foolish.For purposes of the test though, it doesn't matter since they were testing cooling performance.
Ratman6161 - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
OK, so I'm not so in to the custom loop thing. For me, this story confirms that I've made a good choice there. Here's why?The ID Cooling AIO they use as a comparison is a relatively low end unit. I couldn't find a price on it but I did find a review that said it wasn't as good as other similar AIO units and specifically cited the Corsair H100i as being superior. The H100i is $157 on Amazon.
In spite of the relative crapiness of the ID cooling product, in the test it kept the overclocked 3950X down to 60C under load. That seems to me to be a darned good result. My overclocked 1700 peaks at about 65C under load using an H55 with push-pull fans and I consider that plenty good enough.
So other than the cool/appearance factor, what is really to be gained from the custom loop given that I don't care about GPU cooling - Just CPU?
What I was hoping to see was if they were able to get any more performance as a result of the lower temperatures. For example, at stock setting will the CPU boost higher or for longer or on more cores? Can you get a higher overclock out of it?
Tomatotech - Thursday, February 6, 2020 - link
By using this, you gain a splatter of unicorn vomit all over your bedroom and a guarantee that you will never be crowded in your bed.Daveteauk - Friday, February 7, 2020 - link
WHAT?! You don't use Corsairs water blocks when you're doing a review of CORSAIRs water cooling system?! What a waste of everyone's time! That's the point I stopped reading! You should NOT have used that MoBo.Daveteauk - Sunday, February 9, 2020 - link
Why has someone removed my post which was complaining about your testing methods?! How can u do a test of CORSAIRs water cooling system and then NOT USE their accociated water blocks?!? = Total waste of everyone's time.Korguz - Sunday, February 9, 2020 - link
what are you talking about ?? your comment is still theredanjw - Sunday, February 9, 2020 - link
I went to Corsair's website and filtered the cases for E-ATX cases the Corsair Crystal 680X chassis, does show up. So, they are claiming it fits a E-ATX motherboard.Voxxx - Thursday, April 1, 2021 - link
Many of you are comparing plastic parts with nylon and aren't even aware of it."The Corsair Hydro X range, unlike other water cooling brands, is primarily constructed of nylon which as a material, which Corsair claims is more durable and easier to produce in higher quantities. All of Corsair's Hydro X Series water blocks come with G1/4" threads, and each block has thermal materials pre-applied for ease of use."
"As nouns the difference between nylon and plastic. is that nylon is originally, the (dupont) company trade name for polyamide, a copolymer whose molecules consist of alternating diamine and dicarboxylic acid monomers bonded together; now generically used for this type of polymer while plastic is (obsolete) a sculptor, moulder. Sep 12 2019"