I would prefer a PCIe 3.0 drive that can actually max the PCIe x4 link in every situation (including non-sequential access) rather than a PCIe 4.0 drive which is only going to improve peak read/write speed. The NAND chips still seem to be the most limiting factor here, not the PCIe link. Heck, even maxing SATA3 speed (600 MB/s) would be great. Even the high end SSDs aren't there yet and seem to crawl arround 100 MB/s in sustained random 4 KiB read (https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761/the-samsung-9...
That isn't going to happen over NVMe, or realistically, almost any block-based storage protocol. If you want random access that fast, you need random access memory.
Well 4K is extremely small these days, in the same article you can see them doing 128 kB reads at QD=1 and it scores 1700MB/s so over 50% of the IOPS even though each transfer is 32x as big. The only thing I can think of requiring that many small 4K reads would be a database but any table you're trashing like that should be in memory instead.
That's not going to happen with flash. It would require a random read access time of around 1 microsecond, and even the fastest NVMe drives are around 50 microseconds.
If you want to pay for DRAM-based storage, that exists.
I would ALSO prefer *insert thing that doesn't exist* rather than getting achievable improvements. Even when said achievable improvements are in areas that are measurable, and provide a boost in a number of real workloads for consumers.
Saratoga4 nailed it, you are asking for RAM performance. We might get close someday with NV mass storage but in the meantime why stall all other improvements? In the meantime you can buy the highest end enterprise hardware, that's about as close as you're going to get.
OoOoOoO maxing PCIe 4.0 and it's only just become available to the masses OoOoOoO
Also looking forward to raising random r/w as that is the most important speed stat and has lagged for a while now, but now it's the only thing that can improve (apart from capacity and cheapness).
I quite like ADATA at the moment. They've gone from releasing scores of shitty forgettable devices a few years ago to releasing some really rather good stuff. I have their XPG SX8200 1TB m.2 device and it's working well. The sequel, the SX8200 Pro, is wildly popular with MacBook owners seeking to upgrade their MacBooks.
Interesting to see real usage test... first gen Pci4.0 ssd have no any speed adwantage compared to pci3.0 drives in real world usage. Optane is still years ahead in that department. So far Pci4.0 is only usefull in peak big file transfer... So interesting to see if any of these new controllers gives any benefit in real usage cases!
I'm planning to buy the Samsung 980 PRO for my PCIe 2.0 laptop. Why? Because 1) PCIe 4.0 should be backwards compatible, 2) I have NVMe support in the bios already, 3) It will run at lower speeds so virtually no chance of throttling, 4) it will still likely outperform any PCIe 2.0 SSD in existence, and 5) I can move it to my next laptop which I plan to buy in 2021.
Interesting enough... I've been hunting for a PCIe 2.0 based NVMe SSD and as far as I can tell... They simply do not exist? I found 1 or 2 PCIe 2.0 drives that are AHCI... But no NVMe ones?
Pretty much what I found as well. My laptop uses a custom bios that specifically added NVMe support thanks to a well-known bios hacker. PCIe 2.0 was never meant to have NVMe.
Given the downward trajectory of prices, it would be foolish to buy 4.0 drives now unless you already have or plan to get 4.0 mobo within say, 3 months. It’s still bleeding edge and you’ll pay for that.
Six months? Get 3.0 now. In six months there will be better / cheaper 4.0 drives available. Actually your 3.0 drives will still be excellent when transferred to a 4.0 system given that at this moment in time you can pick from the best 3.0 drives ever made while the 4.0 choice is still very limited and somewhat experimental.
For me MLC nand is the only acceptable choice. There will be no downward trajectory in prices of SSDs using MLC nand. Because there is literally only one manufacturer of consumer grade MLC nand SSDs. They have no reason to ever lower their price, in fact they have all the more reason to increase it, now that it's becoming so rare and everyone else is moving towards QLC.
Most of what I've read so far was indicating that QLC was the only way we were going to get 4TB+ on an M.2 form factor this year. If this is indeed still TLC, I'll buy one for each of my systems.
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fred666 - Friday, January 17, 2020 - link
I would prefer a PCIe 3.0 drive that can actually max the PCIe x4 link in every situation (including non-sequential access) rather than a PCIe 4.0 drive which is only going to improve peak read/write speed.The NAND chips still seem to be the most limiting factor here, not the PCIe link.
Heck, even maxing SATA3 speed (600 MB/s) would be great. Even the high end SSDs aren't there yet and seem to crawl arround 100 MB/s in sustained random 4 KiB read (https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761/the-samsung-9...
teamet - Friday, January 17, 2020 - link
Riiight said fredextide - Friday, January 17, 2020 - link
There is always Optanesaratoga4 - Friday, January 17, 2020 - link
That isn't going to happen over NVMe, or realistically, almost any block-based storage protocol. If you want random access that fast, you need random access memory.Kjella - Friday, January 17, 2020 - link
Well 4K is extremely small these days, in the same article you can see them doing 128 kB reads at QD=1 and it scores 1700MB/s so over 50% of the IOPS even though each transfer is 32x as big. The only thing I can think of requiring that many small 4K reads would be a database but any table you're trashing like that should be in memory instead.ZachPA - Sunday, January 19, 2020 - link
Take a look at the 5- or 6-figures of entries in your SRUM and then tell me that 4k is such a small write these days.Flunk - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
This technology is available in the enterprise market. If you want to 100x as much for a drive I suggest you look there.PixyMisa - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
That's not going to happen with flash. It would require a random read access time of around 1 microsecond, and even the fastest NVMe drives are around 50 microseconds.If you want to pay for DRAM-based storage, that exists.
ksec - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
Any specific reason / workload you want that? It is not that Sustained Random 4K is the current bottleneck in most consumer application.fred666 - Monday, January 20, 2020 - link
It was just an example, there are still many cases were performance is under 600 MB/s, even more so with cheaper drives.vFunct - Monday, January 20, 2020 - link
Unless if you're running a database server, there's no real-world use case that saturates 600MB/s of random 4k access.Zero use case.
yeeeeman - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
Companies sell numbers these days...Makaveli - Monday, January 20, 2020 - link
These days?Has been going on since the dawn of time.
Alexvrb - Sunday, January 19, 2020 - link
I would ALSO prefer *insert thing that doesn't exist* rather than getting achievable improvements. Even when said achievable improvements are in areas that are measurable, and provide a boost in a number of real workloads for consumers.Saratoga4 nailed it, you are asking for RAM performance. We might get close someday with NV mass storage but in the meantime why stall all other improvements? In the meantime you can buy the highest end enterprise hardware, that's about as close as you're going to get.
Tomatotech - Friday, January 17, 2020 - link
OoOoOoO maxing PCIe 4.0 and it's only just become available to the masses OoOoOoOAlso looking forward to raising random r/w as that is the most important speed stat and has lagged for a while now, but now it's the only thing that can improve (apart from capacity and cheapness).
I quite like ADATA at the moment. They've gone from releasing scores of shitty forgettable devices a few years ago to releasing some really rather good stuff. I have their XPG SX8200 1TB m.2 device and it's working well. The sequel, the SX8200 Pro, is wildly popular with MacBook owners seeking to upgrade their MacBooks.
Alistair - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
looking for the first 100MB/s random read SSD (not optane)PixyMisa - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
Use a block size bigger than 4k and you can have that right now.haukionkannel - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
Interesting to see real usage test... first gen Pci4.0 ssd have no any speed adwantage compared to pci3.0 drives in real world usage. Optane is still years ahead in that department. So far Pci4.0 is only usefull in peak big file transfer... So interesting to see if any of these new controllers gives any benefit in real usage cases!Snowleopard3000 - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
PCI 5 is following PCI 4 so fast that why are they even wasting the effort for PCI 4?Makaveli - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
We don't see PCIe 5 in the market anytime soon.You got a source for this assumption?
It will show up in the enterprise market probably in 2021.
RSAUser - Saturday, January 18, 2020 - link
Because any PCIe 4 benefit transfers to 5...bill44 - Sunday, January 19, 2020 - link
I would like to see PCIe 4.0 drives tested in PCIe 3.0 slots.If you're looking to future-proof your purchase but only have PCIe 3.0 right now. Also external enclosures such as TB3 that only have PCIe 3.0.
anad0commenter - Monday, January 20, 2020 - link
I'm planning to buy the Samsung 980 PRO for my PCIe 2.0 laptop. Why? Because 1) PCIe 4.0 should be backwards compatible, 2) I have NVMe support in the bios already, 3) It will run at lower speeds so virtually no chance of throttling, 4) it will still likely outperform any PCIe 2.0 SSD in existence, and 5) I can move it to my next laptop which I plan to buy in 2021.weilin - Tuesday, January 21, 2020 - link
Interesting enough... I've been hunting for a PCIe 2.0 based NVMe SSD and as far as I can tell... They simply do not exist? I found 1 or 2 PCIe 2.0 drives that are AHCI... But no NVMe ones?anad0commenter - Tuesday, January 21, 2020 - link
Pretty much what I found as well. My laptop uses a custom bios that specifically added NVMe support thanks to a well-known bios hacker. PCIe 2.0 was never meant to have NVMe.Tomatotech - Monday, January 20, 2020 - link
Given the downward trajectory of prices, it would be foolish to buy 4.0 drives now unless you already have or plan to get 4.0 mobo within say, 3 months. It’s still bleeding edge and you’ll pay for that.Six months? Get 3.0 now. In six months there will be better / cheaper 4.0 drives available. Actually your 3.0 drives will still be excellent when transferred to a 4.0 system given that at this moment in time you can pick from the best 3.0 drives ever made while the 4.0 choice is still very limited and somewhat experimental.
anad0commenter - Monday, January 20, 2020 - link
For me MLC nand is the only acceptable choice. There will be no downward trajectory in prices of SSDs using MLC nand. Because there is literally only one manufacturer of consumer grade MLC nand SSDs. They have no reason to ever lower their price, in fact they have all the more reason to increase it, now that it's becoming so rare and everyone else is moving towards QLC.Makaveli - Monday, January 20, 2020 - link
3D TLC is acceptable these days for endurance so think its a good replacement for MLC currently. As for QLC no thanks.MLC will continue to get more expensive as time goes on.
James5mith - Monday, January 20, 2020 - link
A 4TB TLC M.2 drive? I'm definitely interested.Most of what I've read so far was indicating that QLC was the only way we were going to get 4TB+ on an M.2 form factor this year. If this is indeed still TLC, I'll buy one for each of my systems.