At least that is not much cheddar. :) Could.... not..... resist.
The brand should be Cheeseteks or if we want to continue the play on words by carrying out there Greek Ph replacement of F in Phanteks we could call it Chezteks.
But you're comparing the price of a case to that of a whole computer! That's unfair to Apple! I've heard the claim that the specs of the Mac Pro are so high that a similarly-equipped PC would be nearly as expensive - if one could even find one. While that may be true, of course, that misses the point, which was that open, upgradeable PC systems are available at much lower prices, which highlights how limited choices are in the Mac world.
It's not true. You can go configure a workstation from Dell/Lenovo/HP with equivalent specs for less, and you could build one yourself for even cheaper than that.
And you’ll end up with a crappy discounted virus prone inferior system that’s insecure and running Windows 10 instead of macOS. I have a bunch of Mac’s that I make money on and PC’s to play video games with.
I, too, have a gaming PC and an MBA and I've never thought MacOS was better than Windows 10. It was certainly better than Windows around the time of Vista, XP. That was a long time ago now, and IOS is as bloated and confusing as Windows 8.
But, sure, they have less glitches than the alternatives. Single vendor and all that.
100% agree with this. I've got a MacBook Pro and a Windows workstation, and I think Windows 10 is a better productivity OS in a lot of ways, and I now feel that on equivalent hardware, Windows 10 just **feels** snappier.
Having said that, it's not all life in paradise - Microsoft's QA with Windows 10 updates has been pretty abysmal over the past few years.
" And you’ll end up with a crappy discounted virus prone inferior system that’s insecure and running Windows 10 instead of macOS" yea sure.. and on average, that would cost A LOT more then a non apple made hardware.. no thanks.. i refuse to pay the apple tax. IF one is smart, and cautious where one goes, the " virus prone interior system " as you call it.. is a moot point. part of the reason why apple isnt targeted by viruses, malware and such, is because of the market share apple has, WHY would one who makes viruses, malware and such go after a market that is only say 40% of the user base, when more damage and headaches could be caused by going after 60% of the market ? if the market share was the other way.. i think it would be different....
40% sure there would be viruses and malware etc. MacOS does not command that much of the market. Try 16% according to this: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop... Also, it is nearing the threshold where it could become interesting.
HMMMMM, Overpriced Mac with 1 or 2 generations old hardware for work or a much cheaper windows based PC that will outperform the mac (Even as a hackintosh mac!) Wow!!!! how about using that mac for your games? Just like Gus here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzRrgZUnbFY Have fun fraggin!
True. People keep laughing at the $35000 Mac Pro because they are blissfully unaware that it's a completely different beast from the $600 PCs that they buy in Walmart. $18000 worth of RAM! Shocking! Until you realize it's marginally more expensive than the cheapest similar modules available on eBay. Or the $7500 Xeon CPU.
Building a Mac Pro equivlent will be 10% cheaper at best but probably with caveats that will cost you more than that.
I find these clone-components the pinnacle of kitsch. Even worse than the unicorn-vomit-LEDs that adorn every "respectable" PC nowadays. You're screaming "I actually wanted that but couldn't get it".
Yeah, this is the most tasteless nonsensical thing I've seen in awhile. Trying to be a Mac Pro ripoff while also cashing in on the RGB tempered glass trend; this thing has a real identity crisis going on for sure.
Also, random fun fact there is Dune Pro which is a pretty legit Mac Pro copy. It still demonstrates 0 originality in its design so it dosn't win many points for me but the build quality is there.
My first thought upon seeing this is how eBay will soon be filled with "Mac Pro" computers at 1/10th Apple's retail price, and when you get it you find it's the Dune Pro case with a basic $200 i3 build and a Hackintosh version of macOS installed on a spinning hard drive.
You should really do some comparison shopping. Apple charges a 300% markup on their RAM upgrades, and similar markups on their SSDs. Thats not "marginally more expensive."
Hopefully we don't even need to get into the fact that a 32-core Threadripper build stomps all over the MacPro while also costing far, far less money.
Want MacOS though? Then a 4.4GHz i9-10980XE beats the 28-core in pure CPU performance, plus some X299 boards have started adding support for RDIMMs in case you really need 1TB of RAM (granted, ECC is disabled thanks to Intel).
Apple charged ~$25000 for that RAM if I remember correctly (12 modules, 1.5TB). You can get them of eBay at ~$16000 but let's be totally honest here, if you drop $16K on RAM you're not necessarily in the market for systems built from the bargain bin. Same for the $7K CPU which Intel sells for $4.5K.
But for people like @M O B they'll just install 192 x 8GB modules of RAM for the same effect, and 6-8 GeForce 2080s instead of the $10k dual Radeon Pro Vega II Duo. And as many i3s as you can cram on the motherboard (40 should do it). ECC can be done by hand anyway.
Yes, at the very high end you may save even $15k by building something similar yourself (with more or less all the features) but you could probably do the same building your own fridge from parts. The package in this case is worth more than the sum of the parts.
Typically one would start at the beginning. Not sure what is so difficult here. Let me help you:
1. I can't be bothered to check, you can probably find one RAM upgrade where it is merely 50% more expensive than buying sticks on the market. 50% almost counts as marginally more expensive. Alternatively, point out that people buy from Dell/HP/Lenovo/… where markups are similar.
2. You can pick AVX 512 or memory intense workloads. STH likely has some suitable benchmarks for your purpose. Just don't make a mistake of looking at 1P EPYC.
3. Maybe point out warranty/support as he pointed out ECC already.
What fking weed are you smoking? Going from 32GB to 96GB, Apple is charging $1000 more for $64GB RAM. 64GB DDR4 RAM, ECC or not, does not cost $1000. And $3000 for 160GB RAM, are you sure? Also there is the $7000 28-Core Xeon that gets slapped around by a $2000 Threadripper, and which fking 2TB SSD cost $800?
No, hon, most high-end PC owners are fully aware of how overpriced Macs are. Apple unfortunately has a zealous fanbase of loyal thralls, uh, I mean "fans" that think the "Premium brand" is worth that money. If I had 35K to spend on a PC, custom built; it would absolutely take the biggest dump on that Xeon-W system. I'm thinking a 3990X system, you get me - $7500 on that Xeon is already a huge rip-off. And; 10% at 35K is 3500 USD, are you saying that is not a lot of money? And what caveats are you talking about? Not being able to build your PC properly? Speak for yourself not for everyone else.
Apple/Intel fanboys are the worst; because they genuinely belive their favourite company's products are worth the ridiculous markup. But hey; it's your money, bud.
@AshlayW: "No, hon," Unless you're the one I'm bending over a desk I'm not your hon.
"most high-end PC owners are fully aware " Most are fully aware of nothing. Even on a site like AT 99% of commenters are ignorant asses who have to start a comment with "no, hon" to compensate for the rest of the crap they'll spill.
You start off by saying that *Apple* is overpriced but then go on to compare 2 CPU prices coming from you know... not Apple.
Then you tell me about the 3990X which, as great of a processor as it may be, won't be the first pick for people wanting 1.5TB of RAM.
You're obviously not in the market for anything like that but you're smart enough to think all of those people dishing tens of thousands must be idiots. Hon. I think somewhere there must be a cave with an endless supply of you people, smartest people around thinking that if they read a review they know more than the professionals actually choosing to spend real money on the gear.
How about you run along and show me a workstation with the same specs and significantly lower price actually available on sale. Hon.
People that "require" more than 1 TB of RAM for a workstation are going to be very few and far between. The people that could financially benefit from being able to render at more than twice the speed at half the CPU price will be, well, almost everyone ... just saying. If one actually does need more RAM than 1TB- I just priced out an Epyc rig with 2TB of RAM and more cores, for a similar price to the 1.5 TB 28 core MAC Pro.
The Mac pro is a tough sell to anyone at its price but the most hardened fans.
Might want to dial that inner fanboy down a little ... its beginning to show.
Well, if you're buying a $35k computer you'd better make sure that the performance meets your needs for your specific workflow(s). The Mac Pro is certainly a great computer for certain use cases, but configuring a Windows workstation to be as close to a component-for-component match to the Mac Pro as possible misses the point that, in the end, there's a lot of people for whom Apple's offerings (5 different Xeon W processors and 5 different AMD GPUs) doesn't make a ton of sense from a performance perspective.
The upgrade models do get comparable to Dell/HP/everyone workstations, once you truly match up with Xeon Ws, pro graphics, and oodles of ECC RAM. However the base model is perhaps the worst value, 6K for 8 cores, a 580X, and 256GB of storage is handily beaten.
Yeah, I think they meant EPYC since the if you want anything comparable to this when it comes to RAM. Haven't seen any TR MoBo with more than 8 RAM slots. Not so easy to find even EPYC boards for 1.5TB of RAM.
Except everyone that needs extreme high bandwidth system. Here's a copy and paste of some highlights. four Thunderbolt 3 ports, two USB-A ports, and two 10Gb Ethernet ports.Connect up to 12 4K displays or up to six Pro Display XDRs play back up to six streams of 8K footage simultaneously at 29.97 fps in Final Cut Pro X, 4K footage in the same app, you can play back up to 23 streams of ProRes RAW video at 29.97 fps. Two mpx modules give 56.6 teraflops and 1TB/s memory bandwidth each.
Are there many TR motherboards with support for 1.5TB or RAM? Can I point you to my earlier statement about ignorance and what "most high end PC users already know"? This isn't the high end PC your mother buys you, it's a workstation and it fulfills certain requirements. If it's not for you carry on.
I can assure you the professionals who spend $50k on this have thought about it for far longer than the 40s it took you to google the price of a Threadripper and victoriously proclaim yourself "smart".
Between the CAPEX and OPEX they are better off buying this than scouring eBay for deals because they save a few thousands at purchase. But you already gave away the understanding you had when you started talking about "high end PC users". I bet you have never met anyone who actually needed something like this but you already know what's better for them. Hon ;).
The world has already changed... The CPU isn't the center of the computing universe anymore. Apple is focusing more on the performance of GPUs and dedicated hardware like their new Afterburner card to encode/decode ProRes Raw video. The closest thing in the PC World is a RedRocket card that sells for over $6500 without a PC. When looking at high-end video editing workstations, Total Cost Of Ownership is what really matters. And here, the MacPro with an Afterburner card is a real bargain.
Yup, comparison should be a 6k cheese grater to the 60 one - the entry price for both. You pay 50k for extra heat, but it doesn't make sense to compare that to a completely cold grater.
Can faster consumer systems be build for less than the Mac Pro's starting configuration? Most certainly less but the delta rapidly decreases as performance climbs. Being able to scale up to where the Mac Pro can climb is often overlooked as everyone focuses on the baseline.
The usage of Xeon W's help normalize the price a bit as those are expensive to begin with.
Where Apple misstepped is with the motherboard. That thing has to be expensive to build as there are memory slots on the underside and uses several expensive PCIe bridge chips. There really is no equivelant to what Apple is doing here. However server boards have gone up in price as CPUs have included more memory channels and IO.
GPU offerings are also interesting. The low end starter is a mere RX 580 which can be had for ~$200 in the PC space, sans Thunderbolt 3. Not that impressive. The high end is different which includes a dual GPU setup featuring AMD's Infinity Fabric links between them. That is unique with not PC equivalent from AMD. nVidia does offer nvLink on Quadros but to be about to create a quad GPU setup, one would have to get the faster $100K DGX-1 workstation system. So one could argue that Apple is coming in cheaper here for this very high end niche.
Apple's Afterburner card is simply a giant FPGA which MacOS has the hooks to use for video decoding. Such cards are available on the PC side with prices roughly comparable. The difference would be in the software support which goes to Apple's advantage controlling the whole stack for video editing.
Thats pretty much what Lian Li used to do, and they still do though the have recently been making a push with their own tempered glass + GRB offerings to the market.
They are still making full anodized AL cases and I'm sure they would/will turn their focus there again when/if people start buying them.
I purchased the Lian-Li O11 Dynamic and it has been a massive disappointment. The pegs they glue to the Tempered glass panels to hold them in place break off with ease.. In the PC World, even the Premium brands, are selling some extremely compromised crap.
@ian If you want to build a Mac Pro cheese grater to beat the real one - check out the Dune Pro case. Linus tech tips and a couple of others have reviewed them - surprisingly good thermals, accoustics, build quality, and way closer to the real thing. Even has the cnc milled aluminium front panel.
A circa 1994 Intel server case I bought from Apple had the exact same cheese board grater. Albeit, double doors wide and big as a file cabinet under desk.
Apple copied that ventilated design enlarging the size of its openings then adding a chromium upgrade to the case finish...welcome to 2019 from 1994 techies
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FreckledTrout - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
At least that is not much cheddar. :) Could.... not..... resist.The brand should be Cheeseteks or if we want to continue the play on words by carrying out there Greek Ph replacement of F in Phanteks we could call it Chezteks.
Kevin G - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
The price is pretty Gouda.quiksilvr - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
And you can build a music editing rig to create some nice R 'n' Brie music.hallstein - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Absolutely. Emmental all my PC building friends about this case.quadibloc - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
But you're comparing the price of a case to that of a whole computer! That's unfair to Apple!I've heard the claim that the specs of the Mac Pro are so high that a similarly-equipped PC would be nearly as expensive - if one could even find one. While that may be true, of course, that misses the point, which was that open, upgradeable PC systems are available at much lower prices, which highlights how limited choices are in the Mac world.
extide - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
It's not true. You can go configure a workstation from Dell/Lenovo/HP with equivalent specs for less, and you could build one yourself for even cheaper than that.carbonium - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
And you’ll end up with a crappy discounted virus prone inferior system that’s insecure and running Windows 10 instead of macOS. I have a bunch of Mac’s that I make money on and PC’s to play video games with.nico_mach - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
I, too, have a gaming PC and an MBA and I've never thought MacOS was better than Windows 10. It was certainly better than Windows around the time of Vista, XP. That was a long time ago now, and IOS is as bloated and confusing as Windows 8.But, sure, they have less glitches than the alternatives. Single vendor and all that.
sing_electric - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
100% agree with this. I've got a MacBook Pro and a Windows workstation, and I think Windows 10 is a better productivity OS in a lot of ways, and I now feel that on equivalent hardware, Windows 10 just **feels** snappier.Having said that, it's not all life in paradise - Microsoft's QA with Windows 10 updates has been pretty abysmal over the past few years.
Goedel - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Or you could end up with a nice Linux system with plenty of open-source software to choose from, and zero MicroSoft tax.29a - Thursday, January 16, 2020 - link
I've been using Windows daily for over 25 years and have never got even one virus.Korguz - Friday, January 17, 2020 - link
same here...otonieru - Friday, January 17, 2020 - link
Only stupid user infected by virus, malware and spamware.Korguz - Friday, January 17, 2020 - link
" And you’ll end up with a crappy discounted virus prone inferior system that’s insecure and running Windows 10 instead of macOS" yea sure.. and on average, that would cost A LOT more then a non apple made hardware.. no thanks.. i refuse to pay the apple tax. IF one is smart, and cautious where one goes, the " virus prone interior system " as you call it.. is a moot point. part of the reason why apple isnt targeted by viruses, malware and such, is because of the market share apple has, WHY would one who makes viruses, malware and such go after a market that is only say 40% of the user base, when more damage and headaches could be caused by going after 60% of the market ? if the market share was the other way.. i think it would be different....Karmena - Friday, January 24, 2020 - link
40% sure there would be viruses and malware etc. MacOS does not command that much of the market. Try 16% according to this: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop...Also, it is nearing the threshold where it could become interesting.
Zanthroa - Tuesday, May 19, 2020 - link
HMMMMM, Overpriced Mac with 1 or 2 generations old hardware for work or a much cheaper windows based PC that will outperform the mac (Even as a hackintosh mac!) Wow!!!! how about using that mac for your games? Just like Gus here?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzRrgZUnbFY
Have fun fraggin!
close - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
True. People keep laughing at the $35000 Mac Pro because they are blissfully unaware that it's a completely different beast from the $600 PCs that they buy in Walmart. $18000 worth of RAM! Shocking! Until you realize it's marginally more expensive than the cheapest similar modules available on eBay. Or the $7500 Xeon CPU.Building a Mac Pro equivlent will be 10% cheaper at best but probably with caveats that will cost you more than that.
I find these clone-components the pinnacle of kitsch. Even worse than the unicorn-vomit-LEDs that adorn every "respectable" PC nowadays. You're screaming "I actually wanted that but couldn't get it".
Operandi - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
Yeah, this is the most tasteless nonsensical thing I've seen in awhile. Trying to be a Mac Pro ripoff while also cashing in on the RGB tempered glass trend; this thing has a real identity crisis going on for sure.Also, random fun fact there is Dune Pro which is a pretty legit Mac Pro copy. It still demonstrates 0 originality in its design so it dosn't win many points for me but the build quality is there.
tipoo - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
I had a bet when I saw the Dune Pro for the first time that it would cost less than the wheels on the Mac Pro.I was right, almost by double.
kaidenshi - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
> Dune ProMy first thought upon seeing this is how eBay will soon be filled with "Mac Pro" computers at 1/10th Apple's retail price, and when you get it you find it's the Dune Pro case with a basic $200 i3 build and a Hackintosh version of macOS installed on a spinning hard drive.
M O B - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
You should really do some comparison shopping. Apple charges a 300% markup on their RAM upgrades, and similar markups on their SSDs. Thats not "marginally more expensive."Hopefully we don't even need to get into the fact that a 32-core Threadripper build stomps all over the MacPro while also costing far, far less money.
Want MacOS though? Then a 4.4GHz i9-10980XE beats the 28-core in pure CPU performance, plus some X299 boards have started adding support for RDIMMs in case you really need 1TB of RAM (granted, ECC is disabled thanks to Intel).
diehardmacfan - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
Please let me know if you know where to get 2933mhz 128GB LRDIMM's for $520.RSAUser - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
Check my memory dot net, they usually link to good prices, around the 1290 dollar mark for 128Gb 2933MHz currently.close - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Apple charged ~$25000 for that RAM if I remember correctly (12 modules, 1.5TB). You can get them of eBay at ~$16000 but let's be totally honest here, if you drop $16K on RAM you're not necessarily in the market for systems built from the bargain bin. Same for the $7K CPU which Intel sells for $4.5K.But for people like @M O B they'll just install 192 x 8GB modules of RAM for the same effect, and 6-8 GeForce 2080s instead of the $10k dual Radeon Pro Vega II Duo. And as many i3s as you can cram on the motherboard (40 should do it). ECC can be done by hand anyway.
Yes, at the very high end you may save even $15k by building something similar yourself (with more or less all the features) but you could probably do the same building your own fridge from parts. The package in this case is worth more than the sum of the parts.
Dug - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
So much wrong with this comment. Not sure where to start.Zizy - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Typically one would start at the beginning. Not sure what is so difficult here. Let me help you:1. I can't be bothered to check, you can probably find one RAM upgrade where it is merely 50% more expensive than buying sticks on the market. 50% almost counts as marginally more expensive. Alternatively, point out that people buy from Dell/HP/Lenovo/… where markups are similar.
2. You can pick AVX 512 or memory intense workloads. STH likely has some suitable benchmarks for your purpose. Just don't make a mistake of looking at 1P EPYC.
3. Maybe point out warranty/support as he pointed out ECC already.
GreenReaper - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
So... it's marginally marginal? Or are we just talking about it being Apple's margin?AshlayW - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Not really. Apple's markups are huge; and Threadripper does indeed crush the Xeon W. I'm just not so sure about the 10980XE beating the 28-core.airdrifting - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
What fking weed are you smoking? Going from 32GB to 96GB, Apple is charging $1000 more for $64GB RAM. 64GB DDR4 RAM, ECC or not, does not cost $1000. And $3000 for 160GB RAM, are you sure? Also there is the $7000 28-Core Xeon that gets slapped around by a $2000 Threadripper, and which fking 2TB SSD cost $800?AshlayW - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
No, hon, most high-end PC owners are fully aware of how overpriced Macs are. Apple unfortunately has a zealous fanbase of loyal thralls, uh, I mean "fans" that think the "Premium brand" is worth that money. If I had 35K to spend on a PC, custom built; it would absolutely take the biggest dump on that Xeon-W system. I'm thinking a 3990X system, you get me - $7500 on that Xeon is already a huge rip-off. And; 10% at 35K is 3500 USD, are you saying that is not a lot of money? And what caveats are you talking about? Not being able to build your PC properly? Speak for yourself not for everyone else.Apple/Intel fanboys are the worst; because they genuinely belive their favourite company's products are worth the ridiculous markup. But hey; it's your money, bud.
And not all PC owners love the RGB crap.
close - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
@AshlayW: "No, hon," Unless you're the one I'm bending over a desk I'm not your hon."most high-end PC owners are fully aware " Most are fully aware of nothing. Even on a site like AT 99% of commenters are ignorant asses who have to start a comment with "no, hon" to compensate for the rest of the crap they'll spill.
You start off by saying that *Apple* is overpriced but then go on to compare 2 CPU prices coming from you know... not Apple.
Then you tell me about the 3990X which, as great of a processor as it may be, won't be the first pick for people wanting 1.5TB of RAM.
You're obviously not in the market for anything like that but you're smart enough to think all of those people dishing tens of thousands must be idiots. Hon. I think somewhere there must be a cave with an endless supply of you people, smartest people around thinking that if they read a review they know more than the professionals actually choosing to spend real money on the gear.
How about you run along and show me a workstation with the same specs and significantly lower price actually available on sale. Hon.
Jimbo Jones - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
People that "require" more than 1 TB of RAM for a workstation are going to be very few and far between. The people that could financially benefit from being able to render at more than twice the speed at half the CPU price will be, well, almost everyone ... just saying. If one actually does need more RAM than 1TB- I just priced out an Epyc rig with 2TB of RAM and more cores, for a similar price to the 1.5 TB 28 core MAC Pro.The Mac pro is a tough sell to anyone at its price but the most hardened fans.
Might want to dial that inner fanboy down a little ... its beginning to show.
sing_electric - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Well, if you're buying a $35k computer you'd better make sure that the performance meets your needs for your specific workflow(s). The Mac Pro is certainly a great computer for certain use cases, but configuring a Windows workstation to be as close to a component-for-component match to the Mac Pro as possible misses the point that, in the end, there's a lot of people for whom Apple's offerings (5 different Xeon W processors and 5 different AMD GPUs) doesn't make a ton of sense from a performance perspective.tipoo - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
The upgrade models do get comparable to Dell/HP/everyone workstations, once you truly match up with Xeon Ws, pro graphics, and oodles of ECC RAM. However the base model is perhaps the worst value, 6K for 8 cores, a 580X, and 256GB of storage is handily beaten.PixyMisa - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
Except no-one would use a Xeon W when Threadripper is available.Korguz - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
but.. you could be comparing this to epyc as well....close - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Yeah, I think they meant EPYC since the if you want anything comparable to this when it comes to RAM. Haven't seen any TR MoBo with more than 8 RAM slots. Not so easy to find even EPYC boards for 1.5TB of RAM.Dug - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
Except everyone that needs extreme high bandwidth system. Here's a copy and paste of some highlights.four Thunderbolt 3 ports, two USB-A ports, and two 10Gb Ethernet ports.Connect up to 12 4K displays or up to six Pro Display XDRs play back up to six streams of 8K footage simultaneously at 29.97 fps in Final Cut Pro X, 4K footage in the same app, you can play back up to 23 streams of ProRes RAW video at 29.97 fps.
Two mpx modules give 56.6 teraflops and 1TB/s memory bandwidth each.
RSAUser - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
Are you Trying to argue against the thread ripper? The one with PCIe 4 support?Korguz - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
or just pick up a epyc rome....AshlayW - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
You are aware that the latest TR has 64 lanes of PCI-E 4.0, right?close - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Are there many TR motherboards with support for 1.5TB or RAM? Can I point you to my earlier statement about ignorance and what "most high end PC users already know"? This isn't the high end PC your mother buys you, it's a workstation and it fulfills certain requirements. If it's not for you carry on.I can assure you the professionals who spend $50k on this have thought about it for far longer than the 40s it took you to google the price of a Threadripper and victoriously proclaim yourself "smart".
Between the CAPEX and OPEX they are better off buying this than scouring eBay for deals because they save a few thousands at purchase. But you already gave away the understanding you had when you started talking about "high end PC users". I bet you have never met anyone who actually needed something like this but you already know what's better for them. Hon ;).
TEAMSWITCHER - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
The world has already changed... The CPU isn't the center of the computing universe anymore. Apple is focusing more on the performance of GPUs and dedicated hardware like their new Afterburner card to encode/decode ProRes Raw video. The closest thing in the PC World is a RedRocket card that sells for over $6500 without a PC. When looking at high-end video editing workstations, Total Cost Of Ownership is what really matters. And here, the MacPro with an Afterburner card is a real bargain.Zizy - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
I don't think anyone actually pays PC vendors their list price. I doubt Apple discounts as much.Zizy - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Yup, comparison should be a 6k cheese grater to the 60 one - the entry price for both. You pay 50k for extra heat, but it doesn't make sense to compare that to a completely cold grater.Kevin G - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Yes and no.Can faster consumer systems be build for less than the Mac Pro's starting configuration? Most certainly less but the delta rapidly decreases as performance climbs. Being able to scale up to where the Mac Pro can climb is often overlooked as everyone focuses on the baseline.
The usage of Xeon W's help normalize the price a bit as those are expensive to begin with.
Where Apple misstepped is with the motherboard. That thing has to be expensive to build as there are memory slots on the underside and uses several expensive PCIe bridge chips. There really is no equivelant to what Apple is doing here. However server boards have gone up in price as CPUs have included more memory channels and IO.
GPU offerings are also interesting. The low end starter is a mere RX 580 which can be had for ~$200 in the PC space, sans Thunderbolt 3. Not that impressive. The high end is different which includes a dual GPU setup featuring AMD's Infinity Fabric links between them. That is unique with not PC equivalent from AMD. nVidia does offer nvLink on Quadros but to be about to create a quad GPU setup, one would have to get the faster $100K DGX-1 workstation system. So one could argue that Apple is coming in cheaper here for this very high end niche.
Apple's Afterburner card is simply a giant FPGA which MacOS has the hooks to use for video decoding. Such cards are available on the PC side with prices roughly comparable. The difference would be in the software support which goes to Apple's advantage controlling the whole stack for video editing.
thunderbird32 - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
And of course they've added a window to it. Is it so much to ask to have stylish PC cases without windows (other than Fractal Design)?Operandi - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
Thats pretty much what Lian Li used to do, and they still do though the have recently been making a push with their own tempered glass + GRB offerings to the market.They are still making full anodized AL cases and I'm sure they would/will turn their focus there again when/if people start buying them.
TEAMSWITCHER - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
I purchased the Lian-Li O11 Dynamic and it has been a massive disappointment. The pegs they glue to the Tempered glass panels to hold them in place break off with ease.. In the PC World, even the Premium brands, are selling some extremely compromised crap.lazarpandar - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
Honestly I think that's just funny enough to sell. Hell I'd buy one.baka_toroi - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
Those cases make me feel sooooo uneasy. What's going on lately with Apple and its trypophobic releases?808Hilo - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
I thought no you are on to something.Awful - Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - link
@ian If you want to build a Mac Pro cheese grater to beat the real one - check out the Dune Pro case. Linus tech tips and a couple of others have reviewed them - surprisingly good thermals, accoustics, build quality, and way closer to the real thing. Even has the cnc milled aluminium front panel.Koenig168 - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
This is in really bad taste. What next, people building Hackintoshes for a fraction what the fruit charges for the real thing?? Preposterous! :)TEAMSWITCHER - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Hackintosh's are not Macs. Never have been, never will be.Kevin G - Thursday, January 16, 2020 - link
Oh, they certainly have been back when Apple permitted Mac clones and then getting OS X running on them... but that has been awhile.deil - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
linus did. 32 core ryzen 2 TB of ram, 3 titans and 1500 or 2000W PSU, water cooled with custom loop.Jimbo Jones - Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - link
Do you have a link / source for that? I was under the impression TR only supported 1TB of RAM.AsParallel - Thursday, January 16, 2020 - link
My money, shut up and take it.rr6013 - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
A circa 1994 Intel server case I bought from Apple had the exact same cheese board grater. Albeit, double doors wide and big as a file cabinet under desk.Apple copied that ventilated design enlarging the size of its openings then adding a chromium upgrade to the case finish...welcome to 2019 from 1994 techies