I really wonder why Apple didn't outright buy the IP from them. Possibly to avoid the impression that they intentionally tanked their value in a bid to acquire?
There's zero material evidence that Apple ever left them. All those claims were scrubbed by both companies as it never happened. Either Apple's custom GPU failed, or it simply never even existed.
Given that making a custom GPU architecture from scratch in 2020 without coming into conflict with a bazillion patents is entirely impossible, I don't think Apple ever went far in exploring _fully_ custom GPUs. Heavily customized Imagination tech is probably how it's been since this happened, and will continue to be the order of the day for the foreseeable future.
Market reaction caused the valuation of IMG to tank anyway. Shareholders panic and not more clarity from Apple I guess. But seeing this again, Apple could've bagged them for half a billion anyway.
Apple tried to forcefully appropriate IP for below fair cost as it did with Dialog (for which it flat out cut orders without having another supplier lined up), and Qualcomm. Imagination didn't have the resources nor shareholder will to fight this action so it initially folded under the pressure (Qualcomm likely spent the better part of a billion dollars on lawyers fighting Apple). It's likely that behind the scenes, Imagination's well resourced new owners (Canyon Bridge) threatened an IP lawsuit that they were likely to win.
Or, may be Apple will simply continue to use small amount of PowerVR tech in the future. There are lots of product still using A10 or older SoC, such as HomePod for example. You cant have those shipped and not pay any royalty.
Given that Apple claimed in the past they would totally wind down their usage of Imagination IP, I think their bluff was once again called on this one and it isn't just a case of royalties for legacy IP which could be settled for a pretty negligible amount that wouldn't entail a multi-year agreement. It's very much consistent with Apple's behavior toward other suppliers as well, throwing their weight around to attain a favorable result. Someone should appropriate their branding and start selling apple branded shoes, towels, toilet paper, and surfboards without paying them; only trouble is there aren't many companies bigger than they are in this world. Maybe Saudi-Aramco could be convinced...
Samsung may continue to use Mali in some chips, but the AMD RDNA licensing deal implies the Samsung Exynos high end will be RDNA based in the future.
Qualcomm's Adreno gfx IP is also AMD/ATI derivative, albeit likely much changed from that original IP sale (Imageon) at this point.
Huawei will likely continue with Mali in high end, unless the HiSilicon moves indicate they will no longer produce Kirin SoC's, in which case all bets are off on high end use of Mali IP.
I don’t care anymore 😊. Now I want to see the new IMG solutions in the upcoming Apple products, that they will be far better than the Qualcomm or Mali garbage around.
You're not going to see new IMG solutions in Apple products. There is clearly some IMG IP that Apple had to license for future usage. That is likely a once and done situation with Apple using that IP as it sees fit in their own custom GPUs.
Conclusion: Apple tried to force Imagination's value into the toilet so they could eat them, but they waited for too big a discount, missed their window, and came back with their head hung low because they still needed them juicy patent licenses.
I think Apple was waiting for a better price and someone else jumped in before it fell as low as Apple wanted. Or Apple was waiting for them to sell off the graphics assets apart from the rest of the company.
There's no way they were going to just not use any Imagination-patented technology. Because it wasn't actually possible, especially not in a backwards-compatible way.
First you build reasonable phones using my Tech, then you steal it form me , I go bankrupt , then you start buying patents from me (I'm still Bankrupt).
So Apple tried to buy IMG. They rejected (twice ?!?) then there was anouncement of Apple investing into custom GPU - “separate independent GPU design”. No IMG IP needed.
IMG collapses, fails to release new comercial designs, sells CISC business and itself gets bought by some chinese. Apple half a year later droms custom GPU in A11 with higher efficiency than legacy overclocked 6(or 7 ?) XT desiGn in use since A9. Then A12 launches with higher efficiency, then A13 launches with much higher efficiency yet aggain.
Imagination renews licencing with Apple with wider range of IP.
Why IMG have not said they still licence to Apple for 3 years ? Why there was not any conflict between them ? WHAT is The GPU in A11 to 13 ? Why it has so much more perf without some crazy changes to architecture ? Is it custom, IMG designed or both ? Will Apple revert to IMG A series ? How does A series compare to A13 GPU ?
We don’t know anything. Just give me that skyrym at 120 fps on my 13” iPP
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Robocaller - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Some errors I found in the article:1. ....has announced that [Apple the two companies] have signed — this needs rewording.
2. The announcement eventually [lead] to a collapse of Imagination’s stock price — incorrect verb form.
3. The short [press] one-sentence press release does tactically.... — redundant word.
Please update the article with the same.
Thanks
alphasquadron - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Okay dude, you can't tell him what to do. You're not his copy editor.lucam - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
He’s looking for a job 😂😂Teckk - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Wow, so much for Apple to go back to IMG. Unfortunate for IMG that it is in the current state due to Apple and now Apple is back at their doorstep.close - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
I really wonder why Apple didn't outright buy the IP from them. Possibly to avoid the impression that they intentionally tanked their value in a bid to acquire?Teckk - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Could be, not sure if that would have been a legal hurdle.Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
There's zero material evidence that Apple ever left them. All those claims were scrubbed by both companies as it never happened. Either Apple's custom GPU failed, or it simply never even existed.Valantar - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Given that making a custom GPU architecture from scratch in 2020 without coming into conflict with a bazillion patents is entirely impossible, I don't think Apple ever went far in exploring _fully_ custom GPUs. Heavily customized Imagination tech is probably how it's been since this happened, and will continue to be the order of the day for the foreseeable future.Teckk - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Market reaction caused the valuation of IMG to tank anyway. Shareholders panic and not more clarity from Apple I guess.But seeing this again, Apple could've bagged them for half a billion anyway.
Raqia - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Apple tried to forcefully appropriate IP for below fair cost as it did with Dialog (for which it flat out cut orders without having another supplier lined up), and Qualcomm. Imagination didn't have the resources nor shareholder will to fight this action so it initially folded under the pressure (Qualcomm likely spent the better part of a billion dollars on lawyers fighting Apple). It's likely that behind the scenes, Imagination's well resourced new owners (Canyon Bridge) threatened an IP lawsuit that they were likely to win.ksec - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Or, may be Apple will simply continue to use small amount of PowerVR tech in the future. There are lots of product still using A10 or older SoC, such as HomePod for example. You cant have those shipped and not pay any royalty.Raqia - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Given that Apple claimed in the past they would totally wind down their usage of Imagination IP, I think their bluff was once again called on this one and it isn't just a case of royalties for legacy IP which could be settled for a pretty negligible amount that wouldn't entail a multi-year agreement. It's very much consistent with Apple's behavior toward other suppliers as well, throwing their weight around to attain a favorable result. Someone should appropriate their branding and start selling apple branded shoes, towels, toilet paper, and surfboards without paying them; only trouble is there aren't many companies bigger than they are in this world. Maybe Saudi-Aramco could be convinced...danielfranklin - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Welcome to the Apple supply chain.Teckk - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Qualcomm has its own graphics and Samsung uses Mali directly I guess?soresu - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
Samsung may continue to use Mali in some chips, but the AMD RDNA licensing deal implies the Samsung Exynos high end will be RDNA based in the future.Qualcomm's Adreno gfx IP is also AMD/ATI derivative, albeit likely much changed from that original IP sale (Imageon) at this point.
Huawei will likely continue with Mali in high end, unless the HiSilicon moves indicate they will no longer produce Kirin SoC's, in which case all bets are off on high end use of Mali IP.
levizx - Friday, January 3, 2020 - link
IMG is an option now that ARM isn't reliable anymore courtesy of the Orange.lucam - Thursday, January 2, 2020 - link
This is a great news indeed.However I do think that Apple always have used some kind of IMG tech in their current GPU.
levizx - Friday, January 3, 2020 - link
No need for speculation, PVRTC is patented, so Apple is publicly exposing the evidence. The question was always how many IPs.lucam - Friday, January 3, 2020 - link
I don’t care anymore 😊. Now I want to see the new IMG solutions in the upcoming Apple products, that they will be far better than the Qualcomm or Mali garbage around.techconc - Monday, June 29, 2020 - link
You're not going to see new IMG solutions in Apple products. There is clearly some IMG IP that Apple had to license for future usage. That is likely a once and done situation with Apple using that IP as it sees fit in their own custom GPUs.Lord of the Bored - Friday, January 3, 2020 - link
Conclusion: Apple tried to force Imagination's value into the toilet so they could eat them, but they waited for too big a discount, missed their window, and came back with their head hung low because they still needed them juicy patent licenses.levizx - Friday, January 3, 2020 - link
Apple didn't even try to buy them after the collapse. You comment makes zero sense.Lord of the Bored - Saturday, January 4, 2020 - link
I think Apple was waiting for a better price and someone else jumped in before it fell as low as Apple wanted.Or Apple was waiting for them to sell off the graphics assets apart from the rest of the company.
There's no way they were going to just not use any Imagination-patented technology. Because it wasn't actually possible, especially not in a backwards-compatible way.
RaduR - Friday, January 3, 2020 - link
First you build reasonable phones using my Tech, then you steal it form me , I go bankrupt , then you start buying patents from me (I'm still Bankrupt).With this attitude I start loving Qualcomm.
s.yu - Saturday, January 4, 2020 - link
Betting everything on a single company is not sound business strategy.GC2:CS - Saturday, January 4, 2020 - link
So Apple tried to buy IMG. They rejected (twice ?!?) then there was anouncement of Apple investing into custom GPU - “separate independent GPU design”. No IMG IP needed.IMG collapses, fails to release new comercial designs, sells CISC business and itself gets bought by some chinese.
Apple half a year later droms custom GPU in A11 with higher efficiency than legacy overclocked 6(or 7 ?) XT desiGn in use since A9. Then A12 launches with higher efficiency, then A13 launches with much higher efficiency yet aggain.
Imagination renews licencing with Apple with wider range of IP.
Why IMG have not said they still licence to Apple for 3 years ?
Why there was not any conflict between them ?
WHAT is The GPU in A11 to 13 ?
Why it has so much more perf without some crazy changes to architecture ?
Is it custom, IMG designed or both ?
Will Apple revert to IMG A series ?
How does A series compare to A13 GPU ?
We don’t know anything. Just give me that skyrym at 120 fps on my 13” iPP
s.yu - Saturday, January 4, 2020 - link
A lot of questions I'd like to ask.