With only 2 10G ports, it is not suitable for a simple 10G network. At least 4 ports need to be 10G to allow a simple network with all devices having 10G. Also the price is hopeless for domestic use (an 8 port 1G switch can be purchased new for under £10) For 10G to become common in domestic use requires an 8 port switch with at least 4 10G ports for under £50 and 10G ports becoming common on PC motherboards.
Ya, the price is still pretty hopeless. It'd say it'd be a different story if this were a wifi router with 10g ports and a bunch of gaming centric options built in. Then it'd be like a lot of those "gaming" routers on the market for $300.
For most users two 10G ports is enough. For a power user, I'd want all the ports to be 10g. I went with a Microtek four 10g SFP port switch, three Intel X520-DA1, and some direct attach SFP+ cables. I would have preferred to not be on SFPs, but it was the cheapest solution at $310 all in.
If you have one 10G port going to a home server, the other to your main computer or a Wi-Fi router, and the 2.5G links going to the Internet and other devices, etc. I think it makes some sense.
Not everything needs 10G. For many things being able to access content at 250MB/sec is plenty. Especially considering most *new* devices are still 1G - although that may well change soon.
Approximately 0.0001% of the population have any use for a 2.5G port to the Internet. Apart from externalizing your storage at a ridiculous cost I don't see the use case, you can buy very big/fast local SSDs for the same money.
Which part of "One of the big reasons for why faster-than-GbE networks have not gained traction in the consumer space is due to a lack of appropriate network switches." did you not understand?
There is a chicken and egg situation here. There are at least SOME machines with native 10GbE, for example iMac Pro and the newest Mac Mini. Also anything with TB3/USB could buy an ethernet adaptor and, more significantly, anything with USB3 could buy a 2.5GbE adaptor.
Buying those adaptors has so far not made sense because of the lack of a home-appropriate switch. This device helps solve that. (Perhaps... One part of being home appropriate is small enough; a second part is not requiring a fan. This box looks like it may well have a fan, at which point noise issue become important...)
Yes, in a perfect world we'd all get free 10G ethernet switches and a unicorn in our breakfast cereal boxes. In the real world - 2.5G is still faster than 1G, and is what's most practical for many people given what I said about 2.5G adaptors hooked to USB3. - two 10G ports gives you a LOT more flexibility than the single 10G port you get in most of the marginally equivalent CONSUMER equipment (like a lot of the newest expensive 802.11ax routers)
If it costs too much for you, don't buy it. But how do you think computer economics works? This stuff starts off expensive, next year it will be half the price, three years later half again. The IMPORTANT step is that first step, the step that transitions from the enterprise to the consumer market.
@name99 : "Which part of "One of the big reasons for why faster-than-GbE networks have not gained traction in the consumer space is due to a lack of appropriate network switches." did you not understand?"
The BS/PR part? It's like saying "the reason jet engines didn't catch on in road cars is the price of JP-8 fuel". Most regular users moved from the faster wired GbE to the slower, less stable WiFi because of convenience. They don't care about 2.5G or even 10G because they don't care about cables. And very few copy stuff around the network often enough to care. You live in a bubble reading these news and assuming most people care but they don't. Which is why those prices are high - demand is low.
The funniest part is that you take one of Anton Shilov's articles as anything more that transcripts of press releases from manufacturers, complete with errors and misleading PR. Makes me suffer a lot less about for reading the rest of your no doubt valuable explanation.
I agree with this. Not much demand for wired networks in general. Majority of regular consumers want wireless everything.
For the niche market of power users, like many of us, it's a lack of network switches or product price. I don't see the situation changing anytime soon. Few of us just roll with the inconveniences and just get our 10G on, while most aren't touching it and complaining.
Still hoping and waiting for something that is more like $20-30 a port price and multigig capable. The Buffalo is just about perfect for what I'd want. I'd assume those 10GbE ports are capable of 5/2.5 speeds also. Or I should say I hope.
Running 5/10GbE between my desktop and server is perfect. That reserves a couple of 2.5GbE ports for future router/WAP use and run 1 or 2 2.5GbE port to my core switch (assuming it can do LAG, but even just 1 port). I don't need every port on my network to be 2.5GbE or faster, but I'd like a minimum of 4 ports at that speed. If I can get 2 ports at 5GbE that'd be nice too. LAG would be important, or at least nice so that I could link it to my core switch and get 2Gbps between it and the remainder of my network.
For me, I just wanted my 3 desktops to have 10G to each other. Really, only two of them needed it, but for an extra like $50, might as well make that 3rd one 10G. I download things on my main computer, then move them to my file server. I'll transfer like 2-3 TBs at a time, sometimes more. Only happens like once a month, but it'd be nice to have it finish quickly, as opposed to starting it before going to sleep.
Everything will just be connected to the internet at 1G speeds. I only have a 300 mbps connection, so I couldn't make use of 10G to the outside world, let alone 1G.
Generally the goal of switches like this is to provide a high bandwidth pipe to a highly constrained resource and then smaller pipes to multiple devices consuming it. You can connect the 10G line to a media/file server and have 4 connected PCs all consume content at 2.5G without bottlenecking the server.
That's an office setup. Most home setups are a lot more fragmented than that. Sure, some people have central servers, but other houses are just a collection of random machines of varying ages and performing varying tasks.
I see the 10G/2.5G split as relevant to that market not because of optimized connectivity to a single resource, but because of heterogenous ethernet adaptors -- the new machine(s) might be on 10G, the older ones are on 1G and could be upgraded to 2.5G.
A device like this gets you doubling your speed (1 to 2.5G) for most connections, and gets you 10G for connecting the two new fast machines together. That's good enough for a lot of houses today, and then in four or five years you can upgrade to whatever (cheaper, smaller) all-10G solution has become available.
(And if you're asking dumb questions like "how do I get a 10G internet connection?" or "why do I need 10G to connect to my WiFi?", then YOU ARE NOT IN THE MARKET FOR THIS. Not everything is about you!
Those of us who DO want connectivity like this are people who are in the business of occasionally moving large files around our homes from one machine to another, for whatever reason. If you don't do that, lucky you. You don't need to spend $350.)
I agree :) still. even a single 10GB and others 2.5G allows me to set home media server at full 1GB speed for everyone not affecting one another. I still dig on that. I hope we will see something with limited but more affordable stuff, like 5G to 8x1GB switch .... second thing is cooling, as I tried one, and it overheated.
This is awesome for a small network running a file server with an SQL database or quickbooks, where each node would have a FULL 2.5Gbps uplink to the server via a 10Gbps link.
But it's a hard sell for $200-$300 unless someone actually fits that niche.
You can get a 4 port, 10Gbit SFP+ switch for $130 right now on Amazon. 2.5G stuff needs to get cheaper before it really makes sense (and of course it will eventually).
But you have to buy optics and still have fewer ports. I think 10Gbit simple switches need to get to $25/port and 5/2.5Gbit below ~$10 to hit “expensive but do-able” for hobbyists.
For home use, stop claiming that cost is the issue. Cost is the issue for SOME home setups. But the real issue is that people have different demands for home equipment. It needs to be small. It needs to be quiet. It needs to get out the way and not make itself noticed.
THOSE requirements are what has been missing so far in this market; cost is a secondary issue.
I think cost is the primary issue. I’m not looking for 2.5g or 10g to replace every single desktop switch use case, I just want it to be feasible for anyone with a wired home to have a central switch, 2.5g WiFi APs, 10g through the walls to a few key points. I think there’s a decent market for these kinds of setups.
This buffalo switch is a desktop switch, designed to uplink you a 10g central switch. Like I said, if it were $99 I’d drop one on my desktop, but I’d still need a reasonably priced central home switch to uplink.
Well, there's your problem. That means either you have to buy a transceiver for both ends of every single link (and potentially need to run fibre if you want to go more than a couple of metres and your existing cabling is 'only' Cat 5e), or run expensive Direct Attached cables.
But that’s the point. They’re both expensive. Once you compare apples to apples and factor in transceivers or copper twinax cables the cheap SFP switches are more comparable to the 10gbaseT.
Huh? It's SFP+, as in, you can buy different modules. You can just buy a 10G SFP+ to RJ45 modules. There's no need to buy modules for both sides nor use direct attach cables. Just have modules in the switch.
As long as you network is cat-6a (or higher) and the devices have copper 10G nics, you're fine. If not, you were stuck having to upgrade everything anyways.
Please stop suggesting that people buy a SFP switch. It is *not* a solution. Just stop. The two people that have replied to you already have the reasons why your logic is flawed.
I'm tired of seeing these type of replies. Especially those that say "go on eBay and buy a switch!" -- yeah, they are 24+ port switches that are 1) physically huge and 2) noisy as an airplane.
You do realize desktop switches are garbage right?
They only really work if you only want internet to one room. Only old Enterprise 10G switches are loud and large. You can buy new prosumer 10g switches that are passively cooled with SFP+
I'd be willing to go about $150 with the understanding that in a few years it would probably be replaced with a 24 port switch with all ports at 2.5GbE or 5GbE. Today, not at near $300 when again, I'd probably be replacing it in 3-4 years.
I don't NEED 2.5GbE or faster, but I can absolutely leverage that speed and I'd like it. Just not like it and want it enough to put out about $500 between the switch and a pair of NICs (one of my server and one for my desktop) and have a little room for near term future proofing for maybe an 802.11ax router and a WAP with 2.5GbE ports.
If my total out the door cost was more like $250 (switch and two NICs)...I could probably justify that to myself between a desire for speed and the times I'd be saving maybe a minute or three waiting for some large files to finish transferring between my desktop and server. That and when I need to restore one of the machines from the other one shaving an hour or two off that process that once a year I manage to bork something and need to do that (its been 19 months since the last time...I am sure I'll screw the pooch soon).
MikroTik switch, four 10G SFP+ ports and one Gig-E port. $130 Amazon. Intel X520-DA1 10G nic. $41.16 Amazon. 10Gtek 10G SFP+ DAC cable 1 meter for $16.99 Amazon. 2 meters for $17.99. 3 meters for $20.99. 4 meters for $27.99.
That'd come out to $246.30 for the switch and being able to connect 2 computers to the switch using 1 meter cable. This is the solution I went with, but for 3 computers using 1 meter cable.
The switch situation is nowhere near as dire as you make it sound any more.
The first affordable NBase-T switch (1/2.5/5/10Gbase-T on all ports) I found, was the BUFFALO BS-MP2012 at €50/port retail in Germany including 19% VAT/sales tax.
That one was plagued by two rather noisy fans, noisy mostly because the motor speed was regulated not via voltage but timed pulses, which basically turns these fans into a vibratior: Better for reliability and dust resilience, but unsuitable for human cohabitation.
So following up on a tip from STH, I swapped the fans with Noctuas of similar size now running at constant yet inaudible speed, but that kills warranty, insurance and quite possibly yourself. The switch has been doing just fine for something like two years as my home-lab's core switch, never worse than warm to the touch.
But I recently added another recent model from NetGear, the XS508M 8-port NBase-T switch at just below €50/port (€370 total with tax) and that one is near silent from the factory: Yes it has a fan, but I have to put my ear right next to it to hear any sound: Nothing you'd notice even from arm's length.
It has siblings with higher port counts in the same chassis, but due to the higher power consumption of the PHYs, their specifications quote nigher (maximum?) noise, whereas the 8-port model had desktop office use written into its design specifications, even if it comes with a rack-mount kit.
One potentially significant advantage may be that one of the ports is dual 1/10Gbase-T and SFP+ for both direct connect or optical uplinks.
I can fully recommend that as a replacement for a similar unmanaged Gbit desktop switch.
€50/port is still massively expensive. As such, yes, the switch situation is indeed still dire. Also, 5-8-port switches are dramatically more useful than >=16-port switches. 10GbE shouldn't cost 10x GbE, let alone 20x like you're describing. And needing to swap out fans and void the warranty makes your solution a no-go for even most enthusiasts. Even if a switch is unlikely to fail, I really wouldn't want to void the warranty on a €600 piece of essential home infrastructure...
His actual final solution was to suggest the Netgear ProSAFE XS500M line, which was silent ouf ot the box. Its the switch (8 port variant) I am considering myself to connect key equipment up to faster network, while leaving my HP Gbit switch up for less important devices.
I have paid €1000 per NIC and per switch port for 10Gbit some years ago and €500 for 100Gbit on the corporate side of things early last year, so with €50 per port, most 2.5 and 5Gbit NICs are rather similar and the 10Gbit Aquantia still more expensive.
Gbit Ethernet is ridiculously cheap these days, yet again I remember paying three digits for 10 and 100Mbit *hubs*: It's obviously a matter of perspective and impatience.
Please note, that I am recommending the NetGear XS508M which is only 8 ports and near silent without any hacking, not the Buffalo 12port I got first (I guess I should have kept the anecdote shorter).
To translate: your perspective stems from a realm entirely unrelated to the needs and resources of >99% of most consumers. I understand that the current cheapness of GbE is due to its age, but that's hardly an argument for a >10x price delta. The XS508M is still 4000NOK (~400 €, including 25% VAT), which is at least twice what an 8-port unmanaged switch ought to cost. Of course it's also a full 8x10Gbps, which is on the high end of usefulness - cut that down to 4x 10GbE + 4x 2.5GbE and you'd have an equally useful switch that would hopefully cost half or less. Still, it's past time these nGbE switches start coming down in price. Adoption will never happen unless switches are relatively affordable, and with current storage media and the proliferation of networked storage the use cases for these are plentiful.
How fast are the latest wireless routers? I mean what is the fastest speed you can get from one laptop to another in the same room, assuming both have fast ssds, and doing a large sequential file transfer?
Garbage usually. 5 ghz routers usually make claims of hitting like 2.1 gbps and such, but obviously that's some crazy fake lab crap. Not the real world. None of them can hit 1 gbps. I think most live in the 500-750 mbps range.
You can easily max out the speeds, even if you could reach their magical 2.1 gbps speed.
Crazy price. The MS510TX has been available at $210 for half of the year. One copper + fiber 10G, dual 5G, dual 2.5G, and quad gigabit for a total of 10 ports.
This is WAY too expensive. It's not even close to being a unique or interesting switch. I keep going on about it, but there's a better product that's been on the market for a long time: Netgear MS510TX - 2x 10Gb (one copper, one SFP), 2x 5Gb, 2x 2.5Gb and 4x 1Gb. The ONLY downside is that it isn't fanless :( But it's only $269 on Amazon.com right now...
It's still the best I've found. A fanless model with beefy heatsinks inside and maybe another 10Gb copper port would be basically perfect.
Copper 10G sucks power. For 99.99% of homes, and 99% of 'enthusiast' homes 2.5G is plenty and with the new adapters coming along (Intel, Realtek and others) can be done close to the power budget of gigabit. Unless you're throwing hundreds of gigs between all SSD NAS boxes, 2.5G will max out spinning rust (300+MB/s) - and if you do have all SSD NAS boxes, SFP+ based 10G is a far better idea. Miktotek will sell you fanless 4 and 8 port 10G switches for not much over £100/£200 respectively.
Not a grat equivelant. The buffalo is silent, that MicroTik has 4 loud little fans. Servethehome measures 41.7 DBa at idle. The MicroTik is onyl good if you need it in a server closet, or are willing to modify it to use soething like 120MM fans in a modded case. And its going for $600 right now, a far cry from the $330 the buffalo commands.
How is a netgeat loaded with old timey 1Gb ports an equivelant? If it had 8 2.5 Gb ports you'd have a point, but withonly 2 10Gb ports the netgear is fairly worthless un;less you have a single PC and single server/NAS to connect. And the netgear is now well known for its reliability....
"The switch can automatically prioritize 10 GbE connectivity and also supports loop detection to optimize a network’s configuration and performance."
This makes it sound like the switch can't service all ports at full bandwidth at the same time. Is that what they're saying here? That to get the full 10GbE speeds it has to throttle some of the 2.5GbE traffic?
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Duncan Macdonald - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
With only 2 10G ports, it is not suitable for a simple 10G network. At least 4 ports need to be 10G to allow a simple network with all devices having 10G. Also the price is hopeless for domestic use (an 8 port 1G switch can be purchased new for under £10)For 10G to become common in domestic use requires an 8 port switch with at least 4 10G ports for under £50 and 10G ports becoming common on PC motherboards.
khanikun - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Ya, the price is still pretty hopeless. It'd say it'd be a different story if this were a wifi router with 10g ports and a bunch of gaming centric options built in. Then it'd be like a lot of those "gaming" routers on the market for $300.For most users two 10G ports is enough. For a power user, I'd want all the ports to be 10g. I went with a Microtek four 10g SFP port switch, three Intel X520-DA1, and some direct attach SFP+ cables. I would have preferred to not be on SFPs, but it was the cheapest solution at $310 all in.
GreenReaper - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
If you have one 10G port going to a home server, the other to your main computer or a Wi-Fi router, and the 2.5G links going to the Internet and other devices, etc. I think it makes some sense.Not everything needs 10G. For many things being able to access content at 250MB/sec is plenty. Especially considering most *new* devices are still 1G - although that may well change soon.
Kjella - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
Approximately 0.0001% of the population have any use for a 2.5G port to the Internet. Apart from externalizing your storage at a ridiculous cost I don't see the use case, you can buy very big/fast local SSDs for the same money.name99 - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
Which part of "One of the big reasons for why faster-than-GbE networks have not gained traction in the consumer space is due to a lack of appropriate network switches." did you not understand?There is a chicken and egg situation here.
There are at least SOME machines with native 10GbE, for example iMac Pro and the newest Mac Mini. Also anything with TB3/USB could buy an ethernet adaptor and, more significantly, anything with USB3 could buy a 2.5GbE adaptor.
Buying those adaptors has so far not made sense because of the lack of a home-appropriate switch. This device helps solve that. (Perhaps... One part of being home appropriate is small enough; a second part is not requiring a fan. This box looks like it may well have a fan, at which point noise issue become important...)
Yes, in a perfect world we'd all get free 10G ethernet switches and a unicorn in our breakfast cereal boxes. In the real world
- 2.5G is still faster than 1G, and is what's most practical for many people given what I said about 2.5G adaptors hooked to USB3.
- two 10G ports gives you a LOT more flexibility than the single 10G port you get in most of the marginally equivalent CONSUMER equipment (like a lot of the newest expensive 802.11ax routers)
If it costs too much for you, don't buy it. But how do you think computer economics works? This stuff starts off expensive, next year it will be half the price, three years later half again.
The IMPORTANT step is that first step, the step that transitions from the enterprise to the consumer market.
close - Sunday, November 17, 2019 - link
@name99 : "Which part of "One of the big reasons for why faster-than-GbE networks have not gained traction in the consumer space is due to a lack of appropriate network switches." did you not understand?"The BS/PR part? It's like saying "the reason jet engines didn't catch on in road cars is the price of JP-8 fuel". Most regular users moved from the faster wired GbE to the slower, less stable WiFi because of convenience. They don't care about 2.5G or even 10G because they don't care about cables. And very few copy stuff around the network often enough to care. You live in a bubble reading these news and assuming most people care but they don't. Which is why those prices are high - demand is low.
The funniest part is that you take one of Anton Shilov's articles as anything more that transcripts of press releases from manufacturers, complete with errors and misleading PR. Makes me suffer a lot less about for reading the rest of your no doubt valuable explanation.
khanikun - Monday, November 18, 2019 - link
I agree with this. Not much demand for wired networks in general. Majority of regular consumers want wireless everything.For the niche market of power users, like many of us, it's a lack of network switches or product price. I don't see the situation changing anytime soon. Few of us just roll with the inconveniences and just get our 10G on, while most aren't touching it and complaining.
azazel1024 - Friday, November 15, 2019 - link
Sure some sense, but not at that price. Maybe if the street price is significantly lower.Netgear has their 10 port multigig router. $269 street price that is sometimes $20-40 less.
1 10GbE port, 1 10Gb SFP+ port, 2 2.5GbE ports and 2 5GbE ports. 5 regular GbE ports.
Not quite equivalent sure, but a little cheaper.
Still hoping and waiting for something that is more like $20-30 a port price and multigig capable. The Buffalo is just about perfect for what I'd want. I'd assume those 10GbE ports are capable of 5/2.5 speeds also. Or I should say I hope.
Running 5/10GbE between my desktop and server is perfect. That reserves a couple of 2.5GbE ports for future router/WAP use and run 1 or 2 2.5GbE port to my core switch (assuming it can do LAG, but even just 1 port). I don't need every port on my network to be 2.5GbE or faster, but I'd like a minimum of 4 ports at that speed. If I can get 2 ports at 5GbE that'd be nice too. LAG would be important, or at least nice so that I could link it to my core switch and get 2Gbps between it and the remainder of my network.
khanikun - Monday, November 18, 2019 - link
For me, I just wanted my 3 desktops to have 10G to each other. Really, only two of them needed it, but for an extra like $50, might as well make that 3rd one 10G. I download things on my main computer, then move them to my file server. I'll transfer like 2-3 TBs at a time, sometimes more. Only happens like once a month, but it'd be nice to have it finish quickly, as opposed to starting it before going to sleep.Everything will just be connected to the internet at 1G speeds. I only have a 300 mbps connection, so I couldn't make use of 10G to the outside world, let alone 1G.
inighthawki - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Generally the goal of switches like this is to provide a high bandwidth pipe to a highly constrained resource and then smaller pipes to multiple devices consuming it. You can connect the 10G line to a media/file server and have 4 connected PCs all consume content at 2.5G without bottlenecking the server.name99 - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
That's an office setup. Most home setups are a lot more fragmented than that.Sure, some people have central servers, but other houses are just a collection of random machines of varying ages and performing varying tasks.
I see the 10G/2.5G split as relevant to that market not because of optimized connectivity to a single resource, but because of heterogenous ethernet adaptors -- the new machine(s) might be on 10G, the older ones are on 1G and could be upgraded to 2.5G.
A device like this gets you doubling your speed (1 to 2.5G) for most connections, and gets you 10G for connecting the two new fast machines together. That's good enough for a lot of houses today, and then in four or five years you can upgrade to whatever (cheaper, smaller) all-10G solution has become available.
(And if you're asking dumb questions like "how do I get a 10G internet connection?" or "why do I need 10G to connect to my WiFi?", then YOU ARE NOT IN THE MARKET FOR THIS.
Not everything is about you!
Those of us who DO want connectivity like this are people who are in the business of occasionally moving large files around our homes from one machine to another, for whatever reason. If you don't do that, lucky you. You don't need to spend $350.)
deil - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
I agree :) still. even a single 10GB and others 2.5G allows me to set home media server at full 1GB speed for everyone not affecting one another. I still dig on that.I hope we will see something with limited but more affordable stuff, like 5G to 8x1GB switch ....
second thing is cooling, as I tried one, and it overheated.
Samus - Friday, November 15, 2019 - link
This is awesome for a small network running a file server with an SQL database or quickbooks, where each node would have a FULL 2.5Gbps uplink to the server via a 10Gbps link.But it's a hard sell for $200-$300 unless someone actually fits that niche.
sor - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
I might be willing to buy something like this for $99.saratoga4 - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
You can get a 4 port, 10Gbit SFP+ switch for $130 right now on Amazon. 2.5G stuff needs to get cheaper before it really makes sense (and of course it will eventually).sor - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
But you have to buy optics and still have fewer ports. I think 10Gbit simple switches need to get to $25/port and 5/2.5Gbit below ~$10 to hit “expensive but do-able” for hobbyists.name99 - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
For home use, stop claiming that cost is the issue.Cost is the issue for SOME home setups. But the real issue is that people have different demands for home equipment. It needs to be small. It needs to be quiet. It needs to get out the way and not make itself noticed.
THOSE requirements are what has been missing so far in this market; cost is a secondary issue.
sor - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
If you say so.I think cost is the primary issue. I’m not looking for 2.5g or 10g to replace every single desktop switch use case, I just want it to be feasible for anyone with a wired home to have a central switch, 2.5g WiFi APs, 10g through the walls to a few key points. I think there’s a decent market for these kinds of setups.
This buffalo switch is a desktop switch, designed to uplink you a 10g central switch. Like I said, if it were $99 I’d drop one on my desktop, but I’d still need a reasonably priced central home switch to uplink.
edzieba - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
"SFP+"Well, there's your problem. That means either you have to buy a transceiver for both ends of every single link (and potentially need to run fibre if you want to go more than a couple of metres and your existing cabling is 'only' Cat 5e), or run expensive Direct Attached cables.
Jorgp2 - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
Lol.Copper 10G is expensive.
Your solution to avoiding expensive copper SFP modules is to buy a switch with the additional price built in.
sor - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
But that’s the point. They’re both expensive. Once you compare apples to apples and factor in transceivers or copper twinax cables the cheap SFP switches are more comparable to the 10gbaseT.khanikun - Monday, November 18, 2019 - link
Huh? It's SFP+, as in, you can buy different modules. You can just buy a 10G SFP+ to RJ45 modules. There's no need to buy modules for both sides nor use direct attach cables. Just have modules in the switch.As long as you network is cat-6a (or higher) and the devices have copper 10G nics, you're fine. If not, you were stuck having to upgrade everything anyways.
mooninite - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
Please stop suggesting that people buy a SFP switch. It is *not* a solution. Just stop. The two people that have replied to you already have the reasons why your logic is flawed.I'm tired of seeing these type of replies. Especially those that say "go on eBay and buy a switch!" -- yeah, they are 24+ port switches that are 1) physically huge and 2) noisy as an airplane.
Jorgp2 - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
Lol.You do realize desktop switches are garbage right?
They only really work if you only want internet to one room.
Only old Enterprise 10G switches are loud and large.
You can buy new prosumer 10g switches that are passively cooled with SFP+
azazel1024 - Friday, November 15, 2019 - link
I'd be willing to go about $150 with the understanding that in a few years it would probably be replaced with a 24 port switch with all ports at 2.5GbE or 5GbE. Today, not at near $300 when again, I'd probably be replacing it in 3-4 years.I don't NEED 2.5GbE or faster, but I can absolutely leverage that speed and I'd like it. Just not like it and want it enough to put out about $500 between the switch and a pair of NICs (one of my server and one for my desktop) and have a little room for near term future proofing for maybe an 802.11ax router and a WAP with 2.5GbE ports.
If my total out the door cost was more like $250 (switch and two NICs)...I could probably justify that to myself between a desire for speed and the times I'd be saving maybe a minute or three waiting for some large files to finish transferring between my desktop and server. That and when I need to restore one of the machines from the other one shaving an hour or two off that process that once a year I manage to bork something and need to do that (its been 19 months since the last time...I am sure I'll screw the pooch soon).
khanikun - Monday, November 18, 2019 - link
MikroTik switch, four 10G SFP+ ports and one Gig-E port. $130 Amazon.Intel X520-DA1 10G nic. $41.16 Amazon.
10Gtek 10G SFP+ DAC cable 1 meter for $16.99 Amazon.
2 meters for $17.99.
3 meters for $20.99.
4 meters for $27.99.
That'd come out to $246.30 for the switch and being able to connect 2 computers to the switch using 1 meter cable. This is the solution I went with, but for 3 computers using 1 meter cable.
abufrejoval - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
The switch situation is nowhere near as dire as you make it sound any more.The first affordable NBase-T switch (1/2.5/5/10Gbase-T on all ports) I found, was the BUFFALO BS-MP2012 at €50/port retail in Germany including 19% VAT/sales tax.
That one was plagued by two rather noisy fans, noisy mostly because the motor speed was regulated not via voltage but timed pulses, which basically turns these fans into a vibratior: Better for reliability and dust resilience, but unsuitable for human cohabitation.
So following up on a tip from STH, I swapped the fans with Noctuas of similar size now running at constant yet inaudible speed, but that kills warranty, insurance and quite possibly yourself. The switch has been doing just fine for something like two years as my home-lab's core switch, never worse than warm to the touch.
But I recently added another recent model from NetGear, the XS508M 8-port NBase-T switch at just below €50/port (€370 total with tax) and that one is near silent from the factory: Yes it has a fan, but I have to put my ear right next to it to hear any sound: Nothing you'd notice even from arm's length.
It has siblings with higher port counts in the same chassis, but due to the higher power consumption of the PHYs, their specifications quote nigher (maximum?) noise, whereas the 8-port model had desktop office use written into its design specifications, even if it comes with a rack-mount kit.
One potentially significant advantage may be that one of the ports is dual 1/10Gbase-T and SFP+ for both direct connect or optical uplinks.
I can fully recommend that as a replacement for a similar unmanaged Gbit desktop switch.
Valantar - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
€50/port is still massively expensive. As such, yes, the switch situation is indeed still dire. Also, 5-8-port switches are dramatically more useful than >=16-port switches. 10GbE shouldn't cost 10x GbE, let alone 20x like you're describing. And needing to swap out fans and void the warranty makes your solution a no-go for even most enthusiasts. Even if a switch is unlikely to fail, I really wouldn't want to void the warranty on a €600 piece of essential home infrastructure...nevcairiel - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
His actual final solution was to suggest the Netgear ProSAFE XS500M line, which was silent ouf ot the box. Its the switch (8 port variant) I am considering myself to connect key equipment up to faster network, while leaving my HP Gbit switch up for less important devices.name99 - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
Still physically much larger than one would like in a home.OK in a server closet; less ideal sitting on a desk.
abufrejoval - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
I have paid €1000 per NIC and per switch port for 10Gbit some years ago and €500 for 100Gbit on the corporate side of things early last year, so with €50 per port, most 2.5 and 5Gbit NICs are rather similar and the 10Gbit Aquantia still more expensive.Gbit Ethernet is ridiculously cheap these days, yet again I remember paying three digits for 10 and 100Mbit *hubs*: It's obviously a matter of perspective and impatience.
Please note, that I am recommending the NetGear XS508M which is only 8 ports and near silent without any hacking, not the Buffalo 12port I got first (I guess I should have kept the anecdote shorter).
Valantar - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
To translate: your perspective stems from a realm entirely unrelated to the needs and resources of >99% of most consumers. I understand that the current cheapness of GbE is due to its age, but that's hardly an argument for a >10x price delta. The XS508M is still 4000NOK (~400 €, including 25% VAT), which is at least twice what an 8-port unmanaged switch ought to cost. Of course it's also a full 8x10Gbps, which is on the high end of usefulness - cut that down to 4x 10GbE + 4x 2.5GbE and you'd have an equally useful switch that would hopefully cost half or less. Still, it's past time these nGbE switches start coming down in price. Adoption will never happen unless switches are relatively affordable, and with current storage media and the proliferation of networked storage the use cases for these are plentiful.p1esk - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
How fast are the latest wireless routers? I mean what is the fastest speed you can get from one laptop to another in the same room, assuming both have fast ssds, and doing a large sequential file transfer?khanikun - Monday, November 18, 2019 - link
Garbage usually. 5 ghz routers usually make claims of hitting like 2.1 gbps and such, but obviously that's some crazy fake lab crap. Not the real world. None of them can hit 1 gbps. I think most live in the 500-750 mbps range.You can easily max out the speeds, even if you could reach their magical 2.1 gbps speed.
Kougar - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Crazy price. The MS510TX has been available at $210 for half of the year. One copper + fiber 10G, dual 5G, dual 2.5G, and quad gigabit for a total of 10 ports.yetanotherhuman - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
This is WAY too expensive. It's not even close to being a unique or interesting switch. I keep going on about it, but there's a better product that's been on the market for a long time: Netgear MS510TX - 2x 10Gb (one copper, one SFP), 2x 5Gb, 2x 2.5Gb and 4x 1Gb. The ONLY downside is that it isn't fanless :( But it's only $269 on Amazon.com right now...It's still the best I've found. A fanless model with beefy heatsinks inside and maybe another 10Gb copper port would be basically perfect.
Foeketijn - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
That's about the same price as the Buffalo BS-MP2008 Which has 8x 10Gb. Why bother with 2,5Gb.Valantar - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
This looks fantastic, just reduce the price by 50-66% and we'd be good.dontlistentome - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
Copper 10G sucks power. For 99.99% of homes, and 99% of 'enthusiast' homes 2.5G is plenty and with the new adapters coming along (Intel, Realtek and others) can be done close to the power budget of gigabit.Unless you're throwing hundreds of gigs between all SSD NAS boxes, 2.5G will max out spinning rust (300+MB/s) - and if you do have all SSD NAS boxes, SFP+ based 10G is a far better idea. Miktotek will sell you fanless 4 and 8 port 10G switches for not much over £100/£200 respectively.
James5mith - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
MicroTik has a 12 port 10Gbase-T switch for $500. 8 ports multi-GbE (1/2.5/5/10), 4 ports 10GbE (1/10).Better deal by far.
fazalmajid - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
And Ubiquiti has the US-16-XG with 12 SFP+ ports and 4 10GBaseT copper ports for $500, with single pane of glass management through UniFi.TheinsanegamerN - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Not a grat equivelant. The buffalo is silent, that MicroTik has 4 loud little fans. Servethehome measures 41.7 DBa at idle. The MicroTik is onyl good if you need it in a server closet, or are willing to modify it to use soething like 120MM fans in a modded case. And its going for $600 right now, a far cry from the $330 the buffalo commands.mooninite - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
Netgear already sells an 8 x 1GB and 2 x 1/2.5/5/10GB switch for $200. This product is DOA at that price.TheinsanegamerN - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
How is a netgeat loaded with old timey 1Gb ports an equivelant? If it had 8 2.5 Gb ports you'd have a point, but withonly 2 10Gb ports the netgear is fairly worthless un;less you have a single PC and single server/NAS to connect. And the netgear is now well known for its reliability....Mr Perfect - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
"The switch can automatically prioritize 10 GbE connectivity and also supports loop detection to optimize a network’s configuration and performance."This makes it sound like the switch can't service all ports at full bandwidth at the same time. Is that what they're saying here? That to get the full 10GbE speeds it has to throttle some of the 2.5GbE traffic?