Well, the RK3399 can certainly decode 4k video, but there's no way an edge TPU can run particularly interesting video analytics at that resolution. Not to mention the amount of RAM you'd need.
So, it seems disingenuous to claim that this thing is in any way suitable for "4k machine learning". Not in realtime, at least.
I was wondering about what future Raspberry Pis could look like in terms of ports. I guess RasPi 5 will look the same, maybe replace USB 2.0 with all USB 3.0, but there could be board changes after that. For example, could a stack of three USB Type-C ports take up the same amount of vertical space as a stack of two Type-A ports, allowing 5 or 6 ports in place of 4?
In this case (Tinker Edge R), the Type-C port has been given all the space that a Type-A would have taken up.
Other than that, it looks nice and I want to see the pricing and full specs before I dismiss it.
That is an interesting questions. Considering the amount of pins it has (24) it seems quite unlikely. I haven't even seens a double stacked USB C implementation, yet.
tbh I don’t like the direction raspis are going. They’re getting bigger and using more power. I want the smallest, cheapest linux box possible. To that end the raspi 0 is my go to. It’s slow though. My hope is that in a few years when there are nice process shrinks cheaply available they’ll move to a more power efficient/powerful processor in the raspi 0. All the bells and whistles aren’t terribly important for physical nodes given simple tasks.
Sounds like you would like the Banana Pi M2 Zero or Orange Pi Zero, they have quad core A7s like the Pi 2 but the banana is in the Pi 0 form factor for $20 and the orange is a ~50mm square for $10.
Compare the Pi3 with the Pi4. The node shrank from 40nm to 28nm, which helped efficiency, but it switched from efficiency-oriented Cortex-A53 to performance-oriented Cortex-A72. There will never be a switch like that again. If they switch to A75 or newer, they are remaining in the same lane, but with increasing performance/Watt. They could prioritize higher clocks but I doubt the power consumption will increase. Unless they go from quad-core to 6 or 8 cores...
I predict the Pi 5 will keep 4x A72 (or maybe switch to A73) cores and mainly focus on GPU/machine learning perf. Even the Pi 4 is seriously weak, in the GPU department. Still, cost constraints will keep them from being truly competitive with SoCs built on a much smaller manufacturing node.
I saw chatter on the Pi forums that suggested the VideoCore VI was here to stay. Possibly no changes to the GPU whatsoever for years. I don't know how much can be believed over there given the tight lipped team and the misleading comments made about the Pi4 coming in 2020, etc. Like you, I expected some focus on ML with Pi4 given the educational focus and ML is Big Right Now. Maybe even Google subsidized hardware. Instead, Google has set out on their own.
I expect something better than a switch to 4x A73 since if you look at Pi1 -> Pi2 -> Pi3 -> Pi4, you see significant jumps in CPU performance. If it's not +50%, there's no point. They also seem to have indicated that Pi4 will be around for a while, so maybe no Pi5 until 2022? A75 seems like the way to go and it is being fabbed on 28nm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ARMv8-...
For Pi6, I'll predict a 6-core CPU on a 14nm node. In 2024.
In the further future, they should use 3DSoC. That could make many desktops obsolete.
You're forgetting about things like cost & power. The reason I think they'll stay on A72 or A73 is that those are fast enough, for the time being, and that anything appreciably faster would probably burn a lot more die space, if not also more power.
Right now, the Pi is hurting for GPU performance, for the sake of GPU compute applications & deep learning. So, that's where I expect they'll spend any additional transistor budget.
Pi is focused on the $35 price point, to a fault. They've already said they expect to stay on the current 28 nm process node, for the next couple generations. So, don't expect them to get much faster or more power-efficient.
I'd suggest the ODROID N2, which is made on a 12 nm manufacturing process, and has correspondingly better power efficiency, as a result. You'll pay for it, though.
$300 is not too bad. If I wanted to tinker with machine learning hardware, I’d rather use a chip with decent performance. Unless there are better and cheaper products?
Although, as you say, "bells and whistles are not so important for physical nodes when performing simple tasks," but a convenient and beautiful design is also nice and comfortable. And if necessary, if you really need an expensive processor, you can contact http://maybeloan.com They help people who want to get a loan. If you would like more information, you can contact them. I hope you find this information useful.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
38 Comments
Back to Article
Kevin G - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
Does the Tinker Edge have AVB enabled on its Ethernet port? If so, that opens up some interesting audio and DSP possibilities.ToTTenTranz - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
What's "4K machine learning"?mooninite - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
It's better than 2K machine learning? Yes, the "machine learning" marketing jargon is way out of control.nandnandnand - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
Instead of 8-bit precision, it uses 4096-bit precision.skavi - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
wish i could upvote this.rahvin - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
I thought it meant the AI chip had learned to watch 4K video.mode_13h - Friday, November 15, 2019 - link
Well, the RK3399 can certainly decode 4k video, but there's no way an edge TPU can run particularly interesting video analytics at that resolution. Not to mention the amount of RAM you'd need.So, it seems disingenuous to claim that this thing is in any way suitable for "4k machine learning". Not in realtime, at least.
Demios - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
Probably what it sounds like, unless you're just being pedantic.Wrong_again - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
These look pricey because they're fancy.I may not have to prepare a spot next to my dormant raspberry pi's.
nandnandnand - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
I was wondering about what future Raspberry Pis could look like in terms of ports. I guess RasPi 5 will look the same, maybe replace USB 2.0 with all USB 3.0, but there could be board changes after that. For example, could a stack of three USB Type-C ports take up the same amount of vertical space as a stack of two Type-A ports, allowing 5 or 6 ports in place of 4?In this case (Tinker Edge R), the Type-C port has been given all the space that a Type-A would have taken up.
Other than that, it looks nice and I want to see the pricing and full specs before I dismiss it.
Death666Angel - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
That is an interesting questions. Considering the amount of pins it has (24) it seems quite unlikely. I haven't even seens a double stacked USB C implementation, yet.willis936 - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
tbh I don’t like the direction raspis are going. They’re getting bigger and using more power. I want the smallest, cheapest linux box possible. To that end the raspi 0 is my go to. It’s slow though. My hope is that in a few years when there are nice process shrinks cheaply available they’ll move to a more power efficient/powerful processor in the raspi 0. All the bells and whistles aren’t terribly important for physical nodes given simple tasks.notashill - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Sounds like you would like the Banana Pi M2 Zero or Orange Pi Zero, they have quad core A7s like the Pi 2 but the banana is in the Pi 0 form factor for $20 and the orange is a ~50mm square for $10.nandnandnand - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Compare the Pi3 with the Pi4. The node shrank from 40nm to 28nm, which helped efficiency, but it switched from efficiency-oriented Cortex-A53 to performance-oriented Cortex-A72. There will never be a switch like that again. If they switch to A75 or newer, they are remaining in the same lane, but with increasing performance/Watt. They could prioritize higher clocks but I doubt the power consumption will increase. Unless they go from quad-core to 6 or 8 cores...mode_13h - Friday, November 15, 2019 - link
I predict the Pi 5 will keep 4x A72 (or maybe switch to A73) cores and mainly focus on GPU/machine learning perf. Even the Pi 4 is seriously weak, in the GPU department. Still, cost constraints will keep them from being truly competitive with SoCs built on a much smaller manufacturing node.nandnandnand - Friday, November 15, 2019 - link
I saw chatter on the Pi forums that suggested the VideoCore VI was here to stay. Possibly no changes to the GPU whatsoever for years. I don't know how much can be believed over there given the tight lipped team and the misleading comments made about the Pi4 coming in 2020, etc. Like you, I expected some focus on ML with Pi4 given the educational focus and ML is Big Right Now. Maybe even Google subsidized hardware. Instead, Google has set out on their own.I expect something better than a switch to 4x A73 since if you look at Pi1 -> Pi2 -> Pi3 -> Pi4, you see significant jumps in CPU performance. If it's not +50%, there's no point. They also seem to have indicated that Pi4 will be around for a while, so maybe no Pi5 until 2022? A75 seems like the way to go and it is being fabbed on 28nm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ARMv8-...
For Pi6, I'll predict a 6-core CPU on a 14nm node. In 2024.
In the further future, they should use 3DSoC. That could make many desktops obsolete.
mode_13h - Saturday, November 16, 2019 - link
You're forgetting about things like cost & power. The reason I think they'll stay on A72 or A73 is that those are fast enough, for the time being, and that anything appreciably faster would probably burn a lot more die space, if not also more power.Right now, the Pi is hurting for GPU performance, for the sake of GPU compute applications & deep learning. So, that's where I expect they'll spend any additional transistor budget.
mode_13h - Friday, November 15, 2019 - link
Cheap, fast, and low power? Pick any 2.Pi is focused on the $35 price point, to a fault. They've already said they expect to stay on the current 28 nm process node, for the next couple generations. So, don't expect them to get much faster or more power-efficient.
I'd suggest the ODROID N2, which is made on a 12 nm manufacturing process, and has correspondingly better power efficiency, as a result. You'll pay for it, though.
johnnycanadian - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
The R sounds damn cool until you check out a similar product based on the same SoC:https://store.vamrs.com/products/tb-rk3399pro-rock...
Hmmm. A bit dear for a tinker board.
p1esk - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
$300 is not too bad. If I wanted to tinker with machine learning hardware, I’d rather use a chip with decent performance. Unless there are better and cheaper products?mode_13h - Friday, November 15, 2019 - link
At that point, why not just step up to Nvidia's Xavier NX?olafgarten - Thursday, November 14, 2019 - link
I don't think they will charge that much, the Tinker Edge T is almost identical to the current Coral Edge TPU dev board and that is only $150.The R can't really be more expensive
kirsch - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
“ The SBCs officially support Android and Debian operating system, though nothing prevents them from running Linux or other OSes.”Debian is a Linux distribution.
Memo.Ray - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
Not only Debian is a linux distribution, Android has a linux kernel, so it is kind of a linux distribution minus GNU.PeachNCream - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
One can't reasonably expect journalists to understand technology even if they do occasionally make a laughably uninformed statement like that one.artifex - Tuesday, November 12, 2019 - link
The Edge T and Edge R boards were shown at Computex, at the end of May.mobutu - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
oh look active cooling for thesewhat a bummer
nandnandnand - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
If it's close to silent, does it matter?willis936 - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Show me a quiet 20mm fan.mode_13h - Friday, November 15, 2019 - link
Dust is one issue. Also, as bearings wear, you have more potential for noise and another point of failure.yetanotherhuman - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Aren't credit-cards supposed to be 0.76mm thick? These don't look less than a millimetre thick.ZolaIII - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
The I iMX one might just have some future thanks to Linux support, needles to say they are both huge miss regarding AI.boozed - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Yep, that'll fit in my wallet, no wucking forrieseastcoast_pete - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Minor edit: Debian is a Linux flavor/implementation. (In contrast, Android is derived from Linux, but you can't just run Linux programs on it).bananaforscale - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
"The SBCs officially support Android and Debian operating system, though nothing prevents them from running Linux or other OSes."I'll point out that Debian is Linux.
rbarak - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
Where would one put memory on these systems?nandnandnand - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
You need to jam the memory stick into the USB port.Beneetley - Tuesday, January 19, 2021 - link
Although, as you say, "bells and whistles are not so important for physical nodes when performing simple tasks," but a convenient and beautiful design is also nice and comfortable. And if necessary, if you really need an expensive processor, you can contact http://maybeloan.comThey help people who want to get a loan. If you would like more information, you can contact them. I hope you find this information useful.