I can't image these staying in very well. Might have to buy after-market nubs to keep them from falling out when exercising. They also put that as a feature on their promotional video, so yes they think they will stay in. but i dont see it.
MTA's advisory is for TWS but Airpods was out first and has the biggest share so it's easier to say than explaining TWS, like ipod was in reference to mp3 players in general.
Yes they are deluded. All do this year happened a lot of progress regarding TWS we still aren't there yet. Apple for instance delivered with Amp/DAC in this but drivers are subpar along with codec (while AAC actually ain't bad sound quality wise it is regarding latency) and transport protocol. I must admit avare or noise isolation switch is a clever & useful function. Cambridge Audio made a good sounding one's but used bad both BT chip and antenna. Edifier made a cheap budget friendly steep up with their TWS1 and while they did most things right I would still want to see larger 9/10mm more premium Foster drivers, more capable BT chip with costume LDAC implementation which would be a first really good true HiFi TWS. At least at Edifier you can put memory foom ear tips you prefer (all do it's questionable if they will fit in the box with those) & they are cheap enough that if you lose/brake them you won't cry. We did get a satisfactory BT receiver dongle & DAC also satisfactory DAP/DAC/BT mini player both with a clip & affordable enough (Shanlin UP2 & M0). So who knows me by next year someone actually deliver & truly good TWS.
There is a general point here. MOST people obviously want perfect quality; but if they have to choose, that's a lot less important than many other things, from functionality to cost to convenience.
There is a reason MP3 won out over CDs. There's a reason Pono no longer exists. There is a reason most people take photos with their cell phones not a dedicated camera.
It's fine to say that YOUR requirements regarding listeningwear are so demanding that only $1000 headphones fit the bill. But extrapolating your requirements to the rest of humanity is not going to provide useful insight into the future of mass-market tech.
Try with VE Monk + that start from 5$ (catch is those are 50 Ohm's so you will need an amp for those) or Edifier H/P 180/190 (those are reference Foster one's) which are 10~20$. I will pay a reasonable margin for a design and better quality but not for a brand or hiped product. For example I am about to buy a portable headphone DAC/amp for 50$ on black Friday which is usually 70$. It's made by little known producing company that usually works for other OEM's (TempoTec) the same product did go for 2~2.5x higher price with Hidis name slamped on it. While it is not nothing special it's better than hiped products such as DragonFly Red/Black/Cobalt that go for 2~3x more money (compared to regular price). You just need to know what you want & what suits your needs. The whole "audiophile grade" story is just an commercial. Back in late 70's and first half of 80's much better audio equipment whose produced & people back then didn't even heard the word audiophile.
Well not that I paid much care about my hearing from numerous concerts, music rehearsals, mixing, mastering and of course listening for all of this year's. I do let them rest. Hearing is something you train & I always say to people that when ever they set laudnes to what they consider ideal turn it a tad down & pay more attention to what they are listening. Surprisingly I hear from 17 to 17000 Hz even I'm 40.
Let's just say that some terrible people have been democratically elected to office by millions of people. Also, how many people voted for Brexit without realizing what it meant?
So close to a great product. Porting the canal absolutely destroys the lows and no amount of DSP can fix that. Adaptive EQ using a canal facing speaker is p cool though. They could flatten out nasty resonances with that. Finally, 200 samples per second is simply too low for ANC. It seems like the same solution they put in beats. If so it’ll be a god awful excuse for ANC.
Are any of these "true wireless" earbuds good? Someone gave me a set of galaxy buds and they're terrible. Sound quality isn't so great, as expected, but there's also a delay that makes them pretty unusable for watching video. And this is with a Samsung phone.
In TWS the source device needs to deal with two destinations instead of one (non-TWS BT headphones only need one receiver). Apple has a patent on how the signals are coordinated. Android needs to work around the patent and first gen has a terrible lag. Next gen Android chips are just rolling out now.
Video deley for audio sync which Apple used simply won't work on most things & won't work good on any long video. AAC is actually a high latency codec, APTx LL makes latency much better on other hand quality ain't all that great. Solution would be implementing a Opus decoder on TWS (mostly BT chips already in use are more than capable in handling that in flight without any problems on their general purpose core's, DSP implementation would need a lot of work) it would be a better quality of AAC or APTx HD & better latency than APTx LL. Since Android 10 Opus is core supported while by using Foobar or FFmpeg it's supposed on pretty much every platform. It's Open Source, royalty & DRM free so nothing there that's stopping manufacturers, OEM's or others to make that step.
This is false: not only are there plenty of dual-receiver BT implementations that not only work on Android, the concept itself pre-dates the airpods. It's part of the BT audio standard.
I'll second the recommendation for the WF-1000XM3. Audio quality is perceptually as good as the Shure RMCE-BT2 & SE425 combo I;d been using previously, and more convenient to store & transport. I do miss convenient on-device playback controls though, the "hold your finger down multiple times on a touchpad" scheme sucks.
So Apple made another garbage set which is overpriced to moon. Sheep will buy no matter what just Apple logo has to be pasted on it that's all you need.
It still doesn't have Zero latency or lagfree vs a basic 300kbps AptX forget the 500Kbps AptXHD and just leave the LDAC 900Kbps and the wired audio with zero latency and highest bitrate without any limits at full HiFi quality without any DRM BS or the limited lifecycle.
As the components miniaturize the battery technology gets worse add fast charge it's more accelerated. No one gives a Fuck tho, 3.5mm jack has been axed for this mediocrity which is overpriced garbage.
WTF is Adaptive EQ, Apple deems what it should sound rather than the track itself how it is recorded ? This is worse than the garbage DACs they have vs a true audio solution like dedicated SoCs from ESS or AKM in LG / Vivo phones respectively.
And a single driver unit, no matter what this cannot beat a Multi Driver / Hybrid Driver sets, and Single DD also this won't be able to beat a basic 13mm Dyn Driver in a 50USD FiiO EXII or IT01 iBasso, or the RHA MA750. Total rip off junk.
Adaptive EQ is just another DSD monstrosity that simply won't work. Much better players with very long experience didn't menage to pool it up like Creative for instance. On the other hand this time around at last they didn't use garbage DAC/AMP. They simply used new generation of those that are really emphasised to do so. For example Texas Instruments PCM510x series. Nothing bad with larger advanced single dynamic driver unit especially for something that will pley lossy codec stuff. Unfortunately Apple doesn't use really good ones. I prefer Foster RP ones. Would be ideal to use 15.6mm active one companioned with planar static one but let's face it we won't see that in TWS ever so a 9/10 nm 32 Ohm's ultra thin bio diaphragm one would be best to hope for. As it is Shanlin UP2 is the best dongle BT/DAC up to date paird with what ever you like up to mid Ohm's earphones.
Idk what you’re on about. DSP is the saving grace of audio and IEMs are ripe for it. What you hear is highly dependent on small changes in geometry and an adaptive EQ can notch out resonances. In theory, though they certainly did not go this route, if you could handle added latency you could time align with an FIR. That’s the holy grail. Technologically we’ve been here for 30 years, but us mere mortals are still waiting for it to arrive in consumer gear. The audio world is ridiculous snake oil. Any moves in the right direction are welcome to me.
I plaid with & programmed one of most popular DSP's back in the days with Creative Audigy 2 Platinum. I do know what it is & how it works,all rho there are some decent VTS plugins developed true time and it's in generally a nice way to play with a lot of thing's through time I developed a need to get back to analogue as much as possible with as less processing as possible and DSD in generally helps me a lot there (because of delta-sigma modulation) & so does the DoP - DSD conversion (of pretty much anything). Don't worry it's actually old teach. While EQ can help you to shape & correct small shots comings of analogue listening end it won't make bad ones sound wonderful. Want a good TWS? This one's have a good foundation & did analogue part quite good. https://www.thephonograph.net/whizzer-tp1-review/ Their are good for Apple and certainly better than this Apple TWS Pro's. They lack the other part of spectrum (better;BT, DAC, LDAC codec suport) but we are certainly progressing (very slowly) into right direction.
You’re right but Apple can’t succeed overcharging consumers with their garbages without help from our corrupted government who has been doing a very good job at eliminating some foreign competitors and manipulating the rest.
I wouldn’t spend $25 (probably the cost to manufacture these), let alone $249 for these garbage.
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austinsguitar - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
I can't image these staying in very well. Might have to buy after-market nubs to keep them from falling out when exercising. They also put that as a feature on their promotional video, so yes they think they will stay in. but i dont see it.PixyMisa - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
Glue.wr3zzz - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
They don't. New York city subway authority MTA had to put out an advisory because so many are dropping into the tracks.wr3zzz - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
The advisory is that neither MTA employees would, nor passengers should go try to retrieve those dropped Airpods.cycomiko - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
If they are not released until Wednesday, October 30, I suspect the MTA isn't putting out an advisory around these headphones specifically.wr3zzz - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
MTA's advisory is for TWS but Airpods was out first and has the biggest share so it's easier to say than explaining TWS, like ipod was in reference to mp3 players in general.name99 - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
You can imagine for the rest of your life.Or you can go to an Apple store and just try the damn things out...
In your imagination, are ~100 million mostly satisfied customers all deluding themselves?
scholztec - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
Imagining is less expensivescholztec - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/05/28name99 - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
You don't have to buy them to try them out...imaheadcase - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
You mean the ones that default get them and not counting those that ditch them? Imagine that!ZolaIII - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Yes they are deluded. All do this year happened a lot of progress regarding TWS we still aren't there yet. Apple for instance delivered with Amp/DAC in this but drivers are subpar along with codec (while AAC actually ain't bad sound quality wise it is regarding latency) and transport protocol. I must admit avare or noise isolation switch is a clever & useful function. Cambridge Audio made a good sounding one's but used bad both BT chip and antenna. Edifier made a cheap budget friendly steep up with their TWS1 and while they did most things right I would still want to see larger 9/10mm more premium Foster drivers, more capable BT chip with costume LDAC implementation which would be a first really good true HiFi TWS. At least at Edifier you can put memory foom ear tips you prefer (all do it's questionable if they will fit in the box with those) & they are cheap enough that if you lose/brake them you won't cry. We did get a satisfactory BT receiver dongle & DAC also satisfactory DAP/DAC/BT mini player both with a clip & affordable enough (Shanlin UP2 & M0). So who knows me by next year someone actually deliver & truly good TWS.damianrobertjones - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Eh?name99 - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Or, maybe, like me, you care a lot more about ease of use than about some supposedly perfect sound reproduction?name99 - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
There is a general point here.MOST people obviously want perfect quality; but if they have to choose, that's a lot less important than many other things, from functionality to cost to convenience.
There is a reason MP3 won out over CDs.
There's a reason Pono no longer exists.
There is a reason most people take photos with their cell phones not a dedicated camera.
It's fine to say that YOUR requirements regarding listeningwear are so demanding that only $1000 headphones fit the bill. But extrapolating your requirements to the rest of humanity is not going to provide useful insight into the future of mass-market tech.
ZolaIII - Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - link
Try with VE Monk + that start from 5$ (catch is those are 50 Ohm's so you will need an amp for those) or Edifier H/P 180/190 (those are reference Foster one's) which are 10~20$. I will pay a reasonable margin for a design and better quality but not for a brand or hiped product. For example I am about to buy a portable headphone DAC/amp for 50$ on black Friday which is usually 70$. It's made by little known producing company that usually works for other OEM's (TempoTec) the same product did go for 2~2.5x higher price with Hidis name slamped on it. While it is not nothing special it's better than hiped products such as DragonFly Red/Black/Cobalt that go for 2~3x more money (compared to regular price).You just need to know what you want & what suits your needs. The whole "audiophile grade" story is just an commercial. Back in late 70's and first half of 80's much better audio equipment whose produced & people back then didn't even heard the word audiophile.
ZolaIII - Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - link
Well not that I paid much care about my hearing from numerous concerts, music rehearsals, mixing, mastering and of course listening for all of this year's. I do let them rest. Hearing is something you train & I always say to people that when ever they set laudnes to what they consider ideal turn it a tad down & pay more attention to what they are listening. Surprisingly I hear from 17 to 17000 Hz even I'm 40.reuthermonkey1 - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
This is a pretty daft argument.Let's just say that some terrible people have been democratically elected to office by millions of people. Also, how many people voted for Brexit without realizing what it meant?
BedfordTim - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
How many people voted for Remain without realising what Brexit meant?edzieba - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
"In your imagination, are ~100 million mostly satisfied customers all deluding themselves?"Counterpoint: Beats headphones exist.
s.yu - Thursday, October 31, 2019 - link
So true...yetanotherhuman - Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - link
Almost certainlyZolaIII - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
As this is Apple you won't be able to go out & buy replacement memory foam ear plugs as they simply won't fit neither the tube nor case.willis936 - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
So close to a great product. Porting the canal absolutely destroys the lows and no amount of DSP can fix that. Adaptive EQ using a canal facing speaker is p cool though. They could flatten out nasty resonances with that. Finally, 200 samples per second is simply too low for ANC. It seems like the same solution they put in beats. If so it’ll be a god awful excuse for ANC.quorm - Monday, October 28, 2019 - link
Are any of these "true wireless" earbuds good? Someone gave me a set of galaxy buds and they're terrible. Sound quality isn't so great, as expected, but there's also a delay that makes them pretty unusable for watching video. And this is with a Samsung phone.wr3zzz - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
In TWS the source device needs to deal with two destinations instead of one (non-TWS BT headphones only need one receiver). Apple has a patent on how the signals are coordinated. Android needs to work around the patent and first gen has a terrible lag. Next gen Android chips are just rolling out now.ZolaIII - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Video deley for audio sync which Apple used simply won't work on most things & won't work good on any long video. AAC is actually a high latency codec, APTx LL makes latency much better on other hand quality ain't all that great. Solution would be implementing a Opus decoder on TWS (mostly BT chips already in use are more than capable in handling that in flight without any problems on their general purpose core's, DSP implementation would need a lot of work) it would be a better quality of AAC or APTx HD & better latency than APTx LL. Since Android 10 Opus is core supported while by using Foobar or FFmpeg it's supposed on pretty much every platform. It's Open Source, royalty & DRM free so nothing there that's stopping manufacturers, OEM's or others to make that step.edzieba - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
This is false: not only are there plenty of dual-receiver BT implementations that not only work on Android, the concept itself pre-dates the airpods. It's part of the BT audio standard.wr3zzz - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Those are not for TWS form factors.imaheadcase - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Sony wireless ones are great, i use that at work all the time. Charge lasts 4-6 hours, but charging it is super fast.edzieba - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
I'll second the recommendation for the WF-1000XM3. Audio quality is perceptually as good as the Shure RMCE-BT2 & SE425 combo I;d been using previously, and more convenient to store & transport. I do miss convenient on-device playback controls though, the "hold your finger down multiple times on a touchpad" scheme sucks.ZolaIII - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Try with Edifier TWS1. Those are inexpensive, mid centric and suport APTx LL. So pretty much good for video & vocals.Quantumz0d - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
So Apple made another garbage set which is overpriced to moon. Sheep will buy no matter what just Apple logo has to be pasted on it that's all you need.It still doesn't have Zero latency or lagfree vs a basic 300kbps AptX forget the 500Kbps AptXHD and just leave the LDAC 900Kbps and the wired audio with zero latency and highest bitrate without any limits at full HiFi quality without any DRM BS or the limited lifecycle.
As the components miniaturize the battery technology gets worse add fast charge it's more accelerated. No one gives a Fuck tho, 3.5mm jack has been axed for this mediocrity which is overpriced garbage.
Quantumz0d - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
WTF is Adaptive EQ, Apple deems what it should sound rather than the track itself how it is recorded ? This is worse than the garbage DACs they have vs a true audio solution like dedicated SoCs from ESS or AKM in LG / Vivo phones respectively.And a single driver unit, no matter what this cannot beat a Multi Driver / Hybrid Driver sets, and Single DD also this won't be able to beat a basic 13mm Dyn Driver in a 50USD FiiO EXII or IT01 iBasso, or the RHA MA750. Total rip off junk.
ZolaIII - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Adaptive EQ is just another DSD monstrosity that simply won't work. Much better players with very long experience didn't menage to pool it up like Creative for instance. On the other hand this time around at last they didn't use garbage DAC/AMP. They simply used new generation of those that are really emphasised to do so. For example Texas Instruments PCM510x series. Nothing bad with larger advanced single dynamic driver unit especially for something that will pley lossy codec stuff. Unfortunately Apple doesn't use really good ones. I prefer Foster RP ones. Would be ideal to use 15.6mm active one companioned with planar static one but let's face it we won't see that in TWS ever so a 9/10 nm 32 Ohm's ultra thin bio diaphragm one would be best to hope for. As it is Shanlin UP2 is the best dongle BT/DAC up to date paird with what ever you like up to mid Ohm's earphones.ZolaIII - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
DSP*willis936 - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Idk what you’re on about. DSP is the saving grace of audio and IEMs are ripe for it. What you hear is highly dependent on small changes in geometry and an adaptive EQ can notch out resonances. In theory, though they certainly did not go this route, if you could handle added latency you could time align with an FIR. That’s the holy grail. Technologically we’ve been here for 30 years, but us mere mortals are still waiting for it to arrive in consumer gear. The audio world is ridiculous snake oil. Any moves in the right direction are welcome to me.ZolaIII - Wednesday, October 30, 2019 - link
I plaid with & programmed one of most popular DSP's back in the days with Creative Audigy 2 Platinum. I do know what it is & how it works,all rho there are some decent VTS plugins developed true time and it's in generally a nice way to play with a lot of thing's through time I developed a need to get back to analogue as much as possible with as less processing as possible and DSD in generally helps me a lot there (because of delta-sigma modulation) & so does the DoP - DSD conversion (of pretty much anything). Don't worry it's actually old teach. While EQ can help you to shape & correct small shots comings of analogue listening end it won't make bad ones sound wonderful. Want a good TWS? This one's have a good foundation & did analogue part quite good.https://www.thephonograph.net/whizzer-tp1-review/
Their are good for Apple and certainly better than this Apple TWS Pro's. They lack the other part of spectrum (better;BT, DAC, LDAC codec suport) but we are certainly progressing (very slowly) into right direction.
sonny73n - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
You’re right but Apple can’t succeed overcharging consumers with their garbages without help from our corrupted government who has been doing a very good job at eliminating some foreign competitors and manipulating the rest.I wouldn’t spend $25 (probably the cost to manufacture these), let alone $249 for these garbage.
tygrus - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
ANC - Aagghh! another excuse for children to say they didn't hear what you said.PeachNCream - Tuesday, October 29, 2019 - link
Perhaps, but kids have been blowing off their parents for a lot longer than ANC has existed.