No, you're right, the figures quoted by this guy are wrong.
Contrast: infinite Viewing angles: Very high, just like OLED (179)
The OP is a moron, if you search on the links the author himself referenced at the end it clearly states "perfect black" which means infinite contrast.
If you were not such a completely and absolutely incompetent ass you would have noticed that the links the author himself referenced at the end also list the specs with exactly the viewing angle and contrast ratio numbers quoted by the author.
Indeed the source, below "related reading"(it should be above to reduce confusion), says those numbers, but Samsung's PDF says otherwise. Also in the source below I noticed: Color Temperature - Default 8,500K+-1,000K(floating Bin) That sounds like an eye-searing white point, and its adjusted minimum is 6500K barely acceptable and not recommended for use before sleep.
Keep in mind that a lot of CRTs ran a default 9300 K white point (really, this is because of Japan standardizing on 9300 K, as well as making a lot of CRTs) and things were... fine.
It is on the edge of what can be considered microLED as it isn't just about pixel pitch. The distinction generally comes from how the LEDs are mounted on the board. MicroLEDs use new techniques for density and individual LED are no longer serviceable for replacement. A single dead pixel in a more traditional LED will just have that one LED replaced in a module at a service lab and then sent back. If I had to guess, each 960 x 540 pixel cabinet leverages 60 x 60 pixel microLED tiles mounted inside of it. So a single dead pixel would ultimately result in a 60 x 60 section being replaced on the module board.
You didn't. The article mentions that each LED is 0.84 mm². Assuming the LEDs are square (even if they aren't, by assuming they're square if you know their area you can guestimate their X & Y size) each LED is √ 0.84 sq mm = ~0.92 mm x ~0.92 mm. Or ~920 μm x ~920 μm. That is a *very* big pixel/LED that is firmly in the millimeter scale, not the micrometer scale. However I just calculated pixel size, not pixel/dot pitch (i.e. not the distance between the center of each pixel). So, let's calculate pixel pitch as well :
A rectangle of 806.4 × 453.6 mm has a diagonal of 36.42 inches (I calculated that here : omnicalculator * com/math/diagonal-of-rectangle - the website's spam detector incorrectly interprets this link as spam...). From the 36.42" diagonal and the known resolution of 960 x 540 we can easily acquire the pixel pitch and the DPI/PPI.
The pixel pitch is 0.84 mm -still in the mm scale- and the PPI is a very low 30. Based on that very low PPI this is a display that needs to be viewed from very far, and the viewing distance will need to increase proportionally to the display's size. At its 6K configuration and above you don't need a house to view this comfortably, you need a dedicated private home theater.
Not quite. If each LED has an area of 0.84-mm² that means it is ~0.92 mm x ~0.92 mm. That is definitely not micro, it's squarely in the millimeter scale, so they are technically miniLEDs. Based on the resolution of 960 x 540 and the diagonal of 36.42" (calculated from the module's size) then the pixel pitch (distance between the center of two pixels) is 0.84 mm, which is less than the pixel size, meaning the miniLEDs are packed quite tightly.
What you described is what Sony did with their own microLED modules. They placed truly tiny, actual microLEDs inside huge black squares. As a result the microLEDs were just 1% of the display and the black squares were the other 99% (resulting in 99% lower brightness and 99% lower resolution). Based on the numbers quoted in this article though this is clearly not Samsung's approach.
Based on the numbers, Samsung's approach makes sense, Sony's is micro for micro's sake, whatever's the issue the tech isn't competitive at this point, it has zero advantage.
The issue is almost certainly overheating. Despite their very sparse microLEDs SONY's modules have a very thick and heavy cooling block on their back, with two rather large fans probably paired with a heavy copper cooler. The back side of the modules almost screams "I am hot!".
Then it's the electronics. More (micro)LEDs probably means more and/or more complex electronics to control them, which in turn means more power draw and even more heat. I also doubt that the power draw of the LEDs scales down linearly as you make them smaller, which is probably why Samsung kept the LEDs large. Last but not least the (micro)LEDs need to be bright, *very* bright. Probably as bright as they can get without burning up for peak brightness, during which they operate in an "overdrive mode". High brightness means high power draw and high heat.
"More (micro)LEDs probably means more and/or more complex electronics to control them" Yet for the same power consumption Samsung drives 960x540 while Sony only drives 320x360... Or by "More (micro)" you actually mean "smaller"? Which doesn't make sense either, they're just light bulbs after all, why are they significantly more complex to control when smaller?
"doubt that the power draw of the LEDs scales down linearly as you make them smaller, which is probably why Samsung kept the LEDs large" But obviously doesn't explain why Sony chose to go small.
"High brightness means high power draw and high heat. " Well in terms of actual output Samsung's is brighter, of course measuring by diode area Sony's is probably brighter, but again there seems to be a lack of practical advantage to the viewer.
This is already better than Sony's. Higher density: 4K@146", which is the perfect size for home theater, vs 220" which many condos don't even fit (2.4-2.7m floor height) and you'll need to move unnecessarily far from the screen to avoid your legs blocking the view. Higher peak brightness: 1600/2000nit vs. 1000nit. Higher efficiency: max power consumption of 960x540 module is about the same as Sony's 320x360 module Lower thickness: 30-72mm vs. 100mm Lower weight: one 960x540 module is about the same weight as Sony's 320x360 module.
Having built and maintained several LED walls from different vendors, these spec aren't that impressive initially. Other panels can be configured up to 600 Hz, 16 bit per channel color, and even higher contrast ratios. I suspect some things are lost when moving from individually surface mounted LEDs on a module to microLEDs packaging
The bigger question is the backend as several cabinets are typically fed by a CAT6A/7 or fiber down link connection from a control box and then daisy changed together. Newer LED controllers from Barco and Christie in fact use encapsulated video over Ethernet (SDVoE to be specific) and connect directly to their respective cabinets. A control box has a maximum number of pixels they can feed for a given refresh so they can feed so more are necessary as aggregate resolution increases. To feed more control boxes, a single input is generally fed into a video processor that'll splice the single image feed into multiple subsections for each control box. If Samsung can consolidate the backend a bit from more traditional LED solutions, that is a strong positive in my book.
It does appear that Samsung is throwing their smart TV product features into their backend controllers. Having Netflix embedded into the backend control boxes is something new for this market as such devices were always seen as external sources before. These are often seen as more consumerish features that get in the way (there is a reason why commercial displays are desirable as relatively 'dumb' TVs). Until prices really reach consumer thresholds, I'd be hesitate on pushing these in a microLED product line.
So a 3x3 would end up being 109.5 inches with a resolution of 2880x1630. That would be a great upgrade from my 1080p projector. But I doubt it would be affordable.
Looks good as a home theater but 840um^2 is roughly a square millimeter. To call it as a "micro" display is a bit of a stretch, I think.
Btw, there must be a demo vid since it's officially launched. Does anyone has a link? I could only find some dodgy vids from the last year's exhibition in YT.
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bubblyboo - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
"around 10,000:1 contrast ratio""as well as 155°/135° horizontal/vertical viewing angles"
So micro led is a dud too then?
danjw - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
These are first generation products.Commenter3000 - Friday, October 4, 2019 - link
Wrong, the figures are wrong.Check the author's own sources.
Commenter3000 - Friday, October 4, 2019 - link
No, you're right, the figures quoted by this guy are wrong.Contrast: infinite
Viewing angles: Very high, just like OLED (179)
The OP is a moron, if you search on the links the author himself referenced at the end it clearly states "perfect black" which means infinite contrast.
Dr. Madness - Saturday, October 5, 2019 - link
Look there, God's perfect idiot...If you were not such a completely and absolutely incompetent ass you would have noticed that the links the author himself referenced at the end also list the specs with exactly the viewing angle and contrast ratio numbers quoted by the author.
Guys, don't be that guy.
s.yu - Sunday, October 6, 2019 - link
Indeed the source, below "related reading"(it should be above to reduce confusion), says those numbers, but Samsung's PDF says otherwise.Also in the source below I noticed:
Color Temperature - Default
8,500K+-1,000K(floating Bin)
That sounds like an eye-searing white point, and its adjusted minimum is 6500K barely acceptable and not recommended for use before sleep.
bhtooefr - Sunday, October 13, 2019 - link
Keep in mind that a lot of CRTs ran a default 9300 K white point (really, this is because of Japan standardizing on 9300 K, as well as making a lot of CRTs) and things were... fine.xenol - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
Is this even microLED? The really low PPI doesn't make it sound like such.Kevin G - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
It is on the edge of what can be considered microLED as it isn't just about pixel pitch. The distinction generally comes from how the LEDs are mounted on the board. MicroLEDs use new techniques for density and individual LED are no longer serviceable for replacement. A single dead pixel in a more traditional LED will just have that one LED replaced in a module at a service lab and then sent back. If I had to guess, each 960 x 540 pixel cabinet leverages 60 x 60 pixel microLED tiles mounted inside of it. So a single dead pixel would ultimately result in a 60 x 60 section being replaced on the module board.xenol - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
It seems really misleading to call it "micro" if the pixel pitch isn't even on a micrometer scale.xenol - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
Actually I think I did my math wrong. Disregard.Santoval - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
You didn't. The article mentions that each LED is 0.84 mm². Assuming the LEDs are square (even if they aren't, by assuming they're square if you know their area you can guestimate their X & Y size) each LED is √ 0.84 sq mm = ~0.92 mm x ~0.92 mm. Or ~920 μm x ~920 μm. That is a *very* big pixel/LED that is firmly in the millimeter scale, not the micrometer scale. However I just calculated pixel size, not pixel/dot pitch (i.e. not the distance between the center of each pixel). So, let's calculate pixel pitch as well :A rectangle of 806.4 × 453.6 mm has a diagonal of 36.42 inches (I calculated that here : omnicalculator * com/math/diagonal-of-rectangle - the website's spam detector incorrectly interprets this link as spam...). From the 36.42" diagonal and the known resolution of 960 x 540 we can easily acquire the pixel pitch and the DPI/PPI.
The pixel pitch is 0.84 mm -still in the mm scale- and the PPI is a very low 30. Based on that very low PPI this is a display that needs to be viewed from very far, and the viewing distance will need to increase proportionally to the display's size. At its 6K configuration and above you don't need a house to view this comfortably, you need a dedicated private home theater.
rpg1966 - Friday, October 4, 2019 - link
It's a lot easier to just do 806.4/960 (or 453.6/540) = 0.84mm.edzieba - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
'MicroLED' is just a marketing term for individually addressable COB construction.xenol - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
Wouldn't addressable RGB strips technically fit this definition then?tarsius - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
The size of LEDs is micro. But the distance between pixels is much bigger than the size of a pixel. Hence the low PPI despite of microLED.Santoval - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
Not quite. If each LED has an area of 0.84-mm² that means it is ~0.92 mm x ~0.92 mm. That is definitely not micro, it's squarely in the millimeter scale, so they are technically miniLEDs. Based on the resolution of 960 x 540 and the diagonal of 36.42" (calculated from the module's size) then the pixel pitch (distance between the center of two pixels) is 0.84 mm, which is less than the pixel size, meaning the miniLEDs are packed quite tightly.What you described is what Sony did with their own microLED modules. They placed truly tiny, actual microLEDs inside huge black squares. As a result the microLEDs were just 1% of the display and the black squares were the other 99% (resulting in 99% lower brightness and 99% lower resolution). Based on the numbers quoted in this article though this is clearly not Samsung's approach.
s.yu - Friday, October 4, 2019 - link
Based on the numbers, Samsung's approach makes sense, Sony's is micro for micro's sake, whatever's the issue the tech isn't competitive at this point, it has zero advantage.Santoval - Saturday, October 5, 2019 - link
The issue is almost certainly overheating. Despite their very sparse microLEDs SONY's modules have a very thick and heavy cooling block on their back, with two rather large fans probably paired with a heavy copper cooler. The back side of the modules almost screams "I am hot!".Then it's the electronics. More (micro)LEDs probably means more and/or more complex electronics to control them, which in turn means more power draw and even more heat. I also doubt that the power draw of the LEDs scales down linearly as you make them smaller, which is probably why Samsung kept the LEDs large. Last but not least the (micro)LEDs need to be bright, *very* bright. Probably as bright as they can get without burning up for peak brightness, during which they operate in an "overdrive mode". High brightness means high power draw and high heat.
s.yu - Saturday, October 5, 2019 - link
Not much of that seems to make sense..."More (micro)LEDs probably means more and/or more complex electronics to control them"
Yet for the same power consumption Samsung drives 960x540 while Sony only drives 320x360...
Or by "More (micro)" you actually mean "smaller"? Which doesn't make sense either, they're just light bulbs after all, why are they significantly more complex to control when smaller?
"doubt that the power draw of the LEDs scales down linearly as you make them smaller, which is probably why Samsung kept the LEDs large"
But obviously doesn't explain why Sony chose to go small.
"High brightness means high power draw and high heat. "
Well in terms of actual output Samsung's is brighter, of course measuring by diode area Sony's is probably brighter, but again there seems to be a lack of practical advantage to the viewer.
s.yu - Friday, October 4, 2019 - link
This is already better than Sony's.Higher density: 4K@146", which is the perfect size for home theater, vs 220" which many condos don't even fit (2.4-2.7m floor height) and you'll need to move unnecessarily far from the screen to avoid your legs blocking the view.
Higher peak brightness: 1600/2000nit vs. 1000nit.
Higher efficiency: max power consumption of 960x540 module is about the same as Sony's 320x360 module
Lower thickness: 30-72mm vs. 100mm
Lower weight: one 960x540 module is about the same weight as Sony's 320x360 module.
Sony's seems two generations behind.
s.yu - Friday, October 4, 2019 - link
...The price remains an issue though, if this turns out twice Sony's price for a given size then forget the above.dropme - Sunday, October 6, 2019 - link
Why are you so obsessed with Sony.s.yu - Sunday, October 6, 2019 - link
Because Sony's the only other MicroLED competitor, and the only one with pricing information at the moment.daviderickson - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
These are insanely gorgeous in person, they had it at CES, and it blew away everything else on the showfloor by a country mile.PeachNCream - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
What is a country mile?valinor89 - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
I guess a unit of measure used on those "country roads" I heard about in some song...vortmax2 - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
A country mile is significantly longer than an urban mile. So this must be one nice TV. LOLKevin G - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
Having built and maintained several LED walls from different vendors, these spec aren't that impressive initially. Other panels can be configured up to 600 Hz, 16 bit per channel color, and even higher contrast ratios. I suspect some things are lost when moving from individually surface mounted LEDs on a module to microLEDs packagingThe bigger question is the backend as several cabinets are typically fed by a CAT6A/7 or fiber down link connection from a control box and then daisy changed together. Newer LED controllers from Barco and Christie in fact use encapsulated video over Ethernet (SDVoE to be specific) and connect directly to their respective cabinets. A control box has a maximum number of pixels they can feed for a given refresh so they can feed so more are necessary as aggregate resolution increases. To feed more control boxes, a single input is generally fed into a video processor that'll splice the single image feed into multiple subsections for each control box. If Samsung can consolidate the backend a bit from more traditional LED solutions, that is a strong positive in my book.
It does appear that Samsung is throwing their smart TV product features into their backend controllers. Having Netflix embedded into the backend control boxes is something new for this market as such devices were always seen as external sources before. These are often seen as more consumerish features that get in the way (there is a reason why commercial displays are desirable as relatively 'dumb' TVs). Until prices really reach consumer thresholds, I'd be hesitate on pushing these in a microLED product line.
vortmax2 - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
Great post. Thanks for the info on the economics and market.TristanSDX - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
Macro LEDanarfox - Friday, October 4, 2019 - link
So a 3x3 would end up being 109.5 inches with a resolution of 2880x1630. That would be a great upgrade from my 1080p projector. But I doubt it would be affordable.dropme - Sunday, October 6, 2019 - link
Looks good as a home theater but 840um^2 is roughly a square millimeter. To call it as a "micro" display is a bit of a stretch, I think.Btw, there must be a demo vid since it's officially launched. Does anyone has a link? I could only find some dodgy vids from the last year's exhibition in YT.