IBM not performance machines? X-series, yes, but find me a performance laptop that weighs just over a kilo :) T42 on the other hand, can be configured with Pentium M 745 and Mobility Radeon 9600, which should give you pretty decent gaming capability. Of course it isn't as powerful as those Mobility Radeon 9800 based models, and the price ($3000-3500, depending on other components) is somewhat uncomfortable, but it's by no means weak.
Oh yes... I forgot to mention that I oversee the people who do the purchasing, repair, and I get feedback on reliablity of over 2000 units in the field and office....
Actually, I find these laptops between the IBM X40 and the T42.
My company uses only IBM laptops both at the corporate level, the branches, and our sales force. Office workers use the T series...from the T20 on up to the T42p. (I'm typing on a T41 right now and will be using a T42 soon). The X series....from the X21 on up to the X40...are used by most of the sales-team....with some T series tossed in there.
Let me say HANDS DOWN, that IBM has proven their value to us....Period. Occasionally we evaluate Toshiba, Gateway, Dell.....they don't last the mininum 3 year life cycle....
For public use, I don't always recommend IBM...they're definetly not performance machines....Games? forget it...
#17, I'm a technician, and I can say this: HP assembly quality _SUCKS_. Really it does. It looks like they use 10lb hammers and chisels to make the parts fit somehow, and don't give a damn what happens afterwards. Some parts rattle; others are wedged in so tight there is no way to remove them without breaking something, and it's been the case with pretty much every HP laptop that I came across in the last couple years. I'm not a big fan of Dell either, but at least they are better than HP.
why not try testing some laptops besides the big name brands?
im typing this on a compal cl56
it is 6lbs, has a 1.7ghz dothan, 512mb ram, 60gb 5400rpm hd, 128mb mobility radeon 9700, 15in sxga+ screen, dvd/cd-rw, and over 4 hours of battery life when using light applications
and i got it for $1600
also what about the sager line of laptops?
most of those are definately DTRs but should definately be looked at
notebookforums.com has a lot of info on many other oem laptops too
anyway, the cl56 im using has become REALLY popular so it might be a good idea to try testing one (if you can get a review sample)
Gholam - HP/Compaq is actually superior to Dell IMO when it comes to business notebooks.
People sometimes say "brand X sucks," but don't realize that quality and service can vary significantly among a company's many product lines.
As for Powerbooks - they don't compete with business machines like the nc6000 and D600. It would be more appropriate to compare them with Dell's 8600/D800 line and Compaq's X1000 type (widescreen 15" multimedia platform).
#15, if there was a Thinkpad in the review, it would've been unfair, as no onther notebook vendor is even remotely close to standing up to IBM in terms of quality and engineering. I rank the top four notebook vendors in the following order: IBM, Toshiba, then Dell, and lastly HP/Compaq.
One thing that struck me is how much dell just seems to ignore how important battery life is. My D800 gets about two and a half hours, miserble. My C400 is not much better.
I'm in the market for a laptop, considering everything including the macs and this review was very helpful.
just want to say, since my above post could be taken negatively:
I just wanted to point out as an nc6000 user that you didn't mention it's speakers (which as any Compaq user will know) are some of the best on any laptop - very rich with reasonable bass and strong volume, it easily rivals small stereos.
Secondly, I don't think it's quite clear how much tougher the HP is than the Dell. I had both and pressing slightly on the Dell logo on the D600 would flex it down by about 3-4mm with very little pressure; the HP is far more robust, so it's size isn't that much of an issue (but the Dell is a bit of a headturner, the HP definitely isn't).
Also (only a small point) but given the Dell's and HP's graphics cards, a small 3D-based test (3DMark2001 SE?) wouldn't have gone amiss [that's the reason I had these machines for their size and graphics]. In seriousness, with that Gateway, what are you going to do with a 1.7Ghz Dothan CPU if not game sometimes, or that you couldn't do with a Pentium III-M 850Mhz?
ksherman- "wheres the Macs? As far as im concerned, the Powerbook owns all these in terms of performance, size, weight, looks, and battery life... Its apparently even in the same price range as these "mid-sized" laptops... Bring on the Mac articles AT!"
I have no clue about the technical aspect of the powerbooks size, weight, and battery life. But I do know you couldn't be more right about the looks... PLUS there's a Quake I... and I think a Quake II software renderer for Macs also... nudge nudge wink wink.
SOFTWARE renderer origianl "Half-Life" or "Quake 2". Preferably Half-Life. Their software reneder is more taxing than Quake 2's. Old school, yes, but it's not biased tward desktop, or laptop video cards.
#6 - Well, I hope we didn't knock it too much in the overall sense. But we are talking about the business user market segment, and we were putting more emphasis on the display more so than the other nic nacs.
I'm not a Gateway fan, but I think it's kind of silly to knock the Gateway laptop in the ratings because it doesn't have gigabit ethernet. Gigabit ethernet is nothing but a sales pitch as far as laptops are concerned, since the hard drives just arent capable of supplying data at gigabit speeds. I can tell you from experience that a D600 with gigabit doesnt transfer any faster than a C640 with 10/100 ethernet.
Great review! Very informative. It's hard to find good reviews of laptops that take into account things other than performance - like ergonomics, LED locations, battery life, weight, size, etc.
wheres the Macs? As far as im concerned, the Powerbook owns all these in terms of performance, size, weight, looks, and battery life... Its apparently even in the same price range as these "mid-sized" laptops... Bring on the Mac articles AT!
#1 - A64 based laptops, at least so far, are those best reserved for the DTR market, and thus are focused on the performance aspect of the notebook market. If you want mobility, get a P-M based notebook.
As for half-life or other gaming applications, one of these notebooks uses Intel's integrated graphic's system, so that wasn't something that was practical, and of the other two that use discrete GPUs, one uses a DX8 mobile graphics part.
#2 - Well... As far as weight and the general specs go, I think the whole market is becoming more and more grey. We will be back with a thin and light side of the Dothan market.
Great review- sad state of affairs when a 6 pound 1.4" thick laptop is considered mid-size though..... it's fine for machines that won't travel much but this trend of larger & thicker (read: Dell) is not for me.
Where the are the rest of the benchmarks comparing it to the P4, and Athlon 64 mobiles out there? No superpi, run half-life in software mode, or pull out your old dusty copy of quake 2 for that matter. I want to know if I should get a a64 based laptop, or a P-M based one, it's a good review to be sure, but could use a little fleshing out.
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Gholam - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
IBM not performance machines? X-series, yes, but find me a performance laptop that weighs just over a kilo :) T42 on the other hand, can be configured with Pentium M 745 and Mobility Radeon 9600, which should give you pretty decent gaming capability. Of course it isn't as powerful as those Mobility Radeon 9800 based models, and the price ($3000-3500, depending on other components) is somewhat uncomfortable, but it's by no means weak.Souka - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
Oh yes... I forgot to mention that I oversee the people who do the purchasing, repair, and I get feedback on reliablity of over 2000 units in the field and office....:)
Souka - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
Actually, I find these laptops between the IBM X40 and the T42.My company uses only IBM laptops both at the corporate level, the branches, and our sales force. Office workers use the T series...from the T20 on up to the T42p. (I'm typing on a T41 right now and will be using a T42 soon). The X series....from the X21 on up to the X40...are used by most of the sales-team....with some T series tossed in there.
Let me say HANDS DOWN, that IBM has proven their value to us....Period. Occasionally we evaluate Toshiba, Gateway, Dell.....they don't last the mininum 3 year life cycle....
For public use, I don't always recommend IBM...they're definetly not performance machines....Games? forget it...
Nuf Said.
Gholam - Saturday, October 2, 2004 - link
#17, I'm a technician, and I can say this: HP assembly quality _SUCKS_. Really it does. It looks like they use 10lb hammers and chisels to make the parts fit somehow, and don't give a damn what happens afterwards. Some parts rattle; others are wedged in so tight there is no way to remove them without breaking something, and it's been the case with pretty much every HP laptop that I came across in the last couple years. I'm not a big fan of Dell either, but at least they are better than HP.andyman7 - Friday, October 1, 2004 - link
why not try testing some laptops besides the big name brands?im typing this on a compal cl56
it is 6lbs, has a 1.7ghz dothan, 512mb ram, 60gb 5400rpm hd, 128mb mobility radeon 9700, 15in sxga+ screen, dvd/cd-rw, and over 4 hours of battery life when using light applications
and i got it for $1600
also what about the sager line of laptops?
most of those are definately DTRs but should definately be looked at
notebookforums.com has a lot of info on many other oem laptops too
anyway, the cl56 im using has become REALLY popular so it might be a good idea to try testing one (if you can get a review sample)
stateofbeasley - Friday, October 1, 2004 - link
Gholam - HP/Compaq is actually superior to Dell IMO when it comes to business notebooks.People sometimes say "brand X sucks," but don't realize that quality and service can vary significantly among a company's many product lines.
As for Powerbooks - they don't compete with business machines like the nc6000 and D600. It would be more appropriate to compare them with Dell's 8600/D800 line and Compaq's X1000 type (widescreen 15" multimedia platform).
Gholam - Friday, October 1, 2004 - link
#15, if there was a Thinkpad in the review, it would've been unfair, as no onther notebook vendor is even remotely close to standing up to IBM in terms of quality and engineering. I rank the top four notebook vendors in the following order: IBM, Toshiba, then Dell, and lastly HP/Compaq.Boardmonger - Friday, October 1, 2004 - link
Can we say IBM Thinkpad T42p? I would love to see it thrown in the review ;)trikster2 - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
One thing that struck me is how much dell just seems to ignore how important battery life is. My D800 gets about two and a half hours, miserble. My C400 is not much better.
I'm in the market for a laptop, considering everything including the macs and this review was very helpful.
just want to say, since my above post could be taken negatively:
Great review!
trikster2 - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
Another vote for the macs. For most business laptop use, as these are designed for they are fine subs for their pc brethern.
I find it amazing that the 17" power book is only 6.9lbs close in weight to these ugly (comparitively) PC bricks.
Monkeydonutstick - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
You can't be serious about comparing a Powerbook G4 to any of these. Powerbooks were owned by P3’s for Christ sake.plewis00 - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
I just wanted to point out as an nc6000 user that you didn't mention it's speakers (which as any Compaq user will know) are some of the best on any laptop - very rich with reasonable bass and strong volume, it easily rivals small stereos.Secondly, I don't think it's quite clear how much tougher the HP is than the Dell. I had both and pressing slightly on the Dell logo on the D600 would flex it down by about 3-4mm with very little pressure; the HP is far more robust, so it's size isn't that much of an issue (but the Dell is a bit of a headturner, the HP definitely isn't).
Also (only a small point) but given the Dell's and HP's graphics cards, a small 3D-based test (3DMark2001 SE?) wouldn't have gone amiss [that's the reason I had these machines for their size and graphics]. In seriousness, with that Gateway, what are you going to do with a 1.7Ghz Dothan CPU if not game sometimes, or that you couldn't do with a Pentium III-M 850Mhz?
manno - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
ksherman- "wheres the Macs? As far as im concerned, the Powerbook owns all these in terms of performance, size, weight, looks, and battery life... Its apparently even in the same price range as these "mid-sized" laptops... Bring on the Mac articles AT!"I have no clue about the technical aspect of the powerbooks size, weight, and battery life. But I do know you couldn't be more right about the looks... PLUS there's a Quake I... and I think a Quake II software renderer for Macs also... nudge nudge wink wink.
manno - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
SOFTWARE renderer origianl "Half-Life" or "Quake 2". Preferably Half-Life. Their software reneder is more taxing than Quake 2's. Old school, yes, but it's not biased tward desktop, or laptop video cards.peace on!... Crakers!
AndrewKu - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
#4 - Hopefully, we will get to that real soon.AndrewKu - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
#6 - Well, I hope we didn't knock it too much in the overall sense. But we are talking about the business user market segment, and we were putting more emphasis on the display more so than the other nic nacs.YaBaBom - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
I'm not a Gateway fan, but I think it's kind of silly to knock the Gateway laptop in the ratings because it doesn't have gigabit ethernet. Gigabit ethernet is nothing but a sales pitch as far as laptops are concerned, since the hard drives just arent capable of supplying data at gigabit speeds. I can tell you from experience that a D600 with gigabit doesnt transfer any faster than a C640 with 10/100 ethernet.brainwave64 - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
Great review! Very informative. It's hard to find good reviews of laptops that take into account things other than performance - like ergonomics, LED locations, battery life, weight, size, etc.--paperboy164
ksherman - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
wheres the Macs? As far as im concerned, the Powerbook owns all these in terms of performance, size, weight, looks, and battery life... Its apparently even in the same price range as these "mid-sized" laptops... Bring on the Mac articles AT!AndrewKu - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
#1 - A64 based laptops, at least so far, are those best reserved for the DTR market, and thus are focused on the performance aspect of the notebook market. If you want mobility, get a P-M based notebook.As for half-life or other gaming applications, one of these notebooks uses Intel's integrated graphic's system, so that wasn't something that was practical, and of the other two that use discrete GPUs, one uses a DX8 mobile graphics part.
#2 - Well... As far as weight and the general specs go, I think the whole market is becoming more and more grey. We will be back with a thin and light side of the Dothan market.
rowcroft - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
Great review- sad state of affairs when a 6 pound 1.4" thick laptop is considered mid-size though..... it's fine for machines that won't travel much but this trend of larger & thicker (read: Dell) is not for me.Rowcroft
manno - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - link
Where the are the rest of the benchmarks comparing it to the P4, and Athlon 64 mobiles out there? No superpi, run half-life in software mode, or pull out your old dusty copy of quake 2 for that matter. I want to know if I should get a a64 based laptop, or a P-M based one, it's a good review to be sure, but could use a little fleshing out.Abdulraheem - Tuesday, December 29, 2020 - link
Can i install window 7 on Compaq nc6000