It is disappointing that their APU's are a generation behind. That makes it a tough sell. It's easy to recommend a 9th gen Intel CPU with integrated graphics over a 10th gen because there is basically no noticeable difference. There is, however, a significant difference in performance going from a Zen+ to a Zen2 arch processor.
If AMD wanted to strip their integrated GPU's down to the same power budget and capability as Intel they could offer the same.
My bet is they are going slow while trying to develop a GPU chiplet that would slot into the same die they've already got. The laptop chips with integrated graphics are always behind in performance.
Though intel uses laptop chips as a test bed for the next process I think AMD's method has promise because they are likely trying to figure out how to chiplet the GPU side and slot it into the existing design. One of the advantages of AMD's chiplet design is the ability to slot it into a chip with a chiplet just like more CPU cores. In an ideal world you'd have 1 cpu chiplet, 1 gpu chiplet and a handful of IO chiplets that allow you assemble a broad product line from independent GPU, to combined CPU-GPU products. Such a product line would allow you to maximize the chiplets performance and yields while maintaining a broad segment. This was always the most interesting possibility with the chiplets to me.
in ideal world you have 6 slots you can fill with gpu chiplets/cpu chiplets, so they could make a batch of configurations all from 4/8 with 8 CU (1/1) up to 20/40 cpu with 8 CU (5/1) and 12/24 one with 24 CU (3/3) and 8/16 with 32 CU (2/4) and then pick first one as entry, second for work, third one as mix of performance, last one as gaming....
AMD is trailing on mobile parts because desktop and server parts are high volume, high margin products. Mobile parts are high volume, but low margin because you almost exclusively deal with an OEM that buys in volume. With desktop parts, you have much smaller OEMs as well as consumer DIYers buying from stores like newegg and Amazon.
While that is a compliment to the Zen 2 improvements, it is quite understandable that it is on a prior arch due to the manufacturing node - 7nm demand outstrips capacity causing supply issues and it is expensive. APUs are the lower margin per area so they get the previous, less expensive stuff, while high margin CPUs (Epyc) gets the high performance leading edge. And for customers whats on the table is not so much that the Zen 2 is better, but how good is the Ryzen 3000 APUs compared to competition (from Intel).
Nothing special. 3900x is 95W and with almost 1GHz lower base clock they go to 65W. We are talking about 7nm in the end. If it would be 35W, yeah, that would be amazing.
They meant to write "enterprise", as all the network management features are useless for small businesses and everybody else except for large businesses with multiple offices and remote IT.
Mm, 35W quad core with graphics? That Ryzen 5 Pro 3400GE looks like a good desktop gaming chip and for once doesn't need an irrationally large HSF or demand the installation of a dGPU. If mobile phones didn't exist, I'd be very tempted to look into throwing together a system around a CPU like that.
The only problem is that as end-usr , it is very difficult, nay impossible to get the E/35w versions. Even the previous gen are very very rare. (2400Ge,2200Ge). And whilst 35w is low, its not really low enough 25w 15w should be their target.
They are quite easy to find on eBay, if you don't mind getting a slightly used one. I bought a 2400GE for a particular application and I like it very much. Obviously it's more constrained by its power budget than the 65-watt 2400G (which is exactly what I needed for the slim mITX build) but the GPU performs just like that of a 2400G with an OpenCL load. The GPU just gets throttled more quickly as you load up the CPU cores. I used an Athlon 200GE as proof of concept but I'm glad I replaced it with the 2400GE, which is a much better chip for the given TDP of 35 watts.
They should sell these to consumers. Especially the APUs, since the consumer versions of those don't support ECC. Now that AMD is doing direct sales from their website, even that would be enough.
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oRAirwolf - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
It is disappointing that their APU's are a generation behind. That makes it a tough sell. It's easy to recommend a 9th gen Intel CPU with integrated graphics over a 10th gen because there is basically no noticeable difference. There is, however, a significant difference in performance going from a Zen+ to a Zen2 arch processor.rahvin - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
If AMD wanted to strip their integrated GPU's down to the same power budget and capability as Intel they could offer the same.My bet is they are going slow while trying to develop a GPU chiplet that would slot into the same die they've already got. The laptop chips with integrated graphics are always behind in performance.
Though intel uses laptop chips as a test bed for the next process I think AMD's method has promise because they are likely trying to figure out how to chiplet the GPU side and slot it into the existing design. One of the advantages of AMD's chiplet design is the ability to slot it into a chip with a chiplet just like more CPU cores. In an ideal world you'd have 1 cpu chiplet, 1 gpu chiplet and a handful of IO chiplets that allow you assemble a broad product line from independent GPU, to combined CPU-GPU products. Such a product line would allow you to maximize the chiplets performance and yields while maintaining a broad segment. This was always the most interesting possibility with the chiplets to me.
deil - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
in ideal world you have 6 slots you can fill with gpu chiplets/cpu chiplets, so they could make abatch of configurations
all from 4/8 with 8 CU (1/1) up to 20/40 cpu with 8 CU (5/1) and 12/24 one with 24 CU (3/3) and 8/16 with 32 CU (2/4)
and then pick first one as entry, second for work, third one as mix of performance, last one as gaming....
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
Mmmm... Capitals!wilsonkf - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
Isn't the next gen APU still an integrated design?damianrobertjones - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
Mmmm... chiplet.eek2121 - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
AMD is trailing on mobile parts because desktop and server parts are high volume, high margin products. Mobile parts are high volume, but low margin because you almost exclusively deal with an OEM that buys in volume. With desktop parts, you have much smaller OEMs as well as consumer DIYers buying from stores like newegg and Amazon.The True Morbus - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
Not in gaming though, so it's not that big of a deal, to be honest.Pyrostemplar - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
While that is a compliment to the Zen 2 improvements, it is quite understandable that it is on a prior arch due to the manufacturing node - 7nm demand outstrips capacity causing supply issues and it is expensive. APUs are the lower margin per area so they get the previous, less expensive stuff, while high margin CPUs (Epyc) gets the high performance leading edge.And for customers whats on the table is not so much that the Zen 2 is better, but how good is the Ryzen 3000 APUs compared to competition (from Intel).
Adi_Nemesis - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
The only thing of note is the 65W 12-Core. Everything else is product segmentation via feature differentiation of existing SKUs.PixyMisa - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
The 65W 12 core is pretty impressive though. Would make a great small server CPU.yeeeeman - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
Nothing special. 3900x is 95W and with almost 1GHz lower base clock they go to 65W. We are talking about 7nm in the end. If it would be 35W, yeah, that would be amazing.Death666Angel - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
*105WMrSpadge - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
"Commercial PCs Get Radeon Vega Graphics"Which PC is sold as a non-commercial one?
Ryan Smith - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
PCs for industrial uses, PCs for consumers/home users, etc.Death666Angel - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
"Commercial" in this instance usually refers to things that are used in a way to generate money to businesses and not for recreation or private use.peevee - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
They meant to write "enterprise", as all the network management features are useless for small businesses and everybody else except for large businesses with multiple offices and remote IT.lejeczek - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
It would be interesting to see AMD's APU (maybe a new family) built on GloFo's new 12LP+ - https://www.anandtech.com/show/14905/globalfoundri...PeachNCream - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
Mm, 35W quad core with graphics? That Ryzen 5 Pro 3400GE looks like a good desktop gaming chip and for once doesn't need an irrationally large HSF or demand the installation of a dGPU. If mobile phones didn't exist, I'd be very tempted to look into throwing together a system around a CPU like that.MASSAMKULABOX - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
The only problem is that as end-usr , it is very difficult, nay impossible to get the E/35w versions. Even the previous gen are very very rare. (2400Ge,2200Ge). And whilst 35w is low, its not really low enough 25w 15w should be their target.John_M - Tuesday, October 1, 2019 - link
They are quite easy to find on eBay, if you don't mind getting a slightly used one. I bought a 2400GE for a particular application and I like it very much. Obviously it's more constrained by its power budget than the 65-watt 2400G (which is exactly what I needed for the slim mITX build) but the GPU performs just like that of a 2400G with an OpenCL load. The GPU just gets throttled more quickly as you load up the CPU cores. I used an Athlon 200GE as proof of concept but I'm glad I replaced it with the 2400GE, which is a much better chip for the given TDP of 35 watts.mode_13h - Thursday, October 3, 2019 - link
They should sell these to consumers. Especially the APUs, since the consumer versions of those don't support ECC. Now that AMD is doing direct sales from their website, even that would be enough.