Whether you want to admit it or not the US looks pretty much the same these days.
Also notice the distinct absence of evidence for any of the accusations made (very undemocratic and anti-freedom wouldn't you say?), and the fact that US companies that have a track record of accidental flaws and backdoors, or were in any way directly implicated in nation wide spying scandals are still free to "ensure freedom" worldwide.
This is not to excuse China by any means. I'm just suggesting one must try to take a break from constantly defending one side while pointing fingers at the other since shoveling shit must be a hard job.
So... that's a no to the evidence question? Thought so. Anyway, the point wasn't just that there's no evidence to support the "national security" scenario. Given how this ban looks to be more like a negotiation you'd think it's either not a real threat or some US politicians are also putting the country's security at risk all by themselves by not acting thus being complicit (gotta fill those pockets).
How come Cisco isn't banned? They're the poster child of "oh that backdoor? no that was a test, some lazy dev must have forgotten the hardcoded key" or them being (unwitting) accomplices to the NSA's effort to SPY ON THE WHOLE WORLD (especially US and China).
How about MS, seeing how DoD has official access to the source code and (unrelated) some other government branches like NSA have amassed huge caches of exploits?
How about Intel, with its omnipresent ME controller and blackbox FW in *every* CPU?
See what I did there? Links. So now you'll go home knowing I'm right (and a bit of an a-hole, granted) and you're wrong, and you'll take it out on Huawei (I'm good with that).
First, let me thank you for providing some backup to your statements in the form of supporting articles (links). This would allow for further discussion, though I will simply state that I find most of your points valid. Part of the problem with the discussion on this thread is that the original poster, the poster that responded to you, and the poster you responded to are all different posters, so there is less continuity of thought.
I do not profess the accuracy of these articles. I am merely posting these to a make a few points. Not providing evidence isn't proof that evidence doesn't exists. That said, it is hard to hold a productive discussion if there isn't some form of support for your statements. Also, available evidence isn't proof of correctness as the quality, accuracy, and interpretation of evidence varies.
For instance, you suggest that MS should be banned because they gave the U.S. DoD has access to their source code and (unrelated) the NSA has a large cache of exploits for their OS. However, the supporting article gives not evidence of U.S. DoD influence on code development. So a different interpretation might be that the U.S. DoD wants access to the code base to make sure there isn't malicious foreign influence. After all, Microsoft is a multinational company and operates in countries not entirely friendly to the U.S. DoD. As to the NSA exploits, the linked article suggests that the majority of them are for old (EOL) operating systems. Even some of the exploits that Hacker Fantastic found to work on all versions of windows, he clarified were run against systems that were not fully patched (per the article). What the article doesn't provide is evidence that the cache of exploits for MS operating systems is larger than that of other operating systems. Though it is questionable, it is entirely possible that the NSA has a larger or more relevant cache of exploits for iOS, Android, or even Linux. Using this interpretation there is no reason to dismiss MS. While the cynic in me wants to dismiss such an benign interpretation as unmerited, there is not yet any evidence in the discussion to suggest this. Again, this is just an example of interpretation of evidence. It wouldn't take long to produce evidence supporting the idea that Microsoft, like most other corporations, is an entity whose actions align with the goal of profitability and have not always been in the end user's best interest.
So evidence of spying conducted by the government of a country with free speech & freedom of the press---being forthcoming---somehow invalidates the non-forthcoming nature of the spying conducted by a communist, press-controlled state? That is to say, because the evidence is more easily covered up and subverted...that somehow China is blameless?
I would not trust a Chinese smartphone period. Huawei or any other. I trust Kaspersky infinitely more than I trust Huawei.
The US is no angel here. Many US companies have profited big time because of the Chinese. Had the US companies not been doing business with the Chinese 1/3 of the current index valuations in the US would be gone. If Huawei Aline sells 400 million smartphones per year with Google Play on them at $40 per smartphone in licensing/royalty fees just how much is Google making off of that alone? Do these profits not help Google’s stock in the US? Do these profits not enable Google to pay high salaries to Americans working for Google in America? Does the government not get a 30% cut out of their salaries as well? The list goes on and on..
The ascent of Huawei happened through FRAUD and the stealing of intellectual properties. In addition, China being an authoritarian state, one will be a FOOL to think that Huawei is NOT an extension of the Chinese government.
We all know what the Chinese government is like!!!
If Huawei is so honest WHY don't they come clear with stealing intellectual properties of Nortel - pretty much the basis of where Huawei is today??
The Chinese trolls here will scream and bray to say that Huawei is all above board and ANY accusation against it - according to them - is malicious.
Huawei is FAR FAR worse than that. There is INDEED evidence
After Huawei's Chief Financial Officer Meng Wanzhou was arrested in China, the Chinese government PROMPTLY arrested three INNOCENT Canadian citizens on TRUMPED UP charges and all of them are facing death penalties.
To think that this is a mere coincidence is to dream in color!!!!
ummm just cause not buy a phone with them "on the sticker" what OS does your phone use Android, iOS, MSFT? seems like, you want a phone, no choice, you/we are basically forced into one of them "spying" corporations..trick, turn off all that trcking stuff (90% can be turned off) the remaing 10% or so, no choice at least NA, security holes for a variety of reasons.
my simple thinking "it is a corrupt world, we lock our doors and such, only make sense that which seems attached to everyone's hand is at least as good security measures"
overall
they have been
^.^
----------------
that being said, I not buy Moto anymore (not close to live to expectation) not willing to play flagship level pricing for phones that have a battery 1/2 to 1/3 the size of the "budget" phones others not so flagship offer (i.e why LG/Samsung etc constant slap high end stuff in their phones but make it limp along with a battery BUILT IN that if you use all them parts "all out" your lucky if you do not have to sit beside a plug....
I got Xiaomi, nearly same class of part selection, but at least they (entire line) is effectively 3k-4400 size (day and a half to over a week in my case, listen to music, talk, notes etc)
My understanding is the evidence was gathered via FISA and the US government has filed action against Huawei. The problem is the evidence is marked as 'classified' and hasn't been released.
Even assuming the evidence exists (I'm sure they're into A LOT of shady and illegal things) the fact that the US is pushing other countries to cut ties with Huawei is evidence of shoveling sh*t, as I was saying, considering it's coming from the home of the NSA.
Most governments are more prone to acting in their own interest than against their interest for the benefit of others. Consider the EU fining Intel for offering (illegal) incentives to forgo AMD products while not even investigating the European collaborators who accepted and profited from these incentives. Also, consider the Chinese policy that they will not extradite a Chinese citizen for crimes committed in another country. Finally, and most relevantly, consider the U.S. decision to take international action against Huawei for actions that U.S. companies have been complicit or even collaborative in since before Huawei even became a multinational company.
Your first example here - about Intel - only really seems to fit the point you made because of your limited framing. You're right that the EU didn't go after any of the European collaborators, but they didn't go after any of the US collaborators (Dell, HP, IBM) either - they went after the source of the problem.
All we hear are claims of denial, but there's been real reporting on the topic. https://www.wsj.com/articles/huaweis-yearslong-ris... "Jesse Hong, a software architect at Huawei’s California unit, said in a lawsuit that his bosses ordered him in November 2017 to use fake company names to register himself for an industry conference organized by Facebook Inc. The social-media giant had invited other companies to a Telecom Infra Project meeting, a collaboration on network design, but excluded Huawei. The suit was confidentially settled in April. Mr. Hong said he refused to carry out the directive, leading his supervisor to unleash a stream of abuse and a threat: “If you don’t agree on this, then you quit right now.” After Mr. Hong declined, Huawei fired him. The company says it acted in good faith."
AT folks better be unbiased and be careful in pandering to one party over another. If mass media culture is to be believed (and at the expense of being facetious), even HBO's Silicon Valley has some decent portrayal of IP infringement by Chinese firms.
1. The CFO arrest is about alleged business with Iran. It ain't got nothing to do with smartphones.
2. Registering fake companies to get access to a telco conference is just a minor swindle. It ain't got nothing to do with smartphones.
WSJ and Bloomberg Newsweek ran so many ridiculous stories but none of them had anything substantial against Huawei. They just wanted to play to their conservative turd-crowd...
" It ain't got nothing to do with smartphones." And who said it's about smartphones? The whole company's banned. If Kyocera's banned their smartphones will also be banned, not just their ceramics. Why are you looking for excuses for Huawei?
@s.yu "Why are you looking for excuses for Huawei?"
Nobody is looking for excuses for Huawei. It's just that if you're an uneducated hick getting your dose of "education" from news sites you'd be easily tricked into thinking Huawei is doing something egregious, instead of realizing that it's what *everyone* is doing. Only some companies don't get singled out because they grease the right wheels.
There. I just broke the mold and gave you real education on a news site.
I'm not "tricked into" thinking Huawei is doing something egregious. They've done many such things and their entire company culture from their track record means they don't deserve benefit of the doubt, somehow you're treating them like "any other company", they're not any other company!! I think the societal rules of the west has become so ingrained in you that you think the whole world operates like the west, it doesn't!! Go to Africa with only pocket cash and stay for a few months, get conned out of your underwear and rethink your position!
s.yu - to reiterate the point is making, Huawei are not *significantly different* from most other networking / smartphone companies in any of the areas in which you find cause for complaint. They all suck, albeit to varying extents.
You keep trying to insist that we're "brainwashed" by China - we're not. You're being rabidly partisan and using disagreement of evidence of partisanship on the part of people disagreeing with you. The logic is circular and it hurts my brain.
"in any of the areas in which you find cause for complaint" You're gonna have to be more specific about that. "You keep trying to insist that we're "brainwashed" by China" No, you're naïve to the threat posed by the Party and the extent to which Huawei will enforce the Party's will. It's billions of Chinese that are brainwashed by the Party, it breeds evil, and before you say Trump, yes, this is a magnitude worse, from Xi's status of dictatorship. And yes, asking for equal evidence on both sides is part of your naivety as you're oblivious to the fact that the obscurities of China's inner workings are far above that of the west, so if smelling the smoke isn't enough for you, you'll be stuck in the burning building, however we can agree to disagree on that.
Because guachi posted "there is no way I'd ever buy a Huawei phone and I'd never suggest anyone else buy one" and oyster answered with those two examples and I answered to him.
What is you're obsession with making Huawei and China bad?
"there is no way I'd ever buy a Huawei phone and I'd never suggest anyone else buy one" It's a simple boycott, you can't even recognize that? Was he gonna say "there is no way I'd ever buy a Huawei basestation and I'd never suggest anyone else buy one"?
"What is you're obsession with making Huawei and China bad?" China's brainwash. I'm sick of China's all-round Orwellian brainwash which has greatly intensified under Xi, I'd much rather like to see Jiang stick around. So I'd like to see them, especially Winnie, fail spectacularly. Huawei is the Party's pet, one of the greatest beneficiaries and proponents of the brainwash, as I mentioned before, Huawei is deified in China through the brainwash, which, considering their degenerate nature clearly proven from their track record of cheats and lies, greatly disgusts me. I would do whatever I could to help control this Huawei infestation.
China definitely commits foul play now and then but that wasn't the reason the trade war was started. It was started because Trump didn't like the trade deficit, which ironically isn't something that's dubious. The negotiations are also going in the wrong direction as well. You can't force the chinese to buy goods they don't want. If this administration wanted to stop the foul play that would be their primary demand. It isn't. Even in the best case scenario, America "wins" the trade war and China buys more American good. Great but that still doesn't fix the IP infringement and other issues.
"force the chinese to buy goods they don't want" That's often cited but not the main point in disagreement. "Even in the best case scenario, America "wins" the trade war and China buys more American good. Great but that still doesn't fix the IP infringement and other issues." No, the best case scenario is China ceases any form of forced IP transfer and IP infringement and dials down driving exports using subsidies.
"force the chinese to buy goods they don't want" That's often cited but not the main point in disagreement. "Even in the best case scenario, America "wins" the trade war and China buys more American good. Great but that still doesn't fix the IP infringement and other issues." No, the best case scenario is China ceases any form of forced IP transfer and IP infringement and dials down driving exports using subsidies.
"forced IP transfer and IP infringement": You are just repeating that bs you get from those said "news sites".
Every company starting a JV in China knows that they are sharing IP. That's not "forced".
+ "IP infringement" is based on national laws and ruling. That's not the same everywhere in the world.
You should ask yourself: If those products sold in the US or Europe by chinese companies infringe patents, why don't they sue them in the US or Europe based on local law??? You should stop watching Fox News.
"If you want to do business here you need to share your IP" "Give up your IP or lose this market" How TF is that not forced?? It's only most recently that foreign auto companies are allowed to start a JV in China with a majority stake! Many other industries are still off limits to foreign investments. "IP infringement" is based on national laws and ruling. That's not the same everywhere in the world. Yeah, for example India systematically allows stealing drug formulas, yes, totally legal by Indian law and therefore not IP infringement. Stoning is also legal in many parts of the middle east so it's not torture. Of course.
Nobody is forcing them to start a business in china. US companies decide themselves whether they want to do it or not. You must be really brainwashed to think that everyone is entitled to do business everywhere in every way they want.
"Yeah, for example India systematically allows stealing drug formulas, yes, totally legal by Indian law and therefore not IP infringement."
You probably meant it in a sarcastic way but it's 100% true. If that's the law than it's the law and it's not "stealing".
"So because they are so successful they have to open their market for other to make money." No, because they're at least as successful as others they should be asked to play by the same set of rules. Most of these trade barriers are allowed to remain in place because China joined the WTO as a developing country, now China's GDP by PPP has surpassed the US yet they still cling on to the handicaps meant for gimps.
China opened the market as much as they agreed for joining the WTO.The US can sue them at the WTO but the WTO doesn't force anyone to open markets in the way you and Trump want them to.
Once again: They don't have to open markets more, just because they are successful. They did what they agreed to. The rest is just your wishful thinking. Don't make up non-existing rules because you're begrudging them. This is just your BS.
"the WTO doesn't force anyone to open markets" Which is called a LOOPHOLE. Or else the WTO becomes a tool for "developing" countries, actual status aside to exploit “developed” countries! Spain and Italy are so pissed their economies are a mess yet they can't even trade on equal terms with China.
If you believe the Chinese figures. Even Chinese economists has doubts those numbers are real. https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article... https://themarket.ch/interview/the-real-economic-g... Western companies have known about the forced IP transfer situation in China for years. I have no sympathy for rich multinational corporations whining about the laws in China being against them. They either need to put up with it or get out. I'd rather they get out. Many companies are already planning to relocate to Vietnam, Malaysia or India where the local laws are less predatory.
Wow, interesting links. I've certainly learned something new. "I have no sympathy for rich multinational corporations whining about the laws in China being against them." Their power is still far limited compared to the Party. Under another Huawei article a guy whined about Google, and thought that Huawei is the answer. My reply to that was "If you want a predator for a raccoon infestation, you don't go for the boa constrictors, you'll find them much harder to eradicate". Huawei is not the boa, the Party is the boa, Huawei's a patch of scales on its ugly head, but I doubt if the top 20 corporations by market cap combined could match the Party's power. This is possibly the last chance to establish a set of fair trade rules between China and, at least the US. If the US could not get significant concessions from the Party, the world risks becoming China's monopoly for decades.
I'm amazed by the way people with supposedly conservative viewpoints can see a company as being "forced" to do business with China to access their supposed right to unlimited growth, yet will still argue that people "choose" to be homeless. Intellectual bankruptcy is ugly.
"Nobody is forcing them to start a business in china." If you put it this way then it's a trade barrier giving only Chinese business access to their own, vast, walled off market while Chinese businesses are free to do business anywhere else in the world because there's no forced IP transfer. It's called extortion. A few thugs stop you on the road: "Spare a little change handsome?" You're saying "nobody's forcing you to give up your money, you also have the choice to fight to the death". It needs to be torn down.
Chinese businesses are not free to do business anywhere in the world. State owned or strongly controlled businesses have always been under scrutiny in the west. They have been denied buying controlling stakes in important businesses many times.
"It needs to be torn down." Instead of trying to change china with petty tactics (they won't work. when did it ever work? Is russia doing what the US wants?), how about denying chinese companies to do business in the US where they see it as "unfair". But the US government is going crazy by even taxing products belonging to AMERICAN COMPANIES produced in china by chinese companies not doing business in the US.
"A few thugs stop you on the road: "Spare a little change handsome?"" Is this a road in my country ??? 1. US companies always knew what happens down that road towards another country. 2. They can always turn around without "fighting for death" You are a dork. Again: Nobody is forcing american companies to go to China.
"State owned or strongly controlled businesses have always been under scrutiny in the west. They have been denied buying controlling stakes in important businesses many times." Clearly you're the damn dork. That's state sponsored hostile takeover!! Who ever allowed foreign regimes to operate freely in another country! And it's part of China's state capitalist system that's anti-free trade in the first place, state owned businesses are inherently anti-competition, especially backed by the worlds most powerful party, they're wolves in the hen house. "But the US government is going crazy" And you're a hypocrite. Don't you support stoning because it's legal? Well the measures implemented in the trade war are legal, and unlike Chinese law which could be changed to the whims of Xi, American law is at least more rigid because of fluctuations in the control of the Senate and House. 1. US companies always knew what happens down that road towards another country. And that's why there's a world corruption scale, and other minor issues need to be addressed separately, but for now it's the Xi regime that needs to be dealt with urgently. 2. They can always turn around without "fighting for death" "It's effectively a forced situation because China is the only market growing above 3% right now." Yeah, it's rather telling them to turn around and die of thirst because thugs control the only well in walking distance.
Bitch you still didn't give a single reason. You're just whining that it's extortion, calling the world corrupt and that companies will die of thirst if they don't get access to china.
And with the stoning: Yes it's legal in some countries just like the chair or lethal injections are legal in the US...
Anti-state capitalist is anti-trust on a global scale, doodoo, open your eyes!! Well yeah, BITCH, or do you support the wall? Obviously it's illegal to cross the border without a visa and you will be detained indefinitely until you're granted asylum or deported, according to you any call to host the illegals is "whining" isn't it!
You'll be banned from entry in the first place. GM for example wanted to enter the Chinese market a couple decades ago and had no use for local funding, however they're forced to enter in the form of a JV, therefore SAIC-GM was born.
No, it was the realization that the rollout of 5G infrastructure was going to be rolled out by mostly Chinese manufacturers of which Huawei was one that was going to provide the new cell towers so it is only natural there was suspicion they could be used to monitor all types of US communications. Huawei is only a tiny part as far as trade deficit.
Quite interesting that every time an article about huawei is posted on anandtech, we can usually see this technical forum getting ruinned by political opinions, especially comments from id "s.yu". This is even weird for those other articles which have nothing to do with politics.
1. This article is full of political opinions. 2. I generally do not bring up politics unless Huawei apologists pop up playing the victim card, however they deserve much criticism even with politics aside as they're habitual liars, and their dishonest nature is largely independent from politics, though they're obviously more brazen with the Party at their back. And I will expose as many of their lies as possible. 3. What have you contributed to this forum??
Use the Internet Ian. You think its just the USA or Trump that has serious issues with Huawei? Many countries have sounded off on complaints about this company. Stop acting like some paid PR for them.
Use the Internet Jumangi. You think it's just me having issues with a spherical earth? Many people have said that the earth is flat. Stop acting like some paid PR for a round earth.
As the author of this article, I'm really surprised and disappointed that you don't know these things. A Huawei exec was arrested in Poland on espionage charges. You can easily Google that. China has national security laws (from 2015 or 2017) were it expects all Chinese nationals and companies to assist the government in an offensive and defensive capacity. You can easily Google that as well. Finally, you went into some detail about Huawei's ownership structure where 99% of the company is owned by their workforce via a union. You mention how the union controls the shares 'owned' by these employees. What you failed to mention is that ALL unions in China are government controlled and part of the CCP. So, in essence, Huawei is controlled by the Communist Party of China. Why you failed to mention this part is odd. So, it's clear as day that the CCP has a huge sway over Huawei and Huawei does the CCP's bidding internally and externally.
" ALL unions in China are government controlled and part of the CCP" Well, "legal unions", haha. I just heard a few months ago that there were "private unions" in China that were "illegal" and was a little confused. So "legal" ones are all controlled by the Party, makes sense, thanks for clearing that up.
I'm not saying I didn't know them. I'm merely stating that anyone who wants to bring stuff like this up needs to provide links.
We've been covering Huawei for 5+ years, and only now are people coming out of the woodwork on our comment section about this. We cover plenty of their Chinese companies, like Oppo, Xiaomi, even Lenovo, and yet nothing comes out when we talk about those.
You are correct, and Huawei is, in a word, evil, like the Party, their master. Oppo and Xiaomi will not touch infrastructure, nor do they receive special treatment from the Party, and Lenovo's technically an American company since years ago, only they pretend to still be Chinese in China, because of obvious reasons.
I'm not really talking about spying. I expect all security services in the world to do their best to spy on me in any way they can, and so should you. Otherwise they are not doing their job.
What I'm talking about is the bullshit loopsided tradelaws they have in China, and how western products which are part of en export ban to third nations has tendency to show up in those nations via China.
I think people are naive if they think the current US trade strategy isn't primarily a result of domestic politics and it's highly partisan nature.
Let's keep it simple. If the Democrats were currently in power do you think they would have the current stance on trade? Do you think the would have instead kept the Trans-Pacific Partnership?
There is a legacy play angle as well. Look at why there was such a pressing need to not only renegotiate NAFTA but to rename it.
Huawei should stop working as a stooge for chinese govt although we can't blame as in china you can't deny govt request if you do you are out of business some or the other way china wants to use these companies for spying
That's not about China at all - all governments have laws which they expect you to obey. Some enforce them better than others. The bigger the govt, the more enforcement typically. US & China are both world leaders at this.
China is entirely opaque. The US has media left and right exposing each other but China's media is under total control of the Party. What you see is what the Party wants you to see. You need to first get this.
Oh, just like how the NSA and its spying would have been exposed, if Snowden did not come out? I'm not a fan of the Chinese government either but let's not pretend the US is transparent
I'm not pretending that the US is transparent, it's vastly more transparent than China however. In China you could live in the east for years and not hear a word about how Xinjiang, some ~1/6 of China's land area, home to millions, is under martial law for the whole time. It takes only a tour to Xinjiang to realize that, and tourism is open to Chinese nationals, but when there you could hardly get a word out, social media posts are deleted and censored for almost no reason. Unless you're determined to spread information through private one-on-one chats (chat groups are also censored), nothing gets out. And even then you'd be detained if authorities realize you're leaking information on Xinjiang, which is possible if you're not very careful in picking friends. I'm only telling you this because a family member went for a week and experienced the martial law and censorship.
Don't bother his sleep. Ignorance is impossible to fight. I gave links on the first page but since we're most likely talking about hardcore uneducated hicks or paid troll farms nothing you say will change their opinion.
Oh you know about troll farms? Then know that Huawei is the expert of troll farms! Tell me you still remember this: https://9to5google.com/2018/02/12/huawei-mate-10-f... Huawei's paid trolls are famously known in China as their "navy", and they've been famous since at least as early as P8, and they're exporting their tried and true tactic. Note that no other major smartphone manufacturer has ever been tied to such a scandal!
That's old, Samsung was in a much weaker position back then than Huawei is now, and besides, "Sammy has since ended the practice of allowing its employees to post anonymous comments, describing the whole affair as "unfortunate" and one that went against its "fundamental principles"." whereas Huawei NEVER APOLOGIZES. Because they're shameless.
"Note that no other major smartphone manufacturer has ever been tied to such a scandal!" When presented with evidence that it was untrue, you moved the goalposts to "that was a long time ago and they apologized" - without accepting that you lied.
You've made a couple of good points here-and-there but for the most part you're presenting as rabidly partisan and, as such, not very trustworthy.
"without accepting that you lied" I did not lie, Huawei and their invincible army of drones and brainwashed illiterates came to my attention during the P8 era the second last time I was looking around for a smartphone upgrade, I had very little knowledge of the smartphone industry before that, that's why the whole list off the top of my head started with P8. The goalpost is that they're shameless, and significantly more so than all their competitors, it always has been, and they make it quite easy to prove as long as you keep track, being so brazenly and consistently shameless through all the years.
I realize that the two main reasons you're making such accusations is that you haven't read through the entire thread before replying to each individual post and that you're biased towards Huawei because you own their hardware. As such you can accuse me of moving the goalpost while the other guy could only find THREE examples all more than HALF A DECADE ago from TWO companies in response to A WHOLE STRING of misconduct by Huawei ALONE that's committed on a roughly biannual basis! Chipping a corner off my argument doesn't disprove the thesis, and I think you know that, but you're biased with your rose tinted glasses that you like Huawei's hardware so they can't be evil. I forgive you for your partisanship and ignorance.
No comment on the political situation - there's nothing to be had in doing so in a comments box anyway. AOSP might be a good thing. An unlocked bootloader is a rare critter these days so that would be a consumer-friendly boon. Of GMS apps, I use Maps (rarely) and the Play Store that's it. The rest of the stuff like that annoying search bar thing, Drive, Hangouts, and a chunk of other Google bloat gets adb disabled, but not having that stuff there at all would be even better. Even I might go grey market spelunking to get a Huawei phone if it gets me less Google spyware. I can sideload anything I already own by gutting it out of an existing phone as a .apk file or just do without.
agree totally my last 3 phones have been huawei and they have been great getting an openly unlocked bootloader (thats always been possible btw) and no stupid google apps to have to disable is to me a bonus happy days
Interesting. The last Huawei phone I used was running Jelly Bean so it's been a very long time since I've used their hardware. It was very easy to root though and was a nice device.
Their hardware's been consistently solid for a while - they tend to have one of the best SoCs available, decent displays and really solid camera modules. I had an absolute nightmare trying to successfully flash a P10 Plus with anything other than its stock firmware, though - I don't know how that looks with their newer phones, but it might be worth doing detailed research on beforehand.
I take it that's a declaration of conflict of interest then? Alright, here's mine: I had a Nokia, two Motorolas, two Sonys, and two Samsungs as personal phones before. My next will either be an Asus ROGP2 or a Vivo NEX3, unless LG gives me a pleasant surprise with something notchless with good specs.
I know someone who is a Chinese linguist in the Navy. She'd never buy any product from Huawei. They deserve to be locked out of the US market. Too much of a security risk.
No, dude's right, I also spoke to the same navy linguist and she strongly recommended NSA approved Cisco routers and Windows OS since these are all but guaranteed to have almost every flaw already known/introduced by a crack team of computer experts always working in your best interest.
I forgot to ask why every other chinese phone manufacturer isn't banned yet... I guess the others like OnePlus found a way to resist the evil empire.
If I were Chinese, had Chinese relatives or Chinese friends, I would not buy a China market phone. Even their global market phones I'd have to vet through rooted ADB commands before I'd have any confidence in their security (Xiaomi, I'm looking at you for Mi Feedback)...actually, that's not different for any Android phones...still trying to figure out what exactly com.qualcomm.perfdump logs and where it's sending that data.
For Richard Yu it was always a game. Huawei reeks of deception under his leadership. They're habitual liars. I still remember years ago when P8 was their laughable "flagship" that Richard said during the press conference that "Our flagship is second to none." Anandtech reviewed that device back then, it was LAST PLACE by essentially every metric. When you have ZERO advantage the basic decency is to shut up, not lie through your teeth!!! Then think of all their lies through the years, they ripped off Sony's Omnibalance and called it their own, they faked the most samples of all the smartphone manufacturers yet never apologized, they lied about inventing the notch (no patent!!) but not implementing it before Apple in fear of "bad reception", they lied about the GPU Turbo improvements exaggerating them 5-6x, they lied about Kirin 970 or was it 980 being superior to Apple's A chip that generation, they lied for two generations about 960fps slo-mo which was in fact interpolated from 480 and 240 fps, they faked the moon shot on P30P and this is just off the top of my head! The full list would be 3-4 times as long. Along with the fact that they're the Party's pet yet they go around spreading lies about being a mere "private" company, controlled by employees (this latter part is also a lie as it was exposed that the company is controlled by a handful of people who employees have no right in electing), this is an utterly despicable company.
Ah, typical Huawei apologist? Then go address my longer post of the list of Huawei lies. Huawei lies on a scale of about the other 3 of the top 4 combined. They are the No.1 liar! Yeah, everyone makes mistakes sometimes, but the one who shamelessly goes on and on is Huawei!
You really go though length to dig out the really old junk, every one of Huawei's lies I exposed is newer and reflects the CURRENT company culture! And again, like they faked the 960fps slo-mo the last two generations, the 7000+fps is faked though a 1 to 4 frame interpolation!
Huawei didn't say anything about "inventing the notch". They claimed that they considered and scrapped the idea of a notch because it wouldn't have been well received. That's not very unbelievable, given that designers innovate and scrap ideas all the time.
Why say it even? They don't have a patent to back them up, it's their word against patents about who thought of it first. I could claim that I thought of curved screens before Samsung, does it matter? They're only able to make such empty claims because they're deified by the brainwash of the Party, and by saying so they're exploiting the empty brainwashed minds of many average Chinese knowing many will interpret it as their originality whatever the case. And this isn't the first time, back around P9 one of their ads boasted "dual camera heritage", they're about the third to the market with dual cameras and they're only on their second generation of dual cameras, it's not their damn heritage! But making such empty boasts will get to the brainwashed and ignorant and that's always their plan.
True of False, Huawei operates at the pleasure of the Chinese Communist party and must obey?
That is the bottom line, in the west Corporations can say NO to Governments. Apple does it all the time with requests to unlock iPhones by the US Government.
But in China, can you say the same for Huawei, can you say that if the Chinese Communist party told them to backdoor every device, they would say No? That they could say No?
The CIA stealing Apple shipments and putting in spy chips is entirely different from the Chinese Communist Party telling Huawei to backdoor their devices, and Huawei having to do it OR ELSE.
The Communist Party will not be swayed by anybody but Xi for the foreseeable future. It would be interesting to see who emerges as his successor though as he succeeded in jailing both of his most notable political opponents.
Yep, they did that for Cisco routers and switches (intercepted shipments and implanted chips) to some middle eastern countries back in the 90's. The point is, they intercepted shipments. They did not force Cisco to back door the device themselves. They conducted espionage by themselves, not forced a manufacturer to do it for them.
Yeah, sounds like what would happen in China. If you disobey the Party, they will get to you. Wang Jianlin, the previous wealthiest person in China, previously disobeyed the Party by refusing to rein in his investments abroad during a time when China was at a lack for foreign currency, the Party instructed all domestic banks to sever his loans abruptly under assorted pretenses and his whole business empire came to a screeching halt. He had to dump most of his assets and eventually lost some 90% of his net worth.
Have you heard of the 'Canary-in-a-coal-mine' indicators? It's when a company puts up a website that typically states something along the lines of: "Our Company has not received a gag order by the government on <today's date> " It's manually updated every day. It's designed to bypass gag orders which can not order you to actively lie. You can do that in the US as the US has rule of law. Can not do that in China.
codswallop this is nothing to do with any sying etc this is just the usual American protectionism thats designed wholly to keep a US company Apple at the top of the sales charts and to ensure the USA population doesnt get a taste of the freedom they have been missing for years, yes of course there is the chance the phones can be used for spying but the same can be said of any piece of tech as sophisticated as these are but that can work both ways in fact the biggest cases recently of spying and data misuse have come from US companies, Facebook, Google and Apple along with Microsoft all have massive reams of information on all that there customers do anyway as do most apps that are installed
Arrogance is plainly stupid. Have some common sense about China's protectionist measures which have been in place for so long some people pretend they don't exist before you accuse the US of being protectionist.
Who gives a shit about Chinese or US protectionism? That's their respective problem and every country has to decide what's best for them. I don't care if Huawei products can't get sold in the US.
My problem: How does the US benefit from forbidding US companies to do business with Huawei outside of the US? Like selling semiconductors or offering services(google). This ain't protectionism, this is the government putting pressure on the Chinese economy at the expense of US companies...
"How does the US benefit from forbidding US companies to do business with Huawei outside of the US?"
Really? Huawei WILL listen in if they're handed a portion of your infrastructure. They are Huawei, the Party's lapdog. If you think they play by the rules on the table, or if you even think they violate the rules no more than you do, then you are naive and you will be thrown off your feet. And no, Nokia listening in on behalf of Finland is not nearly as worrying, if it's even possible in the first place. Compared to the rest of the world, most northern Europeans are too civilized for their own good. Compared to China and the likes of Iran, the whole west is too civilized for their own good.
There are too many examples but I'll just give a set of typical ones. A couple weeks ago the first Costco in China was opened in Shanghai. Thousands rushed in applying for membership, their target? The cheap Maotai and other luxury items meant as temporary loss leaders, and not for self use, but to sell for a profit. Although each membership was allowed only one of each item each checkout, the scalpers who got in managed to profit thousands each "run", the especially industrious ones--the whole family, from the grandma to the grandson--entered 3 times in a morning and got away with almost a dozen sets, for a profit of almost 6 digit RMB. Two weeks later there was a surge in membership refunds, because Costco stopped carrying the luxury items. Costco was played.
They failed to learn the lesson from Amway, which, around 2 decades ago entered China with their set of rules that worked in every other market, but not China. Amway had a generous refund policy of a full refund for any product, used or not, for any reason at all. They found that for weeks their stores were filled with housewives buying, and housewives returning half-empty containers for a full refund. They came to their senses that they simply took the products home, poured out half and came back for a full refund, and changed their policy in China so that refunds only cover whatever portion of the product is left unused, so the conning finally stopped. Amway was played.
These are just ordinary Chinese, and the Party's top is not stupid, they're masters of trickeries and do not deserve to be met with trust and generosity.
So you basically just want to teach china a lesson??? You basically just showed that you want to force your fucked up ideology on other countries.
A weakling like you always thinks everyone is trying to attack/exploit you.
"Compared to China and the likes of Iran, the whole west is too civilized for their own good." Wow you're a mess.
Stop writing about "the west" like they share exactly the same values. You can see the difference how the US and Europe behave towards Huawei or even Iran(what's your obsession with Iran anyway? I bet an Iranian dude took your girl.) Go eat some freedom fries...
WTF is wrong with you, doodoo? "So you basically just want to teach china a lesson???" How many brainfucks have you had to be spewing such BS? I'm telling you that, if you assume that China is a sheep just because there's no direct unclassified evidence to show otherwise, you will be fucked over and over in ways you cannot imagine!! "everyone is trying to attack/exploit you" No you turd, an arrogant idiot like you thinks you've seen it all and is invulnerable against all the world has to throw at you. China IS trying to attack you, as for Iran, if their economy quadruples see to it that they will. "You can see the difference how the US and Europe" Merkel's made a huge mistake allowing the surge of refugees, she made another huge mistake playing with fire(Xi), however the EU is not a single sovereignty and their growth is also more stagnant, many EU industrial exports rely heavily on the Chinese market, "they need to eat", that's the main reason. The UK has done what it could within the restraints of its financial status for example, and the route of communications between the US and UK remains uncompromised.
It was only a matter of time until s.yu's racism became more explicit. "allowing the surge of refugees" implies that the refugees would not have been trying to leave had Germany rejected them - and that's patently false. Given the role numerous Western nations played in enabling the holocaust by rejecting Jewish refugees, it's a remarkable sign of Germany's development as a nation that they lead the way in accepting people fleeing the Syrian civil war.
In summary: screw you, s.yu, and your nonsensical right-wing babble.
By crying racism at just the hint of refugees you certainly sound like a stupid white left. It's not racism, it's the unrestrained human nature common in most parts of the globe to want to game any system when available. "the refugees would not have been trying to leave had Germany rejected them" If you mean leaving Syria, of course they were leaving Syria, but there are many non-warzones, often closer to Syria to be aiming for instead of just Germany, and the most developed nations like Norway etc. where they caused widespread disruption that often aren't even reported by mainstream media in fear of the smearing from stupid white left like you.
It's the US government doing something about all the whining those international corporations have been doing about China for the past decade. It will hurt them (the corporations) in the short run, but in the long run it dampens investment in China and redistributes capital elsewhere, like China's neighbors. Even the Chinese have been looking into moving their manufacturing offshore because of rising labor costs this decade.
How does the US benefit? It benefits by economically short-circuiting a military near-peer that has become increasingly aggressive over the past 2 decades. The rationale: It beats having another arms race like it did with the Soviet Union, especially one where your tech companies are feeding it R&D.
@namisecond - that's genuinely the most rational take on this from the pro-US-strategy side that I've seen. Thanks for that.
I still don't believe it's the primary motivator behind US actions, as they'd need to be more consistent for that to truly make sense - but it seems plausible that at least some of the more intelligent players in US foreign policy have that goal in mind.
I see people here in the comments and in general still don't understand all this US China trade war. This is not about spying or military. This is only about money. Trump is angry that China is getting richer than US and other big countries would like, so this is an under the belt blow for China to make it understand that its success is reliant on other countries investing tons of money there. In the end it is not China fault that all countries went there to produce stuff cheaper. It was expected but everyone hoped things will stay under control, that is US still rules the world and everybody else listen to them. Well, matter of the fact is that they are slowly getting behind China and this is what Trump has come up with...
It isn't about that, US companies are largely against the current trade strategies. The US has initiates trade conflicts with several other countries/entities (such as the EU) which are traditionally what would be considered aligned with the US.
The reason for the current stance is certainly purely due to internal US politics. It appeals to the base of the sitting President and party in power. The benefit is potential political points. I suspect there is a legacy play involved as well, see the the pressing need to no only renegotiate NAFTA but rename it.
If the goal was actually to attack China than the US would not have withdrawn from the Trans-Pacific Partnership that the previous administration negotiated. The strategy behind that accord was to isolate China. But do highly partisan US politics and the whims of the current President you can't have that as it was negotiated by the other party and the previous President.
It's disappointing that Anandtech is hosting the lies of Richard Yu, a known clown, even in China. He's equally notorious in the circle for laughable bragging and lying with Luo Yonghao, the previous head of Smartisan. However Luo Yonghao's notoriety stems partly from his sympathetic remarks with Japan, which goes against nationalist brainwash, OTOH Richard Yu, being Huawei CEO, is an obvious beneficiary of nationalist brainwash, so his notoriety is solely the result of his own clowning.
This is a transcription of an interview. 24 press from common high profile tech media asking any questions they like. I asked two questions: boot loader unlocking and bringing 5G to midrange devices. All other questions were from other media.
Did you read this? And compare it to say NYT's coverage about Trump? "Each iteration comes with enhancements to the core elements of the Huawei ethos: design, performance, and user experience." "In Huawei’s own words, ‘we bring a lot of profit to US companies’." "US companies lose out on not only revenue but a strong technically minded powerhouse that has the ability to help improve both sides of the equation" And “This US ban has destroyed this industry”, “We Bring a Lot of Profit to US Companies”, “Huawei is a Bargaining Chip. We Follow All Local Laws.” are in bold highlighted font. This is the tone of a mouthpiece, while NYT refutes a remark three different ways every time they cite Trump. Besides, very little of this is news, most of it has been mentioned before, even the political charged lies.
>Some people cite that Ren Zhengei, one of its founders, was a senior member of China’s ruling Communist Party, and that being in China means having to comply with its data laws and share information with the government. Huawei insists it is not controlled or even directed by the state,
Here is a quote I love from twitter.
"China’s ability to fire the CEO of Cathay Pacific shows how irrelevant it is to ask who technically owns Huawei. What matters is whether the state has effective control, not legal control, and we know the answer to that for any company in or even near China."
"Just days after Meng was detained on a U.S. extradition request, China threw two Canadians into jail on spying allegations, then later put another two on death row, and halted nearly $5 billion ($3.8 billion) worth of Canadian agricultural imports."
Sure, they are a company just like any other... /s
Hi Dr. Ian Cutress, seeing as how this site (Anandtech) has elected to publish an opinion piece from the CEO of a foreign-owned corporation in an attempt to sway US public opinion with regard to US law, do you plan to register yourself as a foreign agent of China? Thank you.
This is a transcription of an interview. 24 press from common high profile tech media asking any questions they like. I asked two questions: boot loader unlocking and bringing 5G to midrange devices. All other questions were from other media.
Great scripted response. Same thing on last page also.
I wonder how come AT asking about Bootloader Unlock ? I never saw any article on AT mentioning about Modding on Android. In fact mo mention of Scoped Storage either which ruins Android or the A/B parition system with new RootFs and Dynamic Partitions ruining Custom ROM scene / BL unlock due to slotted and no dedicated recovery partition.
And 5G to midrange ? Can I laugh please ? 5G mmWave is slowpaced and US who is always 1 in latest technologies in comm opted for this delayed and hard path. Just because UK decided for dumping all the Huawei into their ecosystem doesn't mean whole World will bend. SK is the first to bring 5G to masses and I see nil articles on that when you have Samsung LG pushing for that.
But yeah we get a nice stuffed article for Huawei and their CEO in subertive fashion for CPC and China, why don't you publish the piece of Apple selling their iCloud keys to CPC owned entity or the VPN situation in China since AT is now Politech... But yeah AT doesn't want to know about EROFS ? Huawei filesystem which doesn't allow Write Access and EMUI killing Apps favoring their bloatware. Suddenly wants to know about Bootloader. And yes BL won't be unlockable. And Press has pushed enough of this CEOs BS making in the context of Would to "Will".
Sad.
Kudos, AT lost their whole Mojo and now posting this junk is disappointing.
Aw...Twitter. The Great Firewall is operating at maximum capacity due to proximity to National Day and I've had little luck with any of the Nord's dozens of obfuscated nodes since yesterday. Thanks anyway, I'll keep the link for later.
You seem to be very triggered over a simple, factual response. Perhaps you should consider that Ian is simply doing the job of a proper news site and reporting on factual events? Such as this interview with Huawei CEO.
If all media stopped reporting things that are dubious or straight up lies, I reckon we wouldn't see much news about Trump, if at all.
Actually, you wouldn't see much news at all as the media tends runs with their own narratives, dubious things, and lies. Let's not play politics on a Tech site please.
Trump is living in the past. Build walls, "bringing back manufacturing jobs", open up coal mines, now entering another cold war with China, Bernie for 2020.
Despite the ridiculousness of it all, too many people believe it. It's what got him elected in the first place. We are well on our way to a cold war with China, but don't lay all the blame at the feet of the US. China's actions over the past 2 decades have made it very easy.
If Huawei did not wish to encounter difficulties from the United States, it should not have sold equipment containing U.S. technology to Iran through a subsidiary it attempted to conceal. This is why one of their senior managers is awaiting extradition to the U.S.; if anyone has the right to complain about politicians playing games, it is the Canadian people, as two of our nationals have been arrested on false spying charges and are still being held in China.
If Huawei were based in Taiwan Id buy their products. Im not giving a dime to any Chinese State Run Company. Don’t particularly care for the way their treat their neighbors, much less their own people. Whatever happened to the owners wealthy daughter who got arrested in Canada? She seemed to like her Communist overlords. Probably didnt have a choice either...
If Huawei were based in Taiwan...frankly there wouldn't be such a company. It's precisely their ties to the Party that got them this far. They're free to run wild, with governmental support in many aspects, in arguably the largest single market in the world. That wouldn't be the case if they're based in Taiwan, nor does Taiwan operate in such a fashion.
Ive never seen AnandTech wade into politics or serve as political advertisement until now. I was always happy you all avoided it. I also get you have to ask bc it does affect the industry and their products but softball much? The US, the EU, UK, African Countries have all had issues with their practices and tactics tied to the Chinese government. He pretty much put on a woe is me, innocent victim when that's clearly not the case. Would have been nice to follow up questions pertaining to those issues.
Even better, just stay out of the political arena. I like AnandTech to have only one agenda. Tech. Not this mess.
He most likely is an innocent victim... of the CPC. It's hard to run a huge business in the US without angering the government. In China it's almost impossible.
Doubtful. "CEO's" of Chinese corporations are there bc of their political ties. Basically the party gives a their man a ton of cash and tech they stole and say, start a business. They do and they are at the whim of the PRC.
Chinese phones and electronics are another mean of intelligence gathering for PRC. Huawei are in the most dangerous position due to their sheer size and big portfolio of communication equipment like cellular equipment. This actually makes them a national security threat. Remember that those companies obey the PRC demands and will do what they are asked for without any objections.
I think it is foolish to expect any government to provide proof or evidence. Most evidence is acquired by nefarious means. Evil is at the heart of espionage just ask Google.
Leaving all the arguments from the comment section aside, why is this on Anandtech? This is not tech news, not by a long shot. Even more, it's a person who's widely known to be a chronic liar. Since when has Huawei become the allfather of this site? (i've been reading it since its inception and i actually made an account, today, to post this - this is beyond infuriating).
Huawei's approach is leaving backdoors masqueraded as bugs. If found out, they would just claim they are normal bugs like any other software would have. Basically their strategy is if US has the moral high ground, then China will have US constrained by your own rules. And China's upper hand is they don't have any rules, it's totalitarianism over there. They can do whatever they want. They are convinced they are flexible enough to defeat any democratic country with rules. That's also why Trump is the president they deserve, as he doesn't like playing by the rules either.
Have a look at this website news. NO way i getting one after reading this. https://www.wired.com/story/horrifying-way-to-get-... It amazing how fast Huawei rose up in the phone industry. I think they were the ones whom brought down Nortel.
Yeah politicians are playing games alright, but your politicians arent the same as the rest of the world you see, because your politicians (Chinese communist party) not only steal copyright technology from everyone but the company is owned by the Chinese Communist party not the people of China. If you don't believe me then look what what happened to Alibaba founder Jack Ma did when the Chinese communist party asked him to step down, he just did. Also they keep finding built in spyware on Chinese hardware that is shipped to the West even on mobile phones.
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Kvaern1 - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
"A: This kind of trade war is not good for two great nations. "I suggest Huawei starts lobbying the the chinese regime for fair trade laws then.
The problem is of course that in China they only have 2 lines, the partyline and the end of life line if you happen not to agree with he partyline.
close - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Whether you want to admit it or not the US looks pretty much the same these days.Also notice the distinct absence of evidence for any of the accusations made (very undemocratic and anti-freedom wouldn't you say?), and the fact that US companies that have a track record of accidental flaws and backdoors, or were in any way directly implicated in nation wide spying scandals are still free to "ensure freedom" worldwide.
This is not to excuse China by any means. I'm just suggesting one must try to take a break from constantly defending one side while pointing fingers at the other since shoveling shit must be a hard job.
Kishoreshack - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
there is evidencenot only in US Huawei has also been caught in African countries & in Europe spying
gathering user data unethically
Ian Cutress - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
You can't just say that and not give links.guachi - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
I have no links, but there is no way I'd ever buy a Huawei phone and I'd never suggest anyone else buy one, either.close - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
So... that's a no to the evidence question? Thought so. Anyway, the point wasn't just that there's no evidence to support the "national security" scenario. Given how this ban looks to be more like a negotiation you'd think it's either not a real threat or some US politicians are also putting the country's security at risk all by themselves by not acting thus being complicit (gotta fill those pockets).How come Cisco isn't banned? They're the poster child of "oh that backdoor? no that was a test, some lazy dev must have forgotten the hardcoded key" or them being (unwitting) accomplices to the NSA's effort to SPY ON THE WHOLE WORLD (especially US and China).
How about MS, seeing how DoD has official access to the source code and (unrelated) some other government branches like NSA have amassed huge caches of exploits?
How about Intel, with its omnipresent ME controller and blackbox FW in *every* CPU?
https://quickview.cloudapps.cisco.com/quickview/bu...
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3005709/how-cisco-...
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/201...
https://www.zdnet.com/article/shadow-brokers-lates...
https://hackaday.com/2017/12/11/what-you-need-to-k...
See what I did there? Links. So now you'll go home knowing I'm right (and a bit of an a-hole, granted) and you're wrong, and you'll take it out on Huawei (I'm good with that).
BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
First, let me thank you for providing some backup to your statements in the form of supporting articles (links). This would allow for further discussion, though I will simply state that I find most of your points valid. Part of the problem with the discussion on this thread is that the original poster, the poster that responded to you, and the poster you responded to are all different posters, so there is less continuity of thought.As to the evidence question: A quick search turned up a few articles on the African and European spying:
https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/14/huawei-employees...
https://bgr.com/2019/08/14/huawei-spying-political...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hu...
I do not profess the accuracy of these articles. I am merely posting these to a make a few points. Not providing evidence isn't proof that evidence doesn't exists. That said, it is hard to hold a productive discussion if there isn't some form of support for your statements. Also, available evidence isn't proof of correctness as the quality, accuracy, and interpretation of evidence varies.
BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
For instance, you suggest that MS should be banned because they gave the U.S. DoD has access to their source code and (unrelated) the NSA has a large cache of exploits for their OS. However, the supporting article gives not evidence of U.S. DoD influence on code development. So a different interpretation might be that the U.S. DoD wants access to the code base to make sure there isn't malicious foreign influence. After all, Microsoft is a multinational company and operates in countries not entirely friendly to the U.S. DoD. As to the NSA exploits, the linked article suggests that the majority of them are for old (EOL) operating systems. Even some of the exploits that Hacker Fantastic found to work on all versions of windows, he clarified were run against systems that were not fully patched (per the article). What the article doesn't provide is evidence that the cache of exploits for MS operating systems is larger than that of other operating systems. Though it is questionable, it is entirely possible that the NSA has a larger or more relevant cache of exploits for iOS, Android, or even Linux. Using this interpretation there is no reason to dismiss MS. While the cynic in me wants to dismiss such an benign interpretation as unmerited, there is not yet any evidence in the discussion to suggest this. Again, this is just an example of interpretation of evidence. It wouldn't take long to produce evidence supporting the idea that Microsoft, like most other corporations, is an entity whose actions align with the goal of profitability and have not always been in the end user's best interest.inperfectdarkness - Saturday, September 28, 2019 - link
So evidence of spying conducted by the government of a country with free speech & freedom of the press---being forthcoming---somehow invalidates the non-forthcoming nature of the spying conducted by a communist, press-controlled state? That is to say, because the evidence is more easily covered up and subverted...that somehow China is blameless?I would not trust a Chinese smartphone period. Huawei or any other. I trust Kaspersky infinitely more than I trust Huawei.
s.yu - Saturday, September 28, 2019 - link
It's exactly what these apologists are saying.techgadgetgeek - Sunday, September 29, 2019 - link
The US is no angel here. Many US companies have profited big time because of the Chinese. Had the US companies not been doing business with the Chinese 1/3 of the current index valuations in the US would be gone. If Huawei Aline sells 400 million smartphones per year with Google Play on them at $40 per smartphone in licensing/royalty fees just how much is Google making off of that alone? Do these profits not help Google’s stock in the US? Do these profits not enable Google to pay high salaries to Americans working for Google in America? Does the government not get a 30% cut out of their salaries as well? The list goes on and on..sroy949 - Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - link
The ascent of Huawei happened through FRAUD and the stealing of intellectual properties. In addition, China being an authoritarian state, one will be a FOOL to think that Huawei is NOT an extension of the Chinese government.We all know what the Chinese government is like!!!
If Huawei is so honest WHY don't they come clear with stealing intellectual properties of Nortel - pretty much the basis of where Huawei is today??
https://nationalpost.com/news/exclusive-did-huawei...
https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nort...
http://natoassociation.ca/why-canada-should-be-war...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei
The Chinese trolls here will scream and bray to say that Huawei is all above board and ANY accusation against it - according to them - is malicious.
Huawei is FAR FAR worse than that. There is INDEED evidence
After Huawei's Chief Financial Officer Meng Wanzhou was arrested in China, the Chinese government PROMPTLY arrested three INNOCENT Canadian citizens on TRUMPED UP charges and all of them are facing death penalties.
To think that this is a mere coincidence is to dream in color!!!!
CraigIsSatoshiBsvIsBitcoin - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
I don't buy any Apple/Motorola/Google/etc. phones for the same reason. Spyware, spyware, spywareDragonstongue - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
ummm just cause not buy a phone with them "on the sticker"what OS does your phone use
Android, iOS, MSFT?
seems like, you want a phone, no choice, you/we are basically forced into one of them "spying" corporations..trick, turn off all that trcking stuff (90% can be turned off) the remaing 10% or so, no choice at least NA, security holes for a variety of reasons.
my simple thinking "it is a corrupt world, we lock our doors and such, only make sense that which seems attached to everyone's hand is at least as good security measures"
overall
they have been
^.^
----------------
that being said, I not buy Moto anymore (not close to live to expectation) not willing to play flagship level pricing for phones that have a battery 1/2 to 1/3 the size of the "budget" phones others not so flagship offer (i.e why LG/Samsung etc constant slap high end stuff in their phones but make it limp along with a battery BUILT IN that if you use all them parts "all out" your lucky if you do not have to sit beside a plug....
I got Xiaomi, nearly same class of part selection, but at least they (entire line) is effectively 3k-4400 size (day and a half to over a week in my case, listen to music, talk, notes etc)
ExarKun333 - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
My understanding is the evidence was gathered via FISA and the US government has filed action against Huawei. The problem is the evidence is marked as 'classified' and hasn't been released.close - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Even assuming the evidence exists (I'm sure they're into A LOT of shady and illegal things) the fact that the US is pushing other countries to cut ties with Huawei is evidence of shoveling sh*t, as I was saying, considering it's coming from the home of the NSA.BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Most governments are more prone to acting in their own interest than against their interest for the benefit of others. Consider the EU fining Intel for offering (illegal) incentives to forgo AMD products while not even investigating the European collaborators who accepted and profited from these incentives. Also, consider the Chinese policy that they will not extradite a Chinese citizen for crimes committed in another country. Finally, and most relevantly, consider the U.S. decision to take international action against Huawei for actions that U.S. companies have been complicit or even collaborative in since before Huawei even became a multinational company.Spunjji - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
Your first example here - about Intel - only really seems to fit the point you made because of your limited framing. You're right that the EU didn't go after any of the European collaborators, but they didn't go after any of the US collaborators (Dell, HP, IBM) either - they went after the source of the problem.santiagodraco - Sunday, October 20, 2019 - link
Here's the big difference you seem to miss.Go try to publish this story in China and carry on this discussion there and see what happens.
Oyster - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
The arrest of a CFO of a multinational giant like Huawei is no child's play.https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/me...
All we hear are claims of denial, but there's been real reporting on the topic.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/huaweis-yearslong-ris...
"Jesse Hong, a software architect at Huawei’s California unit, said in a lawsuit that his bosses ordered him in November 2017 to use fake company names to register himself for an industry conference organized by Facebook Inc. The social-media giant had invited other companies to a Telecom Infra Project meeting, a collaboration on network design, but excluded Huawei. The suit was confidentially settled in April. Mr. Hong said he refused to carry out the directive, leading his supervisor to unleash a stream of abuse and a threat: “If you don’t agree on this, then you quit right now.” After Mr. Hong declined, Huawei fired him. The company says it acted in good faith."
AT folks better be unbiased and be careful in pandering to one party over another. If mass media culture is to be believed (and at the expense of being facetious), even HBO's Silicon Valley has some decent portrayal of IP infringement by Chinese firms.
brakdoo - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
1. The CFO arrest is about alleged business with Iran. It ain't got nothing to do with smartphones.2. Registering fake companies to get access to a telco conference is just a minor
swindle. It ain't got nothing to do with smartphones.
WSJ and Bloomberg Newsweek ran so many ridiculous stories but none of them had anything substantial against Huawei. They just wanted to play to their conservative turd-crowd...
Now who is biased AT or Oyster???
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
" It ain't got nothing to do with smartphones."And who said it's about smartphones? The whole company's banned. If Kyocera's banned their smartphones will also be banned, not just their ceramics.
Why are you looking for excuses for Huawei?
close - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
@s.yu "Why are you looking for excuses for Huawei?"Nobody is looking for excuses for Huawei. It's just that if you're an uneducated hick getting your dose of "education" from news sites you'd be easily tricked into thinking Huawei is doing something egregious, instead of realizing that it's what *everyone* is doing. Only some companies don't get singled out because they grease the right wheels.
There. I just broke the mold and gave you real education on a news site.
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
I'm not "tricked into" thinking Huawei is doing something egregious.They've done many such things and their entire company culture from their track record means they don't deserve benefit of the doubt, somehow you're treating them like "any other company", they're not any other company!!
I think the societal rules of the west has become so ingrained in you that you think the whole world operates like the west, it doesn't!!
Go to Africa with only pocket cash and stay for a few months, get conned out of your underwear and rethink your position!
Spunjji - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
s.yu - to reiterate the point is making, Huawei are not *significantly different* from most other networking / smartphone companies in any of the areas in which you find cause for complaint. They all suck, albeit to varying extents.You keep trying to insist that we're "brainwashed" by China - we're not. You're being rabidly partisan and using disagreement of evidence of partisanship on the part of people disagreeing with you. The logic is circular and it hurts my brain.
s.yu - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
"in any of the areas in which you find cause for complaint"You're gonna have to be more specific about that.
"You keep trying to insist that we're "brainwashed" by China"
No, you're naïve to the threat posed by the Party and the extent to which Huawei will enforce the Party's will. It's billions of Chinese that are brainwashed by the Party, it breeds evil, and before you say Trump, yes, this is a magnitude worse, from Xi's status of dictatorship.
And yes, asking for equal evidence on both sides is part of your naivety as you're oblivious to the fact that the obscurities of China's inner workings are far above that of the west, so if smelling the smoke isn't enough for you, you'll be stuck in the burning building, however we can agree to disagree on that.
s.yu - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
Correction, I suppose calling 1.4 billion "billions" is questionable, since it's less than two therefore probably not a plural.Minor detail.
Total Meltdowner - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
Found the chinese-"American" with this guy close.Defending Huawei spying and then bashing conservatives at the same time. He's just angry. Probably hates President Donald J Trump too.
brakdoo - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Because guachi posted "there is no way I'd ever buy a Huawei phone and I'd never suggest anyone else buy one" and oyster answered with those two examples and I answered to him.What is you're obsession with making Huawei and China bad?
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
"there is no way I'd ever buy a Huawei phone and I'd never suggest anyone else buy one"It's a simple boycott, you can't even recognize that? Was he gonna say "there is no way I'd ever buy a Huawei basestation and I'd never suggest anyone else buy one"?
"What is you're obsession with making Huawei and China bad?"
China's brainwash. I'm sick of China's all-round Orwellian brainwash which has greatly intensified
under Xi, I'd much rather like to see Jiang stick around. So I'd like to see them, especially Winnie, fail spectacularly.
Huawei is the Party's pet, one of the greatest beneficiaries and proponents of the brainwash, as I mentioned before, Huawei is deified in China through the brainwash, which, considering their degenerate nature clearly proven from their track record of cheats and lies, greatly disgusts me. I would do whatever I could to help control this Huawei infestation.
regsEx - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
It's not even swindle, since Huawei was excluded, they played fairevernessince - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
China definitely commits foul play now and then but that wasn't the reason the trade war was started. It was started because Trump didn't like the trade deficit, which ironically isn't something that's dubious. The negotiations are also going in the wrong direction as well. You can't force the chinese to buy goods they don't want. If this administration wanted to stop the foul play that would be their primary demand. It isn't. Even in the best case scenario, America "wins" the trade war and China buys more American good. Great but that still doesn't fix the IP infringement and other issues.s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
"force the chinese to buy goods they don't want"That's often cited but not the main point in disagreement.
"Even in the best case scenario, America "wins" the trade war and China buys more American good. Great but that still doesn't fix the IP infringement and other issues."
No, the best case scenario is China ceases any form of forced IP transfer and IP infringement and dials down driving exports using subsidies.
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
"force the chinese to buy goods they don't want"That's often cited but not the main point in disagreement.
"Even in the best case scenario, America "wins" the trade war and China buys more American good. Great but that still doesn't fix the IP infringement and other issues."
No, the best case scenario is China ceases any form of forced IP transfer and IP infringement and dials down driving exports using subsidies.
brakdoo - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
"forced IP transfer and IP infringement": You are just repeating that bs you get from those said "news sites".Every company starting a JV in China knows that they are sharing IP. That's not "forced".
+ "IP infringement" is based on national laws and ruling. That's not the same everywhere in the world.
You should ask yourself: If those products sold in the US or Europe by chinese companies infringe patents, why don't they sue them in the US or Europe based on local law??? You should stop watching Fox News.
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
"If you want to do business here you need to share your IP""Give up your IP or lose this market"
How TF is that not forced?? It's only most recently that foreign auto companies are allowed to start a JV in China with a majority stake! Many other industries are still off limits to foreign investments.
"IP infringement" is based on national laws and ruling. That's not the same everywhere in the world.
Yeah, for example India systematically allows stealing drug formulas, yes, totally legal by Indian law and therefore not IP infringement.
Stoning is also legal in many parts of the middle east so it's not torture.
Of course.
brakdoo - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
"How TF is that not forced"Nobody is forcing them to start a business in china. US companies decide themselves whether they want to do it or not. You must be really brainwashed to think that everyone is entitled to do business everywhere in every way they want.
"Yeah, for example India systematically allows stealing drug formulas, yes, totally legal by Indian law and therefore not IP infringement."
You probably meant it in a sarcastic way but it's 100% true. If that's the law than it's the law and it's not "stealing".
Morawka - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
It's effectively a forced situation because China is the only market growing above 3% right now.brakdoo - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
So because they are so successful they have to open their market for other to make money.This really gets to the heart of the matter.You're argument really shows that this is just about the greed of the US government.
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
"So because they are so successful they have to open their market for other to make money."No, because they're at least as successful as others they should be asked to play by the same set of rules. Most of these trade barriers are allowed to remain in place because China joined the WTO as a developing country, now China's GDP by PPP has surpassed the US yet they still cling on to the handicaps meant for gimps.
brakdoo - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_World_...China opened the market as much as they agreed for joining the WTO.The US can sue them at the WTO but the WTO doesn't force anyone to open markets in the way you and Trump want them to.
Once again: They don't have to open markets more, just because they are successful. They did what they agreed to. The rest is just your wishful thinking. Don't make up non-existing rules because you're begrudging them. This is just your BS.
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
"the WTO doesn't force anyone to open markets"Which is called a LOOPHOLE. Or else the WTO becomes a tool for "developing" countries, actual status aside to exploit “developed” countries! Spain and Italy are so pissed their economies are a mess yet they can't even trade on equal terms with China.
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
I didn't make up non-existent rules, and don't pretend you treasure every rule, hypocrite.Namisecond - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
US government? Don't you mean multinational corporations?Namisecond - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
If you believe the Chinese figures. Even Chinese economists has doubts those numbers are real.https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article...
https://themarket.ch/interview/the-real-economic-g...
Western companies have known about the forced IP transfer situation in China for years. I have no sympathy for rich multinational corporations whining about the laws in China being against them. They either need to put up with it or get out. I'd rather they get out. Many companies are already planning to relocate to Vietnam, Malaysia or India where the local laws are less predatory.
s.yu - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
Wow, interesting links. I've certainly learned something new."I have no sympathy for rich multinational corporations whining about the laws in China being against them."
Their power is still far limited compared to the Party. Under another Huawei article a guy whined about Google, and thought that Huawei is the answer. My reply to that was "If you want a predator for a raccoon infestation, you don't go for the boa constrictors, you'll find them much harder to eradicate". Huawei is not the boa, the Party is the boa, Huawei's a patch of scales on its ugly head, but I doubt if the top 20 corporations by market cap combined could match the Party's power.
This is possibly the last chance to establish a set of fair trade rules between China and, at least the US. If the US could not get significant concessions from the Party, the world risks becoming China's monopoly for decades.
Spunjji - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
I'm amazed by the way people with supposedly conservative viewpoints can see a company as being "forced" to do business with China to access their supposed right to unlimited growth, yet will still argue that people "choose" to be homeless. Intellectual bankruptcy is ugly.s.yu - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm not a conservative.s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
"Nobody is forcing them to start a business in china."If you put it this way then it's a trade barrier giving only Chinese business access to their own, vast, walled off market while Chinese businesses are free to do business anywhere else in the world because there's no forced IP transfer.
It's called extortion.
A few thugs stop you on the road: "Spare a little change handsome?"
You're saying "nobody's forcing you to give up your money, you also have the choice to fight to the death".
It needs to be torn down.
brakdoo - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Chinese businesses are not free to do business anywhere in the world. State owned or strongly controlled businesses have always been under scrutiny in the west. They have been denied buying controlling stakes in important businesses many times."It needs to be torn down."
Instead of trying to change china with petty tactics (they won't work. when did it ever work? Is russia doing what the US wants?), how about denying chinese companies to do business in the US where they see it as "unfair". But the US government is going crazy by even taxing products belonging to AMERICAN COMPANIES produced in china by chinese companies not doing business in the US.
"A few thugs stop you on the road: "Spare a little change handsome?""
Is this a road in my country ???
1. US companies always knew what happens down that road towards another country.
2. They can always turn around without "fighting for death"
You are a dork. Again: Nobody is forcing american companies to go to China.
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
"State owned or strongly controlled businesses have always been under scrutiny in the west. They have been denied buying controlling stakes in important businesses many times."Clearly you're the damn dork. That's state sponsored hostile takeover!! Who ever allowed foreign regimes to operate freely in another country! And it's part of China's state capitalist system that's anti-free trade in the first place, state owned businesses are inherently anti-competition, especially backed by the worlds most powerful party, they're wolves in the hen house.
"But the US government is going crazy"
And you're a hypocrite. Don't you support stoning because it's legal? Well the measures implemented in the trade war are legal, and unlike Chinese law which could be changed to the whims of Xi, American law is at least more rigid because of fluctuations in the control of the Senate and House.
1. US companies always knew what happens down that road towards another country.
And that's why there's a world corruption scale, and other minor issues need to be addressed separately, but for now it's the Xi regime that needs to be dealt with urgently.
2. They can always turn around without "fighting for death"
"It's effectively a forced situation because China is the only market growing above 3% right now."
Yeah, it's rather telling them to turn around and die of thirst because thugs control the only well in walking distance.
brakdoo - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Bitch you still didn't give a single reason. You're just whining that it's extortion, calling the world corrupt and that companies will die of thirst if they don't get access to china.And with the stoning: Yes it's legal in some countries just like the chair or lethal injections are legal in the US...
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Anti-state capitalist is anti-trust on a global scale, doodoo, open your eyes!!Well yeah, BITCH, or do you support the wall?
Obviously it's illegal to cross the border without a visa and you will be detained indefinitely until you're granted asylum or deported, according to you any call to host the illegals is "whining" isn't it!
bji - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Your arguments would sound better if you didn't pepper them with personal insults. As it is you sound like a whiny child.bji - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
BTW brakdoo is the whiny child here. Anandtech comment system is lame.Namisecond - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
@brakdooPlease get your facts straight. Lethal injections are not legal in the entirety of the US. Capital punishment is not legal in the entirety of the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_i...
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Oh, and you also support stoning, I believe this applies to women found with extramarital relationships.Namisecond - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
What if you're not starting a JV in China? What if you're trying to open a local branch of your existing company?s.yu - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
You'll be banned from entry in the first place.GM for example wanted to enter the Chinese market a couple decades ago and had no use for local funding, however they're forced to enter in the form of a JV, therefore SAIC-GM was born.
Tewt - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
No, it was the realization that the rollout of 5G infrastructure was going to be rolled out by mostly Chinese manufacturers of which Huawei was one that was going to provide the new cell towers so it is only natural there was suspicion they could be used to monitor all types of US communications. Huawei is only a tiny part as far as trade deficit.helloworld_chip - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
Quite interesting that every time an article about huawei is posted on anandtech, we can usually see this technical forum getting ruinned by political opinions, especially comments from id "s.yu". This is even weird for those other articles which have nothing to do with politics.s.yu - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
1. This article is full of political opinions.2. I generally do not bring up politics unless Huawei apologists pop up playing the victim card, however they deserve much criticism even with politics aside as they're habitual liars, and their dishonest nature is largely independent from politics, though they're obviously more brazen with the Party at their back. And I will expose as many of their lies as possible.
3. What have you contributed to this forum??
Jumangi - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Use the Internet Ian. You think its just the USA or Trump that has serious issues with Huawei? Many countries have sounded off on complaints about this company. Stop acting like some paid PR for them.brakdoo - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Use the Internet Jumangi. You think it's just me having issues with a spherical earth? Many people have said that the earth is flat. Stop acting like some paid PR for a round earth.s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
You're comparing the stance of many sovereignties against The Flat Earth Society of a few hundred people.Morawka - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
A cursory search on google would've found this stuff.https://www.ft.com/content/c26a9214-04f2-11e8-9650...
Morawka - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
I know you would prefer an academic link, so here is one of those too.https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-african-unio...
DonDonDonTwister - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
As the author of this article, I'm really surprised and disappointed that you don't know these things. A Huawei exec was arrested in Poland on espionage charges. You can easily Google that. China has national security laws (from 2015 or 2017) were it expects all Chinese nationals and companies to assist the government in an offensive and defensive capacity. You can easily Google that as well. Finally, you went into some detail about Huawei's ownership structure where 99% of the company is owned by their workforce via a union. You mention how the union controls the shares 'owned' by these employees. What you failed to mention is that ALL unions in China are government controlled and part of the CCP. So, in essence, Huawei is controlled by the Communist Party of China. Why you failed to mention this part is odd. So, it's clear as day that the CCP has a huge sway over Huawei and Huawei does the CCP's bidding internally and externally.s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
" ALL unions in China are government controlled and part of the CCP"Well, "legal unions", haha. I just heard a few months ago that there were "private unions" in China that were "illegal" and was a little confused. So "legal" ones are all controlled by the Party, makes sense, thanks for clearing that up.
Ian Cutress - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
I'm not saying I didn't know them. I'm merely stating that anyone who wants to bring stuff like this up needs to provide links.We've been covering Huawei for 5+ years, and only now are people coming out of the woodwork on our comment section about this. We cover plenty of their Chinese companies, like Oppo, Xiaomi, even Lenovo, and yet nothing comes out when we talk about those.
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
You are correct, and Huawei is, in a word, evil, like the Party, their master. Oppo and Xiaomi will not touch infrastructure, nor do they receive special treatment from the Party, and Lenovo's technically an American company since years ago, only they pretend to still be Chinese in China, because of obvious reasons.Kvaern1 - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
I'm not really talking about spying. I expect all security services in the world to do their best to spy on me in any way they can, and so should you. Otherwise they are not doing their job.What I'm talking about is the bullshit loopsided tradelaws they have in China, and how western products which are part of en export ban to third nations has tendency to show up in those nations via China.
limitedaccess - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
I think people are naive if they think the current US trade strategy isn't primarily a result of domestic politics and it's highly partisan nature.Let's keep it simple. If the Democrats were currently in power do you think they would have the current stance on trade? Do you think the would have instead kept the Trans-Pacific Partnership?
There is a legacy play angle as well. Look at why there was such a pressing need to not only renegotiate NAFTA but to rename it.
Kishoreshack - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Huawei should stop working as a stooge for chinese govtalthough we can't blame as in china you can't deny govt request
if you do you are out of business
some or the other way china wants to use these companies for spying
igavus - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
That's not about China at all - all governments have laws which they expect you to obey. Some enforce them better than others. The bigger the govt, the more enforcement typically. US & China are both world leaders at this.s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
China is entirely opaque. The US has media left and right exposing each other but China's media is under total control of the Party. What you see is what the Party wants you to see. You need to first get this.Retycint - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Oh, just like how the NSA and its spying would have been exposed, if Snowden did not come out? I'm not a fan of the Chinese government either but let's not pretend the US is transparents.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
I'm not pretending that the US is transparent, it's vastly more transparent than China however.In China you could live in the east for years and not hear a word about how Xinjiang, some ~1/6 of China's land area, home to millions, is under martial law for the whole time. It takes only a tour to Xinjiang to realize that, and tourism is open to Chinese nationals, but when there you could hardly get a word out, social media posts are deleted and censored for almost no reason. Unless you're determined to spread information through private one-on-one chats (chat groups are also censored), nothing gets out. And even then you'd be detained if authorities realize you're leaking information on Xinjiang, which is possible if you're not very careful in picking friends.
I'm only telling you this because a family member went for a week and experienced the martial law and censorship.
wilsonkf - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Think about PRISM. Who is out of business then?close - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Don't bother his sleep. Ignorance is impossible to fight. I gave links on the first page but since we're most likely talking about hardcore uneducated hicks or paid troll farms nothing you say will change their opinion.s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Oh you know about troll farms? Then know that Huawei is the expert of troll farms!Tell me you still remember this:
https://9to5google.com/2018/02/12/huawei-mate-10-f...
Huawei's paid trolls are famously known in China as their "navy", and they've been famous since at least as early as P8, and they're exporting their tried and true tactic. Note that no other major smartphone manufacturer has ever been tied to such a scandal!
Achtung_BG - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Samsung?https://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/17/samsung_h...
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
That's old, Samsung was in a much weaker position back then than Huawei is now, and besides,"Sammy has since ended the practice of allowing its employees to post anonymous comments, describing the whole affair as "unfortunate" and one that went against its "fundamental principles"."
whereas Huawei NEVER APOLOGIZES. Because they're shameless.
Spunjji - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
"Note that no other major smartphone manufacturer has ever been tied to such a scandal!"When presented with evidence that it was untrue, you moved the goalposts to "that was a long time ago and they apologized" - without accepting that you lied.
You've made a couple of good points here-and-there but for the most part you're presenting as rabidly partisan and, as such, not very trustworthy.
s.yu - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
"without accepting that you lied"I did not lie, Huawei and their invincible army of drones and brainwashed illiterates came to my attention during the P8 era the second last time I was looking around for a smartphone upgrade, I had very little knowledge of the smartphone industry before that, that's why the whole list off the top of my head started with P8.
The goalpost is that they're shameless, and significantly more so than all their competitors, it always has been, and they make it quite easy to prove as long as you keep track, being so brazenly and consistently shameless through all the years.
s.yu - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
I realize that the two main reasons you're making such accusations is that you haven't read through the entire thread before replying to each individual post and that you're biased towards Huawei because you own their hardware.As such you can accuse me of moving the goalpost while the other guy could only find THREE examples all more than HALF A DECADE ago from TWO companies in response to A WHOLE STRING of misconduct by Huawei ALONE that's committed on a roughly biannual basis! Chipping a corner off my argument doesn't disprove the thesis, and I think you know that, but you're biased with your rose tinted glasses that you like Huawei's hardware so they can't be evil.
I forgive you for your partisanship and ignorance.
PeachNCream - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
No comment on the political situation - there's nothing to be had in doing so in a comments box anyway. AOSP might be a good thing. An unlocked bootloader is a rare critter these days so that would be a consumer-friendly boon. Of GMS apps, I use Maps (rarely) and the Play Store that's it. The rest of the stuff like that annoying search bar thing, Drive, Hangouts, and a chunk of other Google bloat gets adb disabled, but not having that stuff there at all would be even better. Even I might go grey market spelunking to get a Huawei phone if it gets me less Google spyware. I can sideload anything I already own by gutting it out of an existing phone as a .apk file or just do without.alufan - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
agree totally my last 3 phones have been huawei and they have been great getting an openly unlocked bootloader (thats always been possible btw) and no stupid google apps to have to disable is to me a bonus happy daysPeachNCream - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Interesting. The last Huawei phone I used was running Jelly Bean so it's been a very long time since I've used their hardware. It was very easy to root though and was a nice device.Spunjji - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
Their hardware's been consistently solid for a while - they tend to have one of the best SoCs available, decent displays and really solid camera modules. I had an absolute nightmare trying to successfully flash a P10 Plus with anything other than its stock firmware, though - I don't know how that looks with their newer phones, but it might be worth doing detailed research on beforehand.s.yu - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
I take it that's a declaration of conflict of interest then?Alright, here's mine: I had a Nokia, two Motorolas, two Sonys, and two Samsungs as personal phones before. My next will either be an Asus ROGP2 or a Vivo NEX3, unless LG gives me a pleasant surprise with something notchless with good specs.
guachi - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
I know someone who is a Chinese linguist in the Navy. She'd never buy any product from Huawei. They deserve to be locked out of the US market. Too much of a security risk.brakdoo - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Good thing she said that. That changes EVERYTHING FOREVER...close - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
No, dude's right, I also spoke to the same navy linguist and she strongly recommended NSA approved Cisco routers and Windows OS since these are all but guaranteed to have almost every flaw already known/introduced by a crack team of computer experts always working in your best interest.I forgot to ask why every other chinese phone manufacturer isn't banned yet... I guess the others like OnePlus found a way to resist the evil empire.
Tewt - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Because too many people are ok with exploiting countries that pay peanuts to their laborers so they can get their cheap shinies(or food).Namisecond - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
If I were Chinese, had Chinese relatives or Chinese friends, I would not buy a China market phone. Even their global market phones I'd have to vet through rooted ADB commands before I'd have any confidence in their security (Xiaomi, I'm looking at you for Mi Feedback)...actually, that's not different for any Android phones...still trying to figure out what exactly com.qualcomm.perfdump logs and where it's sending that data.3ogdy - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Huawei is also playing games. Spying games in Germany. Hopefully they go under for it.brakdoo - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
What are you talking about? They did nothing in Ggermany...s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
For Richard Yu it was always a game. Huawei reeks of deception under his leadership. They're habitual liars.I still remember years ago when P8 was their laughable "flagship" that Richard said during the press conference that "Our flagship is second to none." Anandtech reviewed that device back then, it was LAST PLACE by essentially every metric. When you have ZERO advantage the basic decency is to shut up, not lie through your teeth!!!
Then think of all their lies through the years, they ripped off Sony's Omnibalance and called it their own, they faked the most samples of all the smartphone manufacturers yet never apologized, they lied about inventing the notch (no patent!!) but not implementing it before Apple in fear of "bad reception", they lied about the GPU Turbo improvements exaggerating them 5-6x, they lied about Kirin 970 or was it 980 being superior to Apple's A chip that generation, they lied for two generations about 960fps slo-mo which was in fact interpolated from 480 and 240 fps, they faked the moon shot on P30P and this is just off the top of my head! The full list would be 3-4 times as long.
Along with the fact that they're the Party's pet yet they go around spreading lies about being a mere "private" company, controlled by employees (this latter part is also a lie as it was exposed that the company is controlled by a handful of people who employees have no right in electing), this is an utterly despicable company.
Achtung_BG - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Nokia/Microsoft fake video:https://www.cnet.com/news/nokia-forced-to-apologis...
Samsung fake benchmark results:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/7187/looking-at-cpu...
Everyone did it
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Ah, typical Huawei apologist?Then go address my longer post of the list of Huawei lies.
Huawei lies on a scale of about the other 3 of the top 4 combined. They are the No.1 liar! Yeah, everyone makes mistakes sometimes, but the one who shamelessly goes on and on is Huawei!
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
You really go though length to dig out the really old junk, every one of Huawei's lies I exposed is newer and reflects the CURRENT company culture!And again, like they faked the 960fps slo-mo the last two generations, the 7000+fps is faked though a 1 to 4 frame interpolation!
Retycint - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Huawei didn't say anything about "inventing the notch". They claimed that they considered and scrapped the idea of a notch because it wouldn't have been well received. That's not very unbelievable, given that designers innovate and scrap ideas all the time.s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Why say it even? They don't have a patent to back them up, it's their word against patents about who thought of it first. I could claim that I thought of curved screens before Samsung, does it matter? They're only able to make such empty claims because they're deified by the brainwash of the Party, and by saying so they're exploiting the empty brainwashed minds of many average Chinese knowing many will interpret it as their originality whatever the case.And this isn't the first time, back around P9 one of their ads boasted "dual camera heritage", they're about the third to the market with dual cameras and they're only on their second generation of dual cameras, it's not their damn heritage! But making such empty boasts will get to the brainwashed and ignorant and that's always their plan.
Retycint - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
I highly doubt many are buying Huawei phones for the notch, no matter who invented its.yu - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
Haha, you say that now, but the notch was an actual trend last generation.Sttm - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
True of False, Huawei operates at the pleasure of the Chinese Communist party and must obey?That is the bottom line, in the west Corporations can say NO to Governments. Apple does it all the time with requests to unlock iPhones by the US Government.
But in China, can you say the same for Huawei, can you say that if the Chinese Communist party told them to backdoor every device, they would say No? That they could say No?
imaheadcase - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
You do know the CIA has did the very same thing for years by intercepting shipments to china and other nations to put in own chipets to spy right?I'm all for no government control, but its silly that people think the Communist party can't be swayed to another direction.
Sttm - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
The CIA stealing Apple shipments and putting in spy chips is entirely different from the Chinese Communist Party telling Huawei to backdoor their devices, and Huawei having to do it OR ELSE.s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
The Communist Party will not be swayed by anybody but Xi for the foreseeable future.It would be interesting to see who emerges as his successor though as he succeeded in jailing both of his most notable political opponents.
Namisecond - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
Yep, they did that for Cisco routers and switches (intercepted shipments and implanted chips) to some middle eastern countries back in the 90's. The point is, they intercepted shipments. They did not force Cisco to back door the device themselves. They conducted espionage by themselves, not forced a manufacturer to do it for them.igavus - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/04/micros... - same in the US. The political party in charge does not matter if the company is under a gag order not to report it :)Sttm - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
A system in which the Government had to go get a warrant from a judge and Microsoft gets to challenge that warrant, and the gag order on it, in court.As opposed to, oh right the Government replacing the management team if they do not comply, and then likely jailing them on false charges.
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Yeah, sounds like what would happen in China. If you disobey the Party, they will get to you.Wang Jianlin, the previous wealthiest person in China, previously disobeyed the Party by refusing to rein in his investments abroad during a time when China was at a lack for foreign currency, the Party instructed all domestic banks to sever his loans abruptly under assorted pretenses and his whole business empire came to a screeching halt. He had to dump most of his assets and eventually lost some 90% of his net worth.
Namisecond - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
Have you heard of the 'Canary-in-a-coal-mine' indicators? It's when a company puts up a website that typically states something along the lines of: "Our Company has not received a gag order by the government on <today's date> " It's manually updated every day. It's designed to bypass gag orders which can not order you to actively lie. You can do that in the US as the US has rule of law. Can not do that in China.alufan - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
codswallop this is nothing to do with any sying etc this is just the usual American protectionism thats designed wholly to keep a US company Apple at the top of the sales charts and to ensure the USA population doesnt get a taste of the freedom they have been missing for years, yes of course there is the chance the phones can be used for spying but the same can be said of any piece of tech as sophisticated as these are but that can work both ways in fact the biggest cases recently of spying and data misuse have come from US companies, Facebook, Google and Apple along with Microsoft all have massive reams of information on all that there customers do anyway as do most apps that are installedguachi - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
It has everything to do with spying.brakdoo - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Or maybe with guachi crying?@alufan: There is no reasoning with these "red scare" freaks in this comments section.
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Arrogance is plainly stupid.Have some common sense about China's protectionist measures which have been in place for so long some people pretend they don't exist before you accuse the US of being protectionist.
brakdoo - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Who gives a shit about Chinese or US protectionism? That's their respective problem and every country has to decide what's best for them.I don't care if Huawei products can't get sold in the US.
My problem:
How does the US benefit from forbidding US companies to do business with Huawei outside of the US? Like selling semiconductors or offering services(google). This ain't protectionism, this is the government putting pressure on the Chinese economy at the expense of US companies...
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
"How does the US benefit from forbidding US companies to do business with Huawei outside of the US?"Really? Huawei WILL listen in if they're handed a portion of your infrastructure. They are Huawei, the Party's lapdog. If you think they play by the rules on the table, or if you even think they violate the rules no more than you do, then you are naive and you will be thrown off your feet. And no, Nokia listening in on behalf of Finland is not nearly as worrying, if it's even possible in the first place. Compared to the rest of the world, most northern Europeans are too civilized for their own good. Compared to China and the likes of Iran, the whole west is too civilized for their own good.
There are too many examples but I'll just give a set of typical ones. A couple weeks ago the first Costco in China was opened in Shanghai. Thousands rushed in applying for membership, their target? The cheap Maotai and other luxury items meant as temporary loss leaders, and not for self use, but to sell for a profit. Although each membership was allowed only one of each item each checkout, the scalpers who got in managed to profit thousands each "run", the especially industrious ones--the whole family, from the grandma to the grandson--entered 3 times in a morning and got away with almost a dozen sets, for a profit of almost 6 digit RMB. Two weeks later there was a surge in membership refunds, because Costco stopped carrying the luxury items.
Costco was played.
They failed to learn the lesson from Amway, which, around 2 decades ago entered China with their set of rules that worked in every other market, but not China. Amway had a generous refund policy of a full refund for any product, used or not, for any reason at all. They found that for weeks their stores were filled with housewives buying, and housewives returning half-empty containers for a full refund. They came to their senses that they simply took the products home, poured out half and came back for a full refund, and changed their policy in China so that refunds only cover whatever portion of the product is left unused, so the conning finally stopped.
Amway was played.
These are just ordinary Chinese, and the Party's top is not stupid, they're masters of trickeries and do not deserve to be met with trust and generosity.
brakdoo - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
So you basically just want to teach china a lesson??? You basically just showed that you want to force your fucked up ideology on other countries.A weakling like you always thinks everyone is trying to attack/exploit you.
"Compared to China and the likes of Iran, the whole west is too civilized for their own good." Wow you're a mess.
Stop writing about "the west" like they share exactly the same values. You can see the difference how the US and Europe behave towards Huawei or even Iran(what's your obsession with Iran anyway? I bet an Iranian dude took your girl.) Go eat some freedom fries...
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
WTF is wrong with you, doodoo?"So you basically just want to teach china a lesson???"
How many brainfucks have you had to be spewing such BS?
I'm telling you that, if you assume that China is a sheep just because there's no direct unclassified evidence to show otherwise, you will be fucked over and over in ways you cannot imagine!!
"everyone is trying to attack/exploit you"
No you turd, an arrogant idiot like you thinks you've seen it all and is invulnerable against all the world has to throw at you. China IS trying to attack you, as for Iran, if their economy quadruples see to it that they will.
"You can see the difference how the US and Europe"
Merkel's made a huge mistake allowing the surge of refugees, she made another huge mistake playing with fire(Xi), however the EU is not a single sovereignty and their growth is also more stagnant, many EU industrial exports rely heavily on the Chinese market, "they need to eat", that's the main reason. The UK has done what it could within the restraints of its financial status for example, and the route of communications between the US and UK remains uncompromised.
brakdoo - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
You start with the refugees? Plus you are seeing a world conspiracy...You're life must be really fucked up.
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
There's not a "world conspiracy", there's China, sometimes with Iran and Russia conspiring against the west!It's just your mind that's fucked up.
Spunjji - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
It was only a matter of time until s.yu's racism became more explicit. "allowing the surge of refugees" implies that the refugees would not have been trying to leave had Germany rejected them - and that's patently false. Given the role numerous Western nations played in enabling the holocaust by rejecting Jewish refugees, it's a remarkable sign of Germany's development as a nation that they lead the way in accepting people fleeing the Syrian civil war.In summary: screw you, s.yu, and your nonsensical right-wing babble.
s.yu - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
By crying racism at just the hint of refugees you certainly sound like a stupid white left. It's not racism, it's the unrestrained human nature common in most parts of the globe to want to game any system when available."the refugees would not have been trying to leave had Germany rejected them"
If you mean leaving Syria, of course they were leaving Syria, but there are many non-warzones, often closer to Syria to be aiming for instead of just Germany, and the most developed nations like Norway etc. where they caused widespread disruption that often aren't even reported by mainstream media in fear of the smearing from stupid white left like you.
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Also, see the comment below by ksec.Namisecond - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
@brakdooIt's the US government doing something about all the whining those international corporations have been doing about China for the past decade. It will hurt them (the corporations) in the short run, but in the long run it dampens investment in China and redistributes capital elsewhere, like China's neighbors. Even the Chinese have been looking into moving their manufacturing offshore because of rising labor costs this decade.
How does the US benefit? It benefits by economically short-circuiting a military near-peer that has become increasingly aggressive over the past 2 decades. The rationale: It beats having another arms race like it did with the Soviet Union, especially one where your tech companies are feeding it R&D.
Spunjji - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
@namisecond - that's genuinely the most rational take on this from the pro-US-strategy side that I've seen. Thanks for that.I still don't believe it's the primary motivator behind US actions, as they'd need to be more consistent for that to truly make sense - but it seems plausible that at least some of the more intelligent players in US foreign policy have that goal in mind.
yeeeeman - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
I see people here in the comments and in general still don't understand all this US China trade war. This is not about spying or military. This is only about money. Trump is angry that China is getting richer than US and other big countries would like, so this is an under the belt blow for China to make it understand that its success is reliant on other countries investing tons of money there. In the end it is not China fault that all countries went there to produce stuff cheaper. It was expected but everyone hoped things will stay under control, that is US still rules the world and everybody else listen to them. Well, matter of the fact is that they are slowly getting behind China and this is what Trump has come up with...limitedaccess - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
It isn't about that, US companies are largely against the current trade strategies. The US has initiates trade conflicts with several other countries/entities (such as the EU) which are traditionally what would be considered aligned with the US.The reason for the current stance is certainly purely due to internal US politics. It appeals to the base of the sitting President and party in power. The benefit is potential political points. I suspect there is a legacy play involved as well, see the the pressing need to no only renegotiate NAFTA but rename it.
If the goal was actually to attack China than the US would not have withdrawn from the Trans-Pacific Partnership that the previous administration negotiated. The strategy behind that accord was to isolate China. But do highly partisan US politics and the whims of the current President you can't have that as it was negotiated by the other party and the previous President.
jcc5169 - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Its humorous you are hosting Chinese Propaganda .. how much did they pay Anandtech?s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
It's disappointing that Anandtech is hosting the lies of Richard Yu, a known clown, even in China. He's equally notorious in the circle for laughable bragging and lying with Luo Yonghao, the previous head of Smartisan. However Luo Yonghao's notoriety stems partly from his sympathetic remarks with Japan, which goes against nationalist brainwash, OTOH Richard Yu, being Huawei CEO, is an obvious beneficiary of nationalist brainwash, so his notoriety is solely the result of his own clowning.Ian Cutress - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
This is a transcription of an interview. 24 press from common high profile tech media asking any questions they like. I asked two questions: boot loader unlocking and bringing 5G to midrange devices. All other questions were from other media.s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
And you know that their answers are sure to be politically charged BS, yet you put it on the site, it means you endorse them.Retycint - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
So does that mean every single media who reports on Trump is "endorsing" Trump? Since everyone knows that his words are BS.News sites report factual news, ideally with as little bias as possible. Not sure where the "endorsing" part comes in
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Did you read this? And compare it to say NYT's coverage about Trump?"Each iteration comes with enhancements to the core elements of the Huawei ethos: design, performance, and user experience."
"In Huawei’s own words, ‘we bring a lot of profit to US companies’."
"US companies lose out on not only revenue but a strong technically minded powerhouse that has the ability to help improve both sides of the equation"
And “This US ban has destroyed this industry”, “We Bring a Lot of Profit to US Companies”, “Huawei is a Bargaining Chip. We Follow All Local Laws.” are in bold highlighted font.
This is the tone of a mouthpiece, while NYT refutes a remark three different ways every time they cite Trump.
Besides, very little of this is news, most of it has been mentioned before, even the political charged lies.
[email protected] - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Which politician start playing bad games first?! We were extremely partitioned!ksec - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
>Some people cite that Ren Zhengei, one of its founders, was a senior member of China’s ruling Communist Party, and that being in China means having to comply with its data laws and share information with the government. Huawei insists it is not controlled or even directed by the state,Here is a quote I love from twitter.
"China’s ability to fire the CEO of Cathay Pacific shows how irrelevant it is to ask who technically owns Huawei. What matters is whether the state has effective control, not legal control, and we know the answer to that for any company in or even near China."
Period
s.yu - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Wow, good one.Alistair - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
"Just days after Meng was detained on a U.S. extradition request, China threw two Canadians into jail on spying allegations, then later put another two on death row, and halted nearly $5 billion ($3.8 billion) worth of Canadian agricultural imports."Sure, they are a company just like any other... /s
Alistair - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Chinese Government was using Huawei as an instrument of state power, to undermine U.S. sanctions. Ties run deep. Don't trust them.ballsystemlord - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
One spelling mistake:"Fore example, our new P30 colors are selling very well."
It's "for" not "fore".
"For example, our new P30 colors are selling very well."
kjboughton - Monday, September 23, 2019 - link
Hi Dr. Ian Cutress, seeing as how this site (Anandtech) has elected to publish an opinion piece from the CEO of a foreign-owned corporation in an attempt to sway US public opinion with regard to US law, do you plan to register yourself as a foreign agent of China? Thank you.Ian Cutress - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
This is a transcription of an interview. 24 press from common high profile tech media asking any questions they like. I asked two questions: boot loader unlocking and bringing 5G to midrange devices. All other questions were from other media.Quantumz0d - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Great scripted response. Same thing on last page also.I wonder how come AT asking about Bootloader Unlock ? I never saw any article on AT mentioning about Modding on Android. In fact mo mention of Scoped Storage either which ruins Android or the A/B parition system with new RootFs and Dynamic Partitions ruining Custom ROM scene / BL unlock due to slotted and no dedicated recovery partition.
And 5G to midrange ? Can I laugh please ? 5G mmWave is slowpaced and US who is always 1 in latest technologies in comm opted for this delayed and hard path. Just because UK decided for dumping all the Huawei into their ecosystem doesn't mean whole World will bend. SK is the first to bring 5G to masses and I see nil articles on that when you have Samsung LG pushing for that.
But yeah we get a nice stuffed article for Huawei and their CEO in subertive fashion for CPC and China, why don't you publish the piece of Apple selling their iCloud keys to CPC owned entity or the VPN situation in China since AT is now Politech... But yeah AT doesn't want to know about EROFS ? Huawei filesystem which doesn't allow Write Access and EMUI killing Apps favoring their bloatware. Suddenly wants to know about Bootloader. And yes BL won't be unlockable. And Press has pushed enough of this CEOs BS making in the context of Would to "Will".
Sad.
Kudos, AT lost their whole Mojo and now posting this junk is disappointing.
s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
"Huawei filesystem which doesn't allow Write Access and EMUI killing Apps favoring their bloatware."Interesting, care to elaborate?
Quantumz0d - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
https://twitter.com/topjohnwu/status/1125263163673...s.yu - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
Aw...Twitter. The Great Firewall is operating at maximum capacity due to proximity to National Day and I've had little luck with any of the Nord's dozens of obfuscated nodes since yesterday.Thanks anyway, I'll keep the link for later.
Retycint - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
You seem to be very triggered over a simple, factual response. Perhaps you should consider that Ian is simply doing the job of a proper news site and reporting on factual events? Such as this interview with Huawei CEO.If all media stopped reporting things that are dubious or straight up lies, I reckon we wouldn't see much news about Trump, if at all.
vortmax2 - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Actually, you wouldn't see much news at all as the media tends runs with their own narratives, dubious things, and lies. Let's not play politics on a Tech site please.Ian Cutress - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
My response is the same because I copy pasted it because the same words are relevant.Bootloader unlocking: we discuss it in our work chat. We have certain tools we can use in our reviews when it is unlocked.
5G mid range: Qualcomm just announced mid range chips for 2020. I wanted to see if Huawei was also going for 2020 midrange 5G.
Perfectly legitimate questions I wanted to know the answers to.
kjboughton - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
Hello again "Doctor." Time to jump ship and you know it.Anandtech is now just another propagandist rag masquerading as a tech site.
Spunjji - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
Putting the word doctor in scare-quotes marks you out as a complete berk. He is a doctor, and you are a transparent astroturfing hack.airdrifting - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Trump is living in the past. Build walls, "bringing back manufacturing jobs", open up coal mines, now entering another cold war with China, Bernie for 2020.vortmax2 - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Your opinion.Spunjji - Friday, September 27, 2019 - link
Fact, actually.Namisecond - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
Despite the ridiculousness of it all, too many people believe it. It's what got him elected in the first place. We are well on our way to a cold war with China, but don't lay all the blame at the feet of the US. China's actions over the past 2 decades have made it very easy.seamonkey79 - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Agreed. Doesn't change the fact that you haven't released EMUI 9 for the North American market on the MediaPad M5 8.4 yet.Do that and maybe I'll care what happens to your company and your viability in a non-Chinese market.
quadibloc - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
If Huawei did not wish to encounter difficulties from the United States, it should not have sold equipment containing U.S. technology to Iran through a subsidiary it attempted to conceal. This is why one of their senior managers is awaiting extradition to the U.S.; if anyone has the right to complain about politicians playing games, it is the Canadian people, as two of our nationals have been arrested on false spying charges and are still being held in China.s.yu - Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - link
Totally. Iran alone is reason enough for a ban.dsplover - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
If Huawei were based in Taiwan Id buy their products.Im not giving a dime to any Chinese State Run Company.
Don’t particularly care for the way their treat their neighbors, much less their own people.
Whatever happened to the owners wealthy daughter who got arrested in Canada?
She seemed to like her Communist overlords. Probably didnt have a choice either...
s.yu - Wednesday, September 25, 2019 - link
If Huawei were based in Taiwan...frankly there wouldn't be such a company. It's precisely their ties to the Party that got them this far. They're free to run wild, with governmental support in many aspects, in arguably the largest single market in the world. That wouldn't be the case if they're based in Taiwan, nor does Taiwan operate in such a fashion.Manch - Thursday, September 26, 2019 - link
Ive never seen AnandTech wade into politics or serve as political advertisement until now. I was always happy you all avoided it. I also get you have to ask bc it does affect the industry and their products but softball much? The US, the EU, UK, African Countries have all had issues with their practices and tactics tied to the Chinese government. He pretty much put on a woe is me, innocent victim when that's clearly not the case. Would have been nice to follow up questions pertaining to those issues.Even better, just stay out of the political arena. I like AnandTech to have only one agenda. Tech. Not this mess.
Rudde - Thursday, September 26, 2019 - link
He most likely is an innocent victim...of the CPC. It's hard to run a huge business in the US without angering the government. In China it's almost impossible.
Manch - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
Doubtful. "CEO's" of Chinese corporations are there bc of their political ties. Basically the party gives a their man a ton of cash and tech they stole and say, start a business. They do and they are at the whim of the PRC.Eliadbu - Thursday, September 26, 2019 - link
Chinese phones and electronics are another mean of intelligence gathering for PRC. Huawei are in the most dangerous position due to their sheer size and big portfolio of communication equipment like cellular equipment. This actually makes them a national security threat. Remember that those companies obey the PRC demands and will do what they are asked for without any objections.justareader - Thursday, September 26, 2019 - link
I think it is foolish to expect any government to provide proof or evidence. Most evidence is acquired by nefarious means. Evil is at the heart of espionage just ask Google.liquid_c - Thursday, September 26, 2019 - link
Leaving all the arguments from the comment section aside, why is this on Anandtech? This is not tech news, not by a long shot. Even more, it's a person who's widely known to be a chronic liar. Since when has Huawei become the allfather of this site? (i've been reading it since its inception and i actually made an account, today, to post this - this is beyond infuriating).ALeUNe - Saturday, September 28, 2019 - link
Cheat spy cheats and blames on politician.thomas.anderson - Saturday, September 28, 2019 - link
Huawei's approach is leaving backdoors masqueraded as bugs.If found out, they would just claim they are normal bugs like any other software would have.
Basically their strategy is if US has the moral high ground, then China will have US constrained by your own rules.
And China's upper hand is they don't have any rules, it's totalitarianism over there.
They can do whatever they want.
They are convinced they are flexible enough to defeat any democratic country with rules.
That's also why Trump is the president they deserve, as he doesn't like playing by the rules either.
s.yu - Sunday, September 29, 2019 - link
I agree on the whole, but a minor detail is Huawei refuses to even patch some "bugs" even when discovered.https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/28/huawei_mi...
looper - Sunday, September 29, 2019 - link
Was there no discussion of Huawei's foldable? If/when available in the USA?Total Meltdowner - Monday, September 30, 2019 - link
LOL coming from Chinese backed Huawei CEO. Same old story from China.DON'T BUY CHINESE!
Roy2002 - Saturday, October 5, 2019 - link
More than 10 years ago I was told Huawei routers has spyware. Now the same rumor is still circling around. Solid proof please.headloser - Monday, October 7, 2019 - link
Have a look at this website news. NO way i getting one after reading this.https://www.wired.com/story/horrifying-way-to-get-...
It amazing how fast Huawei rose up in the phone industry. I think they were the ones whom brought down Nortel.
albert89 - Saturday, October 12, 2019 - link
Yeah politicians are playing games alright, but your politicians arent the same as the rest of the world you see, because your politicians (Chinese communist party) not only steal copyright technology from everyone but the company is owned by the Chinese Communist party not the people of China. If you don't believe me then look what what happened to Alibaba founder Jack Ma did when the Chinese communist party asked him to step down, he just did. Also they keep finding built in spyware on Chinese hardware that is shipped to the West even on mobile phones.kjboughton - Friday, February 14, 2020 - link
Released 13 February 2020:https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-huawei-charged...
kjboughton - Friday, February 14, 2020 - link
Released 11 February 2020:https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/us-gav...
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