I don't have the 9825/Note10 yet, we'll have to buy one. Currently this won't happen till maybe October as it's going to be busy with other stuff the next few weeks.
It would make an interesting read to see the benefits going from 8nm to 7nm, but from what is known - the benefits are super slim to even justify doing that in the first place for something different than "beta test" the 7nm for the next year SOC.
There are more interesting things that comes like the A13 SOC and the next kirin.
I look at these charts and I get angrier and angrier about Samsung forcing me into Exynos when the performance (and other subsystems) are really quite inferior. It's marketed as one product but it's two very different phones. I compare this to motorbikes as that's my thing. A 1000cc Fireblade is NOT the same bike as a 650CC version. They are similar in looks and similar in purpose but they handle and perform differently and are worth different amounts because of this. I, personally, would be absolutely fine with a 650cc version as it would suit my riding better. I would NOT be fine with someone selling me a "Fireblade" and not specifying in the advert what model it is and trying to sell me a 650cc as if it was the same value as a 1000cc. Both models are marketed as different bikes with one called the CBR1000RR and the other the CBR650R. Just because they look similar and share many similar components does not mean they are the same machine when the core elements are different. Both have excessive performance for the road - more than you'll ever be able to apply and so arguing that the phones are both satisfactory for the market is missing the point.
Samsung need to recognise they can not go selling an inferior phone under the same name as another model and using the same marketing as if they both have the same value. And if you're ever wondering, just ask yourself this - if you could have either a Snapdragon or an Exynos model and they'd both work the same on the networks you use, etc.... would you really choose the slower one for the same money? No, you'd go for the faster one with the better DSP, better imaging, better sound quality, etc.
My other concern is that, whilst these are both adequate now, I might want my phone to last longer than the usual 2-3 years. What if I want 5? Mine is an S8 and it's already showing signs of slowing down as software requirements increase. So if you start off with a faster phone, logically it will likely make a difference towards the latter end of its life. So I buy an inferior phone which also has a shorter useful life and I'm expected to value it the same as the other model?
Samsung, please tell your marketing department to kindly piss off. The bunch of raging arse parsnips.
I don't get your point, they're not for the same money, not even in the same range as twice I bought an SK variant Samsung for ~30% less than Mainland China's.
They also have different code names. Note 10+ for example, directly from GSMA: Versions: SM-N975F (Europe); SM-N975F/DS (Global); SM-N975U (USA); SM-N975U1 (USA unlocked); SM-N975W (Canada); SM-N9750/DS (LATAM, Brazil, China); SM-N975N (South Korea)
Actually the exynos is more EXPENSIVE! Note 9 when released costed 1100 euros in Europe vs 1000 dollars in US, you can check the conversion yourself as 1000 euros are over 1100 dollars. The fact you got a samsung device for cheaper is nothing exclusive to you nor China - there are super big discounts in US too for the qualcomm variants.
Actually I look before I buy, the SK version is the cheapest anywhere, I had the option of buying the HK version(on SD) of the same tier for ~$100 more but I decided against it thinking it's not worth the premium. A friend in the US also bought a Note 8 at the time and went for an HK version because getting it from HK is still cheaper than in the US and he preferred SD. I don't know how there are significant discounts in the US but suspect they're bound by contracts. As for the high price in Europe that should come as a surprise to no one. Most electronics are more expensive in Europe, it's not specific to Samsung.
I agree, would be really great if we could see exy9825 vs exy 9820 vs sd855+ vs sd855. Why exy9820 and sd855 you may ask, well because of the software updates, i wonder if and how much difference does it make now after 6 months on the market and couple of firmware updates...
Would be if it was not so trivial. I mean , if one phone costs 400 dollars and another one 800, there you have straight away your performance per dollar. All are sd 855s , so there is nothing more to consider. One could argue about camera, screen, battery life, but these are irrelevant to performance.
Excellent article as always! I would like to see which version of Android each phone has in the system performance tests to see if some of the older device performance data is up to date and also see which Opengl and Vulkan drivers each device has while testing was done...however even without that data still the best tech site there is. Thanks!
Aside from battery life, the things I would care most about in a phone comparison are: Does it have stereo speakers? Does it have a headphone jack? Does it use vanilla Android (or how close to vanilla is what it uses)? Does it get all of the Android updates and security patches in a timely fashion? How is the camera performance (speed to load the app and take a photo, image stabilization, low light performance)? How much RAM does it have? How much internal storage (excluding the OS) and how much expandable, if any?
It's funny how top of the performing phones in the benchmarks are mostly Huawei devices, yet we couldn't buy them in the US because of puppy politicians with their ulterior motives.
Right now , snapdragon is king, so your lack of huawei does not hinder you from buying some top silicon for your smartphones. Some twists included and some not so well-known corners, snapdragon rules over the a12 as well; if for nothing else , for the hideous software environment called iOS.
The latest anf greatest of Huawei(cough cough kirin 980 )} still struggles to overcome sd 845. You are really not losing much.....
Qualcomm would have been devastated by reading the review that they funded out of their pockets: " Apple’s SoCs now power the best-performing devices. "
Also when the performance of your device depends on the software optimization of the vendor, qualcomm would better do something about it.
Interesting overview. I like that there are a lot of explicit comparisons between devices -- which is admittedly the purpose of a piece like this.
I know you already do a lot of work for reviews and there's a LOT of data with a roundup with this many devices, but I have a request: Battery Capacity Normalized Battery Life. It would help illustrate platform efficiency vs battery size.
Hi, Andrei, excellent article, as usual. One question, perhaps I missed this in the article, but are the figures for the S10+ Snapdragon and Exynos the ones from the original S10 article, or have you retested it with the latest updates?
I would like to see more user controls to limit performance and allow better battery life. Some games hog CPU & GPU for no reason (static city/castle not fps), if I can force them to 15fps instead of 60fps then may be I can avoid the pocket warmer/fire-starter. Change peak MHz of the big cores or set an average power used over short to long term (30 seconds / 5 minutes / 1 hour). I don't want sudden power saving once battery is <20%. Better option if I can set the aim for 12 hours use at the start of the day and have the device limit power from the beginning. More RAM can enable users to keep more apps & data in memory to avoid the slower app startup cycles. I thought 3GB RAM would be great 4 years ago but that was quickly used up by larger OS updates & larger apps. An older phone had just 8GB storage which was swallowed up OS and a few apps. It's frustrating that not all the phones you mention are available in Australia & other countries. Grey imports are possible but do you risk getting a 2nd hand phone with no warranty? OnePlus models and Samsung Galaxy S10e with 8GB RAM are not available in Australia.
GPU "performance" - test after test of OFF SCREEN "performance". Does anybody play off screen? Show the real thing, so everybody would see the real cost of those useless extra-invisible pixels, and real advantage or lack of thereof of "90fps" and "120fps" - COMBINED with the battery life effects of all these!
Should have waited a month to write this article. Seeing how the Pixel 3 is barely edged out by these SD855 devices, Pixel 4 is going to wipe the floor.
Hi Andrei, Any thoughts on the (very pricey) ASUS ROG phone (the most recent one)? Seems to be the gaming phone to have if money is no object. Also, up to 1 TB storage (!), and a 6,000 mAh battery.
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yeeeeman - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Andrei, this is nice, but we could guesstimate how an 855+ will behave.We really want to see Exynos 9825 since that is harder to estimate.
Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
I don't have the 9825/Note10 yet, we'll have to buy one. Currently this won't happen till maybe October as it's going to be busy with other stuff the next few weeks.LarsBolender - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
But you are going to review the 9825, are you?rocketman122 - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
all I care about is if the camera is great, and the op7 is garbage as has been all the others before it.FunBunny2 - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
"all I care about is if the camera is great"and, how many phone companies make the cameras? it is, of course, just a matter of buying off-the-shelf from other vendors.
IUU - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link
Lol! Couldn't care any less about the camera! But each to his own.cha0z_ - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link
It would make an interesting read to see the benefits going from 8nm to 7nm, but from what is known - the benefits are super slim to even justify doing that in the first place for something different than "beta test" the 7nm for the next year SOC.There are more interesting things that comes like the A13 SOC and the next kirin.
FunBunny2 - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
"all I care about is if the camera is great"and, how many phone companies make the cameras? it is, of course, just a matter of buying off-the-shelf from other vendors.
philehidiot - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link
I look at these charts and I get angrier and angrier about Samsung forcing me into Exynos when the performance (and other subsystems) are really quite inferior. It's marketed as one product but it's two very different phones. I compare this to motorbikes as that's my thing. A 1000cc Fireblade is NOT the same bike as a 650CC version. They are similar in looks and similar in purpose but they handle and perform differently and are worth different amounts because of this. I, personally, would be absolutely fine with a 650cc version as it would suit my riding better. I would NOT be fine with someone selling me a "Fireblade" and not specifying in the advert what model it is and trying to sell me a 650cc as if it was the same value as a 1000cc. Both models are marketed as different bikes with one called the CBR1000RR and the other the CBR650R. Just because they look similar and share many similar components does not mean they are the same machine when the core elements are different. Both have excessive performance for the road - more than you'll ever be able to apply and so arguing that the phones are both satisfactory for the market is missing the point.Samsung need to recognise they can not go selling an inferior phone under the same name as another model and using the same marketing as if they both have the same value. And if you're ever wondering, just ask yourself this - if you could have either a Snapdragon or an Exynos model and they'd both work the same on the networks you use, etc.... would you really choose the slower one for the same money? No, you'd go for the faster one with the better DSP, better imaging, better sound quality, etc.
My other concern is that, whilst these are both adequate now, I might want my phone to last longer than the usual 2-3 years. What if I want 5? Mine is an S8 and it's already showing signs of slowing down as software requirements increase. So if you start off with a faster phone, logically it will likely make a difference towards the latter end of its life. So I buy an inferior phone which also has a shorter useful life and I'm expected to value it the same as the other model?
Samsung, please tell your marketing department to kindly piss off. The bunch of raging arse parsnips.
s.yu - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link
I don't get your point, they're not for the same money, not even in the same range as twice I bought an SK variant Samsung for ~30% less than Mainland China's.They also have different code names. Note 10+ for example, directly from GSMA: Versions: SM-N975F (Europe); SM-N975F/DS (Global); SM-N975U (USA); SM-N975U1 (USA unlocked); SM-N975W (Canada); SM-N9750/DS (LATAM, Brazil, China); SM-N975N (South Korea)
cha0z_ - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link
Actually the exynos is more EXPENSIVE! Note 9 when released costed 1100 euros in Europe vs 1000 dollars in US, you can check the conversion yourself as 1000 euros are over 1100 dollars. The fact you got a samsung device for cheaper is nothing exclusive to you nor China - there are super big discounts in US too for the qualcomm variants.s.yu - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link
Actually I look before I buy, the SK version is the cheapest anywhere, I had the option of buying the HK version(on SD) of the same tier for ~$100 more but I decided against it thinking it's not worth the premium.A friend in the US also bought a Note 8 at the time and went for an HK version because getting it from HK is still cheaper than in the US and he preferred SD. I don't know how there are significant discounts in the US but suspect they're bound by contracts.
As for the high price in Europe that should come as a surprise to no one. Most electronics are more expensive in Europe, it's not specific to Samsung.
1nterceptor - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link
I agree, would be really great if we could see exy9825 vs exy 9820 vs sd855+ vs sd855. Why exy9820 and sd855 you may ask, well because of the software updates, i wonder if and how much difference does it make now after 6 months on the market and couple of firmware updates...1nterceptor - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link
...although, i believe exy9825 is not by any means much faster/better than the "old" 9820, it is probbably more efficient on the other hand...jrocket - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Since many of these phones vary in price significantly, it would be interesting to see a "performance per dollar" value comparison.IUU - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link
Would be if it was not so trivial. I mean , if one phone costs 400 dollars and another one 800, there you have straight away your performance per dollar. All are sd 855s , so there is nothing more to consider. One could argue about camera, screen, battery life, but these are irrelevant to performance.flyingpants265 - Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - link
It says right in the article that the performance differs depending on software implementation.Wardrive86 - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Excellent article as always! I would like to see which version of Android each phone has in the system performance tests to see if some of the older device performance data is up to date and also see which Opengl and Vulkan drivers each device has while testing was done...however even without that data still the best tech site there is. Thanks!Wardrive86 - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link
For example:LG G7 Android 9 opengl driver : 331.0
Slingshot Extreme Unlimited OpenGL ES 3.1
Physics peak : 3486
Physics sustained : 3392
Graphics peak : 5467
Graphics sustained: 5326
(5 runs, 20 minutes, Room temp: 78F/25.6C)
Immediately followed by Work 2.0
Performance : 8146
Web : 6588
Video : 5701
Writing. : 9554
Photo : 15830
Data : 6314
yacoub35 - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Aside from battery life, the things I would care most about in a phone comparison are:Does it have stereo speakers?
Does it have a headphone jack?
Does it use vanilla Android (or how close to vanilla is what it uses)?
Does it get all of the Android updates and security patches in a timely fashion?
How is the camera performance (speed to load the app and take a photo, image stabilization, low light performance)?
How much RAM does it have?
How much internal storage (excluding the OS) and how much expandable, if any?
Babar Javied - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Those are some good questions.... I ask similar questions before making a purchasing decision.Wardrive86 - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Those are good points about a phone comparison but I believe the point of this article is to compare different implementations of the Snapdragon 855Macazian - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
It'd be interesting and I would be intrigued if you added the Asus ZenFone 6 S855 for China phones to this list.Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
I don't have the unit, sorry.airdrifting - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
It's funny how top of the performing phones in the benchmarks are mostly Huawei devices, yet we couldn't buy them in the US because of puppy politicians with their ulterior motives.Alistair - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Your carrier might not stock one, but "can't buy one" is a ridiculous thing to say. They are everywhere, offline and online, including Amazon.IUU - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link
Right now , snapdragon is king, so your lack of huawei does not hinder you from buying some top silicon for your smartphones. Some twists included and some not so well-known corners, snapdragon rules over the a12 as well; if for nothing else , for the hideous software environment called iOS.The latest anf greatest of Huawei(cough cough kirin 980 )} still struggles to overcome sd 845. You are really not losing much.....
cha0z_ - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link
Rules over the A12? :DSSNSeawolf - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
I don't particularly care about the 855, but Andrei's muscular technical expertise always makes for a compelling article worth reading.patel21 - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Qualcomm would have been devastated by reading the review that they funded out of their pockets:" Apple’s SoCs now power the best-performing devices. "
Also when the performance of your device depends on the software optimization of the vendor, qualcomm would better do something about it.
tuxRoller - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link
?Qualcomm is unusually good in this area.
MrCommunistGen - Thursday, September 5, 2019 - link
Interesting overview. I like that there are a lot of explicit comparisons between devices -- which is admittedly the purpose of a piece like this.I know you already do a lot of work for reviews and there's a LOT of data with a roundup with this many devices, but I have a request:
Battery Capacity Normalized Battery Life.
It would help illustrate platform efficiency vs battery size.
StormyParis - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link
What about with a case...pse - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link
Hi, Andrei, excellent article, as usual. One question, perhaps I missed this in the article, but are the figures for the S10+ Snapdragon and Exynos the ones from the original S10 article, or have you retested it with the latest updates?Cheers!
edsib1 - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link
It doesnt look like you are using the phones various gamespace modesMy Oppo Reno 10x Zoom scores like your, but in gamespace mode it gets scores around 25% higher.
Performance - 10564
Web Browsing - 8257
Video Edit - 6429
Writing - 13638
Photo - 22386
Data - 8118
antifocus - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link
Very nice to see more Chinese manufacturers coverage.tygrus - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link
I would like to see more user controls to limit performance and allow better battery life. Some games hog CPU & GPU for no reason (static city/castle not fps), if I can force them to 15fps instead of 60fps then may be I can avoid the pocket warmer/fire-starter. Change peak MHz of the big cores or set an average power used over short to long term (30 seconds / 5 minutes / 1 hour). I don't want sudden power saving once battery is <20%. Better option if I can set the aim for 12 hours use at the start of the day and have the device limit power from the beginning. More RAM can enable users to keep more apps & data in memory to avoid the slower app startup cycles. I thought 3GB RAM would be great 4 years ago but that was quickly used up by larger OS updates & larger apps. An older phone had just 8GB storage which was swallowed up OS and a few apps.It's frustrating that not all the phones you mention are available in Australia & other countries. Grey imports are possible but do you risk getting a 2nd hand phone with no warranty? OnePlus models and Samsung Galaxy S10e with 8GB RAM are not available in Australia.
peevee - Thursday, September 12, 2019 - link
"Differences in system performance between devices with the same hardware chipset basically boil down to one aspect: software."You forgot Flash and RAM choice.
peevee - Thursday, September 12, 2019 - link
"Finally, in the overall score, the ZTE RedMagic 3 comes at the top alongside the Galaxy S10"In your list it is S10+. These are very different devices, and you cannot infer the performance of S10 from S10+.
peevee - Thursday, September 12, 2019 - link
GPU "performance" - test after test of OFF SCREEN "performance". Does anybody play off screen? Show the real thing, so everybody would see the real cost of those useless extra-invisible pixels, and real advantage or lack of thereof of "90fps" and "120fps" - COMBINED with the battery life effects of all these!shadowx360 - Thursday, September 12, 2019 - link
Should have waited a month to write this article. Seeing how the Pixel 3 is barely edged out by these SD855 devices, Pixel 4 is going to wipe the floor.eastcoast_pete - Saturday, September 14, 2019 - link
Hi Andrei, Any thoughts on the (very pricey) ASUS ROG phone (the most recent one)? Seems to be the gaming phone to have if money is no object. Also, up to 1 TB storage (!), and a 6,000 mAh battery.JKJK - Sunday, September 15, 2019 - link
Nothing about wifi6?Come on!
Hayden11 - Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - link
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