They're not illegal. It's just that voiding a warranty based solely on breaking a factory seal (unless that seal is critical to the operation of the item in question like say opening a helium filled HDD casing) is no longer legally enforceable in the United States when it is reasonably possible for the owner to perform self-service or upgrades. In something like a desktop PC case filled with components that can be swapped or can accept new hardware it's an obvious thing that you can't void something out by adding RAM. A PSU that lacks user serviceable parts is an arguably different critter though so that sticker might actually pass muster in court.
Courts had to later decide whether or not the law applied to PC hardware and there was subsequent litigation regarding the matter that verified the voiding a warranty was not something that could be enforced for computing equipment. I'd be reluctant to say the decision was broad enough to encompass component-level items like power supplies though as there are no parts inside that are designed with end user modular upgrade capabilities in mind which circles back to my prior post. Where the is obvious user upgrade and replacement capabilities inside a PC, the lack inside a power supply gives the PSU manufacturer a lot more leverage to legitimately void a warranty if tampering is evident.
It's a PSU, not a laptop - you're not going to upgrade it with third-party components.
The provision that made the stickers a problem on *laptops and games consoles* is that "No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name".
In the context of games consoles this was decided to be relevant as people should be able to have a third-party technician upgrade their hard drive, or do it themselves - rather than being restricted to "PlayBox authorised technicians". However it is not relevant to a power supply.
It should also be noted that this law does not prevent the use of tamper seals, even in laptops and games consoles - it just requires that they not mislead consumers about their rights.
It's also worth mentioning that some GPU manufacturers who have been criticised for the stickers, such as XFX, will install a third-party cooler for *free* and so are completely entitled to condition the warranty on you not installing the cooler yourself (even though they'll usually be happy to authorise you to do so and make a note that your warranty remians intact if you make contact).
Ultimately it's complicated and '"Warranty void if seal is broken" stickers are illegal now' is at best a serious oversimplification.
While the stickers aren't "illegal", they aren't enforceable. There's nothing complicated about it. The law is that a company cannot void a warranty simply because a user breaks a seal. A warranty can only be legally voided if the company can prove that the user's actions actually resulted in the damage the user is attempting to make a warranty claim for. Otherwise, the company must honor their warranty. An arbitrary determination of what is "user-serviceable" or not by a company does not matter.
Those stickers are unenforceable period. Unlike the prior posters claim they aren't "illegal" they are just a lie and totally unenforceable. To void a warranty requires that the manufacturer prove the user damaged the device. PERIOD. That is true for consoles, that is true for power supplies, hell that is true for lightbulbs.
Exactly, I know Anandtech is a US site, but a lot of readers are international. I am surprised how narrow minded most Americans are about globalization, it's like they live in a bubble, no offense, just find it funny that's all. Surely that sticker is there not because they are targeting US customers and it may well be unenforceable in the US, but for majority of the population in the world the legislation is different. This should be the first thing that spring into the mind for those commenting.
MobiusPizza come on man, I thought people on this site were better than that -"I am surprised how narrow minded most Americans are about globalization," that could be said about almost any other country on the planet. Brexit being the comically obvious example. We just have the largest English speaking population and trashing on "americas" is like trashing on one age demographic for the media. While not necessarily wrong there just doing it for the clicks/views. Also while globalization is very much increasing make no mistake we are still about a quarter of the GLOBAL GDP. Almost any product on the market at any reasonable scale is made for the US market and adapted for other countries. (I’m not saying this is a or bad thing) Do some research into standards body and that will become apparent. Phones, planes etc. Those warranty stickers are very much to deter US customers from opening up devices.
I thought people on this site were better than that -"I am surprised how narrow minded most Americans are about globalization," that could be said about almost any other country on the planet. Brexit being the comically obvious example. We just have the largest English speaking population and trashing on "americas" is like trashing on one age demographic for the media. While not necessarily wrong there just doing it for the clicks/views. Also while globalization is very much increasing make no mistake we are still about a quarter of the GLOBAL GDP. Almost any product on the market at any reasonable scale is made for the US market and adapted for other countries. (I’m not saying this is a or bad thing) Do some research into standards body and that will become apparent.
Zepi your point "Over 95% of world population doesn't live in US" is "irrelevant" in this case. As the US makes up ~24% of GLOBAL GDP. Ie we are the worlds largest consumers and while counties like China are close as I'm sure you know they play by a different rule book over there. So laws that are very applicable in the "western world" are not a factor (at least yet). So these stickers are very much for the US market even if they only are applicable in say Germany or the UK.
No, it wouldn't pass muster in court. The law doesn't make exceptions of non-user serviceable parts. If it did then every manufacturer would simply declare their products "non-serviceable". FYI power supplies ARE user serviceable if you discharge the capacitors, it's just not recommended for amateurs. To a certain degree all parts are serviceable assuming you have enough skill. The law isn't going to start guessing which are and which aren't.
If companies want to void warranties they are going to have to prove the customer damaged the item, not because of some arbitrary definition of what is and isn't serviceable or some silly sticker.
They’re not illegal they are unenforceable in the US (regardless of what some people say about the user serviceable) but these are sold in the North America (content not region of the US) that includes markets such as Canada where it might be enforceable (I don’t know Canadian laws). It’s not a US Exclusive product. That’s why they are on there.
I haven't seen this in any PSU review till date, but in addition to quoting ripple (rms?), it would be useful to show a voltage power spectrum (V^2/Hz vs Hz). This will clearly show noise at various frequencies. You could also integrate this PSD to get cumulative noise (should be equivalent to RMS).
I would not suggest this to any other run of the mill review site, but you guys seem to do a good job of providing technical analysis and details.
PS: I can post a MATLAB script to do this if you want.
While I can't speak from experience, the article itself seems to answer your question. Sirfa units, by themselves, are generally not high quality. However, Fractal's modifications to the platform has resulted in a product that is top-tier, and appears to beat other brand's products, even Seasonic, in most every measure.
Agreed. I had never heard of Sirfa, but based on reading the review I feel like the normal Sirfa PSU is a completely different animal to what Fractal Design has had them build. These new Fractal Design PSU's certainly impressed the knowledgeable reviewer. And on top of the apparent quality and benchmark performance, a company like Fractal Design is willing to put a 10 year warranty on them, I think you can bet on them being pretty top notch.
Weak sauce for Fractal using those bogus "void if seal broken" stickers. Lying to customers is not cool. I don't do business with companies that blatantly lie to their customers.
No Anandtech cookie award for what seems to be a top-notch PSU? Whats holding it back from getting a "top buy"-medal or such? Or have you given up on them.
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mat9v - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
I wonder, did they not get the memo, that "Warranty void if seal is broken" stickers are illegal now?PeachNCream - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
They're not illegal. It's just that voiding a warranty based solely on breaking a factory seal (unless that seal is critical to the operation of the item in question like say opening a helium filled HDD casing) is no longer legally enforceable in the United States when it is reasonably possible for the owner to perform self-service or upgrades. In something like a desktop PC case filled with components that can be swapped or can accept new hardware it's an obvious thing that you can't void something out by adding RAM. A PSU that lacks user serviceable parts is an arguably different critter though so that sticker might actually pass muster in court.notashill - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
Those stickers have been unenforceable since before PCs even existed, the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act was passed in 1975.PeachNCream - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
Courts had to later decide whether or not the law applied to PC hardware and there was subsequent litigation regarding the matter that verified the voiding a warranty was not something that could be enforced for computing equipment. I'd be reluctant to say the decision was broad enough to encompass component-level items like power supplies though as there are no parts inside that are designed with end user modular upgrade capabilities in mind which circles back to my prior post. Where the is obvious user upgrade and replacement capabilities inside a PC, the lack inside a power supply gives the PSU manufacturer a lot more leverage to legitimately void a warranty if tampering is evident.mickulty - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
It's a PSU, not a laptop - you're not going to upgrade it with third-party components.The provision that made the stickers a problem on *laptops and games consoles* is that "No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name".
In the context of games consoles this was decided to be relevant as people should be able to have a third-party technician upgrade their hard drive, or do it themselves - rather than being restricted to "PlayBox authorised technicians". However it is not relevant to a power supply.
It should also be noted that this law does not prevent the use of tamper seals, even in laptops and games consoles - it just requires that they not mislead consumers about their rights.
It's also worth mentioning that some GPU manufacturers who have been criticised for the stickers, such as XFX, will install a third-party cooler for *free* and so are completely entitled to condition the warranty on you not installing the cooler yourself (even though they'll usually be happy to authorise you to do so and make a note that your warranty remians intact if you make contact).
Ultimately it's complicated and '"Warranty void if seal is broken" stickers are illegal now' is at best a serious oversimplification.
kyuu - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
While the stickers aren't "illegal", they aren't enforceable. There's nothing complicated about it. The law is that a company cannot void a warranty simply because a user breaks a seal. A warranty can only be legally voided if the company can prove that the user's actions actually resulted in the damage the user is attempting to make a warranty claim for. Otherwise, the company must honor their warranty. An arbitrary determination of what is "user-serviceable" or not by a company does not matter.TheUnhandledException - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Those stickers are unenforceable period. Unlike the prior posters claim they aren't "illegal" they are just a lie and totally unenforceable. To void a warranty requires that the manufacturer prove the user damaged the device. PERIOD. That is true for consoles, that is true for power supplies, hell that is true for lightbulbs.zepi - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Over 95% of world population doesn't live in US and therefore US legislation is mostly irrelevant for them.MobiusPizza - Thursday, August 8, 2019 - link
Exactly, I know Anandtech is a US site, but a lot of readers are international.I am surprised how narrow minded most Americans are about globalization, it's like they live in a bubble, no offense, just find it funny that's all. Surely that sticker is there not because they are targeting US customers and it may well be unenforceable in the US, but for majority of the population in the world the legislation is different. This should be the first thing that spring into the mind for those commenting.
Skeptical123 - Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - link
MobiusPizza come on man, I thought people on this site were better than that -"I am surprised how narrow minded most Americans are about globalization," that could be said about almost any other country on the planet. Brexit being the comically obvious example. We just have the largest English speaking population and trashing on "americas" is like trashing on one age demographic for the media. While not necessarily wrong there just doing it for the clicks/views. Also while globalization is very much increasing make no mistake we are still about a quarter of the GLOBAL GDP. Almost any product on the market at any reasonable scale is made for the US market and adapted for other countries. (I’m not saying this is a or bad thing) Do some research into standards body and that will become apparent. Phones, planes etc. Those warranty stickers are very much to deter US customers from opening up devices.Jane_JJ - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
I thought people on this site were better than that -"I am surprised how narrow minded most Americans are about globalization," that could be said about almost any other country on the planet. Brexit being the comically obvious example. We just have the largest English speaking population and trashing on "americas" is like trashing on one age demographic for the media. While not necessarily wrong there just doing it for the clicks/views. Also while globalization is very much increasing make no mistake we are still about a quarter of the GLOBAL GDP. Almost any product on the market at any reasonable scale is made for the US market and adapted for other countries. (I’m not saying this is a or bad thing) Do some research into standards body and that will become apparent.fist003 - Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - link
thisSkeptical123 - Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - link
Zepi your point "Over 95% of world population doesn't live in US" is "irrelevant" in this case. As the US makes up ~24% of GLOBAL GDP. Ie we are the worlds largest consumers and while counties like China are close as I'm sure you know they play by a different rule book over there. So laws that are very applicable in the "western world" are not a factor (at least yet). So these stickers are very much for the US market even if they only are applicable in say Germany or the UK.evernessince - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
No, it wouldn't pass muster in court. The law doesn't make exceptions of non-user serviceable parts. If it did then every manufacturer would simply declare their products "non-serviceable". FYI power supplies ARE user serviceable if you discharge the capacitors, it's just not recommended for amateurs. To a certain degree all parts are serviceable assuming you have enough skill. The law isn't going to start guessing which are and which aren't.If companies want to void warranties they are going to have to prove the customer damaged the item, not because of some arbitrary definition of what is and isn't serviceable or some silly sticker.
Peichen - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Another Asian product with an European label for premiumAlyxSharkBite - Saturday, August 17, 2019 - link
They’re not illegal they are unenforceable in the US (regardless of what some people say about the user serviceable) but these are sold in the North America (content not region of the US) that includes markets such as Canada where it might be enforceable (I don’t know Canadian laws). It’s not a US Exclusive product. That’s why they are on there.YB1064 - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
I haven't seen this in any PSU review till date, but in addition to quoting ripple (rms?), it would be useful to show a voltage power spectrum (V^2/Hz vs Hz). This will clearly show noise at various frequencies. You could also integrate this PSD to get cumulative noise (should be equivalent to RMS).I would not suggest this to any other run of the mill review site, but you guys seem to do a good job of providing technical analysis and details.
PS: I can post a MATLAB script to do this if you want.
umano - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
That sounds good, upvote!Chaitanya - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
Compared to seasonic how good are the sirfa units?kyuu - Tuesday, August 6, 2019 - link
While I can't speak from experience, the article itself seems to answer your question. Sirfa units, by themselves, are generally not high quality. However, Fractal's modifications to the platform has resulted in a product that is top-tier, and appears to beat other brand's products, even Seasonic, in most every measure.cygnus1 - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Agreed. I had never heard of Sirfa, but based on reading the review I feel like the normal Sirfa PSU is a completely different animal to what Fractal Design has had them build. These new Fractal Design PSU's certainly impressed the knowledgeable reviewer. And on top of the apparent quality and benchmark performance, a company like Fractal Design is willing to put a 10 year warranty on them, I think you can bet on them being pretty top notch.TheUnhandledException - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
Weak sauce for Fractal using those bogus "void if seal broken" stickers. Lying to customers is not cool. I don't do business with companies that blatantly lie to their customers.eva02langley - Wednesday, August 7, 2019 - link
I trust your review better than Toms who actually have the total opposite opinion about the new Fractal Design power supplies.https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fractal-desig...
sheh - Saturday, August 10, 2019 - link
The text says the fan start at 300W, but the graph shows a temperature drop starting at about 220W?https://images.anandtech.com/doci/14693/Cold3.png
juhatus - Thursday, August 15, 2019 - link
No Anandtech cookie award for what seems to be a top-notch PSU? Whats holding it back from getting a "top buy"-medal or such? Or have you given up on them.Timur Born - Saturday, August 17, 2019 - link
Unfortunately no mention of electronics noise, only fan noise.Thanks for the otherwise good review, though.
quickbooks0 - Wednesday, September 4, 2019 - link
Its a great pleasure reading your article post