Thats not anywhere enough to replace my existing NH-D15. However it sounds like it may be able to handle additional wattage so overclocking results could prove out to be better. I suppose I'll keep an eye out for reviews.
Its not better enough to upgrade from the existing model, but its an upgrade for people who have yet to upgrade their cooler yet. This is how almost every industry works...
The difference in performance may be a little larger depending on what CPU you're cooling and ambient temp, so yeah we'll have to see how they do in reviews. I'd bet it's still not worth it if you already have the older model, but it's good that they continue to refine and enhance their lineup periodically.
Same. Why deal with all the complexity of water, a pump, a large separated heat exchanger, tubing etc. when a well-designed cube of metal pancakes performs similarly?
Because, after jumping through all those loops, you still end up with spinning fans :D Water can move more heat if that's what you need, but if you want silence you can safely stick with air.
Water needs pumps, and those are usually at least as loud at "low" loads - which for coolers like this means almost any load you're likely to throw at it. I mean, your proc has around a 100W tdp, so even if you're overclocking you're unlikely to hit more than 200W sustained, and that's low for a 400W cooler. And that means you'll hardly hear the fans.
because it doesn't. heatpipes cannot move heat as quickly or efficiently as water flowing in a tube. Air is fine for modest overclocks or stock in most situations but water is significantly more performant in some situations. when the bottleneck isn't your thermal mass but how quickly you can take heat off the die (high voltage) even a thick 120mm AIO can outperform the D15. I tested this extensively myself and concluded that having an enormous lump of metal hanging off my motherboard wasn't worth it over a neat, tidy looking AIO cooler on the front of my case which also allows me to get the parts easier. i returned a D15 recently actually because it failed to outperform my asetek 570LC 120mm with my 2700X. under extreme stress when heat build up overwhelms the air coolers ability to take heat from the die, the aio was up to 10-15c cooler.
i remounted the d15 about 5 times with different paste including kryonaut, made sure excellent contact, etc, so unless my d15 was defective these air coolers are inadequate for me
Well something doesn't add up in your testing because it generally takes 360mm AIO cooler to outshine the D15, and that's at the cost of extra noise. Air has been proven to give better performance at equal noise levels, and to be the better all around solution at each price point. There are plenty of lighter options if the D15 is too much cooler for you. U14s is only 1-3 degrees hotter.
Same! I've always been a bit confused by the popularity of water cooling. Benchmarks showed me more hassle without increased cooling or decreased noise.
I have a full custom watercooled PC I build myself. I have all my fans (4 total) spinning at roughly 1000RPM at all times. CPU never reaches above 70C (4790k with Asus Multicore enhancement enabled at 4.4ghz) and a GTX 980ti (Asus Strix 980ti OC at 1450mhz with effective 8000mhz GDDR5 Ram) which never reaches above 60C in games. the whole system is really quiet.There's no heat in the case at all, since the hot air is being blown outside the case (( Makes a really good heater in the winter haha )). My loop's been going strong for 3 years now, and there's been 0 issues, just regular maintenance. The second advantage, it looks impressive. The universal response when I show my cooling loop to people is "Wow".
To me, watercooling was the greatest thing I've done. It was so much fun to build, and the end result is amazing.
There's 5 fans in total. 1000RPM is not noisy at all with premium fans. Corsair ML series fans. These get up to 1500RPM before emitting noticeable noise. Also I found 1000RPM to be a good sweet spot for me.
4 120mm Fans on 2 240 Radiators, plus an extra back case fan for additional airflow in the case. Like I said, the hard drives are noisier than the cooling system
I think most people are comparing off-the-shelf CLCs to off-the-shelf HSFs. Noctua's high-end models are a better option vs most similarly-priced CLCs IMHO. Once you get to the very high end semi-custom or custom loops, well that's a different story. I mean I've seen water blocks that cost *by themselves* as much as my entire cooling budget (including Noctua U12 series cooler and additional Noctua fans).
Also a LOT of the affordable CLCs have ISSUES with pump noise/rattle or overall reliability/durability that you wouldn't get with your higher-end custom loop. So... yeah. Apples to apples and all that.
Not trying to criticize your experience or results here, it sounds like you've enjoyed the experience as much as the results, but as an air cooling fan (no pun intended) myself that doesn't sound all that impressive.
Granted, I'm not including my GPU in the same loop but my system isn't significantly different (2600K @ 4.2) and my Noctua NH-C14 (yes, the downblower) keeps the CPU at 60-65C under load (P95 max power) with the ULNA adapters (~680 RPM).
The highlight for me hasn't been the performance though, even if I can't complain about that, but rather that my total maintenance since I built the system in 2011 has been to blow through the fans and fin stack with a can of compressed air. Twice.
Personally I feel water cooling makes sense only as a tinkering project, much like extensive overclocking or you general car enthusiast. If you care about cooling only as an aggregate of performance, reliability and noise you can't beat good air cooling.
That 70C was under a Cinebench run, the CPU hovers around 60C under normal use. Sometimes a bit higher, but eh. The GPU is what made the whole deal worth it. dropping that noisy fan setup (2000 RPM on 3 GPU fans was noisy), and dropping 25C on temps, that's awesome. the 4790k is also a normally hot running chip, due to using TIM and not solder. I could get better cooling if I wanted to up the speed of my fans, but where they are now, it's a perfect solution
I've used a couple AMD graphics cards with reference coolers, the 4870 and 6950 to be precise, so I understand the pain of a noisy GPU all too well. :)
These days I know to wait for better cooling solutions. :P
Regarding the 4790K... well, ouch! I didn't know it was such a hot chip, you learn something new every day.
I got similar performance with my d14 and a delidded 4770k at 4.5ghz with a stock 1080 ti. That cooler is going on 10 years/3 builds now, and is "silent" in an ITX HTPC. I could get several builds more builds out of it too. Not sure what happens to heatpipes after a decade though.
Well, I had a custom WC setup for years. Once set it worked great for between one and two years without maintenance. The real draw is getting the GPU under water and getting a few degrees off the CPU for some better overclocks. I could clock about 100 MHz more on the GPU core and memory clock as well as 200 MHz on the CPU. If you don't care about that and the hassle, WC ain't for you. It's also not that widespread, it's just that a lot of people who talk online about hardware also have a WC setup. Decreasing noise while increasing performance is very possible though, just need to invest money and time into it. The best air cooling will never rival the best watercooling, that's just a fact. But you have to set the line somewhere and for many people it's not for them. With the advent of dual tower air coolers, water cooling lost a lot of steam for the casual enthusiasts.
It depends on if you need to move the PC around. Several hundred grams / 1+ kilo of aluminium/copper mounted to the motherboard via the PCB with a 120mm/140mm lever arm is bad news for travel. An AIO or custom loop mounts the heavy stuff to the chassis directly, and just a small block sat down low on the board is much gentler. Plus for compact cases liquid loops allow folded designs that are near-impossible with COTS heatsinks (without custom-bent heatpipes).
Yeah. I'd be more interested in the BLACK D15s and 14s they were talking about at computex or ces about a year ago that have still yet to surface let alone any update from Noctua regarding what's happening with them.
I wonder how close they are too realistic thermodynamic limits? I assume Noctua has to be pretty close. With that being the case the only new coolers from Noctua should just be the "same" cooler but with slight size changes to fit the current market.
Without increasing size or air volume/speed as far as I know the next thing to change to increase performance would be switching to copper heat fins from aluminum. Which might give you another half a degree for an extra $50-$100 xd
I suppose that the profit margin on coolers is high enough to make it worth putting three sets of mounting hardware in the box and low enough that you don't want to handle returns from people who ordered NH-D9-2066 when they needed NH-D9-AM4, but I feel a bit guilty throwing away a dozen plastic spacers of different sizes and three carefully-bent pieces of metal every time I buy a modestly high-end cooler.
(not as guilty as I feel throwing away AIO water-cooling systems whose pumps have stopped pumping; but I can resolve that by never buying another water-cooling system)
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
38 Comments
Back to Article
FreckledTrout - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Thats not anywhere enough to replace my existing NH-D15. However it sounds like it may be able to handle additional wattage so overclocking results could prove out to be better. I suppose I'll keep an eye out for reviews.thesavvymage - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Its not better enough to upgrade from the existing model, but its an upgrade for people who have yet to upgrade their cooler yet. This is how almost every industry works...Alexvrb - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
The difference in performance may be a little larger depending on what CPU you're cooling and ambient temp, so yeah we'll have to see how they do in reviews. I'd bet it's still not worth it if you already have the older model, but it's good that they continue to refine and enhance their lineup periodically.Beaver M. - Thursday, June 27, 2019 - link
Overclocked 8+ core systems, you mean.Those systems are a real challenge for air coolers.
satai - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Noctuas are exactly the reason I never considered water cooling for more then 1/2 hour needed to google a performance+(mainly)noise comparison.Sivar - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Same. Why deal with all the complexity of water, a pump, a large separated heat exchanger, tubing etc. when a well-designed cube of metal pancakes performs similarly?bug77 - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Because, after jumping through all those loops, you still end up with spinning fans :DWater can move more heat if that's what you need, but if you want silence you can safely stick with air.
emn13 - Sunday, June 30, 2019 - link
Water needs pumps, and those are usually at least as loud at "low" loads - which for coolers like this means almost any load you're likely to throw at it. I mean, your proc has around a 100W tdp, so even if you're overclocking you're unlikely to hit more than 200W sustained, and that's low for a 400W cooler. And that means you'll hardly hear the fans.AshlayW - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
because it doesn't. heatpipes cannot move heat as quickly or efficiently as water flowing in a tube. Air is fine for modest overclocks or stock in most situations but water is significantly more performant in some situations. when the bottleneck isn't your thermal mass but how quickly you can take heat off the die (high voltage) even a thick 120mm AIO can outperform the D15. I tested this extensively myself and concluded that having an enormous lump of metal hanging off my motherboard wasn't worth it over a neat, tidy looking AIO cooler on the front of my case which also allows me to get the parts easier.i returned a D15 recently actually because it failed to outperform my asetek 570LC 120mm with my 2700X. under extreme stress when heat build up overwhelms the air coolers ability to take heat from the die, the aio was up to 10-15c cooler.
i remounted the d15 about 5 times with different paste including kryonaut, made sure excellent contact, etc, so unless my d15 was defective these air coolers are inadequate for me
Showtime - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
Well something doesn't add up in your testing because it generally takes 360mm AIO cooler to outshine the D15, and that's at the cost of extra noise. Air has been proven to give better performance at equal noise levels, and to be the better all around solution at each price point.There are plenty of lighter options if the D15 is too much cooler for you. U14s is only 1-3 degrees hotter.
Beaver M. - Thursday, June 27, 2019 - link
Exactly.Beaver M. - Thursday, June 27, 2019 - link
Not to mention possible leaks.nwrigley - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Same! I've always been a bit confused by the popularity of water cooling. Benchmarks showed me more hassle without increased cooling or decreased noise.Xyler94 - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
I can only speak of my own experiences of course,I have a full custom watercooled PC I build myself. I have all my fans (4 total) spinning at roughly 1000RPM at all times. CPU never reaches above 70C (4790k with Asus Multicore enhancement enabled at 4.4ghz) and a GTX 980ti (Asus Strix 980ti OC at 1450mhz with effective 8000mhz GDDR5 Ram) which never reaches above 60C in games. the whole system is really quiet.There's no heat in the case at all, since the hot air is being blown outside the case (( Makes a really good heater in the winter haha )). My loop's been going strong for 3 years now, and there's been 0 issues, just regular maintenance. The second advantage, it looks impressive. The universal response when I show my cooling loop to people is "Wow".
To me, watercooling was the greatest thing I've done. It was so much fun to build, and the end result is amazing.
Xyler94 - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
To add onto the noise, the hard drives in the system are way noisier than the pump and fans are.satai - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
1000RPM sounds terribly high RPMs to me. And to have 4 fans in a system sounds to be a very low number for a holistic system solution.Xyler94 - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
There's 5 fans in total. 1000RPM is not noisy at all with premium fans. Corsair ML series fans. These get up to 1500RPM before emitting noticeable noise. Also I found 1000RPM to be a good sweet spot for me.4 120mm Fans on 2 240 Radiators, plus an extra back case fan for additional airflow in the case. Like I said, the hard drives are noisier than the cooling system
Alexvrb - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
I think most people are comparing off-the-shelf CLCs to off-the-shelf HSFs. Noctua's high-end models are a better option vs most similarly-priced CLCs IMHO. Once you get to the very high end semi-custom or custom loops, well that's a different story. I mean I've seen water blocks that cost *by themselves* as much as my entire cooling budget (including Noctua U12 series cooler and additional Noctua fans).Also a LOT of the affordable CLCs have ISSUES with pump noise/rattle or overall reliability/durability that you wouldn't get with your higher-end custom loop.
So... yeah. Apples to apples and all that.
Xyler94 - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
A high-end air cooler will always beat a CLC, I don't really recommend most CLCs, as they aren't reliable in the long run...Exodite - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
Not trying to criticize your experience or results here, it sounds like you've enjoyed the experience as much as the results, but as an air cooling fan (no pun intended) myself that doesn't sound all that impressive.Granted, I'm not including my GPU in the same loop but my system isn't significantly different (2600K @ 4.2) and my Noctua NH-C14 (yes, the downblower) keeps the CPU at 60-65C under load (P95 max power) with the ULNA adapters (~680 RPM).
The highlight for me hasn't been the performance though, even if I can't complain about that, but rather that my total maintenance since I built the system in 2011 has been to blow through the fans and fin stack with a can of compressed air. Twice.
Personally I feel water cooling makes sense only as a tinkering project, much like extensive overclocking or you general car enthusiast. If you care about cooling only as an aggregate of performance, reliability and noise you can't beat good air cooling.
YMMV.
Exodite - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
*yourXyler94 - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
That 70C was under a Cinebench run, the CPU hovers around 60C under normal use. Sometimes a bit higher, but eh. The GPU is what made the whole deal worth it. dropping that noisy fan setup (2000 RPM on 3 GPU fans was noisy), and dropping 25C on temps, that's awesome. the 4790k is also a normally hot running chip, due to using TIM and not solder. I could get better cooling if I wanted to up the speed of my fans, but where they are now, it's a perfect solutionExodite - Thursday, June 27, 2019 - link
*nod* Roger on the GPU!I've used a couple AMD graphics cards with reference coolers, the 4870 and 6950 to be precise, so I understand the pain of a noisy GPU all too well. :)
These days I know to wait for better cooling solutions. :P
Regarding the 4790K... well, ouch! I didn't know it was such a hot chip, you learn something new every day.
Showtime - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
I got similar performance with my d14 and a delidded 4770k at 4.5ghz with a stock 1080 ti. That cooler is going on 10 years/3 builds now, and is "silent" in an ITX HTPC. I could get several builds more builds out of it too. Not sure what happens to heatpipes after a decade though.Exodite - Thursday, June 27, 2019 - link
I have no idea, I suppose you'd see it on the temps when/if anything starts to degrade.I'm going to stick to the C14 for my next build as well, assuming I can get my hands on an AM4 mounting bracket. :)
Death666Angel - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Well, I had a custom WC setup for years. Once set it worked great for between one and two years without maintenance. The real draw is getting the GPU under water and getting a few degrees off the CPU for some better overclocks. I could clock about 100 MHz more on the GPU core and memory clock as well as 200 MHz on the CPU. If you don't care about that and the hassle, WC ain't for you. It's also not that widespread, it's just that a lot of people who talk online about hardware also have a WC setup. Decreasing noise while increasing performance is very possible though, just need to invest money and time into it. The best air cooling will never rival the best watercooling, that's just a fact. But you have to set the line somewhere and for many people it's not for them. With the advent of dual tower air coolers, water cooling lost a lot of steam for the casual enthusiasts.edzieba - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
It depends on if you need to move the PC around. Several hundred grams / 1+ kilo of aluminium/copper mounted to the motherboard via the PCB with a 120mm/140mm lever arm is bad news for travel. An AIO or custom loop mounts the heavy stuff to the chassis directly, and just a small block sat down low on the board is much gentler. Plus for compact cases liquid loops allow folded designs that are near-impossible with COTS heatsinks (without custom-bent heatpipes).Chaitanya - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Noctua has been showing off replacement for Nh-D15 for quite sometime without actually releasing it.GreenReaper - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Probably looking to get that extra 0.1C so they can announce a whole degree difference.AngryCoffeeTable - Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - link
Yeah. I'd be more interested in the BLACK D15s and 14s they were talking about at computex or ces about a year ago that have still yet to surface let alone any update from Noctua regarding what's happening with them.I ended up gettin a Dark Rock Pro 4 instead
piroroadkill - Friday, June 28, 2019 - link
They sell the covers already, as promised:https://noctua.at/en/products/accessories/heatsink...
And they sell black fans with colour coordinated vibration mounts, as promised:
https://noctua.at/en/nf-a15-hs-pwm-chromax-black-s...
So I'm not entirely sure what you're waiting for.
piiman - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link
I'm waiting for a AIO with them included so I don't have to spend MOREpiroroadkill - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
Nice, but they better hurry... I'd love to buy a newer high end Noctua when I build a new Zen 2 rig...Skeptical123 - Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - link
I wonder how close they are too realistic thermodynamic limits? I assume Noctua has to be pretty close. With that being the case the only new coolers from Noctua should just be the "same" cooler but with slight size changes to fit the current market.Without increasing size or air volume/speed as far as I know the next thing to change to increase performance would be switching to copper heat fins from aluminum. Which might give you another half a degree for an extra $50-$100 xd
Mikewind Dale - Sunday, June 30, 2019 - link
I want a solid gold heatsink!Mikewind Dale - Sunday, June 30, 2019 - link
Update: it appears that silver is slightly more thermally conductive than gold.Still, I want gold!
TomWomack - Saturday, June 29, 2019 - link
I suppose that the profit margin on coolers is high enough to make it worth putting three sets of mounting hardware in the box and low enough that you don't want to handle returns from people who ordered NH-D9-2066 when they needed NH-D9-AM4, but I feel a bit guilty throwing away a dozen plastic spacers of different sizes and three carefully-bent pieces of metal every time I buy a modestly high-end cooler.(not as guilty as I feel throwing away AIO water-cooling systems whose pumps have stopped pumping; but I can resolve that by never buying another water-cooling system)
shoeish - Monday, November 25, 2019 - link
What are the "dummy" heaters they are using and how can I get a few?