Still wondering when we get to see the B550-boards, as these X570-chips are total overkill for most users and hotheaded aswell and not suitable for a mITX-systrem imho.
There are Intel HEDT miniITX systems (with a much larger socket area for example), so I think these will be fine. Although I wouldn't mind B550 to arrive soon, but I heard it will be in 2020.
Seemed like people discussing in the forums indicate that AMD has likely been waiting on ASMedia to get their PCIe 4 chipset worked out, and that it'll be probably next year. Maybe launch alongside Zen 2 APUs.
Displayport in? I'd think HDMI in would be a lot more popular (but maybe its more difficult to manage due to DRM/HDCP related stuff?). Personally, I wish all of those ports would be input/output capable (and that laptops and tablets would be able to do video in). Heck, I think there would be a market for All-in-Wonder style cards that featured digital tuner and HDMI capture capability.
The rest sounds decent. I'd like some more USB ports myself (for me best setup would be 2 TB3, 2 USB-C latest gen, and then 4 USB-A latest gen ports).
DP in instead of HDMI is because thunderbolt has native passthrough support for the former; which simplifies routing the video from your DGPU to a display on the end of the thunderbolt port.
The video-in port is DP because it's not for video capture- It's there to allow a PCIe GPU to pass video to the Thunderbolt controller to allow for TB3 displays to be connected. Some TB3-equipped Intel boards have passthrough ports too, AFAIK there's no way to use them for capture. It just sends the signal to the Thunderbolt port. It has to be DP because that's the signaling that TB uses for its video modes.
this way is (despite the requirement for external passthru cables) less convoluted. Thunderbolt uses DisplayPort signals for its video mode. GPUs do not pass DP signals directly thru the PCIe slot**. Doing without the cable would require something like a setup where the GPU passes video frames across the PCIe bus to the CPU which would send a video stream back over the PCIe bus to a dedicated DP encoder chip that would then send a DP stream to the Thunderbolt 3 controller via a line in the motherboard.
AFAIK there's no standards for doing that which makes the required interactions between hardware/firmware/software rather daunting, probably requiring custom GPU drivers for best performance, or a software solution (akin to how GPU-accelerated remote desktop works) that would reduce performance and add latency and more failure points/compatibility issues. Easier to just use the DP encoder on the GPU and an external cable.
** laptops with dGPU and Thunderbolt don't need the passthru cable because the dGPU is already passing DP (technically eDP) signal either thru dedicated pins on the MXM slot or directly onto the motherboard for soldered GPUs.
But since a DP encoder on the GPU already, would it not be possible to send signals from the GPU's DP encoder back over the PCIe bus to the CPU/TB3 gear, avoiding the need for the second DP encoder you refer to?
That's probably a question of money. If you go the PCIe route, every graphics card would need the ability to output the video stream via PCIe and I don't think that is mainstream or even a standard right now, meaning very limited graphics card support. It sure as hell would make things on every card more complicated and costly for the one or two TB boards out there that will have a small market share. Also, I don't think you understand his DP encoder setup. Doing it over the PCIe bus would mean getting another DP encoder somewhere. Doing it via DP port can use the already existing DP encoder. This is the path of least resistance.
Note that there are standardized ways to send things back *if you have an IGP*, by sending raw video data (not DisplayPort packets) over PCIe.
Nvidia Optimus and AMD Switchable Graphics both support a mode in which the PCI-E GPU uses DMA to put the video content into the IGP's framebuffer, and then the IGP handles getting it to the display. This is the cheaper way to implement graphics switching (the more expensive way involves muxes that actually switch the outputs between the two GPUs), and it's also how Thunderbolt external GPU boxes work. (And, it's how the hack that someone discovered to get VESA Adaptive Sync working on a Nvidia GPU, involving slapping a second AMD GPU in and connecting your monitors to it, before Nvidia did the whole "G-Sync Compatible" thing, worked.)
Any news on what is driving the Thunderbolt 3 on this system. It actually good news to see Thunderbolt 3 on non Intel systems. It probably become more important since it part of USB4 standard.
Also the B550 won't offer PCIe 4.0 for graphics cards, only for M.2 storage options. So I think the 570 has a place for ITX boards if you want to run it with a PCIe 4.0 GPU.
Even current motherboard can provide PCIe "3.5" performance. Even using old chipset new motherboard should be able to reach a PCIe bandwidth close to PCIe 4.
how is that possible? Either it's using PCIe 3.0 signaling which is intrinsically limited to PCIe 3.0 speeds, or it's using PCIe 4.0 signaling which intrinsically allows PCIe 4.0 speeds. There's no such thing as PCIe 3.5 and that kind of data bus isn't something that can be "overclocked" because any deviation from the standards on the part of mobo manufacturers would break compatibility with add-in cards.
There is no such thing. It is PCIe 3 or it is PCIe 4. The card, host, and interface run a set speed they don't just randomly pick a speed somewhere between the two standards. Now PCIe is both forwards and backwards compatible but everything runs at the lowest common denominator. 3.0 card in a 4.0 slot = 3.0 speed. 4.0 card in a 3.0 slot = 3.0 speed.
Not sure why it wouldn't since the x16 PCIe lanes for the graphics card are coming from the CPU (plus the M2 lanes), so in theory we should still have all "direct CPU" PCIe 4 lanes, with the chipset only supporting PCIe 3).
Rumors. Nothing more. And probably false ones. Ryzen 3 has PCIe 4.0 lanes from the CPU, why should it only use 4/24th of those for M.2 storage and not 24/24th for GPU/M.2/chipset and just the chipset doesn't use 4.0 but rather 3.0 (vs 2.0 right now)? That rumor makes little sense.
Nothing is confirmed yet, the thing is ASMedia isn't done yet with their PCIe 4.0, so they need more time. This was the main reason AMD went for an in-house X570.
As for B550 and even other lower end chipset we might see partial PCIe 4.0 implementation like only M.2 or first PCIe slot or both. The reason of "might" is cost. PCIe routing/tracing requires PCIe reclockers chips which add cost. Not to mention the additional design and certification required for the actual motherboard. So even if the non-X570 chipset doesn't support PCIe 4.0 having partial support might be optional even for individual parts, ie PCIe 4 M.2 but not PCIe slot. Or only the first graphics slot, so when doing 8x+8x things will go PCIe 3.0 or a mixed bag dependingon AMD and it's partners like a lower end B550 could feature less PCIe 4.0 than a higher end B550 motherboard.
I assume this won't be cheap, but it looks quite promising.
I'm still undecided whether to go ITX or not with my Zen 2 build. It's either the Define R6 or the Node 304. The Define basically has all the advantages, but the Node is just so adorable.
It's a good mb, but I wanted something like the x299 itx, now there should be 36 available pci 4.0 lanes, dunno if the numbers match but It would have been nice to have 2 m2, thunderbolt 3, and a 10gbe (or 5gbe) network and a es sabre chip for audio. Maybe the apu support need some pci lanes, I don't know, but this motherboard doesn't feel a premium product for a 16 cores cpu
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jrs77 - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
Still wondering when we get to see the B550-boards, as these X570-chips are total overkill for most users and hotheaded aswell and not suitable for a mITX-systrem imho.Death666Angel - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
There are Intel HEDT miniITX systems (with a much larger socket area for example), so I think these will be fine. Although I wouldn't mind B550 to arrive soon, but I heard it will be in 2020.darkswordsman17 - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
Seemed like people discussing in the forums indicate that AMD has likely been waiting on ASMedia to get their PCIe 4 chipset worked out, and that it'll be probably next year. Maybe launch alongside Zen 2 APUs.darkswordsman17 - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
Displayport in? I'd think HDMI in would be a lot more popular (but maybe its more difficult to manage due to DRM/HDCP related stuff?). Personally, I wish all of those ports would be input/output capable (and that laptops and tablets would be able to do video in). Heck, I think there would be a market for All-in-Wonder style cards that featured digital tuner and HDMI capture capability.The rest sounds decent. I'd like some more USB ports myself (for me best setup would be 2 TB3, 2 USB-C latest gen, and then 4 USB-A latest gen ports).
DanNeely - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
DP in instead of HDMI is because thunderbolt has native passthrough support for the former; which simplifies routing the video from your DGPU to a display on the end of the thunderbolt port.KateH - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
The video-in port is DP because it's not for video capture- It's there to allow a PCIe GPU to pass video to the Thunderbolt controller to allow for TB3 displays to be connected. Some TB3-equipped Intel boards have passthrough ports too, AFAIK there's no way to use them for capture. It just sends the signal to the Thunderbolt port. It has to be DP because that's the signaling that TB uses for its video modes.rpg1966 - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Dumb question - why can't the passthrough from GPU->TB3 happen on the motherboard itself?KateH - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
this way is (despite the requirement for external passthru cables) less convoluted.Thunderbolt uses DisplayPort signals for its video mode. GPUs do not pass DP signals directly thru the PCIe slot**. Doing without the cable would require something like a setup where the GPU passes video frames across the PCIe bus to the CPU which would send a video stream back over the PCIe bus to a dedicated DP encoder chip that would then send a DP stream to the Thunderbolt 3 controller via a line in the motherboard.
AFAIK there's no standards for doing that which makes the required interactions between hardware/firmware/software rather daunting, probably requiring custom GPU drivers for best performance, or a software solution (akin to how GPU-accelerated remote desktop works) that would reduce performance and add latency and more failure points/compatibility issues. Easier to just use the DP encoder on the GPU and an external cable.
** laptops with dGPU and Thunderbolt don't need the passthru cable because the dGPU is already passing DP (technically eDP) signal either thru dedicated pins on the MXM slot or directly onto the motherboard for soldered GPUs.
rpg1966 - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Thanks for the detailed reply!But since a DP encoder on the GPU already, would it not be possible to send signals from the GPU's DP encoder back over the PCIe bus to the CPU/TB3 gear, avoiding the need for the second DP encoder you refer to?
Death666Angel - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
That's probably a question of money. If you go the PCIe route, every graphics card would need the ability to output the video stream via PCIe and I don't think that is mainstream or even a standard right now, meaning very limited graphics card support. It sure as hell would make things on every card more complicated and costly for the one or two TB boards out there that will have a small market share. Also, I don't think you understand his DP encoder setup. Doing it over the PCIe bus would mean getting another DP encoder somewhere. Doing it via DP port can use the already existing DP encoder. This is the path of least resistance.ingwe - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Thanks for these awesome explanations! It is one of the reasons that I keep coming here.bhtooefr - Thursday, June 20, 2019 - link
Note that there are standardized ways to send things back *if you have an IGP*, by sending raw video data (not DisplayPort packets) over PCIe.Nvidia Optimus and AMD Switchable Graphics both support a mode in which the PCI-E GPU uses DMA to put the video content into the IGP's framebuffer, and then the IGP handles getting it to the display. This is the cheaper way to implement graphics switching (the more expensive way involves muxes that actually switch the outputs between the two GPUs), and it's also how Thunderbolt external GPU boxes work. (And, it's how the hack that someone discovered to get VESA Adaptive Sync working on a Nvidia GPU, involving slapping a second AMD GPU in and connecting your monitors to it, before Nvidia did the whole "G-Sync Compatible" thing, worked.)
But, all of that needs an IGP to work.
HStewart - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
Any news on what is driving the Thunderbolt 3 on this system. It actually good news to see Thunderbolt 3 on non Intel systems. It probably become more important since it part of USB4 standard.SaturnusDK - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Probably a JHL6540 like most Intel MBs (mobile or otherwise) with a single TB3 port.SaturnusDK - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
I meant JHL6340 obviously. The JHL6540 is the double port version.danielfranklin - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Agreed, i was starting to think there was a limitation or something.5080 - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
Also the B550 won't offer PCIe 4.0 for graphics cards, only for M.2 storage options. So I think the 570 has a place for ITX boards if you want to run it with a PCIe 4.0 GPU.wilsonkf - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
Even current motherboard can provide PCIe "3.5" performance. Even using old chipset new motherboard should be able to reach a PCIe bandwidth close to PCIe 4.KateH - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
how is that possible? Either it's using PCIe 3.0 signaling which is intrinsically limited to PCIe 3.0 speeds, or it's using PCIe 4.0 signaling which intrinsically allows PCIe 4.0 speeds. There's no such thing as PCIe 3.5 and that kind of data bus isn't something that can be "overclocked" because any deviation from the standards on the part of mobo manufacturers would break compatibility with add-in cards.TheUnhandledException - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
There is no such thing. It is PCIe 3 or it is PCIe 4. The card, host, and interface run a set speed they don't just randomly pick a speed somewhere between the two standards. Now PCIe is both forwards and backwards compatible but everything runs at the lowest common denominator. 3.0 card in a 4.0 slot = 3.0 speed. 4.0 card in a 3.0 slot = 3.0 speed.danielfranklin - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
This seems completely wrong.Do you have some sort of reference for this?
Irata - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Not sure why it wouldn't since the x16 PCIe lanes for the graphics card are coming from the CPU (plus the M2 lanes), so in theory we should still have all "direct CPU" PCIe 4 lanes, with the chipset only supporting PCIe 3).This would imho actually be a good compromise.
Death666Angel - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Rumors. Nothing more. And probably false ones. Ryzen 3 has PCIe 4.0 lanes from the CPU, why should it only use 4/24th of those for M.2 storage and not 24/24th for GPU/M.2/chipset and just the chipset doesn't use 4.0 but rather 3.0 (vs 2.0 right now)? That rumor makes little sense.Xajel - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Nothing is confirmed yet, the thing is ASMedia isn't done yet with their PCIe 4.0, so they need more time. This was the main reason AMD went for an in-house X570.As for B550 and even other lower end chipset we might see partial PCIe 4.0 implementation like only M.2 or first PCIe slot or both. The reason of "might" is cost. PCIe routing/tracing requires PCIe reclockers chips which add cost. Not to mention the additional design and certification required for the actual motherboard. So even if the non-X570 chipset doesn't support PCIe 4.0 having partial support might be optional even for individual parts, ie PCIe 4 M.2 but not PCIe slot. Or only the first graphics slot, so when doing 8x+8x things will go PCIe 3.0 or a mixed bag dependingon AMD and it's partners like a lower end B550 could feature less PCIe 4.0 than a higher end B550 motherboard.
liu_d - Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - link
Is it using 115x heatsink mounting points?jtd871 - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Yes it is. Damn!The_Assimilator - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Asrock, why would you make such a nice board, then ruin it by providing a meagre 4 rear USB ports?The_Assimilator - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
"A side of everything" except USB ports.Irata - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
That's what I thought - USB ports are a bit like power outlets - the more the better (and you are usually one short).But four is really way too few.
JHBoricua - Thursday, June 20, 2019 - link
At least they kept the PS/2 keyboard/mouse port. What would I do without it?Konservenknilch - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
I assume this won't be cheap, but it looks quite promising.I'm still undecided whether to go ITX or not with my Zen 2 build. It's either the Define R6 or the Node 304. The Define basically has all the advantages, but the Node is just so adorable.
umano - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
It's a good mb, but I wanted something like the x299 itx, now there should be 36 available pci 4.0 lanes, dunno if the numbers match but It would have been nice to have 2 m2, thunderbolt 3, and a 10gbe (or 5gbe) network and a es sabre chip for audio. Maybe the apu support need some pci lanes, I don't know, but this motherboard doesn't feel a premium product for a 16 cores cpujtd871 - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
Agreed, they should totally pimp one out like their x299 ITX.hanselltc - Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - link
I like this board cuz TB3 on motherboards! On AMD no less! Aaaand then Asrock proceeded to put only 3 USB-A's on it. Gah.mooninite - Thursday, June 20, 2019 - link
Yeah, it has everything... except for a 2.5/5 or 10Gbit NIC. :(T1murik - Sunday, June 23, 2019 - link
m.2 x4?! why? so i cant put m.2 with any gpu?! it will run on slowest speed like a sata?!Ian Cutress - Monday, August 5, 2019 - link
No? CPU can do x16 and x4 at the same time