Also the cost of the (quite large) chipset, redrivers for PCIe, and the VRM. A lot of small cost increases all adding up to a noticeable increase, looks like.
I don't know how you can sell a motherboard at $250-$260 and have a single gigabit Ethernet port. Tons of X470 boards at $250 had something faster than gigabit.
For whom these are designed for gigabit is plenty fast. I've had high end boards with dual gigabit connectors and never had to use more than 1. I personally would love to have my house wired with 10G/baseT, granted for the distances inside a house you can use Cat5e, but the cost of a 10G/BaseT switch is so high most people won't buy it.
Exactly. Have dual ports now, only ever use one and the ports would actually allow teaming but for what? I'm not transferring large amounts of data between devices. Even streaming 4k movies 1gbit is enough.
I never even noticed it only had 1 1Gbit LAN port installed. This makes it an even worse buy since I use both 1 Gbit ports on my current board for access to my multi tier network in my home. For this kind of price I would expect no less than 2 LAN ports and maybe even WIFI which I would not use of coarse.
I highly doubt the market share that wants two ethernet jacks is that large to start with. The amount of people like your self that have "multi tier networks in [their] home" is practically zero. For those that have such high-end setups, I think it's reasonable to assume they are used to using ethernet cards and don't mind doing so. If they don't want to use addon cards they can just buy a different board $50 is not going to make or break it for most of them.
While i do understand that higher pcb quality required and a better vrm make a cost difference. The truth is, mainbaord prices inflated few years ago without real reason (unless you consider few led`s a "reason") .MB prices are just very high, no inflation or costs make up the diffrence that happened. I bought Asus M5a97 evo 2.0 for around 100$. Pushed something around 350W for overclocking tests on it (5ghz flat from FX 8320) .It had good audio, dts connect.Nowadays 200$ at the very least.Did we have 200% inflation in 6 years ?
Welcome to the millennial age where most have no concept of what things should cost and all of those that are more than willing to pay insane prices just to be first on the block to have a shiny new product before anyone else does. Some will say well if those that pay the big prices can afford it then what's the problem. The problem is these big companies see this and adjust their product prices to match all of this which in turn screws over the common person trying to build a new system. All these companies are going to do is pretty much kill off PC gaming by having everything price inflated to the point it is not worth building a gaming PC any more and a lot of people will just switch over to console gaming. The consoles will look even more interesting in 2020 when the next gen ones come out and cost a quarter or less than a decent gaming PC does. I am not a console gamer myself I happen to like PC gaming but at at least I know the next gen consoles will be an option if I just want to spend a fair bit less and still get a decent gaming experience from them.
Your trolling right? If not Interesting. You are the first person I have seen trying to blame millennials for the future sales of next-gen consoles. What you talking about is a simple fact of a free market and has been happing in industries since money was created. If you think the high-end pc component world is expensive I can't imagine what you would think of the high-end car world trends. Or realy anything else. Also you do relize Millennials are current in 2019 22-37 so ie the generations doing most of the work....
Your M5A97 was one of the cheapest boards you could even put a FX processor in at $119. Kind of dishonest to call it "midrange" in my opinion. There were plenty of 990FX boards that launched around $250, and that price was pretty much capped because if you were going to spend that much money you might as well just have bought Intel for better performance.
These X570 boards are the enthusiast chipset and are priced accordingly to what people are willing to spend for high-end boards. There's plenty of great X470/B450 boards around $150 or less that will handle an overclocked 12C Ryzen 3000 just fine. If you must have guaranteed PCIe gen4 there will be B550 boards coming soon to fill that gap too.
Nope. The cheapest ones were like 2x cheaper. It was solid mid range.As you yourself explained it, because high end ones were like 200-250$. The 250$ 990FX boards were high end. Now high end boards are 350-1000$ .But yea, ok , lets exclude the watercooled mobo. Gigabyte master is 600$. This is the same mechanism that apple puts every year.Of course they started earlier co they just arrived at a 1K for a monitor stand.You can ofcourse, call it an enthusiast stand that people are willing to pay for.Thats your right. I call it horseshit.
So the new mid range price is $250 USD yay for people in other parts of the world. So in Canada that becomes $334 and that's just with the exchange rate from US to CAD. Now we have to factor in the Greed factor and of coarse taxes. So about $399.99-$419.99 plus tax. I am not willing to pay $400 for a mid tier board that's stupid crazy. I was planning on getting a new Ryzen system this summer and going with a top end board and was expecting about $279.99-$319.99 as they have been in the past for the top end stuff I am not going to pay $600+ for a board that should not cost more than $349.99. These companies need to wake up and give their head a shake. I am hoping this is either wrong or just a Gigabyte thing and probably ASUS as well. Maybe ASRock will have more sane price. I had never considered them but if they have a decent board at a decent price they will be getting my money this time.
In the past I have either gone with ASUS or Gigabyte and their top end stuff. I have noticed that lately ASUS have tag every product as ROG whether it is top end or mid range. It used to be only ASUS's top tier stuff such as boards got their ROG logo on it. I guess those days are over and even the random junk now gets the ROG stamp of approval as well.
I did a bit of a rant in another post about the prices of these new boards forgetting that these prices are for new products and as always they will most likely come down over a short time in the retail market once the retail outlets start to try to out sell their competition. So I guess if you are in the market for a new system the key here is the wait about 2-3 months and get a new board for a more sane price after the sticker prices go down a bit.
I am going to be in the market for a new system but am fine with waiting for a few months to try to get a good deal on a new board and my other hardware. Then there will be Black Friday deals as well which could be a great time to pick up one of these new boards at 30% off on a Black Friday deal plus the already lowered sticker price.
I also will wait until at least end of summer. I dont need new pc in the summer :). But i dont think they will get reasonably cheaper in that time.And most of the world doesnt really get black friday deals.I just hate overpaying, i paid 200$ for my current x99 mobo and already thought it was a rip off. But it was HEDT and has quad channel 10 satas so on. but now it looks like its gonna be more like 300$ for a board that has much less.
If you are talking to me I am sorry but I will comment if I want to...enough said on that. As for the B550 boards thiose are not even listed yet as to when the release dates are. Besides that why should we have to resort to buying lower end stuff just because some of these companies are trying to drive up the prices to insane pricing and you get some uninformed people that have little to no clue what crap should be worth pay these higher prices without batting an eye. Not everyone or at least people with fully functioning brains are willing to pay extortion pricing type prices. Like I said in a past post about this I will just wait a few months and get the board I want at the price I deem as fair. It won't be a second string B550 series either it will be top tier x570 but at the price I am willing to pay I do not have to be the first on the block to have it so I will end up saving and still get what I want.
Lol rocky12345 keep talking you realize you're still digging right? It sounds like you are just a kid who is salty your income/budget is not high enough to buy what you want on launch day. Have you ever heard something is worth what people are willing to pay for it? Also when you take into account the increased complexity on tolerances needed for newer motherboards and inflation motherboards price's have not changed that much the last two decades. You could argue there has been the creation of a new class of motherboards in the last 10 years. This new tier of high-end MBs catering to people who have the budget and who want the best regardless of practicality. Of which that aligns more with your rants in your comments. But that means your logic of comparing top tier X570 MB as equivalent to whatever top MB you could get 10 years is not valid.
Even though I like to get a great deal even I think spending only $100 on a board is low. The mainboard is the back bone of th system and as such it shoyuld be one of the best built parts in the computer so the rest of the system will also work as it should. The next one would be POwer supply which supplies the juice to run everything. The power supply should be at least top tier and be 80+ rated at least gold. Just my opinion though.
B450 boards that are well-rated, like the GPC, are up to $150. From what I've seen, if one cares at all about VRM one has two choices in B450: GPC and Tomahawk.
MSI, according to Buildzoid, is the only brand with B450 boards that have decent-quality FETs. However, I recently read about MSI swapping quality FETs for low-grade ones in a 2.0 revision of one of its boards so, as always in our unregulated tech world, caveat emptor.
There is also the issue of RAM speed. One of the big selling points of these new Zens is faster RAM support. Who knows if the B450 boards will keep up with their ability, especially now that Samsung B die is no longer being produced.
It's a bad time to be a PC gaming enthusiast. We're getting tons of small cores instead of large powerful cores, small dies instead of dies closer to the reticle limit, smoke and mirrors like Tensor "AI" instead of real advances, slower RAM, higher prices — and all this after the mining pricing insanity stopped. Companies must feel that mining pricing proved they can set prices higher. Since duopoly and oligarchy reigns in the tech world there isn't much competition to save us.
It has been a bad time to be a PC gaming enthusiast for quite some time. The needs of enterprise are drifting further from the needs of the desktop gamer and the process nodes are becoming less of a gain. Not only are they tending to move toward high-density low-power designs instead of lower-density higher-performance designs, the number of design rules (cost to design) keeps increasing — so markets like enthusiast/gamer get leftover scraps. That's what Bulldozer/Piledriver was and that's what all this tiny cores stuff is. Even Radeon VII has a small die, although that's probably more a matter of naked margin-chasing, in conjunction with Apple's deal to use AMD or something.
Imagine if there would be a GPU company that produces a no-compromises GPU that is designed purely for gaming. Not designed for compute (beyond what developers can use for games). Not designed for AI that has no relevance. Not designed to scale from mobile through "high performance". This is something that could exist if there were more competition. A high-performance node would have to be available for such a company, instead of a density-driven low-power one. And, as the design rules complexity increases, the cost of developing and updating such a GPU becomes ever-more onerous.
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meacupla - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
I know the new 500 series AMD boards have more in them, but I miss the days when $250 was considered high end.schujj07 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
With the 500 series motherboards AMD has moved into Intel territory for motherboard cost.Ninhalem - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
Probably due to the increase in copper to deal with PCIE Gen4 and the power requirements with the chipset.valinor89 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
Right now 1 Kg of copper costs almost 6$. There is no way this has enought more copper to actually make such difference in the BOM.meacupla - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
it's not just that, these X570 boards have good VRMs now, because they will have to potentially deal with a 16 core.Oxford Guy - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link
"The GIGABYTE X570 Aorus Pro benefits from a 14-phase power delivery"Doubt it.
Oxford Guy - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link
"The GIGABYTE X570 Aorus Pro benefits from a 14-phase power delivery"Doubt it.
Valantar - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
Also the cost of the (quite large) chipset, redrivers for PCIe, and the VRM. A lot of small cost increases all adding up to a noticeable increase, looks like.Nozuka - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
@Schujj07: until Intel adds PCIe 4.0 and the prices are likely even higher then...JoshHowl - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link
Maybe in pricing but its still a good deal overall as the components are intel server grade.Oxford Guy - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
"I miss the days when $250 was considered high end."The real pace of inflation is being hidden in plain sight.
fatweeb - Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - link
To be honest I would consider 14-phase power delivery to be high end.Someguyperson - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
I don't know how you can sell a motherboard at $250-$260 and have a single gigabit Ethernet port. Tons of X470 boards at $250 had something faster than gigabit.schujj07 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
For whom these are designed for gigabit is plenty fast. I've had high end boards with dual gigabit connectors and never had to use more than 1. I personally would love to have my house wired with 10G/baseT, granted for the distances inside a house you can use Cat5e, but the cost of a 10G/BaseT switch is so high most people won't buy it.beginner99 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
Exactly. Have dual ports now, only ever use one and the ports would actually allow teaming but for what? I'm not transferring large amounts of data between devices. Even streaming 4k movies 1gbit is enough.rocky12345 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
I never even noticed it only had 1 1Gbit LAN port installed. This makes it an even worse buy since I use both 1 Gbit ports on my current board for access to my multi tier network in my home. For this kind of price I would expect no less than 2 LAN ports and maybe even WIFI which I would not use of coarse.Skeptical123 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
I highly doubt the market share that wants two ethernet jacks is that large to start with. The amount of people like your self that have "multi tier networks in [their] home" is practically zero. For those that have such high-end setups, I think it's reasonable to assume they are used to using ethernet cards and don't mind doing so. If they don't want to use addon cards they can just buy a different board $50 is not going to make or break it for most of them.Chaitanya - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
I dont see enterprises using 10BaseT other than in their DC.RaV[666] - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
While i do understand that higher pcb quality required and a better vrm make a cost difference.The truth is, mainbaord prices inflated few years ago without real reason (unless you consider few led`s a "reason") .MB prices are just very high, no inflation or costs make up the diffrence that happened.
I bought Asus M5a97 evo 2.0 for around 100$. Pushed something around 350W for overclocking tests on it (5ghz flat from FX 8320) .It had good audio, dts connect.Nowadays 200$ at the very least.Did we have 200% inflation in 6 years ?
rocky12345 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
Welcome to the millennial age where most have no concept of what things should cost and all of those that are more than willing to pay insane prices just to be first on the block to have a shiny new product before anyone else does. Some will say well if those that pay the big prices can afford it then what's the problem. The problem is these big companies see this and adjust their product prices to match all of this which in turn screws over the common person trying to build a new system. All these companies are going to do is pretty much kill off PC gaming by having everything price inflated to the point it is not worth building a gaming PC any more and a lot of people will just switch over to console gaming. The consoles will look even more interesting in 2020 when the next gen ones come out and cost a quarter or less than a decent gaming PC does. I am not a console gamer myself I happen to like PC gaming but at at least I know the next gen consoles will be an option if I just want to spend a fair bit less and still get a decent gaming experience from them.Skeptical123 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
Your trolling right? If not Interesting. You are the first person I have seen trying to blame millennials for the future sales of next-gen consoles. What you talking about is a simple fact of a free market and has been happing in industries since money was created. If you think the high-end pc component world is expensive I can't imagine what you would think of the high-end car world trends. Or realy anything else. Also you do relize Millennials are current in 2019 22-37 so ie the generations doing most of the work....Destoya - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
Your M5A97 was one of the cheapest boards you could even put a FX processor in at $119. Kind of dishonest to call it "midrange" in my opinion. There were plenty of 990FX boards that launched around $250, and that price was pretty much capped because if you were going to spend that much money you might as well just have bought Intel for better performance.These X570 boards are the enthusiast chipset and are priced accordingly to what people are willing to spend for high-end boards. There's plenty of great X470/B450 boards around $150 or less that will handle an overclocked 12C Ryzen 3000 just fine. If you must have guaranteed PCIe gen4 there will be B550 boards coming soon to fill that gap too.
RaV[666] - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
Nope. The cheapest ones were like 2x cheaper. It was solid mid range.As you yourself explained it, because high end ones were like 200-250$.The 250$ 990FX boards were high end.
Now high end boards are 350-1000$ .But yea, ok , lets exclude the watercooled mobo.
Gigabyte master is 600$.
This is the same mechanism that apple puts every year.Of course they started earlier co they just arrived at a 1K for a monitor stand.You can ofcourse, call it an enthusiast stand that people are willing to pay for.Thats your right. I call it horseshit.
rocky12345 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
So the new mid range price is $250 USD yay for people in other parts of the world. So in Canada that becomes $334 and that's just with the exchange rate from US to CAD. Now we have to factor in the Greed factor and of coarse taxes. So about $399.99-$419.99 plus tax. I am not willing to pay $400 for a mid tier board that's stupid crazy. I was planning on getting a new Ryzen system this summer and going with a top end board and was expecting about $279.99-$319.99 as they have been in the past for the top end stuff I am not going to pay $600+ for a board that should not cost more than $349.99. These companies need to wake up and give their head a shake. I am hoping this is either wrong or just a Gigabyte thing and probably ASUS as well. Maybe ASRock will have more sane price. I had never considered them but if they have a decent board at a decent price they will be getting my money this time.In the past I have either gone with ASUS or Gigabyte and their top end stuff. I have noticed that lately ASUS have tag every product as ROG whether it is top end or mid range. It used to be only ASUS's top tier stuff such as boards got their ROG logo on it. I guess those days are over and even the random junk now gets the ROG stamp of approval as well.
rocky12345 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
I did a bit of a rant in another post about the prices of these new boards forgetting that these prices are for new products and as always they will most likely come down over a short time in the retail market once the retail outlets start to try to out sell their competition. So I guess if you are in the market for a new system the key here is the wait about 2-3 months and get a new board for a more sane price after the sticker prices go down a bit.I am going to be in the market for a new system but am fine with waiting for a few months to try to get a good deal on a new board and my other hardware. Then there will be Black Friday deals as well which could be a great time to pick up one of these new boards at 30% off on a Black Friday deal plus the already lowered sticker price.
RaV[666] - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
I also will wait until at least end of summer. I dont need new pc in the summer :).But i dont think they will get reasonably cheaper in that time.And most of the world doesnt really get black friday deals.I just hate overpaying, i paid 200$ for my current x99 mobo and already thought it was a rip off. But it was HEDT and has quad channel 10 satas so on.
but now it looks like its gonna be more like 300$ for a board that has much less.
WaWaThreeFIVbroS - Saturday, June 8, 2019 - link
Stop spamming the comments, and don't act like B550 boards will never existrocky12345 - Saturday, June 8, 2019 - link
If you are talking to me I am sorry but I will comment if I want to...enough said on that. As for the B550 boards thiose are not even listed yet as to when the release dates are. Besides that why should we have to resort to buying lower end stuff just because some of these companies are trying to drive up the prices to insane pricing and you get some uninformed people that have little to no clue what crap should be worth pay these higher prices without batting an eye. Not everyone or at least people with fully functioning brains are willing to pay extortion pricing type prices. Like I said in a past post about this I will just wait a few months and get the board I want at the price I deem as fair. It won't be a second string B550 series either it will be top tier x570 but at the price I am willing to pay I do not have to be the first on the block to have it so I will end up saving and still get what I want.Skeptical123 - Saturday, June 8, 2019 - link
Lol rocky12345 keep talking you realize you're still digging right? It sounds like you are just a kid who is salty your income/budget is not high enough to buy what you want on launch day. Have you ever heard something is worth what people are willing to pay for it? Also when you take into account the increased complexity on tolerances needed for newer motherboards and inflation motherboards price's have not changed that much the last two decades. You could argue there has been the creation of a new class of motherboards in the last 10 years. This new tier of high-end MBs catering to people who have the budget and who want the best regardless of practicality. Of which that aligns more with your rants in your comments. But that means your logic of comparing top tier X570 MB as equivalent to whatever top MB you could get 10 years is not valid.jrs77 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
What about the B-Series boards? Any word on them?I most definately won't spend more than a 100 bucks on a board to stick a $200 R5-3600 into.
rocky12345 - Saturday, June 8, 2019 - link
Even though I like to get a great deal even I think spending only $100 on a board is low. The mainboard is the back bone of th system and as such it shoyuld be one of the best built parts in the computer so the rest of the system will also work as it should. The next one would be POwer supply which supplies the juice to run everything. The power supply should be at least top tier and be 80+ rated at least gold. Just my opinion though.Oxford Guy - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
B450 boards that are well-rated, like the GPC, are up to $150. From what I've seen, if one cares at all about VRM one has two choices in B450: GPC and Tomahawk.Oxford Guy - Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - link
MSI, according to Buildzoid, is the only brand with B450 boards that have decent-quality FETs. However, I recently read about MSI swapping quality FETs for low-grade ones in a 2.0 revision of one of its boards so, as always in our unregulated tech world, caveat emptor.There is also the issue of RAM speed. One of the big selling points of these new Zens is faster RAM support. Who knows if the B450 boards will keep up with their ability, especially now that Samsung B die is no longer being produced.
It's a bad time to be a PC gaming enthusiast. We're getting tons of small cores instead of large powerful cores, small dies instead of dies closer to the reticle limit, smoke and mirrors like Tensor "AI" instead of real advances, slower RAM, higher prices — and all this after the mining pricing insanity stopped. Companies must feel that mining pricing proved they can set prices higher. Since duopoly and oligarchy reigns in the tech world there isn't much competition to save us.
It has been a bad time to be a PC gaming enthusiast for quite some time. The needs of enterprise are drifting further from the needs of the desktop gamer and the process nodes are becoming less of a gain. Not only are they tending to move toward high-density low-power designs instead of lower-density higher-performance designs, the number of design rules (cost to design) keeps increasing — so markets like enthusiast/gamer get leftover scraps. That's what Bulldozer/Piledriver was and that's what all this tiny cores stuff is. Even Radeon VII has a small die, although that's probably more a matter of naked margin-chasing, in conjunction with Apple's deal to use AMD or something.
Imagine if there would be a GPU company that produces a no-compromises GPU that is designed purely for gaming. Not designed for compute (beyond what developers can use for games). Not designed for AI that has no relevance. Not designed to scale from mobile through "high performance". This is something that could exist if there were more competition. A high-performance node would have to be available for such a company, instead of a density-driven low-power one. And, as the design rules complexity increases, the cost of developing and updating such a GPU becomes ever-more onerous.