"and now Arm as well as the partner licensees just need to execute properly for users to be able to enjoy the end-results.” This has been the biggest issue. Samsung gimps on GPU cores on all their soc's except their top tier. Same with Mediatek, where it had chance to use a higher core gpu in its P60/P70 but it didn't.
While Mali G77 looks very decent and competitive for the first time in a firm's history what's the use if ARM will lose 70% of the Mali GPU market share?
Correction in S2, Note2, Note4, S6/Note5, and even reading blows in s8 generation the Mali gpu was stronger though brute force or longevity. Not to mention that in almost every generation the CPU was better, overall efficiency was better, and audio was better. It's only been the last couple years that Qualcomm really stepped up the efficiency and audio game. And unfortunately Samsung decided to start flopping those as Qualcomm makes great strides
You must be joking. Get a grip on your self. The Scorpions ware somehow the letdown the regular A9 whose much better, the Krait made a established leader of Qualcomm all together the rest is a same o as it's based on little to no changed default core's. Adding an external (not on SoC) AMP/DAC has nothing with either of them. Seriously MALI whosent never even considered as worthy competitor to neither Adreno or Power VR in the past, Broadcomm VP whose at least competitive at first.
I see you get a hold on a grip on your self & self corrected your mumbling! So Homingbird used PowerVR SGX 540 not MALI 400. S6 Had a worst battery life ever.
I already stated that the exynos back then was named hummingbird and that it used power vr. Worst battery life??? Come back when you have anything useful, relevant, or even somewhat factual to contribute.
Actually s1 exynos formally known as hummingbird was power vr. However yes in s1, s2, and other generations despite the extreme denial of most were very competitive in gpu. Let alone cpu, efficiency, and audio.
I loved the Hummingbird, it was pretty powerful in the GPU side of things and I remember it crushing the benchmarks at the time. Maybe it's all fogged memories.
Andrei, are you still expecting HiSilicon to launch a Kirin SOC using ARM IP later this year with all that is happening ? It is very sad the current situation.
China not defending Huawei at any cost would mean that China accepts to be poor forever and their society is too evolved for that. They can't allow for any Chinese corporation that gains scale to be killed off by hateful idiots living in the past. There is a lot of hysteria but Huawei will be fine even if China has to crash the global economy to protect them.
Huawei got caught with their hand in the Chinese state-sponsored backdoor cookie jar. That was ultimately their undoing. There's tons of big Chinese corporations, even if Huawei collapses they will just be absorbed into other companies.
& those are? Who cought them? Germany for instance didn't but they caught US one the Cisco. Their is a ton of huge US corporations in China and state property low.
I really hope they release a Mali-G32 replacement for the G31 with this new architecture, a smaller die with lower power consumption and better performance would be great for entry level phones.
And come to think of it, The other Mali gpu was fab on 8nm. so given that 7nm euv is supposedly 50% more efficient, we should be looking at a staggering performance improvement that's way above Arm's 40% target
Spelling and grammar corrections (Hint: have someone read what you're writing so that you don't make so many dumb mistakes).
"Valhall and the new Mali-G77 follow up on the last three generation of Mali GPUs with some significant improvements in performance,..." Missing s: "Valhall and the new Mali-G77 follow up on the last three generations of Mali GPUs with some significant improvements in performance,..."
"...the new ISA is said to be more compiler friendly and adapted and designed to better aligned with modern APIs such as Vulkan." Missing "be": "...the new ISA is said to be more compiler friendly and adapted and designed to be better aligned with modern APIs such as Vulkan."
"Dwelling deeper into the structure of the execution engine,..." Very awkward, try delving: "Delving deeper into the structure of the execution engine,..."
"One single has more instances on the primary datapath, and less instances of the control and I-cache,..." Single what, engine? Maybe "EE"? "One single EE has more instances on the primary datapath, and less instances of the control and I-cache,..."
"On the hit-path, the texture cache itself has been improved and is now 32KB and is able of 16 texels/cycle throughput." Missing words, maybe: "On the hit-path, the texture cache itself has been improved and is now 32KB and is able to process 16 texels/cycle throughput."
"Arm states that fundamentally frequency between the G76 and G77 shouldn't change much at all, an internally Arm still targets an 850MHz sign-off." "and" not "an" "Arm states that fundamentally frequency between the G76 and G77 shouldn't change much at all, and internally Arm still targets an 850MHz sign-off."
Not to say we should excuse journalists for less than stellar writing, but having read his stuff for a long time, with Andrei you have to accept the good (technical expertise) with the "could use improvement" (writing/word choice). There's no one out there that offers the kind of analysis and insights Andrei does, so as a reader I continue to read his articles with great interest and don't let the typos and writing bother me.
I don't mind the typos and wording issues and grammar issues ... if this was a blog where the content was written and posted directly by the author.
What really bugs me is that Anandtech (and Ars, and other news sites) supposedly have editors on staff, yet these issues still slip through. :( There was a time when articles would pass through two or three stages of proofing to make sure these kinds of things didn't make it to press. But, it seems even for-pay "newspapers" these days are lacking in the QA/proofing department, so there's not much we can expect from for-free news sites. :(
As mentioned in my post on Andrei's A77 article, I believe that at least some of these efforts are also to help establish ARM's designs as believable competition in the ultraportable space. With the graphics, that won't apply to Qualcomm, but is vital for Huawei and Samsung, as they rely on ARM-designed GPUs. A hexa- or octacore A77 with 12 or 16 of these might just be able to go head-to-head with Intel's low power chips.
Currently the big issue with Mali and ultra-portable is the fact that Arm has no plans for Windows drivers. Thus aside from ChromeOS devices, they're not really targeting that form-factor as much on the GPU as they are on the CPU (because Qualcomm uses the CPU).
Andrei, that's an important point. Also shows that MS is not as full-throated in its Windows-on-ARM as they let on. While I believe that some of the existing graphics support in Windows for QC's Adreno House is due to QC doing a lot of the heavy lifting, I don't believe that ARM would say no to a collaborative effort with MS to get MALI supported in Windows.
Arm is open to Windows drivers but their official stance right now is to have Qualcomm take the lead. Demand is mostly based on the other chip-makers going into that market (HiSilicon, Samsung).
.. except that Intel's low power chips actually are that bad in graphics processing that they get easily trounced even by current gen phone GPU's, including the Mali ones. Get some clue
And their latest in laptop chips... Well at least up to most 8th gen I think... Barely had any power or efficiency gains even over the 4000 series. Like i7 4800. In fact had more power than even most 7000 series ones. Well better bench scores.
They really need to push on the GPU side as foldables somewhat double pixel count and in theory, double fold or rollable can go even further. Larger screens do make mobile gaming more appealing so it's good for everybody.
Exynos 9830 should incorporate Mali G77 MP18, which theoretically trump Adreno 640 by, say, 30%-40% in performance and 20%-40% in efficiency. Likewise, Kirin 990 must incorporate Mali G77 MP14 (at least) which should also be competitive enough with Adreno 650 (next generation Snapdragon GPU)
That will also depends on their insane profit greed and how lazy they are with their next generation of custom CPU cores. I understand there will be issues since they ventured into wide designs but so many things could have been implemented way better. And with those cores being so power hungry and large they have to account for that with heat/power envelope when consider how much gpu
It could be released on current upcoming devices so yeah. And it will still have a good chance of staying competitive with the next adreno. You really are a special kind of fanboy aren't you...
Because it's so much more powerful and efficient on top of Samsung's current custom CPU core issues they might not go for mp18. Though their 7nm Euv process and a better M4 custom core setup might change that.
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patel21 - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
"and now Arm as well as the partner licensees just need to execute properly for users to be able to enjoy the end-results.”This has been the biggest issue. Samsung gimps on GPU cores on all their soc's except their top tier.
Same with Mediatek, where it had chance to use a higher core gpu in its P60/P70 but it didn't.
eastcoast_pete - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
Yes, those 2 core GPUs didn't exactly help the image of MALI architecture.Lolimaster - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link
Specially on things like the horrible Galaxy A8 with a pathetic mp2ZolaIII - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
While Mali G77 looks very decent and competitive for the first time in a firm's history what's the use if ARM will lose 70% of the Mali GPU market share?darkich - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
That, and the fact that Samsung is in the process of developing their own, supposedly revolutionary GPU architecture.Correction though..Mali was more than competitive back in the Galaxy S1/S2 days
ZolaIII - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link
Correction MALI whose never ever competitive before, it laged far behind Imagion (ATI - later QC Adreno).jackthepumpkinking6sic6 - Thursday, May 30, 2019 - link
Correction in S2, Note2, Note4, S6/Note5, and even reading blows in s8 generation the Mali gpu was stronger though brute force or longevity.Not to mention that in almost every generation the CPU was better, overall efficiency was better, and audio was better.
It's only been the last couple years that Qualcomm really stepped up the efficiency and audio game. And unfortunately Samsung decided to start flopping those as Qualcomm makes great strides
ZolaIII - Thursday, May 30, 2019 - link
You must be joking. Get a grip on your self. The Scorpions ware somehow the letdown the regular A9 whose much better, the Krait made a established leader of Qualcomm all together the rest is a same o as it's based on little to no changed default core's. Adding an external (not on SoC) AMP/DAC has nothing with either of them. Seriously MALI whosent never even considered as worthy competitor to neither Adreno or Power VR in the past, Broadcomm VP whose at least competitive at first.jackthepumpkinking6sic6 - Thursday, May 30, 2019 - link
You're clearly the only one that needs to get a grip. You didn't even counter what I said.Troll again? Of course you will
ZolaIII - Friday, May 31, 2019 - link
I see you get a hold on a grip on your self & self corrected your mumbling! So Homingbird used PowerVR SGX 540 not MALI 400. S6 Had a worst battery life ever.jackthepumpkinking6sic6 - Friday, May 31, 2019 - link
I already stated that the exynos back then was named hummingbird and that it used power vr.Worst battery life???
Come back when you have anything useful, relevant, or even somewhat factual to contribute.
jackthepumpkinking6sic6 - Thursday, May 30, 2019 - link
Some of this may have been some based on implementation but that's half the battlejackthepumpkinking6sic6 - Thursday, May 30, 2019 - link
Actually s1 exynos formally known as hummingbird was power vr.However yes in s1, s2, and other generations despite the extreme denial of most were very competitive in gpu. Let alone cpu, efficiency, and audio.
GlossGhost - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
I loved the Hummingbird, it was pretty powerful in the GPU side of things and I remember it crushing the benchmarks at the time. Maybe it's all fogged memories.Lodix - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
Andrei, are you still expecting HiSilicon to launch a Kirin SOC using ARM IP later this year with all that is happening ? It is very sad the current situation.Andrei Frumusanu - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
The SoC certainly is ready to go to manufacturing. What happens with devices is another question.jjj - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
China not defending Huawei at any cost would mean that China accepts to be poor forever and their society is too evolved for that. They can't allow for any Chinese corporation that gains scale to be killed off by hateful idiots living in the past.There is a lot of hysteria but Huawei will be fine even if China has to crash the global economy to protect them.
Alexvrb - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
Huawei got caught with their hand in the Chinese state-sponsored backdoor cookie jar. That was ultimately their undoing. There's tons of big Chinese corporations, even if Huawei collapses they will just be absorbed into other companies.ZolaIII - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link
& those are? Who cought them? Germany for instance didn't but they caught US one the Cisco. Their is a ton of huge US corporations in China and state property low.costeakai - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
good question , at least for these days.darkich - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
40% more performance just from design improvements?That's ridiculous, if true..
spaceship9876 - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
I really hope they release a Mali-G32 replacement for the G31 with this new architecture, a smaller die with lower power consumption and better performance would be great for entry level phones.KECHEES - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link
And come to think of it, The other Mali gpu was fab on 8nm. so given that 7nm euv is supposedly 50% more efficient, we should be looking at a staggering performance improvement that's way above Arm's 40% targetballsystemlord - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
Spelling and grammar corrections (Hint: have someone read what you're writing so that you don't make so many dumb mistakes)."Valhall and the new Mali-G77 follow up on the last three generation of Mali GPUs with some significant improvements in performance,..."
Missing s:
"Valhall and the new Mali-G77 follow up on the last three generations of Mali GPUs with some significant improvements in performance,..."
"...the new ISA is said to be more compiler friendly and adapted and designed to better aligned with modern APIs such as Vulkan."
Missing "be":
"...the new ISA is said to be more compiler friendly and adapted and designed to be better aligned with modern APIs such as Vulkan."
"Dwelling deeper into the structure of the execution engine,..."
Very awkward, try delving:
"Delving deeper into the structure of the execution engine,..."
"One single has more instances on the primary datapath, and less instances of the control and I-cache,..."
Single what, engine? Maybe "EE"?
"One single EE has more instances on the primary datapath, and less instances of the control and I-cache,..."
"On the hit-path, the texture cache itself has been improved and is now 32KB and is able of 16 texels/cycle throughput."
Missing words, maybe:
"On the hit-path, the texture cache itself has been improved and is now 32KB and is able to process 16 texels/cycle throughput."
"Arm states that fundamentally frequency between the G76 and G77 shouldn't change much at all, an internally Arm still targets an 850MHz sign-off."
"and" not "an"
"Arm states that fundamentally frequency between the G76 and G77 shouldn't change much at all, and internally Arm still targets an 850MHz sign-off."
warreo - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
Not to say we should excuse journalists for less than stellar writing, but having read his stuff for a long time, with Andrei you have to accept the good (technical expertise) with the "could use improvement" (writing/word choice). There's no one out there that offers the kind of analysis and insights Andrei does, so as a reader I continue to read his articles with great interest and don't let the typos and writing bother me.phoenix_rizzen - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link
I don't mind the typos and wording issues and grammar issues ... if this was a blog where the content was written and posted directly by the author.What really bugs me is that Anandtech (and Ars, and other news sites) supposedly have editors on staff, yet these issues still slip through. :( There was a time when articles would pass through two or three stages of proofing to make sure these kinds of things didn't make it to press. But, it seems even for-pay "newspapers" these days are lacking in the QA/proofing department, so there's not much we can expect from for-free news sites. :(
Andrei Frumusanu - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link
Thanks for the corrections.eastcoast_pete - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
As mentioned in my post on Andrei's A77 article, I believe that at least some of these efforts are also to help establish ARM's designs as believable competition in the ultraportable space. With the graphics, that won't apply to Qualcomm, but is vital for Huawei and Samsung, as they rely on ARM-designed GPUs. A hexa- or octacore A77 with 12 or 16 of these might just be able to go head-to-head with Intel's low power chips.Andrei Frumusanu - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link
Currently the big issue with Mali and ultra-portable is the fact that Arm has no plans for Windows drivers. Thus aside from ChromeOS devices, they're not really targeting that form-factor as much on the GPU as they are on the CPU (because Qualcomm uses the CPU).eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link
Andrei, that's an important point. Also shows that MS is not as full-throated in its Windows-on-ARM as they let on. While I believe that some of the existing graphics support in Windows for QC's Adreno House is due to QC doing a lot of the heavy lifting, I don't believe that ARM would say no to a collaborative effort with MS to get MALI supported in Windows.eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - link
Addition: Unless MS did reach out to ARM and ARM said no. If that's the case, that would be worth an article or two!Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, May 31, 2019 - link
Arm is open to Windows drivers but their official stance right now is to have Qualcomm take the lead. Demand is mostly based on the other chip-makers going into that market (HiSilicon, Samsung).darkich - Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - link
.. except that Intel's low power chips actually are that bad in graphics processing that they get easily trounced even by current gen phone GPU's, including the Mali ones. Get some cluejackthepumpkinking6sic6 - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
And their latest in laptop chips... Well at least up to most 8th gen I think... Barely had any power or efficiency gains even over the 4000 series. Like i7 4800. In fact had more power than even most 7000 series ones. Well better bench scores.jjj - Monday, May 27, 2019 - link
They really need to push on the GPU side as foldables somewhat double pixel count and in theory, double fold or rollable can go even further. Larger screens do make mobile gaming more appealing so it's good for everybody.PeeCee - Thursday, May 30, 2019 - link
Exynos 9830 should incorporate Mali G77 MP18, which theoretically trump Adreno 640 by, say, 30%-40% in performance and 20%-40% in efficiency. Likewise, Kirin 990 must incorporate Mali G77 MP14 (at least) which should also be competitive enough with Adreno 650 (next generation Snapdragon GPU)jackthepumpkinking6sic6 - Thursday, May 30, 2019 - link
That will also depends on their insane profit greed and how lazy they are with their next generation of custom CPU cores. I understand there will be issues since they ventured into wide designs but so many things could have been implemented way better. And with those cores being so power hungry and large they have to account for that with heat/power envelope when consider how much gpuZolaIII - Sunday, June 2, 2019 - link
Next year its time for new generation (seventh) of Adrenos (by QC usual schedule). The G77 is only competitive to current.jackthepumpkinking6sic6 - Sunday, June 2, 2019 - link
It could be released on current upcoming devices so yeah.And it will still have a good chance of staying competitive with the next adreno.
You really are a special kind of fanboy aren't you...
jackthepumpkinking6sic6 - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Because it's so much more powerful and efficient on top of Samsung's current custom CPU core issues they might not go for mp18. Though their 7nm Euv process and a better M4 custom core setup might change that.benazer - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link
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benazer - Monday, June 10, 2019 - link
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