So did Intel quitting the 5G market put more force on Apple to settle or did Apple settling put the final nail in the Intel 5G coffin? Which lead to the other given both these announcements were likely days in the making.
That's a good question, but I think it's pretty likely that the ouster of Krazanich may have set this into motion. Modems were a money losing operation for Intel supported by contra-revenues which sucked up valuable foundry space that could be used for higher margin CPUs.
Doing business with Apple as a third party seems to be more and more of a losing proposition of late: Intel both lost money per modem and had huge opportunity cost in the CPUs it didn't make; Qualcomm was suddenly starved of contractually obligated licensing revenue and nearly taken under and carved into pieces in a hostile bid by Broadcom; Apple cancelled its order w/ Dialog w/o having another supplier lined up, watched their stock tank, and bought up valuable IP for pennies on the dollar; they ought-right stole Imagination IP when they switched to an in-house GPU; GTAT was bankrupted by a mismanaged (by Apple) attempt to make sapphire for iPhone 6. It takes a big warchest like Qualcomm's and balls of steel to deal with Apple as a counterparty as it will try its hardest to squash you after a few quarters of business.
it's a business that makes sense to be in when you've got very underutilized fabs, but Intel can currently sell every processor chip they fab at good margins - they don't want extremely low margin apple modems eating capacity that could be pumping high margin Xeons or middle margin consumer products.
The keyword is "currently". Next recession will come, companies will stop their PC/server replacement, just by the time Intel finally figures out 10nm, competitors will be on 7nm (or even TSMC 6nm) by that time, and suddenly Intel will find itself with a lot of spare capacity and without any alternative way to utilize it. And capacity is essentially fixed cost - you pay for the fabs (capital costs and most running costs) whether or not you utilize them.
And it might happen LITERALLY in the matter of months now.
Why couldn't intel integrate its modems into its CPU's, just as Qualcomm does. They can start by releasing just some CPU's with modems for ultra portables. I think there is a big market for such devices.
Because Intel's 5G modem doesn't exist. They have never shown any piece of working silicon, and have been blasted on other sites for photoshopped images of their modems. Plus Qualcomm integrates modems onto SoCs, NOT CPUs. On larger devices the SoC is basically the motherboard and CPU.
does anyone have a link to a piece that delineates, not to EE depth of course, how a current LTE modem can be upgraded to '5G low frequency', i.e. not mmWave? since mmWave will never be seen outside of a few cities, no matter what FCC says. you can fool Mother Nature, aka the laws of physics.
the market for True 5G is likely too small for anyone to undertake the effort.
Either they buried the hatchet or agreed that it's better for both of them to do a hatchet job on a third party, let's say one that starts with an "I", and ends on "ntel".
I refuse on principal to ever buy an Apple device because the company has been the leading proponent of planned obsolescence that converted much of the tech industry to sealed cases, non-removable batteries, soldered components on motherboards and locked down operating systems that deny user freedom. While many companies have adopted Apple's bad practices, Apple adds a special layer of nastiness with its proprietary connectors, proprietary screws, voiding warranties for changing the ring tone, banning users from their forums who talk about third party repair and data recovery, and telling US customs to seize replacement parts at the border because they are refurbished parts with an Apple logo.
Nonetheless, I was rooting for Apple in this fight, because at least they were helping to break Qualcomm's stranglehold over cellular modems and mobile SoCs. Unfortunately, the two companies have now called off their war on each other, so they can go back to screwing their customers and the rest of the tech companies. I say a pox on both companies.
I have grown so disgusted with the way that tech companies like Apple and Qualcomm operate, that I decided to fight back by preordered the Purism Librem 5. I'm sick of giving my money to tech companies whose business models are based on unethical principals. Hopefully others will come to similar conclusions and support tech companies like Purism, System76, Redpine Signal, Pine64, Arduino LLC, ZaReason, Sutajio Kosagi, Adacore, SiFive, etc. that are based on respecting user freedom and ethical business practices.
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Teckk - Tuesday, April 16, 2019 - link
Both public companies, aren't they supposed to reveal more details of the agreement, especially the one time payment?nicmonson - Tuesday, April 16, 2019 - link
So did Intel quitting the 5G market put more force on Apple to settle or did Apple settling put the final nail in the Intel 5G coffin? Which lead to the other given both these announcements were likely days in the making.nicmonson - Tuesday, April 16, 2019 - link
Ah, dang. Did not mean to reply to Techkk. Also "would take the agreement through April of 2017" should be changed to 2027 I assume.Raqia - Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - link
That's a good question, but I think it's pretty likely that the ouster of Krazanich may have set this into motion. Modems were a money losing operation for Intel supported by contra-revenues which sucked up valuable foundry space that could be used for higher margin CPUs.Doing business with Apple as a third party seems to be more and more of a losing proposition of late: Intel both lost money per modem and had huge opportunity cost in the CPUs it didn't make; Qualcomm was suddenly starved of contractually obligated licensing revenue and nearly taken under and carved into pieces in a hostile bid by Broadcom; Apple cancelled its order w/ Dialog w/o having another supplier lined up, watched their stock tank, and bought up valuable IP for pennies on the dollar; they ought-right stole Imagination IP when they switched to an in-house GPU; GTAT was bankrupted by a mismanaged (by Apple) attempt to make sapphire for iPhone 6. It takes a big warchest like Qualcomm's and balls of steel to deal with Apple as a counterparty as it will try its hardest to squash you after a few quarters of business.
blu42 - Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - link
> So did Intel quitting the 5G market put more force on Apple to settle or did Apple settling put the final nail in the Intel 5G coffin?The latter. The one thing that kept Intel modems afloat was the Apple/QCOM feud.
drexnx - Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - link
it's a business that makes sense to be in when you've got very underutilized fabs, but Intel can currently sell every processor chip they fab at good margins - they don't want extremely low margin apple modems eating capacity that could be pumping high margin Xeons or middle margin consumer products.peevee - Friday, April 19, 2019 - link
The keyword is "currently". Next recession will come, companies will stop their PC/server replacement, just by the time Intel finally figures out 10nm, competitors will be on 7nm (or even TSMC 6nm) by that time, and suddenly Intel will find itself with a lot of spare capacity and without any alternative way to utilize it. And capacity is essentially fixed cost - you pay for the fabs (capital costs and most running costs) whether or not you utilize them.And it might happen LITERALLY in the matter of months now.
GreenReaper - Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - link
Maybe they will - but in their quarterly filings? Or a conference call for investors.patel21 - Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - link
Why couldn't intel integrate its modems into its CPU's, just as Qualcomm does.They can start by releasing just some CPU's with modems for ultra portables. I think there is a big market for such devices.
shadowx360 - Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - link
Because Intel's 5G modem doesn't exist. They have never shown any piece of working silicon, and have been blasted on other sites for photoshopped images of their modems. Plus Qualcomm integrates modems onto SoCs, NOT CPUs. On larger devices the SoC is basically the motherboard and CPU.FunBunny2 - Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - link
does anyone have a link to a piece that delineates, not to EE depth of course, how a current LTE modem can be upgraded to '5G low frequency', i.e. not mmWave? since mmWave will never be seen outside of a few cities, no matter what FCC says. you can fool Mother Nature, aka the laws of physics.the market for True 5G is likely too small for anyone to undertake the effort.
FunBunny2 - Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - link
oops. can'teastcoast_pete - Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - link
Either they buried the hatchet or agreed that it's better for both of them to do a hatchet job on a third party, let's say one that starts with an "I", and ends on "ntel".amosbatto - Friday, April 19, 2019 - link
I refuse on principal to ever buy an Apple device because the company has been the leading proponent of planned obsolescence that converted much of the tech industry to sealed cases, non-removable batteries, soldered components on motherboards and locked down operating systems that deny user freedom. While many companies have adopted Apple's bad practices, Apple adds a special layer of nastiness with its proprietary connectors, proprietary screws, voiding warranties for changing the ring tone, banning users from their forums who talk about third party repair and data recovery, and telling US customs to seize replacement parts at the border because they are refurbished parts with an Apple logo.Nonetheless, I was rooting for Apple in this fight, because at least they were helping to break Qualcomm's stranglehold over cellular modems and mobile SoCs. Unfortunately, the two companies have now called off their war on each other, so they can go back to screwing their customers and the rest of the tech companies. I say a pox on both companies.
I have grown so disgusted with the way that tech companies like Apple and Qualcomm operate, that I decided to fight back by preordered the Purism Librem 5. I'm sick of giving my money to tech companies whose business models are based on unethical principals. Hopefully others will come to similar conclusions and support tech companies like Purism, System76, Redpine Signal, Pine64, Arduino LLC, ZaReason, Sutajio Kosagi, Adacore, SiFive, etc. that are based on respecting user freedom and ethical business practices.