1. Firmware upgrades locked you out if you used Bitlocker (as in no rescue key, bye bye everything). At least it now warns you to suspend Bitlocker, but if lenovo can manage these upgrades seamlessly, why can't Intel? 2. Thunderbolt implementation - seems incomplete as it won't play nice with a lenovo TB3 dock (multiple other machines do) and can't be powered from it (an edge case, I know) 3. DP/HDMI implementation. Won't sleep my screen correctly so the keep coming on every few minutes. Have to turn them off at the switch.
Other than that, it does the job but will be waiting a few generations before I upgrade (or will get a Zotac Zen box instead...)
Intel has a download center for drivers and whatnot. You can find it by doing an internet search for Intel Download Center or by just going to downloadcenter dot intel dot com (I'm not sure what the policies are here for posting URLs).
The simplest way to get all the driver and BIOS updates is likely to run their latest generation update detection tool by clicking "Get started" next to where it says "Automatically update your drivers". This should be visible on the main landing page for the Downloadcenter.
If you want to do the updates manually, or you feel like the Automatic detection tool missed something you can download and apply the updates manually. To do this you'll need your NUC's model number. For example, I have a 7th Gen i5 NUC, so my model number is: NUC7i5BNH.
dontlistentome is talking about a system where the drive has been encrypted with bitlocker. The NUC is no different than any other system in this regard.
The only thing that hinders me from jumping onto one of these... Is the Intel Decelerator Graphics. AMD needs to apply some much needed competition in the NUC space I think!
Zotac is dead to me after teasing the MA551 (the only potential ryzen competitor to the NUC) for over a year and then canceling it. I’m not aware of any Zotac competitors at this level that have a modern AMD APU.
I was on the verge of buying one of these NUCs but at the last moment the Asrock A300W came out, which is a much better deal. Far better graphics and cheaper.
Yes, I kept waiting for that also. I didn't realize they formally cancelled it, I just never heard anything and when I searched periodically I just found other people wondering the same thing.
They get the Hades Canyon NUC with the Vega M GH? You get a fast Intel CPU and a noticeable bump in GPU performance. Granted, you're also doubling the power usage.
I have tried this monitor on both the Type-C port as well as the HDMI port and both seem to be able to drive the panel at the 5120x1440@60hz resolution just fine. I will have a second panel on thursday to see if it can drive both at the same time fine.
Glad it can drive at least one 512x1440@60 panel. I'm keen to hear if it can drive two simultaneously! That would be one awesome minimal desktop system. :-)
I for one think it's incredible that the 8559U with a 28W TDP and a GT3 Gen9 is getting practically the same or higher performance than the 6770HQ with a 45W TDP and a GT4 Gen9, considering they're both made on different variations of what's essentially the same node.
Yeah, its nice to see the TDP for performance do that sort of thing so clearly. It's also nice that you can now purchase Skull Canyon equivalent power without being forced to have the Skull Canyon name. I was always put off by the whole death and bones branding. It's too visceral and ugly in a world that has enough real life death in it. Bean Canyon sounds a lot better.
I have a Skull Canyon that I picked up on 25% sale from newegg 2 years ago and its been a solid SFF machine, Intel packages an extra normal (non-skull) lid if you rather use that one. There is a dedicated intel support page for the machine with all drivers and firmware. I have mine mounted behind my monitor for a very clean AIO look with a wireless mouse n keyboard.
It's not just the morbid case cover that bothers me. The fact is that the brand name in general is something that discourages my interest in an otherwise solid computing device. I don't need death or bones or corpse-like branding on my computer parts. That kind of thing has a way of crawling into your head and sticking around in there. It may seem trivial, but to someone that has had to see and deal with real world violence, it just isn't something I want associated with something I use for work and play at home.
What I want to know is this: where are all these canyons? Time was, codenames were based on actual locations, but nowadays I'm not sure. There's nothing on Google Maps...
I'm not at all disagreeing with your point -- Intel has made pretty substantial gains in efficiency -- but we should all just remember that the CPUs in both systems are probably blowing WAY past their TDP (non-turbo) ratings to achieve the performance we're seeing in these benchmarks.
I kept not finding the Power Consumption figures in the article. Under a full CPU + GPU load it looks like Bean Canyon is pulling ~72W at the wall and Skull Canyon is pulling ~77W at the wall.
Still impressive since Bean Canyon tends to be a bit faster and has a smaller GPU configuration.
Skull Canyon just sucks. It should be performing 30-50% faster than this one. No wonder nothing outside of a single Intel NUC used it. The previous two Iris Pros sucked too. Each generation made it worse.
"Perhaps an additional Thunderbolt 3 controller directly attached to the CPU's PCIe lanes could make the platform look even more attractive."
This is a 14nm U-Series Part, there are no CPU PCIe lanes on it. Maybe complain about the U-Series parts not having pcie on the cpu package rather than about the NUC not having a feature that is impossible to support.
I'm pretty sure all 14nm U-series processors feature at least 8 PCIe 3.0 lanes, some even more (the i5-7200U has got 12 of those and the i7-8559U 16. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I wondered this also. The board layout diagram has a "CIR Receiver" so maybe that's it. But I'm really surprised there is no mention in the system specs table next to I/O or in any of the HTPC pages of the article. Wasn't it one of the good selling points of these Intel boxes?
Shame that this is lacking a full displayport output, instead making it an old DP1.2 share a thunderbolt output. Displayport is more important than hdmi for a machine that is overkill for HTPC use. i7s will be much more often connected to monitors than to TVs.
For the Intel NUC8i7BEH (Bean Canyon), in the Comparative PC Configurations, does the listed price "$963 (as configured)" include an OS or not? The other selections (other than the NUC7i7BNH) explicitly said "as configured, No OS". You specifically marked it as "as configured, no OS" in the specifications on the first page.
The price is a bit high, but I'm guessing some of that is due to the Iris GPU which is a thing I'd love to see appear in a wider variety of systems. Iris is a good idea from a power consumption and cooling simplification standpoint when compared to most dGPU offerings on the lower end of the scale.
This CPU IMHO is one of the best designs Intel has and I’ve been itching to buy one of these for quite some time, albeit always in a slightly different form factor.
For starters just enter i7-8559U into your Google search bar and hit “shopping”. You’ll notice, there are exactly two offerings: The NUC for around €500 and the MacBooks between €2000 and €3500. Perhaps the latter costs extra, because it includes one Terabyte of SSD, €120 these days in a market with competition. It certainly has just the same CPU/GPU as the €2000 model.
I own the Skylake predecessor, also designed for Apple, an i5-6267U but in a cheap Windows notebook, which has an Iris 550 iGPU with close to identical graphics performance, but only half the number of cores that top out at 3.3 GHz, but doesn’t drop below 2.9 GHz even if abused by Prime95.
It’s a sweet machine, giving nicely balanced CPU and graphics power and most importantly, it had zero price premium at the time, for twice the graphics punch of ordinary 520 or 530 iGPUs. It also performs very much identical to a 512 graphics core Kaveri A10-7850K in *every regard*, CPU INT and FP, GPU, OpenCL, only that the Kaveri uses 95 Watts not 28. It was quite simply the better APU and stopped me buying AMDs since.
It also has such great Linux compatibility CentOS, Fedora, Ubuntu and Android-x86, none of the grief Nvidia and AMD give you: I know how to manage that with all those V100, GTX and RTX I operate, but I also appreciate not having to.
Alas, you cannot buy this newer CPU inside a notebook other than at crazy Apple prices. And incidentally, you cannot buy it as a Mini-ITX either: You’re stuck with NUC or nothing… which is sort of ok, now that you stuff terabytes of NVMe at affordable prices inside.
This chip must be quite a bit more expensive to make, twice the GPU silicon real-estate, eDRAM, packaging etc., but Intel doesn’t charge extra for GPU, no matter what type, just for peak clock speed.
But it seems they also simply won’t sell the chip, not for the official price or any other, unless you’re Apple or buy a NUC. I still don’t know how Medion managed to grab sufficient number of them to produce a €600 laptop, but I knew enough to grab one, enjoyed it ever since and I am writing on it just now.
So if I cannot have another as a notebook, I’d love to use it as a mini-server: That’s another use case where the fantastic power efficiency at low loads or idle, combined with its pretty awesome sprint power is well appreciated. But I’d really like it to have ECC memory then and a slightly bigger fan for quiet operation even under load, because it will run “forever” and use consistency critical stuff, including ZFS for Linux.
But because that makes it the nicer Xeon-D for many, Intel will cut that fuse…
For Intel this NUC must be one of the lowest profit items in their inventory, which translates to one of the best value propositions if you can live with the limitations. In theory you should be able to buy the board without the case and there is at least one company out there that sells fan-less cases to fit the guts of this NUC.
Even if that case costs a €200 premium, you can still buy two fully loaded passive NUCs with 32GB of RAM and 4TB of SSD before you reach Apple entry territory.
"With Thunderbolt 3 having matured, and the availability of various eGFX enclosures, the absence of a discrete GPU in the NUC8i7BEH will hardly be felt."
completely disagree. Relying on huge, bulky, and costly external implementations is a horrible idea compared to paying a small premium and getting better GPU inside the NUC. Who in the world would buy a mini PC knowing they're going to frequently need to plug it into a huge box multiple times the size of the NUC and driving the total cost to a whole new bracket? There's a reason why the eGFX market is a tiny, niche market.
These are not priced as budget PC solutions, so the small price bump to get better graphics inside the box is completely worth it for users who want that type of performance. Or for others who will use it strictly for media and productivity the can stick with Intel Graphics. Almost no one should buy the base Intel Graphics with the idea of adding an eGFX solution later. They'd be better off selling the base one and buying a Ryzen or Vega M-Intel solution.
Yeah, I made the mistake of going for an IGP + eGPU setup this time around (X1 Carbon + Lenovo GTX1050 dock). Nevermind the TB3 power issues that Lenovo finally fixed (silently), or GPU driver issues, just the need to lug around another box and its own power brick negates any weight savings over a heavier laptop with even a weak dGPU.
This is a mistake I will never, ever make again. The eGPU idea really only works for Mac users, who are "forced" to buy from a range of 4 laptops (5, if you count three year old laptops being sold at full price), of which only one has a dGPU. Another has a passable IGP, that is still weaker than the worse of the current dGPUs (unless if one counts the Lenovo E480's severely throttled RX540). If you are a mac user and intend on staying one, choices are very limited, making eGPUs a necessity for those wanting more power. For anyone else out there, such sacrifices are not necessary.
Honestly, the eGPU thing only makes sense to me in one scenario: with a laptop that has an anemic GPU inside (low end AMD/Intel or just integrated) that has great battery life on the go but the owner wants to play some games at home on a larger monitor with good image quality and not have the hassle to maintain two independant systems. So the eGPU enclosure stays in one place, the laptop gets lugged around, is light, long lasting and productive on the go and when you get home, one cable to make it into a decent gaming PC. eGPU on already stationary desktops is just weird (get a slightly bigger case and stick a GPU inside that, more options, probably cheaper as well) and people who lug around the eGPU enclosure and their laptop are also kinda missing the point. If you do that, why not just get a 1060 or 1080 laptop and be done with it? The prices of the whole GPU+enclosure should not be much cheaper than the built in versions and the performance delta is probably negligible compared to the increased ease of use.
Not sure if I understand these things. ITX is already like 7x7 inches, and supports up to 9900k. Especially with undervolted chips you're looking at under 150 watts.
I just hope they all come with TPM modules now. The few physical machines we have are Intel NUCs, and in the first batch we bought they didn't have them and I was speechless... I mean, even dirt cheap $300 laptops come with TPMs these days!?! how could a $4-500 machine NOT have it? Then when ordering the next round of devices we found that most of the units available through our vendors did not have them; had to do a special order! This should be a standard feature, not something we have to search out any longer!
That's with a 1TB NVME SSD and 32GB RAM. Look at the base model and configure your own options and see how much it costs then (still not cheap, probably, but not as bad). And compare it to a laptop of similar specs (28W quad core with thunderbolt and eDRAM).
Yeah it said $503 barebones (need to add memory and storage). I guess you must have to really like that CPU and the case to make that competitive. When I say that, I mean it might be losing the HTPC crowd.
Ganesh, thanks for including the HTPC-relevant tests and benchmarks in the review. Many (most?) NUCs end up serving as HTPCs, and that information is key for selecting the right one.
I wish someone made one with 3 HDMI outputs and high quality analog audio (Note after 2015 even so so quality analog audio is hard to find in these, have to tie up a USB port for external audio). Only need a Core i3 and 8GB of RAM and 256GB SSD would be fine.
Did the 3000 mhz ram work just like that?? I have the Intel NUC8i7BEH and i first bought 16gb Ballistix Sport DDR4 @ 2666 and there was no way to boot the system...... had to switch to 2400mhz ram..... Talked to an Intel support and they told me that having no XMP profiles that NUC would only work with ram up to 2400.
TL;DR: If you don't do much with it, it's great. Else; it's severely thermally castrated.
My biggest problem with this unit is the fact that at full load, the processor CANNOT run at full speed that it otherwise SHOULD be able to run at due to Intel's crappy thermal management solution that they have designed and engineered for this.
You can see that in the AIDA64 system stress test that the CPU caps out at 3.0 GHz during that portion of the test because it is being choked/castrated by the crappy thermal management system.
I have one of these at home and it will hit the Tj limit of 100 C with an ambient temperature of around 22-23 C which means that in order for it to stay within the thermal power limit, it can ONLY run at 3.0 GHz rather than at its full turbo speed.
In summary, if you don't do much with it, these things are great.
But if you intend on doing basically ANYTHING else with it (it was able to hit the thermal power limit just by installing Windows 10 updates), it's not a very good system since you can't make use of its full potential.
The Core i3 variants run a little bit better, but you also get less performance out of a Core i3 to begin with. (I have another slightly older NUC that has a Core i3 7100U and that one actually runs "better" in the sense that at least I can make full use of the CPU without the CPU running into the thermal limit and then getting severely throttled just to keep it below the thermal power limit.)
Prime95 w/Furmark test is concerning. CPU clock drops to 1 GHz while GPU & CPU are under heavy load. It looks like the system is heavily biased toward GPU performance, so high GPU usage robs the CPU of clock frequency.
The memory you have in the gallery photos does not match the memory listed in the specs table on page 1. In fact, I'm not sure that RipjawsV F4-3000C16-16GRS even exists since I can't find it on newegg or amazon.
hey intel, how about making this a real HTPC and just let us use a remote to power it on or off? the fact that this very simple feature is not standard on computers these days just boggles my mind.
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dontlistentome - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
A few niggles still on my NUC7 -1. Firmware upgrades locked you out if you used Bitlocker (as in no rescue key, bye bye everything). At least it now warns you to suspend Bitlocker, but if lenovo can manage these upgrades seamlessly, why can't Intel?
2. Thunderbolt implementation - seems incomplete as it won't play nice with a lenovo TB3 dock (multiple other machines do) and can't be powered from it (an edge case, I know)
3. DP/HDMI implementation. Won't sleep my screen correctly so the keep coming on every few minutes. Have to turn them off at the switch.
Other than that, it does the job but will be waiting a few generations before I upgrade (or will get a Zotac Zen box instead...)
Badelhas - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I also have a Intel Nuc. How can I do a firmware upgrade?Cheers
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
If everything is working... do not update.Other than that go to intel.co.uk, support, auto driver update or something like that.
eastcoast_pete - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
I can only second that! Updating a NUC without need can result in a "home theater" experience of the unwanted kind.MrCommunistGen - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Intel has a download center for drivers and whatnot. You can find it by doing an internet search for Intel Download Center or by just going to downloadcenter dot intel dot com (I'm not sure what the policies are here for posting URLs).The simplest way to get all the driver and BIOS updates is likely to run their latest generation update detection tool by clicking "Get started" next to where it says "Automatically update your drivers". This should be visible on the main landing page for the Downloadcenter.
If you want to do the updates manually, or you feel like the Automatic detection tool missed something you can download and apply the updates manually. To do this you'll need your NUC's model number. For example, I have a 7th Gen i5 NUC, so my model number is: NUC7i5BNH.
Ratman6161 - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
dontlistentome is talking about a system where the drive has been encrypted with bitlocker. The NUC is no different than any other system in this regard.niva - Friday, April 5, 2019 - link
Actually it is different, he specifically stated that other systems can handle firmware upgrades while the NUCs can't.Axltech - Wednesday, April 10, 2019 - link
fairly swift and easy to auto intel driver update app : https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28425/In...acme64 - Thursday, April 11, 2019 - link
f7 on the biosmikato - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Yeah I was waiting for the Zotac ZBox MA551 with Ryzen 5 2400G but that never showed.StevoLincolnite - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
The only thing that hinders me from jumping onto one of these... Is the Intel Decelerator Graphics.AMD needs to apply some much needed competition in the NUC space I think!
notashill - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Check out the ASRock DeskMini A300 or HP EliteDesk 705, not *quite* as small as the NUC but fairly close and use Ryzen APUs.Irata - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
The AT review of it should be due in a week or two according to Ganesh (he added this as a comment under the Intel based A310).Targon - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Zotac offers AMD based solutions. I'd wait for the 7nm AMD chips if you can wait, since they will be better for very small machines.sor - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Zotac is dead to me after teasing the MA551 (the only potential ryzen competitor to the NUC) for over a year and then canceling it. I’m not aware of any Zotac competitors at this level that have a modern AMD APU.I was on the verge of buying one of these NUCs but at the last moment the Asrock A300W came out, which is a much better deal. Far better graphics and cheaper.
Irata - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
I think it's good to remember companies who have let us down in the past when making purchase decisions.mikato - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Yes, I kept waiting for that also. I didn't realize they formally cancelled it, I just never heard anything and when I searched periodically I just found other people wondering the same thing.sor - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
I came across this thread. I assume “Z_staff” speaks for Zotac.https://www.reddit.com/r/ZOTAC/comments/9af6by/zot...
mikato - Friday, May 3, 2019 - link
Ah. Well good to know finally I guess :/jordanclock - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
They get the Hades Canyon NUC with the Vega M GH? You get a fast Intel CPU and a noticeable bump in GPU performance. Granted, you're also doubling the power usage.HStewart - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I think a good NUC will be when Intel has Gen 11 graphics which is suppose to be around NVidia 1030 level but integrated on GPU.Irata - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
So the RX Vega 11 iGPU level then ?ab3cv - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Any idea whether the graphics can support the Dell 49 Ultrasharp with resolution of 5120 x 1440 at 60Hz?Thanks
cacnoff - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I have tried this monitor on both the Type-C port as well as the HDMI port and both seem to be able to drive the panel at the 5120x1440@60hz resolution just fine. I will have a second panel on thursday to see if it can drive both at the same time fine.jpap - Friday, April 5, 2019 - link
Glad it can drive at least one 512x1440@60 panel. I'm keen to hear if it can drive two simultaneously! That would be one awesome minimal desktop system. :-)ToTTenTranz - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I for one think it's incredible that the 8559U with a 28W TDP and a GT3 Gen9 is getting practically the same or higher performance than the 6770HQ with a 45W TDP and a GT4 Gen9, considering they're both made on different variations of what's essentially the same node.PeachNCream - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Yeah, its nice to see the TDP for performance do that sort of thing so clearly. It's also nice that you can now purchase Skull Canyon equivalent power without being forced to have the Skull Canyon name. I was always put off by the whole death and bones branding. It's too visceral and ugly in a world that has enough real life death in it. Bean Canyon sounds a lot better.Ashinjuka - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I agree. I'm worn away by the mainstreaming of the Death Cult America but I guess that's what tends to happen when a society is imploding.Sailor23M - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I have a Skull Canyon that I picked up on 25% sale from newegg 2 years ago and its been a solid SFF machine, Intel packages an extra normal (non-skull) lid if you rather use that one. There is a dedicated intel support page for the machine with all drivers and firmware. I have mine mounted behind my monitor for a very clean AIO look with a wireless mouse n keyboard.TheinsanegamerN - Friday, April 5, 2019 - link
The 90's called they want their moral panic back.DimeCadmium - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
You do realize the skull doesn't have to be visible?PeachNCream - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
It's not just the morbid case cover that bothers me. The fact is that the brand name in general is something that discourages my interest in an otherwise solid computing device. I don't need death or bones or corpse-like branding on my computer parts. That kind of thing has a way of crawling into your head and sticking around in there. It may seem trivial, but to someone that has had to see and deal with real world violence, it just isn't something I want associated with something I use for work and play at home.GreenReaper - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
What I want to know is this: where are all these canyons? Time was, codenames were based on actual locations, but nowadays I'm not sure. There's nothing on Google Maps...mikato - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Me too. And if Bean Canyon isn't a real place, then I can't understand how such a ridiculous name would be used for a CPU.MrCommunistGen - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I'm not at all disagreeing with your point -- Intel has made pretty substantial gains in efficiency -- but we should all just remember that the CPUs in both systems are probably blowing WAY past their TDP (non-turbo) ratings to achieve the performance we're seeing in these benchmarks.MrCommunistGen - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I kept not finding the Power Consumption figures in the article. Under a full CPU + GPU load it looks like Bean Canyon is pulling ~72W at the wall and Skull Canyon is pulling ~77W at the wall.Still impressive since Bean Canyon tends to be a bit faster and has a smaller GPU configuration.
IntelUser2000 - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Skull Canyon just sucks. It should be performing 30-50% faster than this one. No wonder nothing outside of a single Intel NUC used it. The previous two Iris Pros sucked too. Each generation made it worse.FATCamaro - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
These make a Mac mini look like a deal.cacnoff - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Ganesh,"Perhaps an additional Thunderbolt 3 controller directly attached to the CPU's PCIe lanes could make the platform look even more attractive."
This is a 14nm U-Series Part, there are no CPU PCIe lanes on it. Maybe complain about the U-Series parts not having pcie on the cpu package rather than about the NUC not having a feature that is impossible to support.
jordanclock - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
You sure about that? Ark pretty clearly lists the 8559U has having 16 PCIe lanes.cacnoff - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
These are platform PCIe lanes that come off the OPI (on package interface) as there are no discrete pch options for U series cpus.Check the direct processor page here.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/p...
"PCI Express (PCIe) Configurations describe the available PCIe lane configurations that can be used to link the PCH PCIe lanes to PCIe devices."
DenvR - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I'm pretty sure all 14nm U-series processors feature at least 8 PCIe 3.0 lanes, some even more (the i5-7200U has got 12 of those and the i7-8559U 16. Please correct me if I'm wrong.vortexmak - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Did Intel drop the IR receiver from the NUC?mikato - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
I wondered this also. The board layout diagram has a "CIR Receiver" so maybe that's it. But I'm really surprised there is no mention in the system specs table next to I/O or in any of the HTPC pages of the article. Wasn't it one of the good selling points of these Intel boxes?CSMR - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Shame that this is lacking a full displayport output, instead making it an old DP1.2 share a thunderbolt output. Displayport is more important than hdmi for a machine that is overkill for HTPC use. i7s will be much more often connected to monitors than to TVs.mischlep - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
For the Intel NUC8i7BEH (Bean Canyon), in the Comparative PC Configurations, does the listed price "$963 (as configured)" include an OS or not? The other selections (other than the NUC7i7BNH) explicitly said "as configured, No OS". You specifically marked it as "as configured, no OS" in the specifications on the first page.PeachNCream - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
The price is a bit high, but I'm guessing some of that is due to the Iris GPU which is a thing I'd love to see appear in a wider variety of systems. Iris is a good idea from a power consumption and cooling simplification standpoint when compared to most dGPU offerings on the lower end of the scale.QChronoD - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Still only HDMI 2.0 and DP1.2 on these? I guess I can only hope that next version will have finally been updated to support 4k120 w/ VRR.abufrejoval - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
This CPU IMHO is one of the best designs Intel has and I’ve been itching to buy one of these for quite some time, albeit always in a slightly different form factor.For starters just enter i7-8559U into your Google search bar and hit “shopping”. You’ll notice, there are exactly two offerings: The NUC for around €500 and the MacBooks between €2000 and €3500. Perhaps the latter costs extra, because it includes one Terabyte of SSD, €120 these days in a market with competition. It certainly has just the same CPU/GPU as the €2000 model.
I own the Skylake predecessor, also designed for Apple, an i5-6267U but in a cheap Windows notebook, which has an Iris 550 iGPU with close to identical graphics performance, but only half the number of cores that top out at 3.3 GHz, but doesn’t drop below 2.9 GHz even if abused by Prime95.
It’s a sweet machine, giving nicely balanced CPU and graphics power and most importantly, it had zero price premium at the time, for twice the graphics punch of ordinary 520 or 530 iGPUs. It also performs very much identical to a 512 graphics core Kaveri A10-7850K in *every regard*, CPU INT and FP, GPU, OpenCL, only that the Kaveri uses 95 Watts not 28. It was quite simply the better APU and stopped me buying AMDs since.
It also has such great Linux compatibility CentOS, Fedora, Ubuntu and Android-x86, none of the grief Nvidia and AMD give you: I know how to manage that with all those V100, GTX and RTX I operate, but I also appreciate not having to.
Alas, you cannot buy this newer CPU inside a notebook other than at crazy Apple prices. And incidentally, you cannot buy it as a Mini-ITX either: You’re stuck with NUC or nothing… which is sort of ok, now that you stuff terabytes of NVMe at affordable prices inside.
This chip must be quite a bit more expensive to make, twice the GPU silicon real-estate, eDRAM, packaging etc., but Intel doesn’t charge extra for GPU, no matter what type, just for peak clock speed.
But it seems they also simply won’t sell the chip, not for the official price or any other, unless you’re Apple or buy a NUC. I still don’t know how Medion managed to grab sufficient number of them to produce a €600 laptop, but I knew enough to grab one, enjoyed it ever since and I am writing on it just now.
So if I cannot have another as a notebook, I’d love to use it as a mini-server: That’s another use case where the fantastic power efficiency at low loads or idle, combined with its pretty awesome sprint power is well appreciated. But I’d really like it to have ECC memory then and a slightly bigger fan for quiet operation even under load, because it will run “forever” and use consistency critical stuff, including ZFS for Linux.
But because that makes it the nicer Xeon-D for many, Intel will cut that fuse…
For Intel this NUC must be one of the lowest profit items in their inventory, which translates to one of the best value propositions if you can live with the limitations. In theory you should be able to buy the board without the case and there is at least one company out there that sells fan-less cases to fit the guts of this NUC.
Even if that case costs a €200 premium, you can still buy two fully loaded passive NUCs with 32GB of RAM and 4TB of SSD before you reach Apple entry territory.
gglaw - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
"With Thunderbolt 3 having matured, and the availability of various eGFX enclosures, the absence of a discrete GPU in the NUC8i7BEH will hardly be felt."completely disagree. Relying on huge, bulky, and costly external implementations is a horrible idea compared to paying a small premium and getting better GPU inside the NUC. Who in the world would buy a mini PC knowing they're going to frequently need to plug it into a huge box multiple times the size of the NUC and driving the total cost to a whole new bracket? There's a reason why the eGFX market is a tiny, niche market.
These are not priced as budget PC solutions, so the small price bump to get better graphics inside the box is completely worth it for users who want that type of performance. Or for others who will use it strictly for media and productivity the can stick with Intel Graphics. Almost no one should buy the base Intel Graphics with the idea of adding an eGFX solution later. They'd be better off selling the base one and buying a Ryzen or Vega M-Intel solution.
jeremyshaw - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Yeah, I made the mistake of going for an IGP + eGPU setup this time around (X1 Carbon + Lenovo GTX1050 dock). Nevermind the TB3 power issues that Lenovo finally fixed (silently), or GPU driver issues, just the need to lug around another box and its own power brick negates any weight savings over a heavier laptop with even a weak dGPU.This is a mistake I will never, ever make again. The eGPU idea really only works for Mac users, who are "forced" to buy from a range of 4 laptops (5, if you count three year old laptops being sold at full price), of which only one has a dGPU. Another has a passable IGP, that is still weaker than the worse of the current dGPUs (unless if one counts the Lenovo E480's severely throttled RX540). If you are a mac user and intend on staying one, choices are very limited, making eGPUs a necessity for those wanting more power. For anyone else out there, such sacrifices are not necessary.
Death666Angel - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Honestly, the eGPU thing only makes sense to me in one scenario: with a laptop that has an anemic GPU inside (low end AMD/Intel or just integrated) that has great battery life on the go but the owner wants to play some games at home on a larger monitor with good image quality and not have the hassle to maintain two independant systems. So the eGPU enclosure stays in one place, the laptop gets lugged around, is light, long lasting and productive on the go and when you get home, one cable to make it into a decent gaming PC.eGPU on already stationary desktops is just weird (get a slightly bigger case and stick a GPU inside that, more options, probably cheaper as well) and people who lug around the eGPU enclosure and their laptop are also kinda missing the point. If you do that, why not just get a 1060 or 1080 laptop and be done with it? The prices of the whole GPU+enclosure should not be much cheaper than the built in versions and the performance delta is probably negligible compared to the increased ease of use.
flyingpants265 - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Not sure if I understand these things. ITX is already like 7x7 inches, and supports up to 9900k. Especially with undervolted chips you're looking at under 150 watts.CaedenV - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
I just hope they all come with TPM modules now. The few physical machines we have are Intel NUCs, and in the first batch we bought they didn't have them and I was speechless... I mean, even dirt cheap $300 laptops come with TPMs these days!?! how could a $4-500 machine NOT have it?Then when ordering the next round of devices we found that most of the units available through our vendors did not have them; had to do a special order! This should be a standard feature, not something we have to search out any longer!
Jorgp2 - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
Pretty sure Laptops come with an embedded TPM, which is less secure than a discrete one.Death666Angel - Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - link
"Season 4 Episode 4 of the Netflix Test Patterns title" That's definitely something I had no clue about. :Dimaheadcase - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
$963 (as configured, no OS)ok right..
Death666Angel - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
That's with a 1TB NVME SSD and 32GB RAM. Look at the base model and configure your own options and see how much it costs then (still not cheap, probably, but not as bad). And compare it to a laptop of similar specs (28W quad core with thunderbolt and eDRAM).mikato - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Yeah it said $503 barebones (need to add memory and storage). I guess you must have to really like that CPU and the case to make that competitive. When I say that, I mean it might be losing the HTPC crowd.mikato - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Actually it's not as bad as I guessed. Here is an alternative-$150 2400G
$120 Mini ITX mobo
$131 In Win Chopin
$401 total. Both would probably be plenty of power for most anyone's HTPC. The 2400G is more power/heat.
imaheadcase - Sunday, April 7, 2019 - link
Why would you compare to a laptop. This isn't even for that market, its for Home Media/dumb computer you never look at.Samus - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Man this thing is a beast. It's practically the same speed as my brand new full size desktop (Core i5-9400)DimeCadmium - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Umm, what? There aren't currently any Atom NUCs and the Bean Canyons are half a year old.Pisi - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Haven't been able to find this RAM (G.Skill RipjawsV F4-3000C16-16GRS DDR4 SODIMM) anywhere. Are you sure there's no typo involved?eastcoast_pete - Thursday, April 4, 2019 - link
Ganesh, thanks for including the HTPC-relevant tests and benchmarks in the review. Many (most?) NUCs end up serving as HTPCs, and that information is key for selecting the right one.DroidTomTom - Friday, April 5, 2019 - link
I wish someone made one with 3 HDMI outputs and high quality analog audio (Note after 2015 even so so quality analog audio is hard to find in these, have to tie up a USB port for external audio). Only need a Core i3 and 8GB of RAM and 256GB SSD would be fine.fackamato - Saturday, April 6, 2019 - link
Most people either use an AVR (audio via HDMI) or a DAC, why on earth would you want good onboard audio?bill44 - Saturday, April 6, 2019 - link
“Unfortunately, stereoscopic 3D is not supported in this configuration.”Are there any DP 1.2 or TB3 to HDMI adapter/converter that works with FP 3D?
Also, why not Titan Ridge controller with DP 1.4?
Naxxy - Sunday, April 7, 2019 - link
Did the 3000 mhz ram work just like that?? I have the Intel NUC8i7BEH and i first bought 16gb Ballistix Sport DDR4 @ 2666 and there was no way to boot the system...... had to switch to 2400mhz ram.....Talked to an Intel support and they told me that having no XMP profiles that NUC would only work with ram up to 2400.
Mr0czny - Friday, April 26, 2019 - link
Im also interested cause im going to replace desktop to this NUC 8i5 ...does 3200 MHz ram add some performance or advantages are negligible
And does it works without problems like Naxxy wrote
Hixbot - Monday, April 8, 2019 - link
You really need noise measurements in HTPC reviews.vortmax2 - Tuesday, April 9, 2019 - link
Any try an eGPU setup using the TB port? How's it work?vortmax2 - Tuesday, April 9, 2019 - link
Just read through the entire article now and noticed they already tested it...looks like a neat little gaming rig.alpha754293 - Tuesday, April 9, 2019 - link
TL;DR: If you don't do much with it, it's great. Else; it's severely thermally castrated.My biggest problem with this unit is the fact that at full load, the processor CANNOT run at full speed that it otherwise SHOULD be able to run at due to Intel's crappy thermal management solution that they have designed and engineered for this.
You can see that in the AIDA64 system stress test that the CPU caps out at 3.0 GHz during that portion of the test because it is being choked/castrated by the crappy thermal management system.
I have one of these at home and it will hit the Tj limit of 100 C with an ambient temperature of around 22-23 C which means that in order for it to stay within the thermal power limit, it can ONLY run at 3.0 GHz rather than at its full turbo speed.
In summary, if you don't do much with it, these things are great.
But if you intend on doing basically ANYTHING else with it (it was able to hit the thermal power limit just by installing Windows 10 updates), it's not a very good system since you can't make use of its full potential.
The Core i3 variants run a little bit better, but you also get less performance out of a Core i3 to begin with. (I have another slightly older NUC that has a Core i3 7100U and that one actually runs "better" in the sense that at least I can make full use of the CPU without the CPU running into the thermal limit and then getting severely throttled just to keep it below the thermal power limit.)
acme64 - Thursday, April 11, 2019 - link
only wish i have is they should include dual monitor outvoicequal - Saturday, April 13, 2019 - link
Prime95 w/Furmark test is concerning. CPU clock drops to 1 GHz while GPU & CPU are under heavy load. It looks like the system is heavily biased toward GPU performance, so high GPU usage robs the CPU of clock frequency.Brightontech - Sunday, April 21, 2019 - link
https://www.brightontech.net/2019/04/audiovideo-ed...Video Editor and Video Converter
mikato - Tuesday, April 30, 2019 - link
The memory you have in the gallery photos does not match the memory listed in the specs table on page 1. In fact, I'm not sure that RipjawsV F4-3000C16-16GRS even exists since I can't find it on newegg or amazon.NAPWR - Saturday, July 13, 2019 - link
Must be 2 x 8:https://www.amazon.com/G-SKILL-Ripjaws-PC4-24000-3...
NAPWR - Saturday, July 13, 2019 - link
I must admit,The NUC8i7BEH was recommended to me for using as a PHPBB home Server.
So I now have the Samsung M.2 Evo Plus 1TB with the RipJaws 2x 16GB 2400 as recommended.
Next is the Sata III ssd, then installing Linux Mint Mate 19.
itsratso - Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - link
hey intel, how about making this a real HTPC and just let us use a remote to power it on or off? the fact that this very simple feature is not standard on computers these days just boggles my mind.