there is one problem. in materials engineering/testing there are two factors: number of movements and simple ageing. IOW, 200,000 folds done continuously, or thereabouts, isn't the same as that number of folds with materials' ageing in addition.
what kind of knucklehead adult would put his/her $2,000 toy within reach of a toddler??? oh... yeah, your average 1%-er.
FWIW, some years ago I found a 'folding' screen patent. notably, the schematic included didn't show the screen as folding ala a piece of paper as this appears to, but rather with a distinct radius hidden inside the case. may haps that will work better.
No one will put their $2,000 phone in the hands of their toddler. They'll lock their phone up in a safe and the toddler will still get their hands on it anyway.
And how would you test for aging in a brand new smartphone?
Chances are, the materials used here have been in research for years, maybe tens of years. And along the way, they have undergone strenuous testing already and they have a lot of data points to get some extrapolation done on this thing. Not perfect, but you have to make a cost/reward analysis. It usually works out. Sometimes it doesn't (Note 7). This sort of test is done for every modern device, where certain (mechanical) aspects get used excessively (hinges, buttons, touch screen input, wheels, brakes) in boarderline situations (high heat/humidity, extreme cold, heavy loads etc.). This accelerates the aging process for certain things and materials. But it can never 100% replace 100% of user interactions with a device in 100% of situations. That's also not the point. They only care about the 95% or the 99% or the 99.5%.
Start injecting some dust/dirt into the air around the test units and let me know how many cycles it survives. I wouldn't expect it to handle 100 unfold cycles a day (there's an external display for a reason) so it doesn't need to work for 200,000 cycles, but I'd want to see evidence that it'd support 50,000 cycles under real-world conditions. Also, make sure you over-extend the hinge slightly each time... in real world use you're going to snap this thing open until it stops, you're not delicately and precisely extending it to 180* perfectly each time. You're going to be exerting force briefly after the device has reached it's full extent of travel. A perfectly precise test rig isn't testing for this, unless they account for that by making the "stationary side" attached with some sprung resistance, to allow for testing "past fully open".
Only? When you think about it, on average we can easly unlock our phone more than 50 times a day or even 100. Thats not even for a whole year and as others pointed about the wear and tear of usage over time in the human hands, they better test it for at least a million times!
Well, early adopters will buy one of these, and in a couple of years at most will early adopt a different model. As such, 5 years reliability will not be expected by most of these buyers. And the second and third generations will probably quite a bit better in some ways, just as is expected with first generation products. Also, for these "early adopters" of $2000 phones, resale value might not have such a large influence - they'll probably just return the phone and sign a new contract for a new flagship phone.
"When you think about it, on average we can easly unlock our phone more than 50 times a day or even 100. Thats not even for a whole year " I don't get what your point is. Samsung says they test this thing to withstand about 100 foldings per day for 5 years. Which is a bit less than the 200k they test for. The quoted sentence above does not make sense to me in that regard. And 5 years already seems excessive to me. The people I know who spend a lot of money on their smartphones are precisely the people who buy a new one every one to two years. The people who use their smartphone a long time (I know some who still have Galaxy S2's and ones with broken displays) don't pay a lot for their smartphones, so they won't have anything like this for years.
"The people I know who spend a lot of money on their smartphones are precisely the people who buy a new one every one to two years. The people who use their smartphone a long time (I know some who still have Galaxy S2's and ones with broken displays) don't pay a lot for their smartphones, so they won't have anything like this for years."
ah, that ole chicken and egg problem. the smaller the production run, the higher the average cost (fixed cost spread over fewer units), and so is price but not profit. put the sources of that fixed cost into higher volume units, lower the average cost, boost revenue and profit. these are supposed to be the Smartest Guys in The Room?
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FunBunny2 - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
there is one problem. in materials engineering/testing there are two factors: number of movements and simple ageing. IOW, 200,000 folds done continuously, or thereabouts, isn't the same as that number of folds with materials' ageing in addition.mode_13h - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
The real test will be to put it in the hands of a toddler.FunBunny2 - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
what kind of knucklehead adult would put his/her $2,000 toy within reach of a toddler??? oh... yeah, your average 1%-er.FWIW, some years ago I found a 'folding' screen patent. notably, the schematic included didn't show the screen as folding ala a piece of paper as this appears to, but rather with a distinct radius hidden inside the case. may haps that will work better.
s.yu - Monday, April 1, 2019 - link
There's a radius for all current foldable designs, and FYI Samsung's has the tighter curve.Mikewind Dale - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
No one will put their $2,000 phone in the hands of their toddler. They'll lock their phone up in a safe and the toddler will still get their hands on it anyway.danielfranklin - Tuesday, April 2, 2019 - link
Confirmed.I have a two year old that will stack furniture, climb and risk life and limb, all to get to that little red icon we call YouTube...
Samus - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
They are testing for what they can test for. 200,000 hinge actuations is pretty good for a device with a technological lifespan of ~3 years.Death666Angel - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
And how would you test for aging in a brand new smartphone?Chances are, the materials used here have been in research for years, maybe tens of years. And along the way, they have undergone strenuous testing already and they have a lot of data points to get some extrapolation done on this thing. Not perfect, but you have to make a cost/reward analysis. It usually works out. Sometimes it doesn't (Note 7).
This sort of test is done for every modern device, where certain (mechanical) aspects get used excessively (hinges, buttons, touch screen input, wheels, brakes) in boarderline situations (high heat/humidity, extreme cold, heavy loads etc.). This accelerates the aging process for certain things and materials. But it can never 100% replace 100% of user interactions with a device in 100% of situations. That's also not the point. They only care about the 95% or the 99% or the 99.5%.
808Hilo - Sunday, March 31, 2019 - link
Temperature, x,z twist, humidity, uv dont get tested in this setup. That means the S wont reach the artificial cycles in the lab.s.yu - Monday, April 1, 2019 - link
Indeed the twisting is a serious issue.nicolaim - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
Typo: repetativec4v3man - Thursday, March 28, 2019 - link
Start injecting some dust/dirt into the air around the test units and let me know how many cycles it survives. I wouldn't expect it to handle 100 unfold cycles a day (there's an external display for a reason) so it doesn't need to work for 200,000 cycles, but I'd want to see evidence that it'd support 50,000 cycles under real-world conditions. Also, make sure you over-extend the hinge slightly each time... in real world use you're going to snap this thing open until it stops, you're not delicately and precisely extending it to 180* perfectly each time. You're going to be exerting force briefly after the device has reached it's full extent of travel. A perfectly precise test rig isn't testing for this, unless they account for that by making the "stationary side" attached with some sprung resistance, to allow for testing "past fully open".TheOtherOn - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
Only?When you think about it, on average we can easly unlock our phone more than 50 times a day or even 100. Thats not even for a whole year and as others pointed about the wear and tear of usage over time in the human hands, they better test it for at least a million times!
Calin - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
Well, early adopters will buy one of these, and in a couple of years at most will early adopt a different model. As such, 5 years reliability will not be expected by most of these buyers. And the second and third generations will probably quite a bit better in some ways, just as is expected with first generation products.Also, for these "early adopters" of $2000 phones, resale value might not have such a large influence - they'll probably just return the phone and sign a new contract for a new flagship phone.
Death666Angel - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
"When you think about it, on average we can easly unlock our phone more than 50 times a day or even 100. Thats not even for a whole year "I don't get what your point is. Samsung says they test this thing to withstand about 100 foldings per day for 5 years. Which is a bit less than the 200k they test for. The quoted sentence above does not make sense to me in that regard. And 5 years already seems excessive to me. The people I know who spend a lot of money on their smartphones are precisely the people who buy a new one every one to two years. The people who use their smartphone a long time (I know some who still have Galaxy S2's and ones with broken displays) don't pay a lot for their smartphones, so they won't have anything like this for years.
FunBunny2 - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
"The people I know who spend a lot of money on their smartphones are precisely the people who buy a new one every one to two years. The people who use their smartphone a long time (I know some who still have Galaxy S2's and ones with broken displays) don't pay a lot for their smartphones, so they won't have anything like this for years."ah, that ole chicken and egg problem. the smaller the production run, the higher the average cost (fixed cost spread over fewer units), and so is price but not profit. put the sources of that fixed cost into higher volume units, lower the average cost, boost revenue and profit. these are supposed to be the Smartest Guys in The Room?
Gunbuster - Friday, March 29, 2019 - link
Honestly more worried about micro and macro scratches in the plastic surface. Welcome back to the squishy plastic screen winmo/touch pro days people.s.yu - Monday, April 1, 2019 - link
Well I think it'll come with a protection film, a TPU film actually lasts pretty long.