"he saw 5G being used in the suburbs being used instead of the last mile of cable from the cabinet to the home, removing the need for a cable completely" As long as we have our current telecom companies with they crappy data caps/prices from 10 years ago, yeah right!
The biggest obstacle to having my laptop "always connected " is not technology, but the obscene pricing of data plans, be they 3G, 4G or 5G. Unless that changes, the higher speed that 5G might offer just means that you can exhaust your monthly data allotment in an afternoon. How is that progress?
That's more of a "USA sucks" problem. The rest of the world, including Europe and especially East Asia will happily deploy 5G as a genuine alternative to fixed-line broadband.
It's mainly a people in the US assuming the worst before something is even announced. We have no idea what the limits will be on 5G because there is no 5G yet.
I'm not going to call you naive, but maybe a bit inexperienced sounding to say the least. If you extend your time horizon back far enough, you'll certainly lose all of those hopes and dreams just like the rest of us that have become bitter over being repeatedly crushed time and time again by cellular communications providers. Come on, put aside your starry-eyed, youthful dreams and descend into our pit of despair where we simply accept a swift monthly kick in our sensitive income-making bits from said provider and then ask them how else we can please them in exchange for permission to disable images in our browsers and religiously monitor our meager allotment of bandwidth until our billing cycle begins anew.
You guys in South Canada have it hard way. The idea of data caps on fixed landline is probably the most ridiculous scam that has been pushed into the people I know of. In Europe... well... there were offers of monthly data caps introduced around 2005, but ISPs have been laughed off even on TV. I recently moved into rather rural area, and still have choice of three ISPs offering me nearly identical symmeterical 1Gb/s over fiber (given the distances, that's the only option). I chose two of them, both under $30/month, have failover, and I can push data 24/7/365.
If only! I spend significant time in Europe (mostly France, Germany) , and the data plans there are maybe a bit cheaper, but not much. A 25 GB plan is pricey there, too. Don't know about Asia, haven't been there in a while.
That is an Ok price. Maybe it's one of the reasons that LTE modems seem to be more in demand there than here in the US or in Europe. Another example how a dysfunctional market w/o real competition (mobile carrier oligopoly) prevents widespread adoption of newer technology.
FWIW, I currently pay £14/month for 12GB of LTE data. If I wanted unlimited data, it would still only be £27/month. And the UK isn't exactly the best in Europe, you can get even cheaper in other countries!
I'm surprised by the form factor too. I don't think I've seen a 30mm wide m.2 device ever, and had always assumed it was in the spec just as a bone tossed to companies with legacy mini-pci/msata devices in that they could theoretically swap IO without having to redesign the rest of their PCB.
Looking at it, I'm assuming the modules are 30x42mm, which gives an area of 1260mm, which is just 5% smaller than a conventional 22x60mm module at 1320. Using an uncommon form factor has to be imposing a tooling cost so I doubt it's actually saving anything. Maybe the squarer form factor lets them manage PCB trace lengths better? I hope you can get a statement out of one of the manufacturers to clarify why they're doing it this way.
I am excite about Intel's Foveros technology is next evolution of EMiB but this version is 3D in design this would allow 5G chip to be store in same area space of CPU and even GPU.
I'd rather have the M.2 because it's not guaranteed laptop makers will put forth the engineering required to build out the antenna and amplifier systems that the in-silicon modems require.
It may not matter too much, 5G technology may not be advance enough to put on CPU chip even with 3d layering. Plus I heard that 5G really deliveries a lot of radiation.
You may want to read up on 5G's penetration capabilities. Granted, antennas that aren't space-constrained like they are in a phone would offer some measure of help, but there are physical limits to the transmission technologies that make indoor usage seem more likely to fallback to 4G frequency bands. I suppose there's always the option of an external antenna array like we used to use back in the days of broadcast television where we had to rotate the mast atop the house to pick up certain stations more clearly. However to answer your question, yes, there will be 5G routers just as there are 4G models now (commonly referred to as wireless hotspots) though they may use more tightly integrated modem designs that are single board systems.
@Ian: I know that it's not directly about 5G technology, but could you or another AT writer summarize and comment on the state of backhaul capabilities in various markets and its impact on fast wireless? What many forget in the excitement over faster LTE and now 5G is that, in order to get the full wireless speed, the receiving (cell) stations have to be able to backhaul those data. Unfortunately, that bandwidth is often painfully low, and underdeveloped. It's like having a 4x4 MIMO > 2 Gb/s AC wireless router hooked up to a 1.5 Mb DSL line - very disappointing.
You can have a portion of what you pay for most of the time. I can actually say that with the weight of my TELCO roots behind me since I'm on the payroll at the moment. (Says someone that gets an employee discount but still uses a third-party prepaid phone because its STILL cheaper even after the discount.)
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Pneumothorax - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
"he saw 5G being used in the suburbs being used instead of the last mile of cable from the cabinet to the home, removing the need for a cable completely"As long as we have our current telecom companies with they crappy data caps/prices from 10 years ago, yeah right!
eastcoast_pete - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
The biggest obstacle to having my laptop "always connected " is not technology, but the obscene pricing of data plans, be they 3G, 4G or 5G. Unless that changes, the higher speed that 5G might offer just means that you can exhaust your monthly data allotment in an afternoon. How is that progress?prophet001 - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
Trueclose - Wednesday, March 6, 2019 - link
And also for example MS's insistence to download "Important" updates even on metered connections.PeachNCream - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
I can't agree more. Mobile data hasn't been as much about throughput as it has the TELCOs and their draconian plans and pricing.r3loaded - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
That's more of a "USA sucks" problem. The rest of the world, including Europe and especially East Asia will happily deploy 5G as a genuine alternative to fixed-line broadband.Goodspike - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
It's mainly a people in the US assuming the worst before something is even announced. We have no idea what the limits will be on 5G because there is no 5G yet.PeachNCream - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
I'm not going to call you naive, but maybe a bit inexperienced sounding to say the least. If you extend your time horizon back far enough, you'll certainly lose all of those hopes and dreams just like the rest of us that have become bitter over being repeatedly crushed time and time again by cellular communications providers. Come on, put aside your starry-eyed, youthful dreams and descend into our pit of despair where we simply accept a swift monthly kick in our sensitive income-making bits from said provider and then ask them how else we can please them in exchange for permission to disable images in our browsers and religiously monitor our meager allotment of bandwidth until our billing cycle begins anew.Vatharian - Tuesday, March 5, 2019 - link
You guys in South Canada have it hard way. The idea of data caps on fixed landline is probably the most ridiculous scam that has been pushed into the people I know of. In Europe... well... there were offers of monthly data caps introduced around 2005, but ISPs have been laughed off even on TV. I recently moved into rather rural area, and still have choice of three ISPs offering me nearly identical symmeterical 1Gb/s over fiber (given the distances, that's the only option). I chose two of them, both under $30/month, have failover, and I can push data 24/7/365.eastcoast_pete - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
If only! I spend significant time in Europe (mostly France, Germany) , and the data plans there are maybe a bit cheaper, but not much. A 25 GB plan is pricey there, too. Don't know about Asia, haven't been there in a while.Ian Cutress - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
As a foreign traveller to Taiwan: unlimited LTE SIM for two weeks is ~$20.eastcoast_pete - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
That is an Ok price. Maybe it's one of the reasons that LTE modems seem to be more in demand there than here in the US or in Europe. Another example how a dysfunctional market w/o real competition (mobile carrier oligopoly) prevents widespread adoption of newer technology.r3loaded - Tuesday, March 5, 2019 - link
FWIW, I currently pay £14/month for 12GB of LTE data. If I wanted unlimited data, it would still only be £27/month. And the UK isn't exactly the best in Europe, you can get even cheaper in other countries!DanNeely - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
I'm surprised by the form factor too. I don't think I've seen a 30mm wide m.2 device ever, and had always assumed it was in the spec just as a bone tossed to companies with legacy mini-pci/msata devices in that they could theoretically swap IO without having to redesign the rest of their PCB.Looking at it, I'm assuming the modules are 30x42mm, which gives an area of 1260mm, which is just 5% smaller than a conventional 22x60mm module at 1320. Using an uncommon form factor has to be imposing a tooling cost so I doubt it's actually saving anything. Maybe the squarer form factor lets them manage PCB trace lengths better? I hope you can get a statement out of one of the manufacturers to clarify why they're doing it this way.
HStewart - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
I am excite about Intel's Foveros technology is next evolution of EMiB but this version is 3D in design this would allow 5G chip to be store in same area space of CPU and even GPU.Morawka - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
I'd rather have the M.2 because it's not guaranteed laptop makers will put forth the engineering required to build out the antenna and amplifier systems that the in-silicon modems require.HStewart - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
It may not matter too much, 5G technology may not be advance enough to put on CPU chip even with 3d layering. Plus I heard that 5G really deliveries a lot of radiation.Goodspike - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
Could they design routers to use these? That could help make 5G a cable/DSL alternative.PeachNCream - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
You may want to read up on 5G's penetration capabilities. Granted, antennas that aren't space-constrained like they are in a phone would offer some measure of help, but there are physical limits to the transmission technologies that make indoor usage seem more likely to fallback to 4G frequency bands. I suppose there's always the option of an external antenna array like we used to use back in the days of broadcast television where we had to rotate the mast atop the house to pick up certain stations more clearly. However to answer your question, yes, there will be 5G routers just as there are 4G models now (commonly referred to as wireless hotspots) though they may use more tightly integrated modem designs that are single board systems.eastcoast_pete - Monday, March 4, 2019 - link
@Ian: I know that it's not directly about 5G technology, but could you or another AT writer summarize and comment on the state of backhaul capabilities in various markets and its impact on fast wireless? What many forget in the excitement over faster LTE and now 5G is that, in order to get the full wireless speed, the receiving (cell) stations have to be able to backhaul those data. Unfortunately, that bandwidth is often painfully low, and underdeveloped. It's like having a 4x4 MIMO > 2 Gb/s AC wireless router hooked up to a 1.5 Mb DSL line - very disappointing.PeachNCream - Tuesday, March 5, 2019 - link
You can have a portion of what you pay for most of the time. I can actually say that with the weight of my TELCO roots behind me since I'm on the payroll at the moment. (Says someone that gets an employee discount but still uses a third-party prepaid phone because its STILL cheaper even after the discount.)