HTPCs are an administrative burden. The last thing I need is yet another stupid PC that needs updates, upgrades, and attention. My time is limited and too valuable to waste on crap like that.
Most definitely, I cut out the middleman and bought an Android TV. When it's hopelessly outdated I'll get a new Android TV box. Android-powered boxes can do anything I want in the living room and don't have all those Windows administrative problems. I used to run an actual Active Directory server at home to "make it easier", good riddance to all of that.
I wonder if you'd made the same negative comment, had this been an Intel-powered machine? There are plenty of uses for a small PC like this, not just HTPC. It's great that Ryzen is getting more attention.
I'm guessing "yes", as the comment was more about HTPC's in general, not whether it was Intel or AMD-powered.
Personally, I didn't think of it for HTPC use, although it does have that look (like an PS3 Slim). I was thinking more of a desktop that just hides away.
Android is still a ways off. We still can't do half the things that a Kodi x64 install can accomplish with an Android box. MadVR, CinemaVision, arcade emulation. No, just no.
Funny when they raise memory module speed (MT/s), they also raise CAS latency (slower timing). Which means the DDR4-2400 CAS 16 here would be 21% slower than my 8 years-old DDR3-1333 CAS 7.
Timings have largely stayed constant, and bandwidth increases substantially. 2400 CL16 is particularly bad on the timing side, though. I have 3200 CL14 modules, which isn't even that high-end, which has excellent timings and decent bandwidth.
Always remember that you cannot compare the cycle count verbatin, since it is in relation to the clock. If you double the clock, you can also double the CAS cycles without increasing the absolute latency. So a 3200 CL14 not only has significantly higher bandwidth then your DDR3 modules, but also lower absolute latency (8.75ns vs your 10.5ns)
RAM tech has not become stagnant. 50 ns is a fundamental limitation of SDRAM. Lower latency RAM has existed for as long as RAM has existed. Want faster and lower latency RAM? Reduce your density by a factor of six and cough up a lot of dough. The chips exist, they're just not the best solution for mainstream computing.
The focus has been on reduced power consumption and increased density. RAM performance hasn't been an issue for mainstream CPU architecture for some time. Even Intel CPU's show negligible difference going from dual-channel to single-channel (which is why most OEM's still sell systems as the later. Intel has also scaled back on triple and quad channel systems even in the HEDT market. It just isn't where the bottleneck is. RAM is SO fast that Intel considered making is SLOWER with the whole concept behind X-point. There is more of a need for capacity (in the terabytes) because the focus needs to flip back to performance. As it is most large memory systems can completely clear and refresh themselves in under a second (a DDR4-4000 interface on the X299 can transfer 130GB/sec and handles 128GB of memory)
As cache sizes on CPU's get larger and branch prediction units get better, there is no need to cache out to RAM as much.
The only thing that really benefits from faster RAM is the iGPU.
On a sidenote, what happened to the A300 chipset? That was supposed to be a platform for ultracompacts that reduced the motherboard footprint by entirely omitting the Southbridge and instead relying soley on the SATA/USB/Audio functionality that's built into the APUs. Sounded neat when it was announced at Ryzen launch but I haven't heard a peep about it since...
However, with a wired connection, some businesses would consider it. Not having even cheap 10/100 definitely limits the appeal for business.
Frankly, it's not like they don't the space for it, so cheaping out in this case is just cheap. This UCFF isn't even NUC size, and yet a NUC has a GB port.
You could plug a dongle or an entire hub in. Plenty of USB for that. But sure, it's a cost-cutting measure, and probably wouldn't offer quite the same latency.
I'm a little confused as to who, exactly, will be buying this. The lack of ethernet makes offices unlikely; the HTPC market has got to be pretty small these days, and people wanting an SFF PC for say, light esports use on Ryzen APUs would almost certainly have wanted faster RAM support given how much Ryzen likes the extra bandwidth.
Maybe "everyday" home desktop that can hide away? But how many people buy THOSE these days (since "normal" consumers just get a laptop, and the reason to get a desktop tends to lie in higher-end components that are power hungry)
The lack of an ethernet port is strange considering its sister product, the LIVA One H310, has one. It may just be missing from the listing. I haven't been able to find a photo of the rear of the SF110-A320, unfortunately.
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DigitalFreak - Thursday, January 17, 2019 - link
I got rid of my HTPC years ago. Nvidia Shield did everything it did, without the hassle.PeachNCream - Thursday, January 17, 2019 - link
HTPCs are an administrative burden. The last thing I need is yet another stupid PC that needs updates, upgrades, and attention. My time is limited and too valuable to waste on crap like that.Flunk - Thursday, January 17, 2019 - link
Most definitely, I cut out the middleman and bought an Android TV. When it's hopelessly outdated I'll get a new Android TV box. Android-powered boxes can do anything I want in the living room and don't have all those Windows administrative problems. I used to run an actual Active Directory server at home to "make it easier", good riddance to all of that.peterfares - Thursday, January 17, 2019 - link
Same. I loved mine back in 2011-2014 or so, but after that the streaming boxes got pretty good, and now they're great. Don't miss it at all.AshlayW - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
I wonder if you'd made the same negative comment, had this been an Intel-powered machine? There are plenty of uses for a small PC like this, not just HTPC. It's great that Ryzen is getting more attention.romrunning - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
I'm guessing "yes", as the comment was more about HTPC's in general, not whether it was Intel or AMD-powered.Personally, I didn't think of it for HTPC use, although it does have that look (like an PS3 Slim). I was thinking more of a desktop that just hides away.
acme64 - Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - link
what if i told you, a shield tv is an HTPCHifihedgehog - Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - link
Android is still a ways off. We still can't do half the things that a Kodi x64 install can accomplish with an Android box. MadVR, CinemaVision, arcade emulation. No, just no.StevoLincolnite - Thursday, January 17, 2019 - link
Limited by DDR4 2400Mhz memory is sad to see.38.4GB/s of bandwidth just isn't enough for the CPU+1080P gaming.
3200Mhz memory would boost that to 51.2GB/s which makes things a bit better in hitting that res...
sonny73n - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
Funny when they raise memory module speed (MT/s), they also raise CAS latency (slower timing). Which means the DDR4-2400 CAS 16 here would be 21% slower than my 8 years-old DDR3-1333 CAS 7.Has RAM tech become stagnant?
AshlayW - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
It has slightly higher latency but significantly more bandwidth. DDR4 only really gets universally better than DDR3 when you hit the 3000 MHz mark.nevcairiel - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
Timings have largely stayed constant, and bandwidth increases substantially. 2400 CL16 is particularly bad on the timing side, though. I have 3200 CL14 modules, which isn't even that high-end, which has excellent timings and decent bandwidth.Always remember that you cannot compare the cycle count verbatin, since it is in relation to the clock. If you double the clock, you can also double the CAS cycles without increasing the absolute latency. So a 3200 CL14 not only has significantly higher bandwidth then your DDR3 modules, but also lower absolute latency (8.75ns vs your 10.5ns)
willis936 - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
RAM tech has not become stagnant. 50 ns is a fundamental limitation of SDRAM. Lower latency RAM has existed for as long as RAM has existed. Want faster and lower latency RAM? Reduce your density by a factor of six and cough up a lot of dough. The chips exist, they're just not the best solution for mainstream computing.Samus - Saturday, January 19, 2019 - link
The focus has been on reduced power consumption and increased density. RAM performance hasn't been an issue for mainstream CPU architecture for some time. Even Intel CPU's show negligible difference going from dual-channel to single-channel (which is why most OEM's still sell systems as the later. Intel has also scaled back on triple and quad channel systems even in the HEDT market. It just isn't where the bottleneck is. RAM is SO fast that Intel considered making is SLOWER with the whole concept behind X-point. There is more of a need for capacity (in the terabytes) because the focus needs to flip back to performance. As it is most large memory systems can completely clear and refresh themselves in under a second (a DDR4-4000 interface on the X299 can transfer 130GB/sec and handles 128GB of memory)As cache sizes on CPU's get larger and branch prediction units get better, there is no need to cache out to RAM as much.
The only thing that really benefits from faster RAM is the iGPU.
KateH - Thursday, January 17, 2019 - link
looks nice! no GbE is a bummer though.On a sidenote, what happened to the A300 chipset? That was supposed to be a platform for ultracompacts that reduced the motherboard footprint by entirely omitting the Southbridge and instead relying soley on the SATA/USB/Audio functionality that's built into the APUs. Sounded neat when it was announced at Ryzen launch but I haven't heard a peep about it since...
GreenReaper - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
Agreed, but there are relatively cheap USB 3.1 to Ethernet dongles that can do 5 Gbps.romrunning - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
However, with a wired connection, some businesses would consider it. Not having even cheap 10/100 definitely limits the appeal for business.Frankly, it's not like they don't the space for it, so cheaping out in this case is just cheap. This UCFF isn't even NUC size, and yet a NUC has a GB port.
SquarePeg - Thursday, January 17, 2019 - link
At least they found a use for all those leftover PlayStation 2 cases.Lord of the Bored - Thursday, January 17, 2019 - link
Eh, Sony stole the design from Atari anyways.https://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?...
The_Assimilator - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
How does any company justify omitting wired Ethernet? Seriously...GreenReaper - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
You could plug a dongle or an entire hub in. Plenty of USB for that. But sure, it's a cost-cutting measure, and probably wouldn't offer quite the same latency.B166ER - Sunday, January 20, 2019 - link
yet my AMD B350 mobo STILL allows for serial ports and PS/2 peripherals...sing_electric - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
I'm a little confused as to who, exactly, will be buying this. The lack of ethernet makes offices unlikely; the HTPC market has got to be pretty small these days, and people wanting an SFF PC for say, light esports use on Ryzen APUs would almost certainly have wanted faster RAM support given how much Ryzen likes the extra bandwidth.Maybe "everyday" home desktop that can hide away? But how many people buy THOSE these days (since "normal" consumers just get a laptop, and the reason to get a desktop tends to lie in higher-end components that are power hungry)
5080 - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
Looks like Asrock's DeskMini A300 Series is a much better product. It comes with Ethernet, supports DDR4-2933MHz memory and has a dual M.2 NVMe support.https://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/DeskMini%20A300%...
SeanFL - Wednesday, April 8, 2020 - link
And now in 2020, this ASRock A320 Jupiter looks even smaller and nicer:https://wccftech.com/asrock-jupiter-a320-mini-pc-i...
Hope it comes out soon.
ET - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
From the spec it looks to me like this supports two drives: a 2.5" (with SATA power header) and an M.2 drive.ET - Friday, January 18, 2019 - link
The lack of an ethernet port is strange considering its sister product, the LIVA One H310, has one. It may just be missing from the listing. I haven't been able to find a photo of the rear of the SF110-A320, unfortunately.B166ER - Sunday, January 20, 2019 - link
PlayStation 2?MASSAMKULABOX - Thursday, August 29, 2019 - link
coming soon :Socket AM4 Picasso Athlon 300GE 35W 3.40GHz 4MB B1 06/13/2019Socket AM4 Picasso Athlon 300GE 35W 3.40GHz 4MB B1 06/13/2019
Socket AM4 Picasso Athlon 320GE 35W 3.50GHz 4MB B1 06/13/2019
Socket AM4 Picasso Ryzen 3 3200GE 35W 3.30GHz 4MB B1 06/13/2019
Socket AM4 Picasso Ryzen 3 3200GE 35W 3.30GHz 4MB B1 06/13/2019
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Socket AM4 Picasso Ryzen 5 3400GE 35W 3.30GHz 4MB B1 06/13/2019
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