I don't think we'll see any more big jumps until PCIe 4.0 ships. Pretty much everybody has caught up on the NAND side, and most of the controller vendors have had decent NVMe controllers out for a while. There's no low-hanging fruit like there was when companies were still trying to make SM2260 or Phison E7 compete against Samsung with inferior NAND.
More to the point it is a consistent incremental improvement. There've been far too many cases over the years when a v.next drive was an incremental improvement in manufacturing cost, that regressed in most to all performance numbers.
96-layer nand is an improvement on production speed, yields, and manufacturing cost, rather than perf. And tbh, we don't need better perf at all, or maybe a bit in 4k random, because 150MBps is a bit low in 2019. Instead, what we need, is prices to drop, below twice the price of an hdd of the same capacity. In 2018, 1TB tlc nvme 64-layer ssd was 10 times the price of an hdd, now in Jan it's 5 times. Sata 64-layer ssd were 7 times the price of hdd, now it's 3. I'd like TLC nvme to cost twice an hdd, and sata tlc to be the same price as an hdd. With 96-layer, we'll get closer to that.
Pity that the consumer version does not get 4.0 this year... I was hoping to have 4.0 compatible ssd when AMD 570x boards comes out. Well most like with my usage even these Are fast enough and I am not going to be Bottle negged by 3.0.
I had the same reaction. I'm running an old gaming PC and I'm ready to switch to AMD with a full set of upgrades at the end of the year and was hoping for PCIE 4.0, but my SSD is so old that I know any drive will be a huge improvement.
Meta: has the scrolling video ad been moved to the right? It finally doesn't cover up the article when you scroll. Huge thank you.
970 EVO Plus: I'm excited for this to get added to the SSD 2018 Bench. Curious how close it matches the 970 PRO 512GB, now at $170. My almost-full 250GB 960 EVO needs a capacity increase and $40 isn't a big difference for a minimum two-year purchase.
Completely not exciting. Don't care about a slight speed increase which no consumer is going to notice in the their daily use anyway. All that matters in the consumer NAND space at this point is bringing prices down, which is very unlikely to happen in a business with no real competition left, read cartel.
Yeah, you're spot on. To be 100% honest, even a good ol' SATA Samsung 830 is good enough. I've used systems with fast nVME drives, as with "older" SATA SSDs, and I can pretty much say that the difference really isn't that noticeable in most use cases. But price is. Capacity is.
Two years ago, I bought a 512 GB Kingston KC400 SATA drive for $160. Today, I can buy a 1 TB Intel 660p QLC NVMe for $125, or a 1TB WD Blue SATA for $125.
So yeah, I'm pretty sure prices are falling. Maybe they're not falling 50% overnight, but falling 50% over two years is pretty darned nice.
Random read @ Q1 and Q1/2/4 is still nearly the same like on SATA drives (MX500 as reference). Would be great if NVMe vendors would be able to push that to the speed of random write which is noticeable different from SATA. Anybody knows what's holding them back from it?
Thanks for explanation! Actually makes sense indeed. This would also mean that if your workflow is read dominated and you are sensitive on latency than RAID1 of SATA drives may be faster than NVMe. At least if SATA/SAS chip is not a crap.
Even a SATA SSD could pump 4 kB random read numbers up, but it'd require pricey SLC. MLC and TLC both have 2x to 4x slower page reads to register vs SLC.
Still, TLC 4 kB random has improved, but not by "leaps and bounds" like 4K write has. The 970 EVO Plus has 53% faster random 4kB reads (sustained) than the MX 500. And even a 960 PRO has 76% faster 4kB reads (sustained) than the MX500.
FWIW, random 4K read performance (both burst and sustained) doesn't benefit much of anything from parallelization. https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2229?vs=21... The 250 GB and 1 TB 960 EVO have identical 4K read performance, i.e. within 0.75%. Random 4K write and larger page sizes are about 2x faster on the 1 TB model, however.
Not too long ago it was $135 twice with the Ebay and Rakuten 15% coupons. $155 range seems almost every other week now and frequent enough I'd even consider it the typical selling price. (Very few people who follow tech would actually pay $180 for it). Can't beat this for consumer use with the small performance differences with current gen drives. When the EX950 and SX8200 Pro phase it out and drop to the same price points, they'll replace it as best consumer deals so I don't see the new Samsung or WD having a place in my line-up.
If for some purpose I can find a use for something more expensive, it'd have to be the next gen 970 Pro (Plus?) if it's a major upgrade.
Still they are just USB-C which means maximum 10 Gb/s transfer which will limit a NVMe drive such as the 970 EVO Plus quite a lot.
Haven't really found and any compact external M.2 enclosures that are bus powered over Thunderbolt 3. Maybe they exist? But there's this: https://vimeo.com/303171402
A good external tb3 case is the TEKQ Rapide. Recently reviewed on anandtech. One thing though, be aware that the samsung 970 evo plus in that case (or possibly any external case) does not play nice with MacOS. It’s a firmware issue, the non plus version is apparently fine, so TEKQ tell me as I’ve just fallen down that hole
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Chaitanya - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Quite a minor upgrade over previous drive.jeremyshaw - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Hence the name.Billy Tallis - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
More substantial than the WD Black SN750.I don't think we'll see any more big jumps until PCIe 4.0 ships. Pretty much everybody has caught up on the NAND side, and most of the controller vendors have had decent NVMe controllers out for a while. There's no low-hanging fruit like there was when companies were still trying to make SM2260 or Phison E7 compete against Samsung with inferior NAND.
DanNeely - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
More to the point it is a consistent incremental improvement. There've been far too many cases over the years when a v.next drive was an incremental improvement in manufacturing cost, that regressed in most to all performance numbers.boozed - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
I call those performance improvements significant (just).Flunk - Thursday, January 24, 2019 - link
I don't think it's enough to elevate this drive over the high-end Silicon Motion drives in real-world uses. Not for consumers at least.nectrone - Thursday, January 24, 2019 - link
96-layer nand is an improvement on production speed, yields, and manufacturing cost, rather than perf. And tbh, we don't need better perf at all, or maybe a bit in 4k random, because 150MBps is a bit low in 2019. Instead, what we need, is prices to drop, below twice the price of an hdd of the same capacity.In 2018, 1TB tlc nvme 64-layer ssd was 10 times the price of an hdd, now in Jan it's 5 times. Sata 64-layer ssd were 7 times the price of hdd, now it's 3. I'd like TLC nvme to cost twice an hdd, and sata tlc to be the same price as an hdd. With 96-layer, we'll get closer to that.
haukionkannel - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Pity that the consumer version does not get 4.0 this year... I was hoping to have 4.0 compatible ssd when AMD 570x boards comes out. Well most like with my usage even these Are fast enough and I am not going to be Bottle negged by 3.0.sorten - Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - link
I had the same reaction. I'm running an old gaming PC and I'm ready to switch to AMD with a full set of upgrades at the end of the year and was hoping for PCIE 4.0, but my SSD is so old that I know any drive will be a huge improvement.ikjadoon - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Meta: has the scrolling video ad been moved to the right? It finally doesn't cover up the article when you scroll. Huge thank you.970 EVO Plus: I'm excited for this to get added to the SSD 2018 Bench. Curious how close it matches the 970 PRO 512GB, now at $170. My almost-full 250GB 960 EVO needs a capacity increase and $40 isn't a big difference for a minimum two-year purchase.
ikjadoon - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Ah, wait. The 970 PRO isn't actually on Bench. I don't think it's been reviewed, right?Kvaern1 - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Completely not exciting. Don't care about a slight speed increase which no consumer is going to notice in the their daily use anyway. All that matters in the consumer NAND space at this point is bringing prices down, which is very unlikely to happen in a business with no real competition left, read cartel.heffeque - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Definitely would love to see 4 and above TB SSD drives at HDD prices (or less). Tech isn't there yet I guess.piroroadkill - Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - link
Yeah, you're spot on. To be 100% honest, even a good ol' SATA Samsung 830 is good enough. I've used systems with fast nVME drives, as with "older" SATA SSDs, and I can pretty much say that the difference really isn't that noticeable in most use cases. But price is. Capacity is.stoatwblr - Thursday, January 31, 2019 - link
You might not notice the slowness of 830s, but I do. (840s are better, 850s are great)It all depends on what you're doing.
Mikewind Dale - Saturday, February 16, 2019 - link
"is bringing prices down"Two years ago, I bought a 512 GB Kingston KC400 SATA drive for $160. Today, I can buy a 1 TB Intel 660p QLC NVMe for $125, or a 1TB WD Blue SATA for $125.
So yeah, I'm pretty sure prices are falling. Maybe they're not falling 50% overnight, but falling 50% over two years is pretty darned nice.
RMSe17 - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
If not too difficult, would it be possible to add 970 Pro 1TB results for comparison?kgardas - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Random read @ Q1 and Q1/2/4 is still nearly the same like on SATA drives (MX500 as reference). Would be great if NVMe vendors would be able to push that to the speed of random write which is noticeable different from SATA. Anybody knows what's holding them back from it?Kristian Vättö - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Writes can be buffered in DRAM, but reads expose the real latency of NAND.catavalon21 - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Nice to see you pop in from time to time. You certainly burned the midnight oil on many an SSD review back in the day.kgardas - Friday, January 25, 2019 - link
Thanks for explanation! Actually makes sense indeed. This would also mean that if your workflow is read dominated and you are sensitive on latency than RAID1 of SATA drives may be faster than NVMe. At least if SATA/SAS chip is not a crap.ikjadoon - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Even a SATA SSD could pump 4 kB random read numbers up, but it'd require pricey SLC. MLC and TLC both have 2x to 4x slower page reads to register vs SLC.latency source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/6337/samsung-ssd-84...
Still, TLC 4 kB random has improved, but not by "leaps and bounds" like 4K write has. The 970 EVO Plus has 53% faster random 4kB reads (sustained) than the MX 500. And even a 960 PRO has 76% faster 4kB reads (sustained) than the MX500.
FWIW, random 4K read performance (both burst and sustained) doesn't benefit much of anything from parallelization. https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2229?vs=21... The 250 GB and 1 TB 960 EVO have identical 4K read performance, i.e. within 0.75%. Random 4K write and larger page sizes are about 2x faster on the 1 TB model, however.
Can't vouch for accuracy, but this answer sounds right: https://superuser.com/questions/1168014/nvme-ssd-w...
Alistair - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
The performance is amazing, and I've been buying the 1TB SX8200 for $180 USD before tax. Nothing beats that still.Dark_wizzie - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
1tb ex820 for $160 after tax and shipping beats it.palindrome - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
You mean EX920 and it has been as low as $153 recently (before tax).gglaw - Tuesday, January 22, 2019 - link
Not too long ago it was $135 twice with the Ebay and Rakuten 15% coupons. $155 range seems almost every other week now and frequent enough I'd even consider it the typical selling price. (Very few people who follow tech would actually pay $180 for it). Can't beat this for consumer use with the small performance differences with current gen drives. When the EX950 and SX8200 Pro phase it out and drop to the same price points, they'll replace it as best consumer deals so I don't see the new Samsung or WD having a place in my line-up.If for some purpose I can find a use for something more expensive, it'd have to be the next gen 970 Pro (Plus?) if it's a major upgrade.
** A - R ** - Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - link
https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-electronic...Billy, Specs in the official site mentions MLC, here I see it's TLC ! ?
Could You please verify it.
olafgarten - Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - link
It says 3 bit MLC, meaning TLC.mortenge - Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - link
Why do you bring Optain into the mix and not the 970 PRO, when all we care about is EVO vs PRO?alfatekpt - Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - link
The review should include 970 EVO 250GB numbers for comparison.jaydee - Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - link
HP EX920 is still the best price/performance option by comfortable margin.kidfromthe90s - Thursday, January 24, 2019 - link
Barely noticeable in real life... unless you're doing massive FEA simulations like CFDsNotationMaster - Monday, March 11, 2019 - link
Which enclosure would you suggest for such a drive to use with a T3 equipped (USB-C only) MacBook Pro? Thank youstar-affinity - Thursday, March 21, 2019 - link
This:https://raidsonic.de/products/external_cases/exter...
Or this:
https://raidsonic.de/products/external_cases/exter...
Still they are just USB-C which means maximum 10 Gb/s transfer which will limit a NVMe drive such as the 970 EVO Plus quite a lot.
Haven't really found and any compact external M.2 enclosures that are bus powered over Thunderbolt 3. Maybe they exist? But there's this: https://vimeo.com/303171402
Margaronis - Thursday, April 11, 2019 - link
A good external tb3 case is the TEKQ Rapide. Recently reviewed on anandtech. One thing though, be aware that the samsung 970 evo plus in that case (or possibly any external case) does not play nice with MacOS. It’s a firmware issue, the non plus version is apparently fine, so TEKQ tell me as I’ve just fallen down that hole