For me, the main dealbreaker is providing timely OS updates. Even oneplus fails me on this. I got moto x4 and for a bit lower than 250usd, and I have android 9. this cannot be said about most of the phone came to market in 2017.
I know for most of their phones but for moto x4 I got android 9 before onplus and samsung phones of the time that I purchased it. I wish there was a way to know before buying these phones if the companies are going to "really" continue to support their phones or not.
Spoken as a long time Android fan, to me, in a lot of ways Google has "lost the plot" with Android... However timely updates was never a part of whatever plot that was lost. I am far more concerned about the lack of anything really great update since KitKat. Android 5 was fully 64 bit and buggy, 6 just fixed bugs and I honestly dont care at all about anything added in 7,8,9. It's still buggy, it still bloaty, it's still easily corruptible. What a disappointing 5 years it has been for Android and it's OEM's.
I bought a Mi A2 Lite, which is an Android One device, so it has no bloatware and runs stock Android. I think a lot of OEMs butcher Android so much with skins, background apps and bloatware that they end up a mess. But plain old Pie tastes great so far.
I have a Pixel 2XL. Not alot of bloat either but there are still issues. Issues that a 10 year old OS shouldn't still have. I really thought this crap would be fixed by now.
This and the underwhelming hardware, especially the Pixel line, which I guess if you must have the stock os (which I alwas did go for) and camera, never felt like a flagship phone, not to merit it's price. Iffy updates and disappointing directions finally got me to switch to iOS.
If the Samsung lineup loses the headphone jack it will all be over. I really wished phone makers would put a USB-C Port on the top and a second on on the bottom so users can mix and match which ones can be used for what (top/bottom for headphones and top/bottom for charging simultaneously, top and bottom for headphones so two people can listen without tangled wires, etc.). The complete lack of USB-C headphones in the market is another major reason why people still want 3.5 mm jacks on their phones. You can't just remove the port and give us a dongle; that is not a solution.
I made a similar comment in Gsmarena on their article on dual things on smartphones. I suggested a dual type-c port and Asus narrowly did that with their RoG gaming phone. I doubt companies would. The reason they removed the jack is to save money, so another type-C port will be more expensive than retain the jack
Exactly, and to Andrei - First of all the Audio port 3.5mm jack piece is excellent, no press site mentions this at all all praise the iPhone and others and fall exactly what the OEMs put their Kool-aid out. Thanks for that.
There are a lot of shortcomings or wrongly mentioned points there, likewise how you put a 6T vs 6 and mentioned Apple included a powerful taptic engine in that space. The shortcoming here is Apple taptic engine reason is given because of the hardware chipset design the way how we perceive it. They show the chipset doesn't have space. But somehow the PCB design is always varied among 6 - 6S and 7 and so on, the PCB design will have space, look at how A12 stacked chipset in iPhone X, they folded the chipset and filled with via holes and connected them like OG iPhone. And Apple has the strength and resources to do that, not only that how the Taptic engine size varies among all iPhones and iDevices. Apple blatantly stupidly moved to that because of their user base who only knows Bose / Beats trash tier sound quality and the Made for i device program which has licensing costs and their Wireless Market. Read the below Statista report on the 2016 marketshare on the wireless devices.
Next the Note 9, why there's no mention of the Note 9 PCB and internal design ? while the 6T is a good point but that Chinese company CEO is always a PR face for asking polls and etc while saying the In Display FPS is the reason which is stupid, Meizu 16 has it with exactly same design as Samsung S9 and then the Note 9 packs this massive sized battery with S-Pen and has a same taptic engine like iPhone on the home button on screen, and packs the best in class display panel and almost everything in a phone from Health SpO2 sensor to the damn USB to HDMI output. And why not even look further like Vivo's Nex S smartphone, It has this popout camera with massive 4000mah battery again, with robust construction of the moving part, has a powerful Hi-Fi DAC chip as well from Cirrus Logic, ofc the "King of smartphone Audio LG, with their V30" I have one, V30S ( More on these Hi-Fi in the second comment)
We can clearly see how the marketing beast pays off, how the new DRM/walled garden ont he lack of 3.5mm universal jack war rages on against consumer, they aren't shooting in foot, they are shooting us in the foot forcing us to move to those planned obsolescence stupid BT audio. I had a Bose Soundsport wireless from my friend which sound rubbish vs a simple IEM like Fiio EX1 II due to the fact that it needs LDAC - An expensive license from Sony, aptX only 320Kbps limit, AptXHD ~700kbps data rate and latency issue tons of problems while it's super simple to design a device which can house a simple analog port, it was 1 year old and guess what ? the battery was dead, how are we supposed to iron that out ? Li-Ion technology is a failure on longevity of the devices, Apple is notorious for lack of user intervention on customizing or upgrading or repiring their products and their abject failure on not including the headphone jack in the latest iPad Pro which is structurally flawed worse than the 6 bend gate Touch Disease IC issue. Google should be called out as well, after blasting Apple with their cheap iPhone clone Pixel Gen 1 having a headphone jack and dropping it on Gen 2 saying "enjoy high quality digital sound" - master BS from Google, Audio as you said is analog and no way we can hear digital BS, coming from such prolific company like Google, and going to the peaks like removing it from Slate ? Omega class retardedness and people are fine with it, that Huawei going proprietary SD slot ? worst. Such lame attempts to mimic Apple on ecosystem walls and lockdowns ? and on the audio side on saving a few bucks and asking more for the trash grade wireless sets which are expensive and go to dumpster in 1 year ? Checkout this Verge piece.
It's a shame how the industry from the OEMs to the damn press sites are so biased towards the companies losing out their first hand reviews or whatever YT videos or articles to generate stupid clicks, a shame Idk how people are happy doing their shilling jobs for companies. Apple is so successful in ruining one of the best things in the history of technology, a pristine proper Audio listening through the 3.5mm analog 100 year old jack which simply does the job well without any issues.
Wish you should have covered it on a vast spectrum of devices rather that 6T but however the 6T is a good device to pick, since it has too much of fan following or highly praised for it's stupidity of under performing specs.
Realistically the answer to the audio question is to a) not buy flagships at all, if possible, and b) only buy phones with 3.5mm sockets. Send a signal through your purchases. I'm doing my part! 😼
Samsung, "providing the best audio experience in the mobile space", is cute. They're nowhere close to the best and multiple tests across the spectrum have shown that rather clearly. They are often outdone by their peninsula rival, LG, who has a significantly better DAC built into their phones.
This is wrong. LG does have a good DAC, but it has its drawbacks. The quad-dac feature serves just as a way to increase voltage, but it also increases distortion, for most average impedance headphones you are good to just leave it off.
Samsung in that regard as an adequate DAC (The Snapdragon versions perform better), but for the average user Adapt Sound will bring an much better experience to your ears than LG, even though LG might win in regards to pure analog reproduction performance out of the 3.5mm jack.
"...Adapt Sound will bring an much better experience to your ears than LG..." That's highly subjective and a generalization at best. It's funny though how you say it's wrong, yet it has been tested and Samsung has, in fact, been found... lacking by comparison.
It's a matter of fact and there's nothing subjective about it. Adapt sound will equalise for the actual perceived FR that you hear, and this makes for a bigger difference in experience than the slightly lesser distortion characteristics that LG might be able to offer. Compare the headphone FR as measured by a measurement rig to any random headphone and Samsung through AS will be able to achieve better targets than what the units would be able to reproduce on their own raw on an unaltered input, even if the actual analog input to them would be perfect. The only case in which LG would be superior in this scenario is that if you as a user would have HiFi grade units with perfect characteristics - something that for the vast majority of consumers just isn't attainable.
"Much better experience to your ears" is about as subjective a line as one could drop. Perception is different from ear to ear and person to person. You don't want to accept what you've stated as being subjective and that's fine. I just don't operate under the blanket line of thinking and prefer to not make assumptions or generalizations and try to squeeze people into them.
I'll side with you on the statement of the vast majority of users not having high fidelity headphones. I'm sure the data is out there to support that assertion and as disappointing as it may be, it is what it is. Those listeners are missing out on the sound they could be hearing by using a lower grade product. I regularly listen through a pair of Audio Technica DSR7s and they sound outstanding. Clearly not the best thing for commuting or general unobtrusiveness, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I value high quality sound reproduction and my LG V30 provides that in spades.
> "Much better experience to your ears" is about as subjective a line as one could drop. Perception is different from ear to ear and person to person.
You don't understand what subjective is.
Because perception thresholds are different for different persons, that is precisely exactly why a mechanism such as AS will be able to produce the single best result out of any audio product, and will be able that will be able to reproduce as near to an intended flat FR as possible.
The AS calibration procedure is a series of binary tests on whether you can hear a low amplitude frequency or not, this is not a subjective evaluation but an empirical determination with a consice answer of yes or no. It doesn't ask you if something sounds good or not, nor does it give you any control over the result, instead it spits a correctly compensated curve based on your hearing.
The problem with AS is that it's on the S9. It can't power high fidelity headphones so what's the use of it producing a flat sound to your ears if the low grade earphones can't even produce close to accurate sound...
As a side note (and since I can't edit my comments), I understand that this is, in effect, an opinion piece. Given that, perhaps I should have approached my commentary slightly different. My intention was not to argue with you based on the premise of my opinion being better than yours because it's different, but instead to elicit productive conversation on the topic that isn't presented in quite as matter-of-fact as it has been thus far seeing that other testing reviews stand largely contrary to what you've stated here.
My "opinions" here on the topic are based on extensive testing with audio measurement equipment (electrical in terms of analog output, as well physical in terms of SPL out of units) on all the discussed devices. Just because I haven't written it down in a dedicated piece doesn't make it less "matter-of-fact" than anything else you might have seen.
Skybill is correct, it's an opinion piece and opinions are subjective. When researching LG is well known for having some of the best sound quality, just as the Pixels are known for having the best camera's but you let your bias show in both counts.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php... I urge you to read this. The LG G7 quad dac offers objectively superior sound quality than the Galaxy S8, and the S9 by a long shot. Saying otherwise as fact is simply wrong. The only reason to use the Quad Dac is with HiFi headphones like Sennheiser HD6XX (bottom line HiFi, 200USD so pretty much anyone can get them) so saying that's the only case where the G7 is better is just ridiculous. That's what it was meant for. Not to power your crappy 50$ earbuds. The S9 couldn't even power the HD6XXs. I've tried that combo and there is 0 bass, highs are screechy and the mids seem like they're 100 yards away. My Xiaomi Mi Mix 2 with it's dongle produces vastly superior audio quality to the S9 with high impedance headphones let alone the G7. Also Adaptive Sound barely changes anything (I can pretty much hear all the frequencies so it doesn't change much) and I noticed it introduced a bit of distortion and things just didn't sound as well when I used it. How the phones sound TO YOU are purely subjective. The output quality is obiective, and the G7 stomps the S9. Saying otherwise would be like saying a Civic can lap the nordschleife faster than a Porsche 911 GT2. You might like to drive the Civic more and feel like it drives nicer, but it sure as hell gets it's a$$ wooped in a race against the 911 GT2
Saying the Aqstic DAC in the Snapdragon devices is better than the Cirrus Logic is flat out wrong. However, I'm curious what lead you to that conclusion. Objectively speaking, the DAC is the only redeeming part of the Exynos S9 this year.
I measured the Snapdragon S9's to have better output power and lower THD than the Exynos S9's. In fact the Exynos has pretty much worse output than a vast majority of devices this year. Qualcomm has made great strides in the ASoCs the last couple of years.
Sorry I don't see how you see the distortion on the LG Audio with the ESS9218P DAC chip is a HiFi SoC which is only of its kind basically a patented hardware with multiple channels of Audio processing functionality of a Delta Sigma DAC from my knowledge with superb clarity, I might not know much of its hardware functionality, like you might have known. And there's a huge misconception among people that you need to trick it to high impedance mode and all for the QuadDAC to work which is wrong, Also how LG did the job on maintaining only lowest level DAC channels with a normal gear and go up with 3 modes (I think the primary reason is battery consumption by the ESS SoC due to it's supreme powerful nature as all in one)
But here are my impressions of it, vs my iPod 5.5G / iPod 6G / SGS i9000 with Voodoo mod all with one IEM Dunu DN 1000 (I have tried VSonic GR07 BE they were great but have Bass lacking severely and IE80s which have bad Audio due to Veil, the Triple Driver is very good in DN1Ks, Joker's theheadphonelist review is really great, checkout his site, his reviews are very very good and would apply to many)
iPod 5.5G is very famous for the Wolfson DACs house sound due to it's lush 3Desque sound and the 6G moves away with a more "accurate" sonic performance making it fatiguing due to the metallic effect it has its powered by Cirrus Logic due to tightening of the Bass vs the 5.5Gs Audio performance.
The i9000 is one of the rare phones which has a full fledged Audio performance on a custom ROM, huge thanks to Supercurio, famous Android Developer for the Audio mod on it thanks to Wolfson drivers for the DAC chips. This paved way for the SGS III to have some similar functionality. The i9000 has all the settings from Dynamic Range to the Bass customization from the Mid / Sub Bass levels and the Analog DAC bypass processing for everything on phone. However the i9000 DAC performance falls short vs the iPod 5.5G due to the latter having more spacious soundstage allowing for more airy performance but it's not bad in any means it can be classified as warm signature, the clarity is superb on the iPods as a reason and very much engaging sound. Both are running 200GB SD cards. Even iPod as well, thanks to aftermarket modding community that device has more shelf life than any technology product I've came across with again a parametric EQ from Rockbox, OSS Linux OS. Mind you this is before Cirrus Logic bought them out sadly.
I was eyeing for a device which has good specs and feels great in hand that devices is none other than LG V30. It's very solid piece has exact dimensions as an OP3 yet has more in everything, the width is nor narrow and stupid like Samsung or iPhones and the camera doesn't have any bumps has this wide angle and USB to HDMI and lot.
The HiFi quad DAC, the end game. Read a lot and was skeptical, I've experimented various Digital Filters which I think is a good option but the presets are bad IMHO, The sound is simply magical, same IEMs, Dunu DN 1000, The Visceral deep bass is just pleasing and solid clarity the issue was sibilance due to TWFK drivers and more low end emphasis, mind you the clarity is still great it stomps over RHA MA750s and downside was little congested mids and sharp highs on all the devices I have. Perhaps the iPod 6G needs a revisit But the LG V30 just drives them beautifully to my surprise the fatiguing factor due to TWFKs was smoothed out and left with polished lush deep sub bass, a sub-woofer in ear with rich texture sound for all frequencies and retaining the clarity the mids were pleasing and highs as well, extremely clear sound, melodic, a totally immersive eargasmic pleasure the V30 delivers vs those Wolfson DAPs esp the iPod 5.5G which I developed a bond with, the mids and highs are so well textured and spread out to let you enjoy all those tunes on the V30. I would like to let you guys know that I tried all HIM (High Impedance Mode) and AUX modes through tavil XML files from WhiskeyOmega at XDA to trick the DAC as many want with the DN1K, And I was expecting something but ruined the sound since it reduces the volume and even raising one point up is resulting in bad quality to my ears, I think LG Engineers did a perfect job with the 3 modes of Normal, AUX, HIM as demanded by the headset. Forcing the headphone output made it sound uneven, sharp and unpleasant to even ramp up the volume a bit also idk how people are magically experiencing higher quality Audio, I already lost a lot of my hearing due to IEMs, a gain switch are what those mods are to my ears.. Did A/B testing with my DAPs and the V30 is the clear winner.
Plus the mention you said turn off, the DAC switch works by default with the LG phones, the switch on/off will have huge impact only to the HIM gear like my HD 6XX ( Only phone which could drive them, however the AMP needs more power and phone is hard, a Schiit Stack would do wonders here) The DAC kicks in the moment we plug the earphones into the 3.5mm jack, the Digital filters will be working along with only few processing lanes with the low impedance gear until 30Ohm and the AUX mode kicks in delivering the audio output as needed by the higher impedance gear and then the 50OHm+ HIM mode kicks in driving all lanes in the 9218P chip.
I've listened to the SD820 and SD835 sound and they are hollow sounding both in a car and earphone line out. Also the Adaptive Audio is done by HTC10 as well, and that phone HTC10 outshines every phone from Samsung and LGV30 beats it as well, this is according to a lot of Head-Fi'ers. V40 is having some discrepancies due to the Meridian tuning as its lost all it's lush sound for more neutral/clinical sound, See it's not always numbers. Since this topic is highly subjective it's hard to conclude. Also an important note, the DAC itself doesn't matter the Implementation matters MOST, the Sabre ESS chips are notorious for their glaring clinical sound the LGV30 is not in that. It's a wonderful implementation.
But here's another Head-Fi thread on the smartphone Audiophile stuff. Also the ESS9128 and ESS chips are used in highly appreciated gear which is rivaled by the solid DACs from Asahi Kasei Micro, AKM4490 which is in the ZTE Axon 7 and runs on Lineage OS as well. Also there in Schiit Modi and Jotunhiem / iBasso too.
On an ending note, For wired sets, Look at RHA (MA750), iBasso (IT01), Alpha Delta (AD01- Dual DD driver), Fiio EX II/Dunu Titan1 ($50, Fantastic IEM), Yamaha EPH 100, TFZ King II, and the superb performer - VSonic GR07 BE/Classic which beats IE80 (veiled sound due to mid bass leak) and a lot of higher priced IEMs but less Bass rest all perform solid. Go up a bit high for more dynamic sound and multi driver earphones like Fiio FH1 or F9, Dunu DN1000/2000, 1More Triple/Quad, Shures no BS lossy or lag or any gimmicks and keep them for longer period and high quality, with supreme sonic audio performance with Multi Driver setups. I'd quote the beast FLC 8N for its super dynamic tunable hardware like the RHA T20s and AKG K3003, Shure SE846. But far more affordable and bang for buck and TOTL vs those puny stupid Jaybird or Airpods with stupid cheap drivers.
Andrei, wasn't the headphone jack removal in OnePlus 6T attributed to the increased battery capacity or that could've been done even by keeping the 3.5mm in place?
For iPhones, while the hardware is alright, Apple is seriously lacking in terms of innovation. They have become really sloppy over the least few years, ie, same design used for more than 2 years, incremental feature improvements that is mostly playing catch up with competitors. I will not be surprised they may reused the same design in 2019 with just upgrades mainly to SOC and slightly improved cams.
Apple has always use same design Many year... it is nothing new and it is nothing bad. The idea is to find good funtional form and keep I several years and improve the hardware. Is very good concept actually. Now we will have period of iPhoneX looking phones for a while. Most likely several years and after that Apple will make new ”chell”...
Also Andrei, if you've done the measurements, let's see them! This kind of data is worth it's weight in gold online. A short one page article wld be very welcome
I see a lot of people still like to have the 3.5mm audio jack but if they just step up a bit more in the audio world, they’ll surely see that 3.5mm jack is useless.
In order to have the best audio listening experience, one needs to have a high quality audio source (lossless), a good built-in or external DAC and high grade speakers (headphones in this case). But smartphones aren’t powerful enough to drive high grade headphones, you would need an external amps to truly maximize your listening experience. Most high end headphones are high impedance. Even the low impedance ATH-M50x can tremendously benefits from an external amps. And because the external amps alone and one with DAC aren’t much different in price, it’d be simpler to feed the amps+DAC the digital bits thru USB or lightning cable and let the amp+DAC produce a cleaner analog sound. There’s no need for 3.5mm jack if you’re into better sound. Other than music, there’s always Bluetooth headsets for your convenience.
Smartphones are overrated and overpriced. Their marketing gimmicks will never work on me.
I'll agree with you on the overpriced issue, but, on the jack you're wrong.
There's nothing that would prevent them from building a perfectly capable dac/amp combo that would not change the dimensions of the phone too much. IE, it'd be smaller than the phone + dac combo and obviously weigh less. There just isn't an significant enough market for it.
Maybe one day. Maybe. But as you can see from the port removal - that's doubtful. Probably not.
@Andrei: Thanks, agree fully that the removal of the headphone out (3.5 mm) connector is just BS. I hope we customers vote with our dollars, euros, pounds, yen, yuans etc. by boycotting the "improved by omission" (yeah, right) designs. One other aspect of many "premium" phones that drives my mad is that the batteries continue to be too small/low capacity for many even large phablets - Why? There is enough space, and if I buy a 6.5" or larger screen phone, I am obviously not that worried about size and weight. Huawei is a laudable exception. A mobile device that keeps you looking for an outlet so you can recharge it during the day is not really that mobile - it's a tethered portable.
Lastly, an honorable mention of a phone I don't own, but almost bought due to its great value proposition: Xiaomi's Pcophone F1. Yes, no IP68, but at about 1/2 the price of other "flagships", it has a snapdragon 845, decent camera and battery and can trade blows with the best of them in many areas. That and the price make up for not being certified waterproof.
@Andrei: While it may not affect the "flagship" phones here so directly, I'd like to hear your take on Google seemingly taking back their promise for all androidone phones to get at least two years of updates to the latest version of Android - a key reason for many to buy an androidone certified phone. That promise was prominently stated on Gogle's androidone website until two days ago (December 27). The 2 year of OS update promise has since disappeared without any statement why they removed it or what, if anything, replaces it. Could you look into it and let us know what's what? Thanks!
All the space that was used by the audio jack in the iPhone 6s was taken up by a slightly larger haptic feedback module in the iPhone 7. For all the compromises that I go through not having an audio jack, I sure can’t tell the differnce between the iPhone 6s and 7 haptics. It was purely a money move, I see no other reason why.
Nice piece on the headphone jack. It bears repeating as there is less value on actually removing it. There isn't a huge backlash because not everyone uses it which is the reason for Apple's move on this.
You mentioned that Samsung knows how to sell. But its Galaxy S sales have been dropping every year since the S5. It was estimated to be 50-55 million phones that year, while estimates for the S9 series is just 30-35 million. The past two years have had Samsung executives state that sales for the line have been “disappointing”. The division chief has been replaced a year ago, but nothing seems to be changing. That inertia you mention isn’t serving them well.
I've bought s series for years and didn't go samsung this time because the pricing keeps getting higher every year.
Figured I'd try a G7 thinq. So far it's been decent, though I find the low light camera performance disappointing and due to having an lcd screen instead of oled the always on display isn't as bright and requires the backlight (not a big deal but samsung's was nicer). Otherwise I think it's nice.
I just bought it on a whim because of a great offer, I already had V30+. However I am really used to the OLED on V30+ and S9+ and although the screen brightness is unmatched specifically relevant for HDR videos. I dont enjoy using G7 as much as the screen on S9+ with amazing colors and blacks..
Apart from this I feel front camera is a large improvement over V30 and rear camera has lost some modes compared to V30+ and overall has that painting effects like on newer phones such as Oneplus 6. I was also excited for ability to shoot HDR videos , but well difference is not pronounced.
Performance is top notch but much of that is due to SD 845 rather than LG. I really like the slim profile and makes gripping it easy but it's too tall on the flip side to reach corners.
Yup headphone jack is really becoming a pain-point specially with the disappointing audio output via dongles. All my 3 recent phones have headphone jacks and I will probably won't buy one without them.
In terms of audio quality I can see a richer sound on G7 & V30. But only on soundmagic E50 earphones which activates high impedance mode , there seems to be a remarkable difference.
In terms of Bluetooth audio with my Sony 1000XM2 the samsung s9+ outshine the LG duo with louder sound and better quality. I have tried all APX & other LDAC settings but it just sounds low in volume and fidelity on my V30 & G7 ThinQ. Quite disappointed with bluetooth performance.
Dear Andrei , Xiaomi is the 4th largest phone manufacturer, not OnePlus / Google for sure NOT LG. And out of all people for sure know that , so where are Mi6 and MiMix 3 phones that are flagship and again for sure with a much higher market share than those presented. Just sayin...
^This. I already own a 256GB microSD, so any phone manufacturer who wants me to pay $200 or whatever extra for their own built-in memory can forget it. Not going to happen, I'll just find a phone with a microSD slot.
If you would not buy a $250 dollar steak for dinner you should not buy a $1000 phone. Only a small fraction of people should be in the market for a flagship phone...
I am not going to argue author's conclusion. All the points are valid.
In real life, though, not all the points are equally important - and it just happened that G7 compromises work great for me. I'm sure there are others out there that will agree.
I am not heavy phone user. When at home or at work, I will always rather browse, email, YouTube, Facebook... on desktop, laptop or Surface. Phone is my default go-to device only when out and about, so I have gotten to appreciate screen as is - 1000 nits on auto do look brighter in sunlight than my friend's new Mate 20 Pro with its 600-something nits.
Cameras do leave something to be desired. Photography is my hobby so I use dedicated cameras, at least RX100 if not SLR, whenever I can. It still happens that I come upon something worth making a photo without having camera on me, and phone has to do it - so I would honestly like to see improvements being made in Pie update, but - again, for me - these situations are rare and thus tolerable. Eventually, I can shoot RAW and process the hell out of it if I really want to get more details and control over the photos – I am not finding RAW quality of such small sensors worth it, but at least there is option to help when I am let down with in-phone JPGs.
On the other hand, phone is my main music player, and I do appreciate included DAC. I'm usually using it with wired Momentum 2 headsets and it sound really nice. Support for up to 2TB microSD card is also reassuring for anyone who uses phone for media – not that I am anywhere close to this requirement at the moment, in fact 128GB SD covers my current needs… but it is good to have space to grow.
Price was a factor - since I really don't use phone that much - I was looking for good deal, and G7 with Momentum 2 headphones and wireless charger for NZ$1,100 was really good buy. For comparison, 64GB iPhone XR is NZ$1400. Cut the extras which I wanted to get anyway, and my LG cost me NZ$500 – 600. It is great phone for that price range.
Larger battery wouldn’t hurt, but eventually, my worst case usage scenario has left me with around 40% of charge when going to bed. I am usually well over 50% at the end of the day, so battery size and indoor screen consumption aren’t hurting me… at the moment.
And, of course, under all that it is good performing phone with 845 chipset. Has really been reliable so far… I do restart it every 2 weeks, and run cleanup once a month… and didn’t have any unexpected battery drains, freezing, sluggishness… so far.
I heard it alleged that what pushed Apple over the brink with the 3.5mm jack was a large spike in jack-related warranty claims after pushing into China (sorry, can't find the link). I don't have any inside info on that, but at least it makes more sense than the space-saving and waterproofing issues which sound more like excuses rather than reasons.
With regards to the differences in sound quality with good Bluetooth headphones / earbuds vs. a smartphone's analog jack... I have three or four sets of Bluetooth earbuds and probably half a dozen or so over-ear headphones, and while earbuds can be a mixed bag I think you'd have to be very high to not find the newer Bluetooth headphones in general a much, much better audio experience - in some cases (like V-Moda's awkwardly-named "Crossfade 2 Wireless Codex Edition") it starts to approach what I get with a standalone and not-at-all-portable headphone amp. I suspect that this has less to do with the DACs involved than it does the amplification circuitry (there are limits to what can be accomplished without larger capacitors), the battery power available to drive the speakers, and the ability to tune the audio circuitry for specific speakers / drivers rather than trying to work well with everything. Beyond that, switching to cordless earbuds / headphones is like switching to a cordless mouse. You could go back, but... why? I can see it as a cost thing, but other than that modern Bluetooth has more than sufficient bandwidth and low enough latency to support audio quality well beyond what human ears can distinguish. Cords are tangly and tend to be the first thing to break. I'm sure there are plenty of people that love their cords for great reasons, but I would also suspect that the overwhelming majority given a side-by-side comparison would go cordless in a heartbeat.
Wireless is good when I am active... but sometimes, I just want to sit in my favorite chair, read book and listen to music. Wired headset - even if there is no noticeable audio quality advantage - do have benefit of not having to be recharged. Ever.
I already have 4 wireless headsets - 2 for gaming (PC and PS4), PowerBeats for exercising, and Urbanite XL for... actually not using them much, if at all, at the present. And I still reach for Momentum for music listening at home.
But then again, I'm also using wired gaming mouse and mechanical keyboard, too. I don't mind wires if they are not really in a way (as in exercising with wired headphones). Plus, there are already so many batteries to charge... beside those 4x headsets, 2 phones, tablet, laptop, 2 cameras, 3 rechargeable flashlights, ebook reader, 2 BT speakers... remotes... small kitchen appliances... BT handsfree for company car... probably missing quite a few... a bit overwhelming. If I can use something simple that doesn't require to be re-fueled and still provide quality results, why not.
And then, overseas flights. I live in NZ but have many relatives and friends in Europe and US. many flights over 10h, some over 20h. Wired headset, I can use simple adapter to plug them to airplane seat... hate those cheap and often broken plane headsets!... and I can use them all the in-flight time without running out of juice.
I'm against taking the 3.5mm jack away on principle, it's definitely anti consumer and pitching it as a high end benefit is beyond silly, there's just no major upside to taking the option away. On paper however it's just not a deal breaker for me, at all.
The original Google USB-C dongle (not v2 with it's silly high output impedance) and the Apple one both measure and sound better than the jack on my OG Pixel ever did (~3ohm output impedance there probably interacts poorly with my IEM).
I rarely even use the dongles tho, I've been using clip on Bluetooth receivers for years with my wired headphones as it gets rid of the most annoying wire (the one tethering me to my phone) but doesn't tie me to Bluetooth headphones with a built in shelf life.
The newest units with LDAC and innovative DAC implementations (EarStudio ES100 is my current fave) probably sound better than a lot of phones do tbh, despite the lossy compression. OPPO PM-3, V-Moda XS, Etymotic hf5, and Massdrop Plus are my points of reference for mobile headphones/IEM FWIW.
Has Anandtech ever thought about reviewing Bluetooth receivers like these? (Radsone ES100, Fiio micro BTR & BTR3, BlueWave Get, Sony and AT's attempts, etc.) It's pretty hard to come by reliable reviews of what's an underrated product category IMO.
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mmrezaie - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
For me, the main dealbreaker is providing timely OS updates. Even oneplus fails me on this. I got moto x4 and for a bit lower than 250usd, and I have android 9. this cannot be said about most of the phone came to market in 2017.mmrezaie - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
I am not trying to say Motorola is better (far from it). I was just lucky!pjcamp - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
Since Lenovo bought them, updates have ceased to exist.mmrezaie - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
I know for most of their phones but for moto x4 I got android 9 before onplus and samsung phones of the time that I purchased it. I wish there was a way to know before buying these phones if the companies are going to "really" continue to support their phones or not.goatfajitas - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
Spoken as a long time Android fan, to me, in a lot of ways Google has "lost the plot" with Android... However timely updates was never a part of whatever plot that was lost. I am far more concerned about the lack of anything really great update since KitKat. Android 5 was fully 64 bit and buggy, 6 just fixed bugs and I honestly dont care at all about anything added in 7,8,9. It's still buggy, it still bloaty, it's still easily corruptible. What a disappointing 5 years it has been for Android and it's OEM's.Haawser - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
I bought a Mi A2 Lite, which is an Android One device, so it has no bloatware and runs stock Android. I think a lot of OEMs butcher Android so much with skins, background apps and bloatware that they end up a mess. But plain old Pie tastes great so far.goatfajitas - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
I have a Pixel 2XL. Not alot of bloat either but there are still issues. Issues that a 10 year old OS shouldn't still have. I really thought this crap would be fixed by now.EnzoFX - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
This and the underwhelming hardware, especially the Pixel line, which I guess if you must have the stock os (which I alwas did go for) and camera, never felt like a flagship phone, not to merit it's price. Iffy updates and disappointing directions finally got me to switch to iOS.goatfajitas - Tuesday, January 1, 2019 - link
Yeah, the Pixel 3XL is a joke. Nice if it was released at $499, but $899? forget it.nydude25 - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
Same here, with a Moto X4 updated to Pie since before Christmas.And it has a 3.5mm headphone port too.
quiksilvr - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
If the Samsung lineup loses the headphone jack it will all be over. I really wished phone makers would put a USB-C Port on the top and a second on on the bottom so users can mix and match which ones can be used for what (top/bottom for headphones and top/bottom for charging simultaneously, top and bottom for headphones so two people can listen without tangled wires, etc.). The complete lack of USB-C headphones in the market is another major reason why people still want 3.5 mm jacks on their phones. You can't just remove the port and give us a dongle; that is not a solution.zodiacfml - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
I made a similar comment in Gsmarena on their article on dual things on smartphones. I suggested a dual type-c port and Asus narrowly did that with their RoG gaming phone.I doubt companies would. The reason they removed the jack is to save money, so another type-C port will be more expensive than retain the jack
Quantumz0d - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
Exactly, and to Andrei - First of all the Audio port 3.5mm jack piece is excellent, no press site mentions this at all all praise the iPhone and others and fall exactly what the OEMs put their Kool-aid out. Thanks for that.There are a lot of shortcomings or wrongly mentioned points there, likewise how you put a 6T vs 6 and mentioned Apple included a powerful taptic engine in that space. The shortcoming here is Apple taptic engine reason is given because of the hardware chipset design the way how we perceive it. They show the chipset doesn't have space. But somehow the PCB design is always varied among 6 - 6S and 7 and so on, the PCB design will have space, look at how A12 stacked chipset in iPhone X, they folded the chipset and filled with via holes and connected them like OG iPhone. And Apple has the strength and resources to do that, not only that how the Taptic engine size varies among all iPhones and iDevices. Apple blatantly stupidly moved to that because of their user base who only knows Bose / Beats trash tier sound quality and the Made for i device program which has licensing costs and their Wireless Market. Read the below Statista report on the 2016 marketshare on the wireless devices.
https://www.soundguys.com/was-ditching-the-headpho...
Next the Note 9, why there's no mention of the Note 9 PCB and internal design ? while the 6T is a good point but that Chinese company CEO is always a PR face for asking polls and etc while saying the In Display FPS is the reason which is stupid, Meizu 16 has it with exactly same design as Samsung S9 and then the Note 9 packs this massive sized battery with S-Pen and has a same taptic engine like iPhone on the home button on screen, and packs the best in class display panel and almost everything in a phone from Health SpO2 sensor to the damn USB to HDMI output. And why not even look further like Vivo's Nex S smartphone, It has this popout camera with massive 4000mah battery again, with robust construction of the moving part, has a powerful Hi-Fi DAC chip as well from Cirrus Logic, ofc the "King of smartphone Audio LG, with their V30" I have one, V30S ( More on these Hi-Fi in the second comment)
We can clearly see how the marketing beast pays off, how the new DRM/walled garden ont he lack of 3.5mm universal jack war rages on against consumer, they aren't shooting in foot, they are shooting us in the foot forcing us to move to those planned obsolescence stupid BT audio. I had a Bose Soundsport wireless from my friend which sound rubbish vs a simple IEM like Fiio EX1 II due to the fact that it needs LDAC - An expensive license from Sony, aptX only 320Kbps limit, AptXHD ~700kbps data rate and latency issue tons of problems while it's super simple to design a device which can house a simple analog port, it was 1 year old and guess what ? the battery was dead, how are we supposed to iron that out ? Li-Ion technology is a failure on longevity of the devices, Apple is notorious for lack of user intervention on customizing or upgrading or repiring their products and their abject failure on not including the headphone jack in the latest iPad Pro which is structurally flawed worse than the 6 bend gate Touch Disease IC issue. Google should be called out as well, after blasting Apple with their cheap iPhone clone Pixel Gen 1 having a headphone jack and dropping it on Gen 2 saying "enjoy high quality digital sound" - master BS from Google, Audio as you said is analog and no way we can hear digital BS, coming from such prolific company like Google, and going to the peaks like removing it from Slate ? Omega class retardedness and people are fine with it, that Huawei going proprietary SD slot ? worst. Such lame attempts to mimic Apple on ecosystem walls and lockdowns ? and on the audio side on saving a few bucks and asking more for the trash grade wireless sets which are expensive and go to dumpster in 1 year ? Checkout this Verge piece.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/5/16426754/pixel-...
It's a shame how the industry from the OEMs to the damn press sites are so biased towards the companies losing out their first hand reviews or whatever YT videos or articles to generate stupid clicks, a shame Idk how people are happy doing their shilling jobs for companies. Apple is so successful in ruining one of the best things in the history of technology, a pristine proper Audio listening through the 3.5mm analog 100 year old jack which simply does the job well without any issues.
Wish you should have covered it on a vast spectrum of devices rather that 6T but however the 6T is a good device to pick, since it has too much of fan following or highly praised for it's stupidity of under performing specs.
GreenReaper - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
Realistically the answer to the audio question is to a) not buy flagships at all, if possible, and b) only buy phones with 3.5mm sockets. Send a signal through your purchases. I'm doing my part! 😼ahamling27 - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
I'm super pleased with my OnePlus 6. 3.5mm jack, and everything I need in flagship. Now the 6t on the other hand... 😒SkyBill40 - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
Samsung, "providing the best audio experience in the mobile space", is cute. They're nowhere close to the best and multiple tests across the spectrum have shown that rather clearly. They are often outdone by their peninsula rival, LG, who has a significantly better DAC built into their phones.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
This is wrong. LG does have a good DAC, but it has its drawbacks. The quad-dac feature serves just as a way to increase voltage, but it also increases distortion, for most average impedance headphones you are good to just leave it off.Samsung in that regard as an adequate DAC (The Snapdragon versions perform better), but for the average user Adapt Sound will bring an much better experience to your ears than LG, even though LG might win in regards to pure analog reproduction performance out of the 3.5mm jack.
SkyBill40 - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
"...Adapt Sound will bring an much better experience to your ears than LG..." That's highly subjective and a generalization at best. It's funny though how you say it's wrong, yet it has been tested and Samsung has, in fact, been found... lacking by comparison.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
It's a matter of fact and there's nothing subjective about it. Adapt sound will equalise for the actual perceived FR that you hear, and this makes for a bigger difference in experience than the slightly lesser distortion characteristics that LG might be able to offer. Compare the headphone FR as measured by a measurement rig to any random headphone and Samsung through AS will be able to achieve better targets than what the units would be able to reproduce on their own raw on an unaltered input, even if the actual analog input to them would be perfect. The only case in which LG would be superior in this scenario is that if you as a user would have HiFi grade units with perfect characteristics - something that for the vast majority of consumers just isn't attainable.SkyBill40 - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
"Much better experience to your ears" is about as subjective a line as one could drop. Perception is different from ear to ear and person to person. You don't want to accept what you've stated as being subjective and that's fine. I just don't operate under the blanket line of thinking and prefer to not make assumptions or generalizations and try to squeeze people into them.I'll side with you on the statement of the vast majority of users not having high fidelity headphones. I'm sure the data is out there to support that assertion and as disappointing as it may be, it is what it is. Those listeners are missing out on the sound they could be hearing by using a lower grade product. I regularly listen through a pair of Audio Technica DSR7s and they sound outstanding. Clearly not the best thing for commuting or general unobtrusiveness, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I value high quality sound reproduction and my LG V30 provides that in spades.
Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
> "Much better experience to your ears" is about as subjective a line as one could drop. Perception is different from ear to ear and person to person.You don't understand what subjective is.
Because perception thresholds are different for different persons, that is precisely exactly why a mechanism such as AS will be able to produce the single best result out of any audio product, and will be able that will be able to reproduce as near to an intended flat FR as possible.
The AS calibration procedure is a series of binary tests on whether you can hear a low amplitude frequency or not, this is not a subjective evaluation but an empirical determination with a consice answer of yes or no. It doesn't ask you if something sounds good or not, nor does it give you any control over the result, instead it spits a correctly compensated curve based on your hearing.
Shekels - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
The problem with AS is that it's on the S9. It can't power high fidelity headphones so what's the use of it producing a flat sound to your ears if the low grade earphones can't even produce close to accurate sound...SkyBill40 - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
As a side note (and since I can't edit my comments), I understand that this is, in effect, an opinion piece. Given that, perhaps I should have approached my commentary slightly different. My intention was not to argue with you based on the premise of my opinion being better than yours because it's different, but instead to elicit productive conversation on the topic that isn't presented in quite as matter-of-fact as it has been thus far seeing that other testing reviews stand largely contrary to what you've stated here.Thanks for the discussion all the same, Andrei.
Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
My "opinions" here on the topic are based on extensive testing with audio measurement equipment (electrical in terms of analog output, as well physical in terms of SPL out of units) on all the discussed devices. Just because I haven't written it down in a dedicated piece doesn't make it less "matter-of-fact" than anything else you might have seen.Krampus1999 - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
Skybill is correct, it's an opinion piece and opinions are subjective. When researching LG is well known for having some of the best sound quality, just as the Pixels are known for having the best camera's but you let your bias show in both counts.Shekels - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php...I urge you to read this. The LG G7 quad dac offers objectively superior sound quality than the Galaxy S8, and the S9 by a long shot. Saying otherwise as fact is simply wrong. The only reason to use the Quad Dac is with HiFi headphones like Sennheiser HD6XX (bottom line HiFi, 200USD so pretty much anyone can get them) so saying that's the only case where the G7 is better is just ridiculous. That's what it was meant for. Not to power your crappy 50$ earbuds. The S9 couldn't even power the HD6XXs. I've tried that combo and there is 0 bass, highs are screechy and the mids seem like they're 100 yards away. My Xiaomi Mi Mix 2 with it's dongle produces vastly superior audio quality to the S9 with high impedance headphones let alone the G7. Also Adaptive Sound barely changes anything (I can pretty much hear all the frequencies so it doesn't change much) and I noticed it introduced a bit of distortion and things just didn't sound as well when I used it. How the phones sound TO YOU are purely subjective. The output quality is obiective, and the G7 stomps the S9. Saying otherwise would be like saying a Civic can lap the nordschleife faster than a Porsche 911 GT2. You might like to drive the Civic more and feel like it drives nicer, but it sure as hell gets it's a$$ wooped in a race against the 911 GT2
aswool - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
Saying the Aqstic DAC in the Snapdragon devices is better than the Cirrus Logic is flat out wrong.However, I'm curious what lead you to that conclusion.
Objectively speaking, the DAC is the only redeeming part of the Exynos S9 this year.
Andrei Frumusanu - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
I measured the Snapdragon S9's to have better output power and lower THD than the Exynos S9's. In fact the Exynos has pretty much worse output than a vast majority of devices this year.Qualcomm has made great strides in the ASoCs the last couple of years.
Quantumz0d - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
Sorry I don't see how you see the distortion on the LG Audio with the ESS9218P DAC chip is a HiFi SoC which is only of its kind basically a patented hardware with multiple channels of Audio processing functionality of a Delta Sigma DAC from my knowledge with superb clarity, I might not know much of its hardware functionality, like you might have known. And there's a huge misconception among people that you need to trick it to high impedance mode and all for the QuadDAC to work which is wrong, Also how LG did the job on maintaining only lowest level DAC channels with a normal gear and go up with 3 modes (I think the primary reason is battery consumption by the ESS SoC due to it's supreme powerful nature as all in one)This is an AA piece on the LG V20 DAC which is good to learn stuff.
https://www.androidauthority.com/lg-v20-quad-dac-e...
But here are my impressions of it, vs my iPod 5.5G / iPod 6G / SGS i9000 with Voodoo mod all with one IEM Dunu DN 1000 (I have tried VSonic GR07 BE they were great but have Bass lacking severely and IE80s which have bad Audio due to Veil, the Triple Driver is very good in DN1Ks, Joker's theheadphonelist review is really great, checkout his site, his reviews are very very good and would apply to many)
https://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/dunu...
iPod 5.5G is very famous for the Wolfson DACs house sound due to it's lush 3Desque sound and the 6G moves away with a more "accurate" sonic performance making it fatiguing due to the metallic effect it has its powered by Cirrus Logic due to tightening of the Bass vs the 5.5Gs Audio performance.
The i9000 is one of the rare phones which has a full fledged Audio performance on a custom ROM, huge thanks to Supercurio, famous Android Developer for the Audio mod on it thanks to Wolfson drivers for the DAC chips. This paved way for the SGS III to have some similar functionality. The i9000 has all the settings from Dynamic Range to the Bass customization from the Mid / Sub Bass levels and the Analog DAC bypass processing for everything on phone. However the i9000 DAC performance falls short vs the iPod 5.5G due to the latter having more spacious soundstage allowing for more airy performance but it's not bad in any means it can be classified as warm signature, the clarity is superb on the iPods as a reason and very much engaging sound. Both are running 200GB SD cards. Even iPod as well, thanks to aftermarket modding community that device has more shelf life than any technology product I've came across with again a parametric EQ from Rockbox, OSS Linux OS. Mind you this is before Cirrus Logic bought them out sadly.
I was eyeing for a device which has good specs and feels great in hand that devices is none other than LG V30. It's very solid piece has exact dimensions as an OP3 yet has more in everything, the width is nor narrow and stupid like Samsung or iPhones and the camera doesn't have any bumps has this wide angle and USB to HDMI and lot.
The HiFi quad DAC, the end game. Read a lot and was skeptical, I've experimented various Digital Filters which I think is a good option but the presets are bad IMHO, The sound is simply magical, same IEMs, Dunu DN 1000, The Visceral deep bass is just pleasing and solid clarity the issue was sibilance due to TWFK drivers and more low end emphasis, mind you the clarity is still great it stomps over RHA MA750s and downside was little congested mids and sharp highs on all the devices I have. Perhaps the iPod 6G needs a revisit But the LG V30 just drives them beautifully to my surprise the fatiguing factor due to TWFKs was smoothed out and left with polished lush deep sub bass, a sub-woofer in ear with rich texture sound for all frequencies and retaining the clarity the mids were pleasing and highs as well, extremely clear sound, melodic, a totally immersive eargasmic pleasure the V30 delivers vs those Wolfson DAPs esp the iPod 5.5G which I developed a bond with, the mids and highs are so well textured and spread out to let you enjoy all those tunes on the V30. I would like to let you guys know that I tried all HIM (High Impedance Mode) and AUX modes through tavil XML files from WhiskeyOmega at XDA to trick the DAC as many want with the DN1K, And I was expecting something but ruined the sound since it reduces the volume and even raising one point up is resulting in bad quality to my ears, I think LG Engineers did a perfect job with the 3 modes of Normal, AUX, HIM as demanded by the headset. Forcing the headphone output made it sound uneven, sharp and unpleasant to even ramp up the volume a bit also idk how people are magically experiencing higher quality Audio, I already lost a lot of my hearing due to IEMs, a gain switch are what those mods are to my ears.. Did A/B testing with my DAPs and the V30 is the clear winner.
Plus the mention you said turn off, the DAC switch works by default with the LG phones, the switch on/off will have huge impact only to the HIM gear like my HD 6XX ( Only phone which could drive them, however the AMP needs more power and phone is hard, a Schiit Stack would do wonders here) The DAC kicks in the moment we plug the earphones into the 3.5mm jack, the Digital filters will be working along with only few processing lanes with the low impedance gear until 30Ohm and the AUX mode kicks in delivering the audio output as needed by the higher impedance gear and then the 50OHm+ HIM mode kicks in driving all lanes in the 9218P chip.
This post on XDA explains in a better way about the DAC modes I hope..
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78...
I've listened to the SD820 and SD835 sound and they are hollow sounding both in a car and earphone line out. Also the Adaptive Audio is done by HTC10 as well, and that phone HTC10 outshines every phone from Samsung and LGV30 beats it as well, this is according to a lot of Head-Fi'ers. V40 is having some discrepancies due to the Meridian tuning as its lost all it's lush sound for more neutral/clinical sound, See it's not always numbers. Since this topic is highly subjective it's hard to conclude. Also an important note, the DAC itself doesn't matter the Implementation matters MOST, the Sabre ESS chips are notorious for their glaring clinical sound the LGV30 is not in that. It's a wonderful implementation.
But here's another Head-Fi thread on the smartphone Audiophile stuff. Also the ESS9128 and ESS chips are used in highly appreciated gear which is rivaled by the solid DACs from Asahi Kasei Micro, AKM4490 which is in the ZTE Axon 7 and runs on Lineage OS as well. Also there in Schiit Modi and Jotunhiem / iBasso too.
On an ending note,
For wired sets, Look at RHA (MA750), iBasso (IT01), Alpha Delta (AD01- Dual DD driver), Fiio EX II/Dunu Titan1 ($50, Fantastic IEM), Yamaha EPH 100, TFZ King II, and the superb performer - VSonic GR07 BE/Classic which beats IE80 (veiled sound due to mid bass leak) and a lot of higher priced IEMs but less Bass rest all perform solid. Go up a bit high for more dynamic sound and multi driver earphones like Fiio FH1 or F9, Dunu DN1000/2000, 1More Triple/Quad, Shures no BS lossy or lag or any gimmicks and keep them for longer period and high quality, with supreme sonic audio performance with Multi Driver setups. I'd quote the beast FLC 8N for its super dynamic tunable hardware like the RHA T20s and AKG K3003, Shure SE846. But far more affordable and bang for buck and TOTL vs those puny stupid Jaybird or Airpods with stupid cheap drivers.
Quantumz0d - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-smartphone-fo...Forgot to post this.
Teckk - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
Andrei, wasn't the headphone jack removal in OnePlus 6T attributed to the increased battery capacity or that could've been done even by keeping the 3.5mm in place?Andrei Frumusanu - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
The internal dimensions below the battery are identical in both phones, see the pictures.The battery capacity increase more than anything came from it being 0.4mm thicker.
Teckk - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
Wow, cool, thanks for clarifying!Remember reading elsewhere so that is wrong then.
watzupken - Friday, December 28, 2018 - link
For iPhones, while the hardware is alright, Apple is seriously lacking in terms of innovation. They have become really sloppy over the least few years, ie, same design used for more than 2 years, incremental feature improvements that is mostly playing catch up with competitors. I will not be surprised they may reused the same design in 2019 with just upgrades mainly to SOC and slightly improved cams.haukionkannel - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
Apple has always use same design Many year... it is nothing new and it is nothing bad.The idea is to find good funtional form and keep I several years and improve the hardware. Is very good concept actually.
Now we will have period of iPhoneX looking phones for a while. Most likely several years and after that Apple will make new ”chell”...
Lau_Tech - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
If the S10 has no headphone jack or is priced exorbitantly I will go back and get a S9.As a HTC 10 owner, which is no slouch itself, I've listened to the Note9 and S9 and they are clearly better.
Lau_Tech - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
Also Andrei, if you've done the measurements, let's see them! This kind of data is worth it's weight in gold online. A short one page article wld be very welcomeImpulses - Tuesday, January 15, 2019 - link
Agreed.sonny73n - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
I see a lot of people still like to have the 3.5mm audio jack but if they just step up a bit more in the audio world, they’ll surely see that 3.5mm jack is useless.In order to have the best audio listening experience, one needs to have a high quality audio source (lossless), a good built-in or external DAC and high grade speakers (headphones in this case). But smartphones aren’t powerful enough to drive high grade headphones, you would need an external amps to truly maximize your listening experience. Most high end headphones are high impedance. Even the low impedance ATH-M50x can tremendously benefits from an external amps. And because the external amps alone and one with DAC aren’t much different in price, it’d be simpler to feed the amps+DAC the digital bits thru USB or lightning cable and let the amp+DAC produce a cleaner analog sound. There’s no need for 3.5mm jack if you’re into better sound. Other than music, there’s always Bluetooth headsets for your convenience.
Smartphones are overrated and overpriced. Their marketing gimmicks will never work on me.
igavus - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
I'll agree with you on the overpriced issue, but, on the jack you're wrong.There's nothing that would prevent them from building a perfectly capable dac/amp combo that would not change the dimensions of the phone too much. IE, it'd be smaller than the phone + dac combo and obviously weigh less. There just isn't an significant enough market for it.
Maybe one day. Maybe. But as you can see from the port removal - that's doubtful. Probably not.
Impulses - Tuesday, January 15, 2019 - link
High end IEM don't have very demanding amplification needs.eastcoast_pete - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
@Andrei: Thanks, agree fully that the removal of the headphone out (3.5 mm) connector is just BS. I hope we customers vote with our dollars, euros, pounds, yen, yuans etc. by boycotting the "improved by omission" (yeah, right) designs.One other aspect of many "premium" phones that drives my mad is that the batteries continue to be too small/low capacity for many even large phablets - Why? There is enough space, and if I buy a 6.5" or larger screen phone, I am obviously not that worried about size and weight. Huawei is a laudable exception. A mobile device that keeps you looking for an outlet so you can recharge it during the day is not really that mobile - it's a tethered portable.
Lastly, an honorable mention of a phone I don't own, but almost bought due to its great value proposition: Xiaomi's Pcophone F1. Yes, no IP68, but at about 1/2 the price of other "flagships", it has a snapdragon 845, decent camera and battery and can trade blows with the best of them in many areas. That and the price make up for not being certified waterproof.
Notmyusualid - Thursday, January 3, 2019 - link
@ eastcoast_pete - agree, bought both my parents Pocophone F1's.They don't like the 2-D type of icons it ships with, but are otherwise very pleased with them.
pjcamp - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
Not just the audio jack. SD cards, OS updates, locked bootloaders, shitty battery life -- premium seems to mean the fewest options possible.Haawser - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
'Premium' just means paying one.eastcoast_pete - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
@Andrei: While it may not affect the "flagship" phones here so directly, I'd like to hear your take on Google seemingly taking back their promise for all androidone phones to get at least two years of updates to the latest version of Android - a key reason for many to buy an androidone certified phone. That promise was prominently stated on Gogle's androidone website until two days ago (December 27). The 2 year of OS update promise has since disappeared without any statement why they removed it or what, if anything, replaces it. Could you look into it and let us know what's what? Thanks!LeftSide - Saturday, December 29, 2018 - link
All the space that was used by the audio jack in the iPhone 6s was taken up by a slightly larger haptic feedback module in the iPhone 7. For all the compromises that I go through not having an audio jack, I sure can’t tell the differnce between the iPhone 6s and 7 haptics.It was purely a money move, I see no other reason why.
zodiacfml - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
Nice piece on the headphone jack. It bears repeating as there is less value on actually removing it.There isn't a huge backlash because not everyone uses it which is the reason for Apple's move on this.
melgross - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
You mentioned that Samsung knows how to sell. But its Galaxy S sales have been dropping every year since the S5. It was estimated to be 50-55 million phones that year, while estimates for the S9 series is just 30-35 million. The past two years have had Samsung executives state that sales for the line have been “disappointing”. The division chief has been replaced a year ago, but nothing seems to be changing. That inertia you mention isn’t serving them well.andrewaggb - Sunday, December 30, 2018 - link
I've bought s series for years and didn't go samsung this time because the pricing keeps getting higher every year.Figured I'd try a G7 thinq. So far it's been decent, though I find the low light camera performance disappointing and due to having an lcd screen instead of oled the always on display isn't as bright and requires the backlight (not a big deal but samsung's was nicer). Otherwise I think it's nice.
sandy105 - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
I just bought it on a whim because of a great offer, I already had V30+.However I am really used to the OLED on V30+ and S9+ and although the screen brightness is unmatched specifically relevant for HDR videos. I dont enjoy using G7 as much as the screen on S9+ with amazing colors and blacks..
Apart from this I feel front camera is a large improvement over V30 and rear camera has lost some modes compared to V30+ and overall has that painting effects like on newer phones such as Oneplus 6. I was also excited for ability to shoot HDR videos , but well difference is not pronounced.
Performance is top notch but much of that is due to SD 845 rather than LG. I really like the slim profile and makes gripping it easy but it's too tall on the flip side to reach corners.
sandy105 - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
By slim i meant width because of taller screen ratio, its actually lot thicker than V30.sandy105 - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
Yup headphone jack is really becoming a pain-point specially with the disappointing audio output via dongles. All my 3 recent phones have headphone jacks and I will probably won't buy one without them.In terms of audio quality I can see a richer sound on G7 & V30. But only on soundmagic E50 earphones which activates high impedance mode , there seems to be a remarkable difference.
In terms of Bluetooth audio with my Sony 1000XM2 the samsung s9+ outshine the LG duo with louder sound and better quality. I have tried all APX & other LDAC settings but it just sounds low in volume and fidelity on my V30 & G7 ThinQ. Quite disappointed with bluetooth performance.
SkyBill40 - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
The BT doesn't take advantage of the HIFI quad DAC. You need a wired connection for that.Impulses - Tuesday, January 15, 2019 - link
Bluetooth audio really shouldn't differ between phones unless the phone is applying some EQ/DSP to the stream before handing it off...RaduR - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
Dear Andrei , Xiaomi is the 4th largest phone manufacturer, not OnePlus / Google for sure NOT LG.And out of all people for sure know that , so where are Mi6 and MiMix 3 phones that are flagship and again for sure with a much higher market share than those presented.
Just sayin...
RaduR - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
Xiaomi Mi8 sorry ! Mi6 is last year ...Retired Budget Gamer - Monday, December 31, 2018 - link
Samsung got me to spend double what I normally spend on a smartphone because of its no compromise specifications (except removable battery).Arbie - Tuesday, January 1, 2019 - link
I just bought a Samsung S9 *because* it takes microSD and has a 3.5mm jack. I won't buy a phone that doesn't.Haawser - Wednesday, January 2, 2019 - link
^This. I already own a 256GB microSD, so any phone manufacturer who wants me to pay $200 or whatever extra for their own built-in memory can forget it. Not going to happen, I'll just find a phone with a microSD slot.Gunbuster - Wednesday, January 2, 2019 - link
If you would not buy a $250 dollar steak for dinner you should not buy a $1000 phone. Only a small fraction of people should be in the market for a flagship phone...nikon133 - Thursday, January 3, 2019 - link
Eh, I have that cursed LG G7 ThinQ. I am not going to argue author's conclusion. All the points are valid.
In real life, though, not all the points are equally important - and it just happened that G7 compromises work great for me. I'm sure there are others out there that will agree.
I am not heavy phone user. When at home or at work, I will always rather browse, email, YouTube, Facebook... on desktop, laptop or Surface. Phone is my default go-to device only when out and about, so I have gotten to appreciate screen as is - 1000 nits on auto do look brighter in sunlight than my friend's new Mate 20 Pro with its 600-something nits.
Cameras do leave something to be desired. Photography is my hobby so I use dedicated cameras, at least RX100 if not SLR, whenever I can. It still happens that I come upon something worth making a photo without having camera on me, and phone has to do it - so I would honestly like to see improvements being made in Pie update, but - again, for me - these situations are rare and thus tolerable. Eventually, I can shoot RAW and process the hell out of it if I really want to get more details and control over the photos – I am not finding RAW quality of such small sensors worth it, but at least there is option to help when I am let down with in-phone JPGs.
On the other hand, phone is my main music player, and I do appreciate included DAC. I'm usually using it with wired Momentum 2 headsets and it sound really nice. Support for up to 2TB microSD card is also reassuring for anyone who uses phone for media – not that I am anywhere close to this requirement at the moment, in fact 128GB SD covers my current needs… but it is good to have space to grow.
Price was a factor - since I really don't use phone that much - I was looking for good deal, and G7 with Momentum 2 headphones and wireless charger for NZ$1,100 was really good buy. For comparison, 64GB iPhone XR is NZ$1400. Cut the extras which I wanted to get anyway, and my LG cost me NZ$500 – 600. It is great phone for that price range.
Larger battery wouldn’t hurt, but eventually, my worst case usage scenario has left me with around 40% of charge when going to bed. I am usually well over 50% at the end of the day, so battery size and indoor screen consumption aren’t hurting me… at the moment.
And, of course, under all that it is good performing phone with 845 chipset. Has really been reliable so far… I do restart it every 2 weeks, and run cleanup once a month… and didn’t have any unexpected battery drains, freezing, sluggishness… so far.
Overall, quite happy.
ErikTheRed - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
I heard it alleged that what pushed Apple over the brink with the 3.5mm jack was a large spike in jack-related warranty claims after pushing into China (sorry, can't find the link). I don't have any inside info on that, but at least it makes more sense than the space-saving and waterproofing issues which sound more like excuses rather than reasons.With regards to the differences in sound quality with good Bluetooth headphones / earbuds vs. a smartphone's analog jack... I have three or four sets of Bluetooth earbuds and probably half a dozen or so over-ear headphones, and while earbuds can be a mixed bag I think you'd have to be very high to not find the newer Bluetooth headphones in general a much, much better audio experience - in some cases (like V-Moda's awkwardly-named "Crossfade 2 Wireless Codex Edition") it starts to approach what I get with a standalone and not-at-all-portable headphone amp. I suspect that this has less to do with the DACs involved than it does the amplification circuitry (there are limits to what can be accomplished without larger capacitors), the battery power available to drive the speakers, and the ability to tune the audio circuitry for specific speakers / drivers rather than trying to work well with everything. Beyond that, switching to cordless earbuds / headphones is like switching to a cordless mouse. You could go back, but... why? I can see it as a cost thing, but other than that modern Bluetooth has more than sufficient bandwidth and low enough latency to support audio quality well beyond what human ears can distinguish. Cords are tangly and tend to be the first thing to break. I'm sure there are plenty of people that love their cords for great reasons, but I would also suspect that the overwhelming majority given a side-by-side comparison would go cordless in a heartbeat.
nikon133 - Wednesday, January 9, 2019 - link
Wireless is good when I am active... but sometimes, I just want to sit in my favorite chair, read book and listen to music. Wired headset - even if there is no noticeable audio quality advantage - do have benefit of not having to be recharged. Ever.I already have 4 wireless headsets - 2 for gaming (PC and PS4), PowerBeats for exercising, and Urbanite XL for... actually not using them much, if at all, at the present. And I still reach for Momentum for music listening at home.
But then again, I'm also using wired gaming mouse and mechanical keyboard, too. I don't mind wires if they are not really in a way (as in exercising with wired headphones). Plus, there are already so many batteries to charge... beside those 4x headsets, 2 phones, tablet, laptop, 2 cameras, 3 rechargeable flashlights, ebook reader, 2 BT speakers... remotes... small kitchen appliances... BT handsfree for company car... probably missing quite a few... a bit overwhelming. If I can use something simple that doesn't require to be re-fueled and still provide quality results, why not.
And then, overseas flights. I live in NZ but have many relatives and friends in Europe and US. many flights over 10h, some over 20h. Wired headset, I can use simple adapter to plug them to airplane seat... hate those cheap and often broken plane headsets!... and I can use them all the in-flight time without running out of juice.
Impulses - Tuesday, January 15, 2019 - link
I'm against taking the 3.5mm jack away on principle, it's definitely anti consumer and pitching it as a high end benefit is beyond silly, there's just no major upside to taking the option away. On paper however it's just not a deal breaker for me, at all.The original Google USB-C dongle (not v2 with it's silly high output impedance) and the Apple one both measure and sound better than the jack on my OG Pixel ever did (~3ohm output impedance there probably interacts poorly with my IEM).
I rarely even use the dongles tho, I've been using clip on Bluetooth receivers for years with my wired headphones as it gets rid of the most annoying wire (the one tethering me to my phone) but doesn't tie me to Bluetooth headphones with a built in shelf life.
The newest units with LDAC and innovative DAC implementations (EarStudio ES100 is my current fave) probably sound better than a lot of phones do tbh, despite the lossy compression. OPPO PM-3, V-Moda XS, Etymotic hf5, and Massdrop Plus are my points of reference for mobile headphones/IEM FWIW.
Has Anandtech ever thought about reviewing Bluetooth receivers like these? (Radsone ES100, Fiio micro BTR & BTR3, BlueWave Get, Sony and AT's attempts, etc.) It's pretty hard to come by reliable reviews of what's an underrated product category IMO.