I feel bad for Nvidia that the game that was going to be the RTX flagship turned out to be so bad that it was on sale for half off in under a week. Yet its the only one they got so in it goes with the bundle.
Feel bad? They're still raking in money. As far as the game goes. It's not the only game to get immense backlash lately. D2, SW BFII, FO76, BOP4, etc. The publishers are getting greedy with micro transactions, stripped content for the initial price DLC costing 3 times the game price locked away on the disc, and all kinds of bullshit. Their customers have had enough.
BF series has always embraced new tech. Previously, BF4 came out with Mantle/Vulcan support. From my understanding, they didn't have long to enable RT. Future iterations may be able to deliver but right now its not. Also the game does suck. People want BF. They don't want a soulless ginger with a cyberpunk arm running around on small maps with grinder style choke points. The can get that on CoD/BOPS#.
The game industry is different from, say, SSDs or RAM which is basically a commodity and easily substituted with each other. You can't simply compete on price and replace a good game with a bad game for a few dollars less
There are game companies that don't do the things EA, Activision/Blizzard, Ubisoft, are accused of and do well. CD Projekt is by far the best example. They're proof you an put out a quality game, make a killing without resorting to micro transactions, pay 2 win and other nonsense in a full priced game.
It's the modern world of social media - everything is so polarised, complete love or complete hate. Either it's an amazing game and we all love it, or we all have to hate it.
I've seen the RT on vs off and I'm just not impressed enough to think the RTX is worth while. I'd recommend saving the money and get a 10 series card instead. Cheaper, just as fast in regular games. 2080Ti is actually faster but the price premium isn't worth it IMO. TBS if you live in lets say Germany and your house is oil heated, I'd recommend a blower style Vega 64. Theyre pretty cheap, the game bundle is nice and it will keep your legs warm. ;)
If Nvidia had a GTX 2080 (so without RTX features), I think I'd be all over that. I'm on a 1060 and would love to jump to a highend card but going to a 1080/1080ti is just too much for the performance and the 2080/2080ti is waaaaay too much for the performance.
I would really like to buy a 2080. When theres a game included I can sell for $50, thats even better. But why should I buy a graphics card that is only a little faster than a 1080ti, for the price of a 1080ti, but with 3 GB less than a 1080ti? Do they think I am stupid? I am using a 1070 right now and its 8 GB get filled often on newer games, and even many older games, like Rise of the Tomb Raider.
Can you resell the code at all? IIRC both NVidia and AMD have both tried to stop it by locking the activation and link to steam/etc account to the computer where the card that the game came with.
BF5's poor ray tracing performance (separate quality overall) is proving my hunch:
Turing cards won't EVER be that useful for raytracing. The real benefit of raytracing comes when designers can plan on it from the start, retrofitting it, but by the time that those games are out, they'll be targeting whatever Nvidia calls their 7nm successor to Turing.
Perhaps you will be proven right but I can't see how you can claim that you already have been. Even if 30 games were out with poor ray tracing performance it wouldn't confirm that, because either ray tracing might always cause a big hit to performance or when new games come out with better coded ray tracing it could very well target Turing hardware. And perhaps to get better coded ray tracing it only takes more experience with ray tracing to better implement it and not "planning it from the start". Additionally, maybe it will be possible to offer low, medium, and high ray tracing settings that are useful and can be used to target different hardware effectively. All these things are just unknown.
Personally, I think ray tracing will continue to make a significant hit to performance. Gamers are going to have to choose if they want to play at 120 fps or they want ray tracing effects. You won't get both until a future generation and in that generation you'll probably have to choose between 170 fps and ray tracing effects, or whatever.
They won't do that because Nv and Intel want profit margins as much as they can instead of putting pricing at "sane" levels" even though both them have bitched that not as many selling as they would like and they may have to increase price because they need to sell X to "break even"
Just imagine the crudshow people would deal with if their GPU ends up being even higher price...Nv does not want to take the hit, they want X profit margin so the AIB ultimately is the one to "suffer" and most of them are not making $$$ hand overfist like Nv is in comparison.
More folks would likely buy their products if they were priced to sell (even if profit margin was not as high...not sell any vs sell more for a bit less........hmmmm)
"It is the way they try and play you but end up playing themselves" ^.^
Seems to me that DLSS 'up-scaling' is the proverbial pig-in-a-poke. It reminds me of 25 years past when nVidia would accuse ATI of dropping pixels. ATI would laugh because nVidia was the 'Pixel-Dropping King'. No problem for me if folks want to pay $800 (and up!) for '4KDLSS' @ an up-scaled 1440p, or ray-tracing, for that matter.
Yep. After seeing how ugly narrow lines look with DLSS (cables, mesh, ropes, etc) I wouldnt use it anyway, no matter how much performance it gives me compared to "conventional" AA. I use AA to make lines like that visible in the first place. It makes obvious how much DLSS is really dropping.
No love for SFF buyers of their Low Profile cards at all! Nvidia comes out with 1050 card that are crippled in features, fan continuously run and cannot stop even when not need and price above normal size cards too!
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Cellar Door - Thursday, November 29, 2018 - link
How about Nvidia includes a free copy of DLSS.Sttm - Thursday, November 29, 2018 - link
I feel bad for Nvidia that the game that was going to be the RTX flagship turned out to be so bad that it was on sale for half off in under a week. Yet its the only one they got so in it goes with the bundle.Manch - Thursday, November 29, 2018 - link
Feel bad? They're still raking in money. As far as the game goes. It's not the only game to get immense backlash lately. D2, SW BFII, FO76, BOP4, etc. The publishers are getting greedy with micro transactions, stripped content for the initial price DLC costing 3 times the game price locked away on the disc, and all kinds of bullshit. Their customers have had enough.BF series has always embraced new tech. Previously, BF4 came out with Mantle/Vulcan support. From my understanding, they didn't have long to enable RT. Future iterations may be able to deliver but right now its not. Also the game does suck. People want BF. They don't want a soulless ginger with a cyberpunk arm running around on small maps with grinder style choke points. The can get that on CoD/BOPS#.
JeffFlanagan - Friday, November 30, 2018 - link
I don't know that it's greed. There are so many people making games now, that I fear we're heading into an industry crash.Bravadu - Friday, November 30, 2018 - link
The game industry is different from, say, SSDs or RAM which is basically a commodity and easily substituted with each other. You can't simply compete on price and replace a good game with a bad game for a few dollars lessManch - Saturday, December 1, 2018 - link
There are game companies that don't do the things EA, Activision/Blizzard, Ubisoft, are accused of and do well. CD Projekt is by far the best example. They're proof you an put out a quality game, make a killing without resorting to micro transactions, pay 2 win and other nonsense in a full priced game.Dribble - Monday, December 3, 2018 - link
It's the modern world of social media - everything is so polarised, complete love or complete hate. Either it's an amazing game and we all love it, or we all have to hate it.Violet Giraffe - Wednesday, December 5, 2018 - link
Well said, and an interesting point to think about.Manch - Thursday, November 29, 2018 - link
I've seen the RT on vs off and I'm just not impressed enough to think the RTX is worth while. I'd recommend saving the money and get a 10 series card instead. Cheaper, just as fast in regular games. 2080Ti is actually faster but the price premium isn't worth it IMO. TBS if you live in lets say Germany and your house is oil heated, I'd recommend a blower style Vega 64. Theyre pretty cheap, the game bundle is nice and it will keep your legs warm. ;)jordanclock - Friday, November 30, 2018 - link
If Nvidia had a GTX 2080 (so without RTX features), I think I'd be all over that. I'm on a 1060 and would love to jump to a highend card but going to a 1080/1080ti is just too much for the performance and the 2080/2080ti is waaaaay too much for the performance.Beaver M. - Thursday, November 29, 2018 - link
I would really like to buy a 2080. When theres a game included I can sell for $50, thats even better.But why should I buy a graphics card that is only a little faster than a 1080ti, for the price of a 1080ti, but with 3 GB less than a 1080ti?
Do they think I am stupid? I am using a 1070 right now and its 8 GB get filled often on newer games, and even many older games, like Rise of the Tomb Raider.
Manch - Thursday, November 29, 2018 - link
Let's be real man. You aint selling that shit show BF5 for $50! :PDanNeely - Friday, November 30, 2018 - link
Can you resell the code at all? IIRC both NVidia and AMD have both tried to stop it by locking the activation and link to steam/etc account to the computer where the card that the game came with.Beaver M. - Saturday, December 1, 2018 - link
Last game I got with my 1070 (Gears of War 4) I sold for $50 without issues.sing_electric - Friday, November 30, 2018 - link
BF5's poor ray tracing performance (separate quality overall) is proving my hunch:Turing cards won't EVER be that useful for raytracing. The real benefit of raytracing comes when designers can plan on it from the start, retrofitting it, but by the time that those games are out, they'll be targeting whatever Nvidia calls their 7nm successor to Turing.
Yojimbo - Friday, November 30, 2018 - link
Perhaps you will be proven right but I can't see how you can claim that you already have been. Even if 30 games were out with poor ray tracing performance it wouldn't confirm that, because either ray tracing might always cause a big hit to performance or when new games come out with better coded ray tracing it could very well target Turing hardware. And perhaps to get better coded ray tracing it only takes more experience with ray tracing to better implement it and not "planning it from the start". Additionally, maybe it will be possible to offer low, medium, and high ray tracing settings that are useful and can be used to target different hardware effectively. All these things are just unknown.Personally, I think ray tracing will continue to make a significant hit to performance. Gamers are going to have to choose if they want to play at 120 fps or they want ray tracing effects. You won't get both until a future generation and in that generation you'll probably have to choose between 170 fps and ray tracing effects, or whatever.
Gunbuster - Friday, November 30, 2018 - link
Or how about another proven strategy to sell more cards for the holiday? Reduce the price...Dragonstongue - Friday, November 30, 2018 - link
They won't do that because Nv and Intel want profit margins as much as they can instead of putting pricing at "sane" levels" even though both them have bitched that not as many selling as they would like and they may have to increase price because they need to sell X to "break even"Just imagine the crudshow people would deal with if their GPU ends up being even higher price...Nv does not want to take the hit, they want X profit margin so the AIB ultimately is the one to "suffer" and most of them are not making $$$ hand overfist like Nv is in comparison.
More folks would likely buy their products if they were priced to sell (even if profit margin was not as high...not sell any vs sell more for a bit less........hmmmm)
"It is the way they try and play you but end up playing themselves" ^.^
Smell This - Friday, November 30, 2018 - link
Seems to me that DLSS 'up-scaling' is the proverbial pig-in-a-poke. It reminds me of 25 years past when nVidia would accuse ATI of dropping pixels. ATI would laugh because nVidia was the 'Pixel-Dropping King'. No problem for me if folks want to pay $800 (and up!) for '4KDLSS' @ an up-scaled 1440p, or ray-tracing, for that matter."Caveat Emptor," indeed.
Beaver M. - Sunday, December 2, 2018 - link
Yep. After seeing how ugly narrow lines look with DLSS (cables, mesh, ropes, etc) I wouldnt use it anyway, no matter how much performance it gives me compared to "conventional" AA.I use AA to make lines like that visible in the first place.
It makes obvious how much DLSS is really dropping.
Harry_Wild - Monday, December 17, 2018 - link
No love for SFF buyers of their Low Profile cards at all! Nvidia comes out with 1050 card that are crippled in features, fan continuously run and cannot stop even when not need and price above normal size cards too!