$1000? Who is buying these things? I'm sure it has a great screen and supports touch/pen input but I have a hard time figuring out who is paying $1000 for 4GB RAM, 128GB storage, and a hamstrung Windows 10 install that is locked down to Windows Store apps.
I could see it worth it had a real x86 based process - but an emulated systems which Microsoft themselves does not trust enough to make a Microsoft Surface system with it. I have the original Samsung TabPro S with Intel Core M process which likely runs x86 programs faster than this thing. I yet to see Windows for Snapdragon device in real life.
Windows runs natively, there is no emulation unless you download an x86 application. I can certainly see myself getting a device like this for email and browsing on the move - better than a plain tablet, and at 20 hours it's more efficient than a typical x86 laptop.
"Windows runs natively, there is no emulation unless you download an x86 application."
Ok you can run as many as Windows 10 Apps natively you want. But here is keep thing why this is basically Windows RT 2.0, Microsoft does not even have a device on this stuff.
Well maybe they will - the current models are way too expensive (particularly the i7 ones at well over $2000 with keyboard) and too power hungry (~8 hours), so using a 7nm Cortex-A76 based CPU for these would be a much better choice.
Microsoft is notorious for making their device well over price. Plus by the time 7nm models of ARM are available, Intel will have CPU's that would much better and longer battery life than the ARM cpu. Keep in mind when you mention $2000 Surface Pro A similar equip Surface Pro actually still has twice the memory and storage - and is less than $1000. With modern i5 CPU, it will like have more performance than ARM cpu - especially with native application. Keep in mind that Windows for ARM does not run 64 bit applications.
It would extremely naïve to think that Intel is not researching and will not have something significantly better in 2019.
7nm Arm chips are already on the market right now. The cheapest Surface Pro costs at least $1100 with keyboard (https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/microsof... ), and that's just an i5 with half the battery life of this, so not equal specs at all.
It's extremely naïve to believe that Intel will have some magic chips in 2019 to save the day - man you will be so disappointed...
"It would extremely naïve to think that Intel is not researching and will not have something significantly better in 2019." The low power Ice Lake CPUs (made at 10nm+ and with expected quite better power efficiency than that sole Core-i3 Cannon Lake 15W CPU with disabled iGPU Intel released a while back) are expected to be released in late 2019, not earlier. "Late 2019" might then slip into "early 2020" if Intel faces new problems, which can certainly not be ruled out.
Intel at 10nm+ fixed the manufacturing issues and low yields they had with 10nm (with the help of ASML), while Ice Lake is their first new architecture since Skylake, so additional power efficiency and performance is expected from both fronts. The question is if they are going to honor their (latest) schedule this time or slip again. They say they are merely testing and validating the fixes, so if that's true and was not BS to keep their stock from falling further, we might indeed see Ice Lake CPUs, from bottom to top-mainstream (the HEDT ones will be released a bit later, while the server ones almost a year later) in Q4 2019.
By your logic, Microsoft doesn't trust Intels desktop CPU's either.. since they run their Surface Studio on laptop CPUs.
OR, maybe, the SD 850 wasn't finalized when Microsoft began work on the Surface GO .. just like how they use 7th gen cpus on their Studio since the 8th wasn't ready to go when they started development.
For literally 29$ more you can get a Pro 6 with an i5/8GB/128GB w/ keyboard. No emulation at all. Can go cheaper and get the late model Core M model and save a couple hundred. This thing has priced itself out of the market.
"The Surface Pro 6 starts at $899 for a Core i5 processor, 8GB of RAM and 128GB of storage, but that's misleading. The vast majority of people will want to add the keyboard, which brings the price up to $1,028, and if you get the Surface Pen the total goes to $1,128."
Except for the pen part and the whining about it being misleading which it isnt, you just repeated what I wrote. The Surface has NEVER come with the KB. They're on their 6th iteration, so people have long learned this. Anyone that goes to buy one and miraculously hasn't seen this to be the case, using their powers of comprehension will realize the KB is sold separately.
So at the with pen price, you get a faster x86/x64 proc, 4GB extra RAM for 99$ more.
Again the Samsung tablet has priced itself out of the market. There is no justification fro using a gimped Windows 10S when you can get full featured x64 Win10 at the same price range.
I agree with the article that it is misleading since practically everybody wants the keyboard, and various posters on here claimed that Surface is cheaper when it clearly isn't.
But the fact the Surface has half the battery life and no LTE is a deal breaker.
This is good for reading email and using online office tools, like O365 and Google office tools. This not for gaming, or Autocad or other heavy dooty work. This competes with Chromebooks like Pixelbook that cost same or more and some ultrabooks that normally can go as high as $2500...
True, but this has better screen and keyboard and so on compared to $250 chromebook. $1500 pixelbook is very different device compared to normal $250 Chromebook even if They chare the same os. And even those web based Office tools can be better with beefier hardware.
Overpriced garbage like this device competes with nothing. No one wants a Qualcomm chip and not many want to run a crippled version of the bloated spyware Microsoft calls Windows. It's plain to see that Microsoft is out of ideas, out of vision.
There is a niche for it, but it really isn't that big.
It's too expensive for most to check emails and work on documents. It's not powerful enough for basic engineering, video editing or complex art programs to run.
Is this real, Samsung site has nothing about it - if so this is probably the low end version of - but to be honest Samsung seriously needs to drop the price on this device.. Around $600.
Probably not interested anyway, but out of curiosity, does this support T-Mobile LTE bands, since it's only mentioned as being sold on the other carriers?
1000 bucks for "those specs" blekk, especially when a "neutered" windows 10 (which itself is blekk IMO)
on another point of personal contention I WISH these makers that use the "new" style of Big.little core design would have the little cores run at much lower speed, in this case instead of 4 at 1.7Ghz, why not 4 at 700Mhz instead to conserve as much battery life as possible (when not need the performance)
just throwing out there, my "old" phenom II I can "downclock" all cores to 800mhz and run at like 0.435v, if an anything but "optimized" for low voltage x85 cpu can do this, why can an "smartphone" chip not be doing this as well.
4 cores at high speed and 4 cores at very low speed (within reason) like if at 2.96 chop in 1/2 gives you 1.48Ghz which is still "plenty" seeing as many phones shipped with similar "speed" or less for many many years and worked "perfectly fine", hell even at 600-400Mhz should be "good enough" for "simple things" such as calculator, listen to music and the like, especially when they all seem to use smallest battery they possibly can to make them "thin as possible"
anyways....very stupid thing here, decent enough specs no doubt, but, hamstrung in quite a few ways for a bleck chunk of change IMO
Only the maximum frequency is listed as usual, it would be boring to list the minimum frequency of 0MHz. Both the little and big cores will run at lower speeds with reduced voltage to reduce power further (note the little cores are different from the big cores and both slower and more efficient at the same frequency). This has been the case for many years, why on earth do you believe no smartphone does this today???
Sounds fishy indeed. Perhaps Intel gave them an offer they couldn't refuse - standard Intel practice, like "contra revenue" when they were trying to enter the mobile phone market.
I referring to part that even though Microsoft created Windows for ARM (RT 2.0) that they don't even support it with there own products. Well AMD is worst, making deal with China with CPU and likely includes security leaks.
AMD the worst? Microsoft gave China a special government-access backdoor version of Windows decades ago and has continued to supply China with spyware operating systems. Intel has supplied China with backdoored chips for many years. AMD is only doing what has been already done many times already by companies far bigger than AMD. It's not good, but it doesn't make much of a difference at this point.
Wrong question. Just ask yourself: If China wanted all of the above, who could afford to refuse them?
Taking a stance can be expensive and once you have learned not to refuse the government of the country you live it, it becomes much easier to accept that governments may rule some parts of the business, except taxes.
I suppose some phones cost more than that now but why not use the 8th Gen Intel Core Y-Series processors, like Core i7-8500, i5-8200Y, m3-8100Y at 5W (10 less than the previous gen!).
Add another USB-C or two while you're at it (or a mini HDMI/Display Port) and have a genuine success in your hands...
Honestly, is it so difficult for someone at Samsung to think of these things?
Most companies, Samsung included, don’t care about consumers’ wishes. They just design something and throw it out there. If they don’t succeed, they’ll just try something else. It’s a hit or miss thing. They just don’t have the abilities to learn. They don’t even bother to get on tech sites to read the comments about the reviews of their products.
Between this $1000 thing and a Dell of similar price, I’d take the latter.
This is Samsung trying out this market. I think the profits are much larger compared to an Intel platform since Intel usually asks hundreds of dollars for an i5/i7 CPU, whereas Qualcomm sells them for peanuts. I still hold my opinion that these kinds of tablets won't gain traction. The battery life argument is not really interesting. Tablets with Intel CPUs also have great battery life. The 4G modem is also not a big deal. Yeah, it is fast, but there are already tablets from Intel side with 4G modems and it could go as far as having the X20. The biggest issue here is compatbility. These tablets cannot run ANY x64 app. Get that in your mind. Also, 32bit apps run noticeably slower in emulation mode. Sure, Windows + office runs natively but Windows you take it for granted. Office apps are usually static. Google chrome will run on emulation. Photoshop will run on emulation. Not many games are even compatible in emulation mode. All the hacks, tools, stuff that you have on windows won't work, will be buggy or will work very slowly on this. Someone said here that this is made for day to day use. Mail, browsing, spreadsheets. Sure, but why not spend a few more bucks and get a device that is not limited to that? Also, have you seen how slow the snapdragon 835 runs in general? Do you believe that 30% more performance will make it snappy? This is a nice idea, but the price is too much. This tablet should cost max 500-600$ to be interesting.
Prices are high cause its new. This has always been the trend. I do however agree that the specs is underwhelming considering that a simple Intel Celeron/ Pentium Silver class process comes with the same sort of specs, and likely still faster than the SD 850. The only saving grace for this is the longer battery life, though I still feel they probably overstated the battery life, i.e. too good to be true.
This would have been sort of amazing if you know Microsoft still made a phone. Could have had a phablet that bluetoothed to a mouse and keyboard and miracast to a TV for a PC experience. At least now with phone prices the $1000 price tag would have been easier to swallow.
Too bad they dont have a phone, Bluetooth would have been on a crippled avastar chip, and Miracast has never worked right.
One thing that I thought about this product, it would likely have more success as Chrome book which it performance is on same level instead Windows 10 platform. But then again, they could not charge the outrageous price
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WithoutWeakness - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
$1000? Who is buying these things? I'm sure it has a great screen and supports touch/pen input but I have a hard time figuring out who is paying $1000 for 4GB RAM, 128GB storage, and a hamstrung Windows 10 install that is locked down to Windows Store apps.SL4KR - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
$750 for just the tablet is a big ask.HStewart - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
I could see it worth it had a real x86 based process - but an emulated systems which Microsoft themselves does not trust enough to make a Microsoft Surface system with it. I have the original Samsung TabPro S with Intel Core M process which likely runs x86 programs faster than this thing. I yet to see Windows for Snapdragon device in real life.Wilco1 - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Windows runs natively, there is no emulation unless you download an x86 application. I can certainly see myself getting a device like this for email and browsing on the move - better than a plain tablet, and at 20 hours it's more efficient than a typical x86 laptop.HStewart - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
"Windows runs natively, there is no emulation unless you download an x86 application."Ok you can run as many as Windows 10 Apps natively you want. But here is keep thing why this is basically Windows RT 2.0, Microsoft does not even have a device on this stuff.
Wilco1 - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Well maybe they will - the current models are way too expensive (particularly the i7 ones at well over $2000 with keyboard) and too power hungry (~8 hours), so using a 7nm Cortex-A76 based CPU for these would be a much better choice.HStewart - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Microsoft is notorious for making their device well over price. Plus by the time 7nm models of ARM are available, Intel will have CPU's that would much better and longer battery life than the ARM cpu. Keep in mind when you mention $2000 Surface Pro A similar equip Surface Pro actually still has twice the memory and storage - and is less than $1000. With modern i5 CPU, it will like have more performance than ARM cpu - especially with native application. Keep in mind that Windows for ARM does not run 64 bit applications.It would extremely naïve to think that Intel is not researching and will not have something significantly better in 2019.
Wilco1 - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
7nm Arm chips are already on the market right now. The cheapest Surface Pro costs at least $1100 with keyboard (https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/microsof... ), and that's just an i5 with half the battery life of this, so not equal specs at all.It's extremely naïve to believe that Intel will have some magic chips in 2019 to save the day - man you will be so disappointed...
leo_sk - Monday, October 22, 2018 - link
Performance of i5 is much better than snapdragon. It is extremely naive to think that this tablet can do some magicSantoval - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
"It would extremely naïve to think that Intel is not researching and will not have something significantly better in 2019."The low power Ice Lake CPUs (made at 10nm+ and with expected quite better power efficiency than that sole Core-i3 Cannon Lake 15W CPU with disabled iGPU Intel released a while back) are expected to be released in late 2019, not earlier. "Late 2019" might then slip into "early 2020" if Intel faces new problems, which can certainly not be ruled out.
Intel at 10nm+ fixed the manufacturing issues and low yields they had with 10nm (with the help of ASML), while Ice Lake is their first new architecture since Skylake, so additional power efficiency and performance is expected from both fronts. The question is if they are going to honor their (latest) schedule this time or slip again. They say they are merely testing and validating the fixes, so if that's true and was not BS to keep their stock from falling further, we might indeed see Ice Lake CPUs, from bottom to top-mainstream (the HEDT ones will be released a bit later, while the server ones almost a year later) in Q4 2019.
Jeremy G - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
By your logic, Microsoft doesn't trust Intels desktop CPU's either.. since they run their Surface Studio on laptop CPUs.OR, maybe, the SD 850 wasn't finalized when Microsoft began work on the Surface GO .. just like how they use 7th gen cpus on their Studio since the 8th wasn't ready to go when they started development.
mpbello - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
For email and browsing on the move you have your smartphone already!Manch - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
For literally 29$ more you can get a Pro 6 with an i5/8GB/128GB w/ keyboard. No emulation at all. Can go cheaper and get the late model Core M model and save a couple hundred. This thing has priced itself out of the market.Wilco1 - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
It's $1,128: https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/microsof..."The Surface Pro 6 starts at $899 for a Core i5 processor, 8GB of RAM and 128GB of storage, but that's misleading. The vast majority of people will want to add the keyboard, which brings the price up to $1,028, and if you get the Surface Pen the total goes to $1,128."
Manch - Saturday, October 20, 2018 - link
Except for the pen part and the whining about it being misleading which it isnt, you just repeated what I wrote. The Surface has NEVER come with the KB. They're on their 6th iteration, so people have long learned this. Anyone that goes to buy one and miraculously hasn't seen this to be the case, using their powers of comprehension will realize the KB is sold separately.So at the with pen price, you get a faster x86/x64 proc, 4GB extra RAM for 99$ more.
Again the Samsung tablet has priced itself out of the market. There is no justification fro using a gimped Windows 10S when you can get full featured x64 Win10 at the same price range.
Wilco1 - Sunday, October 21, 2018 - link
I agree with the article that it is misleading since practically everybody wants the keyboard, and various posters on here claimed that Surface is cheaper when it clearly isn't.But the fact the Surface has half the battery life and no LTE is a deal breaker.
phoenix_rizzen - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Ouch, only 4 GB of RAM? That's not going to be fun to use, unless treating it like a single-tasking device. :(For that price, there should be at least 8 GB of RAM. This isn't an Android device, after all.
r3loaded - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Even iPhones have 4GB now.haukionkannel - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
This is good for reading email and using online office tools, like O365 and Google office tools.This not for gaming, or Autocad or other heavy dooty work.
This competes with Chromebooks like Pixelbook that cost same or more and some ultrabooks that normally can go as high as $2500...
shadarlo - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
If you're only checking emails and using basic office tools, you can do that on a $250 Chromebook with the same specs...haukionkannel - Saturday, October 20, 2018 - link
True, but this has better screen and keyboard and so on compared to $250 chromebook. $1500 pixelbook is very different device compared to normal $250 Chromebook even if They chare the same os. And even those web based Office tools can be better with beefier hardware.10101010 - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
Overpriced garbage like this device competes with nothing. No one wants a Qualcomm chip and not many want to run a crippled version of the bloated spyware Microsoft calls Windows. It's plain to see that Microsoft is out of ideas, out of vision.Tams80 - Monday, October 22, 2018 - link
There is a niche for it, but it really isn't that big.It's too expensive for most to check emails and work on documents. It's not powerful enough for basic engineering, video editing or complex art programs to run.
HStewart - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Is this real, Samsung site has nothing about it - if so this is probably the low end version of - but to be honest Samsung seriously needs to drop the price on this device.. Around $600.HStewart - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
It would be really stupid if Samsung only has a this version of book, it is sure way to kill a product line.PaoDeTech - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
I use the keyboard to type in the weather app all the time!jhoff80 - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Probably not interested anyway, but out of curiosity, does this support T-Mobile LTE bands, since it's only mentioned as being sold on the other carriers?Dragonstongue - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
1000 bucks for "those specs" blekk, especially when a "neutered" windows 10 (which itself is blekk IMO)on another point of personal contention I WISH these makers that use the "new" style of Big.little core design would have the little cores run at much lower speed, in this case instead of 4 at 1.7Ghz, why not 4 at 700Mhz instead to conserve as much battery life as possible (when not need the performance)
just throwing out there, my "old" phenom II I can "downclock" all cores to 800mhz and run at like 0.435v, if an anything but "optimized" for low voltage x85 cpu can do this, why can an "smartphone" chip not be doing this as well.
4 cores at high speed and 4 cores at very low speed (within reason) like if at 2.96 chop in 1/2 gives you 1.48Ghz which is still "plenty" seeing as many phones shipped with similar "speed" or less for many many years and worked "perfectly fine", hell even at 600-400Mhz should be "good enough" for "simple things" such as calculator, listen to music and the like, especially when they all seem to use smallest battery they possibly can to make them "thin as possible"
anyways....very stupid thing here, decent enough specs no doubt, but, hamstrung in quite a few ways for a bleck chunk of change IMO
Wilco1 - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Only the maximum frequency is listed as usual, it would be boring to list the minimum frequency of 0MHz. Both the little and big cores will run at lower speeds with reduced voltage to reduce power further (note the little cores are different from the big cores and both slower and more efficient at the same frequency). This has been the case for many years, why on earth do you believe no smartphone does this today???Xex360 - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Too expensive for what it is, not a real processor, you can get the new surface pro which is way better.HStewart - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Yes and Microsoft did not even release a Surface Pro with this ARM processing - something is really fishy with that fact.Wilco1 - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Sounds fishy indeed. Perhaps Intel gave them an offer they couldn't refuse - standard Intel practice, like "contra revenue" when they were trying to enter the mobile phone market.HStewart - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
I referring to part that even though Microsoft created Windows for ARM (RT 2.0) that they don't even support it with there own products. Well AMD is worst, making deal with China with CPU and likely includes security leaks.10101010 - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
AMD the worst? Microsoft gave China a special government-access backdoor version of Windows decades ago and has continued to supply China with spyware operating systems. Intel has supplied China with backdoored chips for many years. AMD is only doing what has been already done many times already by companies far bigger than AMD. It's not good, but it doesn't make much of a difference at this point.Speedfriend - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
Really? where is the proof to back up your conspiracy theory claims?abufrejoval - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
Wrong question. Just ask yourself: If China wanted all of the above, who could afford to refuse them?Taking a stance can be expensive and once you have learned not to refuse the government of the country you live it, it becomes much easier to accept that governments may rule some parts of the business, except taxes.
faiakes - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
$1000 for a mobile phone SoC?!?I suppose some phones cost more than that now but why not use the 8th Gen Intel Core Y-Series processors, like Core i7-8500, i5-8200Y, m3-8100Y at 5W (10 less than the previous gen!).
Add another USB-C or two while you're at it (or a mini HDMI/Display Port) and have a genuine success in your hands...
Honestly, is it so difficult for someone at Samsung to think of these things?
sonny73n - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
Most companies, Samsung included, don’t care about consumers’ wishes. They just design something and throw it out there. If they don’t succeed, they’ll just try something else. It’s a hit or miss thing. They just don’t have the abilities to learn. They don’t even bother to get on tech sites to read the comments about the reviews of their products.Between this $1000 thing and a Dell of similar price, I’d take the latter.
yeeeeman - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
This is Samsung trying out this market. I think the profits are much larger compared to an Intel platform since Intel usually asks hundreds of dollars for an i5/i7 CPU, whereas Qualcomm sells them for peanuts. I still hold my opinion that these kinds of tablets won't gain traction. The battery life argument is not really interesting. Tablets with Intel CPUs also have great battery life. The 4G modem is also not a big deal. Yeah, it is fast, but there are already tablets from Intel side with 4G modems and it could go as far as having the X20. The biggest issue here is compatbility. These tablets cannot run ANY x64 app. Get that in your mind. Also, 32bit apps run noticeably slower in emulation mode. Sure, Windows + office runs natively but Windows you take it for granted. Office apps are usually static. Google chrome will run on emulation. Photoshop will run on emulation. Not many games are even compatible in emulation mode. All the hacks, tools, stuff that you have on windows won't work, will be buggy or will work very slowly on this.Someone said here that this is made for day to day use. Mail, browsing, spreadsheets. Sure, but why not spend a few more bucks and get a device that is not limited to that? Also, have you seen how slow the snapdragon 835 runs in general? Do you believe that 30% more performance will make it snappy?
This is a nice idea, but the price is too much. This tablet should cost max 500-600$ to be interesting.
PeachNCream - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
"Sure, but why not spend a few more bucks and get a device that is not limited to that?"This thing costs $1K so someone could also spend many less bucks and get a device that has fewer limits.
haukionkannel - Saturday, October 20, 2018 - link
Most likely because the same hardware with Intel will be priced near 2000... because They can...watzupken - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
Prices are high cause its new. This has always been the trend. I do however agree that the specs is underwhelming considering that a simple Intel Celeron/ Pentium Silver class process comes with the same sort of specs, and likely still faster than the SD 850. The only saving grace for this is the longer battery life, though I still feel they probably overstated the battery life, i.e. too good to be true.Gunbuster - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
I love how they still cant figure out a use case for "always on" yet continue to lead with it...Gunbuster - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
This would have been sort of amazing if you know Microsoft still made a phone. Could have had a phablet that bluetoothed to a mouse and keyboard and miracast to a TV for a PC experience. At least now with phone prices the $1000 price tag would have been easier to swallow.Too bad they dont have a phone, Bluetooth would have been on a crippled avastar chip, and Miracast has never worked right.
HStewart - Sunday, October 21, 2018 - link
One thing that I thought about this product, it would likely have more success as Chrome book which it performance is on same level instead Windows 10 platform. But then again, they could not charge the outrageous priceoRAirwolf - Sunday, October 21, 2018 - link
I am excited for the Chinese to get their hands on this display and make some cheap Android tablets.