I calculated SPs*(base clock+boost clock) as an approximate measure of performance. If it was a linear scale, this should be called the RX 570.7848909! Even "RX 571" would be overselling it.
Boo Hisss. Even if we assume that manufacturers and vendors will consistently include the 2048SP part of the name it's needlessly confusing and I hate it when GPU vendors do this. Nvidia is just as guilty as AMD and I hate it.
Also I think the prices in the table are wrong. The launch price of the 580 wasn't $99. $199 for the 4gb version maybe or maybe in a currency other than USD,
Nah, Nvidia is only guilty of rebranding 1 or 2 generations back with the current nomenclature for super cheap cards. GeForce4 MX, anyone? I don't really know which is worse, because both pollute their own namespaces, though I think it may be AMD's flat out reuse of names that's definitely going to cause more consumer confusion.
Yes because NVIDIA is completely blameless with the 1050 2gb/3gb or 1060 3gb/6gb cards being differing configs for the different memory sizes. Wikipedia even list a 1060 5gb with yet another config.
what a STUPID MOVE for AMD to allow/do because we just KNOW that various AIB or at least resellers and how they did not properly label RX 560 with te 16CU (full fat) or the cut down 14CU (1/2 fat?) and yet charged the same #$%^#% price (Asus, MSI looking directly at you)
If this "cut down" RX 580 is basically identical to an RX 570 (but a wee touch higher boost) then it darn well better be priced like a 570 is (should have been) $169 USD for the 4gb ~$220 for 8gb
Nothing worse then AIB (or sellers) charging same as if not more then the "big brother" or identically pricing the RX 570 and 580 when they should not be doing so.
so much for the "price drop incoming" have read about here there and everywhere since March of this year, RAM price was supposed to drop around the same time frame (though it has not)
anyways....I am with others on this, if they want to do a "cut-down" RX580 that is virtually identical to 570s, they should have called it 570 something, not 580 with less CU, or better yet, just call it a damn 570 because that is what it is, 40Mhz on "boost" means previous little when some cards never manage to get it there in majority of use cases because of poor thermal cooler design (Ahem Armor MK1)
I do not think I ever seen once a 4gb RX 570 priced at $169 even within first week or 2 in US, they seemed to hit $230+ real quick however, and the 8gb models ~$245+ (570 or 580) the 580s $229 LOL...try $250+ unless you got "day 1" and "lucked out" or bought from Ebay or something...
China has very poor consumer protection laws and more important lousy enforcement. These chips probably would be binned as straight 570 if they were headed to US but channels in China can and will market them as 580 with zero chance of getting sued.
Consumer operating systems = Windows and MacOS Consoles (non-portable) = Microsoft and Sony GPUs = Nvidia and AMD CPUs = Intel and AMD Consumer computer hardware (non-portable) = x86
"It seems like everyone is satisfied with letting one or two companies control everything" you must be a seriously dim bulb if you think that's the reason why there are monopolies and duopolies in industries that require massive amounts of capital for a company to even attempt to be competitive.
Pot calling kettle black. If consumers didnt like it, they would be jumping on any new company entering the market, even if the final product is riddled with bugs and production issues. Case in point tesla.
News flash: the "mindless consumer drone" stereotype exists for a reason. Many consumers will simply buy what is prettiest, from a brand they know. How many people continued to buy samsungs despite their atrocious skin and performance during the earlier galaxy era? How many people continue to buy HP laptops despite their quality being absolute garbage? People buying chryslers despite atrocious reliability, buying ford focus cars despite a faulty gearbox, ece.
If the consumer doesnt support it, the company will go under, no matter what "it" is. And if consumers are content with the status quo, they wont jump on a new company, and you end up with a duopoly. Again, case in pint, windows phone. WP was superior to iOS and android from both a ease of use and capability standpoint, yet they floundered and went under, most consumers just bought the next iphone or samsung phone.
AMD has given up on the high-end consumer graphics segment. The only GPUs they're making now are for consoles, and PC gamers will get derivatives of those. Going forward, NVIDIA is going to be the only game in town if you want graphics fidelity.
People said the same thing about bulldozer, then ryzen showed up.
It takes years for a GPU to come to fruition, and people seriously underestimate how much raja put into vega at the expense of everything else.
Also, you really think AMD will put all this effort into making a new arch for consoles and NOT release a higher margin version to the PC world? Nvidia was making money hand over fist on the PC market compared to AMD's console offerings. And somehow you think this means no new high end chips? You do realize modern architectures are meant to expand in size, right?
I don't think Assimilator was using hyperbole - in interviews, Lisa Su, AMD's CEO, basically said that the company had limited resources and decided to focus on the CPU, while on the graphics side focus on their "semi-custom" business (consoles, etc.) which is high-volume but pretty low margin.
They essentially told their RTG group that they had to have less in the way of engineering resources, which may/may not have been a big reason why former head Raja Koduri jumped ship to Intel. AMD's got more cash now, and could conceivably have put more resources into graphics development, but I'm not sure if they have or haven't.
So while not "giving up" officially - and remember, AMD's Radeon Pro line is well-regarded in the industry (and counts Apple, amongst others, as a customer), I think it is fair to say that AMD isn't focused with beating Nvidia in sheer performance at the top of the stack.
My bet is that their goal is to have cards that compete with the middle of Nvidia's line up (say, between the xx60 and xx70-level), while also having competitive offerings in ML and continuing to it's work on Pro.
That isn't to say they MIGHT NOT outperform this - in particular, I think they've got a shot in the next 18 months or so if Nvidia sticks with 14nm (as they are for the 20xx series) and AMD can launch products at 7nm. (By most accounts, the next chips we see out of AMD will also be the last that use GCN, and so it's possible they might find a way to have GCN's successor be competitive with Nvidia in a broader sense).
Isn't Navi all about scalability? This would mean - to me, anyway - that AMD will have a single Navi GPU, and for higher-end applications, will use multiple, much like Ryzen having one or two CCXs. How that'll work in practice is anybody's guess. All AMD really need to do is go after the mainstream - if a single Navi produces 1080-like performance for upper-1060/lower-1070 price, I can't see NVIDIA competing with that in the short-term.
If it would be, then this would have a significant reduction in the power usage and that would allow higher speed... So no... this is different "product".
Were you confused by that announcement, too? Because the 580 is essentially just a binned, higher-specced 480, the chip behind it is 2 years old. Why go through a shrink?
The only thing I can think of is they've got semi-custom orders (like a console, though its obviously not the PS4 or XBox One, since those are both built into the APU, and I think are at 16nm) that will continue to pour in for an extended period of time, meaning they'll be making the chips for a very long time.
Possibly related, when GloFo announced they weren't going to do 7nm, AMD didn't get good revised terms on their wafer agreement, and AMD needs to milk out every thing they can for 14/12nm chips.
That's some high level product branding BS. I really want to support AMD so that Intel and NVIDIA have at least one credible competitor in the CPU and GPU spaces, but practices like this certainly make me hesitant.
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TheITS - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Would it really have been so hard to call it RX 575?mrvco - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Maybe '575' is an unlucky number in China.Zingam - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
Fake Chinese productboozed - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Not confusing enoughMonkeyPaw - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Or 570 XT, or 570+, or 570 XL, or 570 Boost edition, or 570 Pro, or...Zingam - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
Nobody's gonna pay you a dime for that! But the guy who came up with Radeon RX 580 2048SP got paid, a bonus and a promotion.stephenbrooks - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
I calculated SPs*(base clock+boost clock) as an approximate measure of performance. If it was a linear scale, this should be called the RX 570.7848909! Even "RX 571" would be overselling it.The Chill Blueberry - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
r/theydidthemathLord of the Bored - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
Resurrect the old "special edition" branding from the ATi days.SaolDan - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Are those launch prices correct?nathanddrews - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Only for those that preordered before launch.kpb321 - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Boo Hisss. Even if we assume that manufacturers and vendors will consistently include the 2048SP part of the name it's needlessly confusing and I hate it when GPU vendors do this. Nvidia is just as guilty as AMD and I hate it.Also I think the prices in the table are wrong. The launch price of the 580 wasn't $99. $199 for the 4gb version maybe or maybe in a currency other than USD,
Alexvrb - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
This is very likely a china-only product.just6979 - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Nah, Nvidia is only guilty of rebranding 1 or 2 generations back with the current nomenclature for super cheap cards. GeForce4 MX, anyone? I don't really know which is worse, because both pollute their own namespaces, though I think it may be AMD's flat out reuse of names that's definitely going to cause more consumer confusion.kpb321 - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Yes because NVIDIA is completely blameless with the 1050 2gb/3gb or 1060 3gb/6gb cards being differing configs for the different memory sizes. Wikipedia even list a 1060 5gb with yet another config.RSAUser - Friday, October 19, 2018 - link
you forgot the 1030 GDDR scandal.CaedenV - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
So... its a 570 with a slightly faster boost clock?When are they going to release some real GPUs?
Gc - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
s/Polaris 11/Polaris 10/Flunk - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Most card makers were already making this, they call it a 570. Most of them only use AMD's clocks as a starting point.Dragonstongue - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
what a STUPID MOVE for AMD to allow/do because we just KNOW that various AIB or at least resellers and how they did not properly label RX 560 with te 16CU (full fat) or the cut down 14CU (1/2 fat?) and yet charged the same #$%^#% price (Asus, MSI looking directly at you)If this "cut down" RX 580 is basically identical to an RX 570 (but a wee touch higher boost) then it darn well better be priced like a 570 is (should have been) $169 USD for the 4gb ~$220 for 8gb
Nothing worse then AIB (or sellers) charging same as if not more then the "big brother" or identically pricing the RX 570 and 580 when they should not be doing so.
so much for the "price drop incoming" have read about here there and everywhere since March of this year, RAM price was supposed to drop around the same time frame (though it has not)
anyways....I am with others on this, if they want to do a "cut-down" RX580 that is virtually identical to 570s, they should have called it 570 something, not 580 with less CU, or better yet, just call it a damn 570 because that is what it is, 40Mhz on "boost" means previous little when some cards never manage to get it there in majority of use cases because of poor thermal cooler design (Ahem Armor MK1)
I do not think I ever seen once a 4gb RX 570 priced at $169 even within first week or 2 in US, they seemed to hit $230+ real quick however, and the 8gb models ~$245+ (570 or 580) the 580s $229 LOL...try $250+ unless you got "day 1" and "lucked out" or bought from Ebay or something...
wr3zzz - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
China has very poor consumer protection laws and more important lousy enforcement. These chips probably would be binned as straight 570 if they were headed to US but channels in China can and will market them as 580 with zero chance of getting sued.Oxford Guy - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
This is why we need real competition in the tech sector. Clearly, Nvidia and AMD are not consumer friendly.Oxford Guy - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Monopolies and duopolies reign.Consumer operating systems = Windows and MacOS
Consoles (non-portable) = Microsoft and Sony
GPUs = Nvidia and AMD
CPUs = Intel and AMD
Consumer computer hardware (non-portable) = x86
et cetera
Oxford Guy - Monday, October 15, 2018 - link
Some more:phones: Android and iOS
search: Google and Bing
It seems like everyone is satisfied with letting one or two companies control everything. This is not a recipe for consumer-friendly practices!
The_Assimilator - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
"It seems like everyone is satisfied with letting one or two companies control everything" you must be a seriously dim bulb if you think that's the reason why there are monopolies and duopolies in industries that require massive amounts of capital for a company to even attempt to be competitive.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
Pot calling kettle black. If consumers didnt like it, they would be jumping on any new company entering the market, even if the final product is riddled with bugs and production issues. Case in point tesla.News flash: the "mindless consumer drone" stereotype exists for a reason. Many consumers will simply buy what is prettiest, from a brand they know. How many people continued to buy samsungs despite their atrocious skin and performance during the earlier galaxy era? How many people continue to buy HP laptops despite their quality being absolute garbage? People buying chryslers despite atrocious reliability, buying ford focus cars despite a faulty gearbox, ece.
If the consumer doesnt support it, the company will go under, no matter what "it" is. And if consumers are content with the status quo, they wont jump on a new company, and you end up with a duopoly. Again, case in pint, windows phone. WP was superior to iOS and android from both a ease of use and capability standpoint, yet they floundered and went under, most consumers just bought the next iphone or samsung phone.
zer0hour - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
Looks like AMD's GPU division is circling the drain.Tams80 - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
"The Radeon RX 580 2048SP is currently available only in China"Learn to read before you comment next time.
euskalzabe - Monday, October 22, 2018 - link
I've heard that many times before, and then look at Zen. Never say never.r3loaded - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
Instead of cynical rebranding, how about a GPU that's even vaguely competitive with Nvidia's offerings?The_Assimilator - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
AMD has given up on the high-end consumer graphics segment. The only GPUs they're making now are for consoles, and PC gamers will get derivatives of those. Going forward, NVIDIA is going to be the only game in town if you want graphics fidelity.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
People said the same thing about bulldozer, then ryzen showed up.It takes years for a GPU to come to fruition, and people seriously underestimate how much raja put into vega at the expense of everything else.
Also, you really think AMD will put all this effort into making a new arch for consoles and NOT release a higher margin version to the PC world? Nvidia was making money hand over fist on the PC market compared to AMD's console offerings. And somehow you think this means no new high end chips? You do realize modern architectures are meant to expand in size, right?
sing_electric - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
I don't think Assimilator was using hyperbole - in interviews, Lisa Su, AMD's CEO, basically said that the company had limited resources and decided to focus on the CPU, while on the graphics side focus on their "semi-custom" business (consoles, etc.) which is high-volume but pretty low margin.They essentially told their RTG group that they had to have less in the way of engineering resources, which may/may not have been a big reason why former head Raja Koduri jumped ship to Intel. AMD's got more cash now, and could conceivably have put more resources into graphics development, but I'm not sure if they have or haven't.
So while not "giving up" officially - and remember, AMD's Radeon Pro line is well-regarded in the industry (and counts Apple, amongst others, as a customer), I think it is fair to say that AMD isn't focused with beating Nvidia in sheer performance at the top of the stack.
My bet is that their goal is to have cards that compete with the middle of Nvidia's line up (say, between the xx60 and xx70-level), while also having competitive offerings in ML and continuing to it's work on Pro.
That isn't to say they MIGHT NOT outperform this - in particular, I think they've got a shot in the next 18 months or so if Nvidia sticks with 14nm (as they are for the 20xx series) and AMD can launch products at 7nm. (By most accounts, the next chips we see out of AMD will also be the last that use GCN, and so it's possible they might find a way to have GCN's successor be competitive with Nvidia in a broader sense).
silverblue - Thursday, October 18, 2018 - link
Isn't Navi all about scalability? This would mean - to me, anyway - that AMD will have a single Navi GPU, and for higher-end applications, will use multiple, much like Ryzen having one or two CCXs. How that'll work in practice is anybody's guess. All AMD really need to do is go after the mainstream - if a single Navi produces 1080-like performance for upper-1060/lower-1070 price, I can't see NVIDIA competing with that in the short-term.The_Assimilator - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
I will crack a rib laughing if this POS is the rumoured "RX 590" 12nm die-shrink that has had Team Red fanboys frothing at the mouth for months.haukionkannel - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
If it would be, then this would have a significant reduction in the power usage and that would allow higher speed... So no... this is different "product".sing_electric - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
Were you confused by that announcement, too? Because the 580 is essentially just a binned, higher-specced 480, the chip behind it is 2 years old. Why go through a shrink?The only thing I can think of is they've got semi-custom orders (like a console, though its obviously not the PS4 or XBox One, since those are both built into the APU, and I think are at 16nm) that will continue to pour in for an extended period of time, meaning they'll be making the chips for a very long time.
Possibly related, when GloFo announced they weren't going to do 7nm, AMD didn't get good revised terms on their wafer agreement, and AMD needs to milk out every thing they can for 14/12nm chips.
PeachNCream - Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - link
That's some high level product branding BS. I really want to support AMD so that Intel and NVIDIA have at least one credible competitor in the CPU and GPU spaces, but practices like this certainly make me hesitant.