Really interested to see if the 9700k will beat the 8700k given fewer threads and a negligible increase in clock speed, assuming this leak is accurate.
No one is forcing anyone to purchase any of these. If you do not care for their price, performance, features or otherwise you simply do not buy one. As for offering options without-HT re-read the article, or others, some Linux distros have disabled HT to prevent side-channel attacks. A bit over-the-top IMHO but still these options provide a guaranteed prevention for those inclined to worry.
That's a silly argument. No one is forcing anyway, same as nvidia charging $1200 this generation isnt forcing anyone to buy but that was not the point. Read again.
All thanks to AMD. 5Ghz Single Core performance is going to be interesting, with all the security fix turned on. We really need some Zen 2 news from AMD before this thing launch.
Keep in mind with this series CPU, security fixes are in hardware and not just firmware. So it will be interesting to see performance. No AMD also have security issues and not sure about their updates.
According to a previous Anandtech article, some of the security fixes are baked into hardware, some are still in firmware. We may need to wait until Intel's next gen series processors for all the fixes to be baked into hardware.
I believe you are referring to https://www.anandtech.com/show/13301/spectre-and-m... @HStewart would seem to be incorrect with the statement "with this series CPU, security fixes are in hardware". Coffee Lake and Cannon Lake (+, X, refresh, or otherwise) were not mentioned in that article.
The article specifically mentions the Cascade Lake and Whiskey Lake microarchitectures as having mitigation in hardware for some variants and still firmware based mitigations for Amber Lake. We will more than likely need to wait until the rumored "Cove" processors for all of the variants to be mitigated in hardware.
Hopefully AMD will make some changes and get higher clocks out of Zen 2.
That's all that's holding them back at the moment and just going to 7nm isn't likely to fix it. We've been able to hit 5GHz since 32nm. Got to be an architectural bottleneck.
9900K actually supports up to 5GHz on two cores; or 4.7 GHz on all cores using the standard "Turbo" mode without enabling any additional OC. So it will be interesting to see.
Its interesting to see base speed is slower that lower core counts, but has higher boost speed with more cores. If they can keep it =-$50 from 8th gen the top tier one will be pretty impressive.
Very disappointed by intel's decision on HT. I don't buy the security reasoning for its removal. It looks to be purely profit oriented. Everything was set nicely for a 8c/6c/4c line up of i7/i5/i3 models, all with HT enabled since there would've been no core count overlap, but that was too much to give to users, apparently.
Why do that when they can introduce a more expensive i9 for socket 1151 at a higher price.
Intel cant win either way. If they enable hyperthreading, people complain about too many modes. If they disable it, people complain about being ripped off. I dont have any problem with disabling it on 4 and 6 core models. Instead of 4/8 or 6/12 (cores/threads) just move up to the next level of real cores. They do need a non-k, cheaper 8 core model with hyperthreading though, since now if you want 8 cores, 16 threads, you have to move up to the 9700k.
What do you mean by "too many modes"?! There is absolutely no downside to including HT. It can be disabled if you don't want it. The complaints of those people who don't realize there is an HT toggle in bios doesn't count.
Yes, a 6c/6t i3, 8c/8t i5 and 8c/16t i7 lineup would've been ok too. The point is that there was no need for an i9 line for socket 1151.
I think thermals on the 9700k are going to be quite good because of the drop of HT HT was never a good perf/Watt, it was good perf/num_of_transistors only, which translates to perf/cost for them. For this reason I am quite interested in the 9700k. I hope it can do full 8 core load @5ghz at 140W or much less a few mhz lower, together with rumors of soldered IHS I think it will be a good buy. Looking forward for reviews!
Why not compare like-to-like in the "8th Gen Offerings"? Please at least add the equivalent non-K parts for the i5 and i3 levels even if the K parts are not removed.
So... no HT, 25% less cache, no "not-k" versions, old 14nm fabrication process, increased TDP, same old hardware bugs, no support for DDR4 3000 & 3200. Does Intel want to lose its crown? It seems so. It's really hard to beat the Ryzen 5 2600 at 150$.
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ESR323 - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Really interested to see if the 9700k will beat the 8700k given fewer threads and a negligible increase in clock speed, assuming this leak is accurate.milkywayer - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
No HT?I thought AMD punched them back into their senses but it seems intel wants to milk one last gen before becoming the under dog.
Greed has no limits. Ugh
AutomaticTaco - Monday, September 24, 2018 - link
No one is forcing anyone to purchase any of these. If you do not care for their price, performance, features or otherwise you simply do not buy one. As for offering options without-HT re-read the article, or others, some Linux distros have disabled HT to prevent side-channel attacks. A bit over-the-top IMHO but still these options provide a guaranteed prevention for those inclined to worry.milkywayer - Monday, September 24, 2018 - link
That's a silly argument. No one is forcing anyway, same as nvidia charging $1200 this generation isnt forcing anyone to buy but that was not the point. Read again.iwod - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
All thanks to AMD. 5Ghz Single Core performance is going to be interesting, with all the security fix turned on. We really need some Zen 2 news from AMD before this thing launch.HStewart - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Keep in mind with this series CPU, security fixes are in hardware and not just firmware. So it will be interesting to see performance. No AMD also have security issues and not sure about their updates.JoeyJoJo123 - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
According to a previous Anandtech article, some of the security fixes are baked into hardware, some are still in firmware. We may need to wait until Intel's next gen series processors for all the fixes to be baked into hardware.PopinFRESH007 - Sunday, September 23, 2018 - link
I believe you are referring to https://www.anandtech.com/show/13301/spectre-and-m... @HStewart would seem to be incorrect with the statement "with this series CPU, security fixes are in hardware". Coffee Lake and Cannon Lake (+, X, refresh, or otherwise) were not mentioned in that article.The article specifically mentions the Cascade Lake and Whiskey Lake microarchitectures as having mitigation in hardware for some variants and still firmware based mitigations for Amber Lake. We will more than likely need to wait until the rumored "Cove" processors for all of the variants to be mitigated in hardware.
hansmuff - Friday, October 5, 2018 - link
You are correct. The upcoming chips do NOT have any additional hardware fixes. Side channel attack fixes will still cost a lot of performance.0ldman79 - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Hopefully AMD will make some changes and get higher clocks out of Zen 2.That's all that's holding them back at the moment and just going to 7nm isn't likely to fix it. We've been able to hit 5GHz since 32nm. Got to be an architectural bottleneck.
ballsystemlord - Thursday, September 27, 2018 - link
Citation please?AutomaticTaco - Monday, September 24, 2018 - link
9900K actually supports up to 5GHz on two cores; or 4.7 GHz on all cores using the standard "Turbo" mode without enabling any additional OC. So it will be interesting to see.imaheadcase - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Its interesting to see base speed is slower that lower core counts, but has higher boost speed with more cores. If they can keep it =-$50 from 8th gen the top tier one will be pretty impressive.HStewart - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
"Its interesting to see base speed is slower that lower core counts"That is normal, cheaper CPU have less performance.
imaheadcase - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Its not normal for just added core count.sa666666 - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
The master Intel apologist has spoken.Drazick - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
The issue here is memory bandwidth.In order to utilize 8 cores effectively we need more memory bandwidth.
I think it is time for Triple / Quad channel memory in the main stream CPU's as well (Maybe having 6 / 8 channels in HEDT).
eddman - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
Very disappointed by intel's decision on HT. I don't buy the security reasoning for its removal. It looks to be purely profit oriented. Everything was set nicely for a 8c/6c/4c line up of i7/i5/i3 models, all with HT enabled since there would've been no core count overlap, but that was too much to give to users, apparently.Why do that when they can introduce a more expensive i9 for socket 1151 at a higher price.
ondma - Sunday, September 23, 2018 - link
Intel cant win either way. If they enable hyperthreading, people complain about too many modes. If they disable it, people complain about being ripped off.I dont have any problem with disabling it on 4 and 6 core models. Instead of 4/8 or 6/12 (cores/threads) just move up to the next level of real cores. They do need a non-k, cheaper 8 core model with hyperthreading though, since now if you want 8 cores, 16 threads, you have to move up to the 9700k.
eddman - Monday, September 24, 2018 - link
What do you mean by "too many modes"?! There is absolutely no downside to including HT. It can be disabled if you don't want it. The complaints of those people who don't realize there is an HT toggle in bios doesn't count.Yes, a 6c/6t i3, 8c/8t i5 and 8c/16t i7 lineup would've been ok too. The point is that there was no need for an i9 line for socket 1151.
mgc1 - Sunday, September 23, 2018 - link
I think thermals on the 9700k are going to be quite good because of the drop of HTHT was never a good perf/Watt, it was good perf/num_of_transistors only, which translates to perf/cost for them.
For this reason I am quite interested in the 9700k. I hope it can do full 8 core load @5ghz at 140W or much less a few mhz lower, together with rumors of soldered IHS I think it will be a good buy.
Looking forward for reviews!
eddman - Sunday, September 23, 2018 - link
We've always had the option to disable HT in bios settings, so I don't see how removing an optional feature is a good thing.HT has a sizeable perf/watt advantage in proper multi-threaded scenarios, rendering, encoding, and alike.
Yaldabaoth - Monday, September 24, 2018 - link
Why not compare like-to-like in the "8th Gen Offerings"? Please at least add the equivalent non-K parts for the i5 and i3 levels even if the K parts are not removed.Kamgusta - Friday, September 28, 2018 - link
So... no HT, 25% less cache, no "not-k" versions, old 14nm fabrication process, increased TDP, same old hardware bugs, no support for DDR4 3000 & 3200.Does Intel want to lose its crown? It seems so.
It's really hard to beat the Ryzen 5 2600 at 150$.