I'm not sure I agree. Obviously, it's personal preference. But I find that when I need proper wired connectivity (i.e. in the office) I also want bigger screens. So what I want is a dock - USB-C is all I need for that. The rest of the time, when I'm not using a bigger screen, I want portability and wireless, rather than being wired in. I can't think of scenarios where I want to be tied down with wires working on a 12.5" laptop, but I'm sure there are others with different use cases.
It's becoming a bit of a rarity, but a small lightweight laptop size like this, that can handle more than just "office" work, can definitely use an ethernet port, especially for field engineers. A lot of equipment I work on needs a connection via cable (usb or ethernet), not depending entirely on wireless, and ugh ensuring the driver speaks through the usb-to-ethernet adapter is hit or miss.
The dongle here isn't USB, it's just a proprietary port that's physically smaller than an ethernet port to allow them to fit it in a laptop this small/thin. The signaling is to an internal ethernet controller, the dongle is passive.
Agreed. I think HP has shown us how to integrate an RJ45 port into a thin laptop using a collapsible hinge port. Leaving the port out and using a proprietary dongle is a dealbreaker for many people looking at a machine like this. For the sake of transparency: HP also leaves out the connector and substitutes a proprietary dongle on various ultrathins - but nothing with the "Elite" name on it.
I'm perfectly happy with my coffee lake Dell Latitude 5290. Dell has really focused on USB-C through their entire lineup. Amazing laptop, except for the bogus PCIe x2 interface on the M.2 port :(
I also imported it from Canada (French model) that has the IPS screen. Like the Lenovo, it was only available in the USA with a TN screen. I changed out the French keyboard (which also wasn't backlit) with a US backlit keyboard for $40.
Yes HP did that collapsible hinges thingy. However. the systems are just as thick as any system out there with a fixed R45port. It just looks slim on the side due to the rounded base.
These Thinkpads are slimmer than any of the equivalent Elitebook series.
HP's slim Spectre series dont have a RJ45 connector at all and are dependent on a USB dongle
I agree, it is mostly a visual cue to appear thinner. But it does help slip them into a bag as all the corners are thinner.
And sadly, it isn't even a USB dongle on many models such as the Folio 1020, it's a proprietary dongle that breaks out ports from the dock connector. You could use a USB NIC, but it wont use the native chipset MAC.
The screen options are both shit. Why in the hell do I have to choose between a low-res TN panel and a glossy touch screen panel?
There is so much irony in that Japan gets the "good" model, because 17 years ago I imported an X40 with an SSD, and ONLY IN JAPAN could you get the paltry 40GB PATA SSD, even if it cost $500, they didn't even attempt to sell that config in the US market until years later with the X41.
So I suspect we will be waiting on this one for a good config as well.
Thank you Lenovo for creating this wonderful piece of art with AMD Ryzen PRO cpus. It is nice to see that some OEMs can create thin laptops with Ryzen CPUs while others are claiming that AMD is not enough efficient for thin laptops, like Asus sellers.
I would disagree - comparing it to say my Dell XPS 15 2in1 - which is much more powerful machine, and has 15 screen it actually thick part is thinner than this notebook and thinning part is half as thin.
I also have Dell XPS 13 2in1 and it about screen size as this - but lower weight and average 1/2 height of this note book - yes it less powerful but it thin as MacBook air.
Why compare this to the IdeaPad 720S or the X1 carbon instead of the X280 that's near identical to this except Intel-based? That's a far more relevant (and interesting) comparison.
I would think this notebook is similar to X280 - only big difference is that this one has AMD CPU and GPU which is slower on CPU and faster on GPU but X280 has Thunderbolt 3 which is really nice in my opinion
Exactly. Which is why battery life comparisons and so on with the X280 would have been very relevant here. Instead they point to rather irrelevant alternatives.
Even though I have a ThinkPad for work, I think when IBM sold the line to Lenovo they lost a lot of quality in the process - there were 2 qualification required for device - GBe network and multiple monitor support. This device does have GBe via dongle - and not sure about true multi monitor support - it does not have Thunderbolt 3 support which would provide that. You can possibly hook up via USB-C but not sure it would provide true monitor support. My T530 also have Quadro card - but we don't need it.
Yeah, fortunately their are other brands that make laptops. Lenovo / IBM laptops may have appealed to me about 15 years ago but they only appealed to me 15 years ago. I think there is a slight nerdy infatuation to have old, mundane looking laptops. I don't get it. The same people that love these laptops probably love their IBM Model M keyboard. *eye roll* To each their own. You guys have at it. I'll use other, more modern, and appealing stuff.
"The same people that love these laptops probably love their IBM Model M keyboard. *eye roll* To each their own"
I am one of those that love the older IBM Keyboards and even the older Thinkpads, I unfortunately can not use classic IBM Keyboards any more but the DasKeyboard is close or even better than IBM. As for Lenovo laptops, they loss a lot of quality
Right now I'm typing this on my *fantastic* original Model M, manufactured in 1989, thanks to a "Soarer's Converter" I bought on Ebay (but you can roll your own, see: https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/xt-at-ps2-term...
Then there are the Model M clones by Unicomp (See: https://www.pckeyboard.com/) which I haven't tried but I suspect being of high quality too...
If I only could put my hands on an original "Model M Space Saving" keyboard, the one without the numpad...
... and I forgot to mention that my "other" PC, the one I bring with me when traveling, is a ThinkPad X220, with an i7 2620M, 16GB of RAM, *IPS* display and a recently added 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD for bringing with me everything I could reasonably need: my documents, my (many) pictures, my music, etc.
Of course when I run out of gas I can swap the empty battery with a second one I bring with me. Can you with this "toy"?
Ohh God I miss the space saving Model M. I had one when I worked at Argonne National Labs as a college intern in 2000 and between that and compact notebooks, I've still never learned to rely on a number pad as most of my keyboards have been 10-keyless since.
I looked into buying one years ago and new they were a couple hundred dollars. That's what all 3 of my Das Keyboards cost and they are just as good.
It'd be interesting if Lenovo made a 25th Anniversary edition of the Model M but they would inevitably fuck it up.
"The same people that love these laptops probably love their IBM Model M keyboard. *eye roll*"
You obviously have never spent much time typing on keyboards. The tactile feedback of classic IBM keyboard were second to none and the only reason they ceased production was because corporations didn't want to pay for quality keyboards in the 90s when they rolled out PC to every employee. Most of today's premium keyboards aim to capture that IBM type feel. Knowing quality is not nerdy infatuation. Fingers don't change with technology.
As for the bezel. They are thick for my taste but I also know that thin bezels are not necessarily popular with people who are out on the field a lot. The bazels give them something to grab on.
You can bet if Lenovo put the M keyboards back into production, it would be the most molested fucking reincarnation of a product you ever set your gasping eyes on.
Would be nice to see a 2k or 4K res option for the price instead of 720 or 1080p... At that price point customers are likely to look past these for an intel option with inferior graphics but actually has a modern res screen.... jmo
What about thermals? Will it reach stable 3+GHz being below 90C? And does it have NOT soldered 2-channel RAM? If not, Ryzen or Intel makes no difference.
The repeated instances of "and so on" when listing features seem out of place - giving the impression that the author knows of other features but doesn't feel they're worth noting. This might actually be the case (heaven knows if this is from a press release, manufacturers have a habit of padding it out), but in that case it'd probably be best just not to note them.
Other than that: I'm disappointed that the dongle isn't included in the box, as that basically means it *doesn't* have Ethernet - just an option to add it, for $29.99. You can get USB 3.x hubs with their own RJ-45 Ethernet port for half that.
It certainly does. My cheap no-name Windows tablet runs a 2k 9.7" iPad screen and it's IPS so it looks great. Once you get used to 250+ dpi on a portable computer, there's no going back to horrendous low res TN screens.
I used to think that. Some time ago, I started working in a government office. Lots of docked laptops (with external displays), here. The portability is rarely used, but appreciated when needed (e.g, attaching to projectors in conference rooms).
In such situations, I can see the benefit of not wasting money on a higher quality display.
5 years ago, we bought several Lenovo E130s, which, for ~EUR 400, provided Ethernet, VGA (*and* HDMI), about the same weight and battery life, an exchangeable battery (with the option to get a bigger battery), socketed RAMs, probably slightly smaller width and depth (11.6" screen with similar bezel), but more thickness. It is painful to see what buyers are apparently willing to put up with in order to have a slightly thinner laptop. Meanwhile, I'll use the E130 until it and it's backup (another E130) dies, or until manufacturers finally get rid of the thinness bugs and sell useful small laptops again.
In the meantime, for those who want some of these features (unfortunately no exchangeable battery), the HP ProBook430G5 is the best one can get now.
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Kaggy - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
It all looks good until "GbE port that requires a dongle"neogodless - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
I'm not sure I agree. Obviously, it's personal preference. But I find that when I need proper wired connectivity (i.e. in the office) I also want bigger screens. So what I want is a dock - USB-C is all I need for that. The rest of the time, when I'm not using a bigger screen, I want portability and wireless, rather than being wired in. I can't think of scenarios where I want to be tied down with wires working on a 12.5" laptop, but I'm sure there are others with different use cases.darckhart - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
It's becoming a bit of a rarity, but a small lightweight laptop size like this, that can handle more than just "office" work, can definitely use an ethernet port, especially for field engineers. A lot of equipment I work on needs a connection via cable (usb or ethernet), not depending entirely on wireless, and ugh ensuring the driver speaks through the usb-to-ethernet adapter is hit or miss.Valantar - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
The dongle here isn't USB, it's just a proprietary port that's physically smaller than an ethernet port to allow them to fit it in a laptop this small/thin. The signaling is to an internal ethernet controller, the dongle is passive.Samus - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
Agreed. I think HP has shown us how to integrate an RJ45 port into a thin laptop using a collapsible hinge port. Leaving the port out and using a proprietary dongle is a dealbreaker for many people looking at a machine like this. For the sake of transparency: HP also leaves out the connector and substitutes a proprietary dongle on various ultrathins - but nothing with the "Elite" name on it.I'm perfectly happy with my coffee lake Dell Latitude 5290. Dell has really focused on USB-C through their entire lineup. Amazing laptop, except for the bogus PCIe x2 interface on the M.2 port :(
I also imported it from Canada (French model) that has the IPS screen. Like the Lenovo, it was only available in the USA with a TN screen. I changed out the French keyboard (which also wasn't backlit) with a US backlit keyboard for $40.
ChasePack - Monday, September 24, 2018 - link
Yes HP did that collapsible hinges thingy. However. the systems are just as thick as any system out there with a fixed R45port. It just looks slim on the side due to the rounded base.These Thinkpads are slimmer than any of the equivalent Elitebook series.
HP's slim Spectre series dont have a RJ45 connector at all and are dependent on a USB dongle
Samus - Tuesday, September 25, 2018 - link
I agree, it is mostly a visual cue to appear thinner. But it does help slip them into a bag as all the corners are thinner.And sadly, it isn't even a USB dongle on many models such as the Folio 1020, it's a proprietary dongle that breaks out ports from the dock connector. You could use a USB NIC, but it wont use the native chipset MAC.
Samus - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
The screen options are both shit. Why in the hell do I have to choose between a low-res TN panel and a glossy touch screen panel?There is so much irony in that Japan gets the "good" model, because 17 years ago I imported an X40 with an SSD, and ONLY IN JAPAN could you get the paltry 40GB PATA SSD, even if it cost $500, they didn't even attempt to sell that config in the US market until years later with the X41.
So I suspect we will be waiting on this one for a good config as well.
anaconda79 - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Thank you Lenovo for creating this wonderful piece of art with AMD Ryzen PRO cpus. It is nice to see that some OEMs can create thin laptops with Ryzen CPUs while others are claiming that AMD is not enough efficient for thin laptops, like Asus sellers.Kaggy - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
But the price should have been cheaper given that this is pretty much costing the same as those with discrete graphics.HStewart - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
I would disagree - comparing it to say my Dell XPS 15 2in1 - which is much more powerful machine, and has 15 screen it actually thick part is thinner than this notebook and thinning part is half as thin.I also have Dell XPS 13 2in1 and it about screen size as this - but lower weight and average 1/2 height of this note book - yes it less powerful but it thin as MacBook air.
Valantar - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Why compare this to the IdeaPad 720S or the X1 carbon instead of the X280 that's near identical to this except Intel-based? That's a far more relevant (and interesting) comparison.HStewart - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
I would think this notebook is similar to X280 - only big difference is that this one has AMD CPU and GPU which is slower on CPU and faster on GPU but X280 has Thunderbolt 3 which is really nice in my opinionValantar - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
Exactly. Which is why battery life comparisons and so on with the X280 would have been very relevant here. Instead they point to rather irrelevant alternatives.HStewart - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Even though I have a ThinkPad for work, I think when IBM sold the line to Lenovo they lost a lot of quality in the process - there were 2 qualification required for device - GBe network and multiple monitor support. This device does have GBe via dongle - and not sure about true multi monitor support - it does not have Thunderbolt 3 support which would provide that. You can possibly hook up via USB-C but not sure it would provide true monitor support. My T530 also have Quadro card - but we don't need it.GreenReaper - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Pretty sure DisplayPort-over-USB-C counts as an external monitor connection:https://www.displayport.org/displayport-over-usb-c...
Don't buy into the "Thunderbolt or bust" mantra from Intel.
Valantar - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
Yep, DP over USB-C is fully featured DP, and just as easy to convert to whatever you want as a full DP port would be. Nothing to complain about here.Samus - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
Ya think? XDp1esk - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Those bezels in 2018? wow...mooninite - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Yeah, fortunately their are other brands that make laptops. Lenovo / IBM laptops may have appealed to me about 15 years ago but they only appealed to me 15 years ago. I think there is a slight nerdy infatuation to have old, mundane looking laptops. I don't get it. The same people that love these laptops probably love their IBM Model M keyboard. *eye roll* To each their own. You guys have at it. I'll use other, more modern, and appealing stuff.HStewart - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
"The same people that love these laptops probably love their IBM Model M keyboard. *eye roll* To each their own"I am one of those that love the older IBM Keyboards and even the older Thinkpads, I unfortunately can not use classic IBM Keyboards any more but the DasKeyboard is close or even better than IBM. As for Lenovo laptops, they loss a lot of quality
Samus - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
DasKeyboard's are amazing. I have THREE of them.essemzed - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
Right now I'm typing this on my *fantastic* original Model M, manufactured in 1989, thanks to a "Soarer's Converter" I bought on Ebay (but you can roll your own, see: https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/xt-at-ps2-term...Then there are the Model M clones by Unicomp (See: https://www.pckeyboard.com/) which I haven't tried but I suspect being of high quality too...
If I only could put my hands on an original "Model M Space Saving" keyboard, the one without the numpad...
essemzed - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
... and I forgot to mention that my "other" PC, the one I bring with me when traveling, is a ThinkPad X220, with an i7 2620M, 16GB of RAM, *IPS* display and a recently added 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD for bringing with me everything I could reasonably need: my documents, my (many) pictures, my music, etc.Of course when I run out of gas I can swap the empty battery with a second one I bring with me. Can you with this "toy"?
I agree: "To each their own"!
Samus - Tuesday, September 25, 2018 - link
Ohh God I miss the space saving Model M. I had one when I worked at Argonne National Labs as a college intern in 2000 and between that and compact notebooks, I've still never learned to rely on a number pad as most of my keyboards have been 10-keyless since.I looked into buying one years ago and new they were a couple hundred dollars. That's what all 3 of my Das Keyboards cost and they are just as good.
It'd be interesting if Lenovo made a 25th Anniversary edition of the Model M but they would inevitably fuck it up.
wr3zzz - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
"The same people that love these laptops probably love their IBM Model M keyboard. *eye roll*"You obviously have never spent much time typing on keyboards. The tactile feedback of classic IBM keyboard were second to none and the only reason they ceased production was because corporations didn't want to pay for quality keyboards in the 90s when they rolled out PC to every employee. Most of today's premium keyboards aim to capture that IBM type feel. Knowing quality is not nerdy infatuation. Fingers don't change with technology.
As for the bezel. They are thick for my taste but I also know that thin bezels are not necessarily popular with people who are out on the field a lot. The bazels give them something to grab on.
Samus - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
You can bet if Lenovo put the M keyboards back into production, it would be the most molested fucking reincarnation of a product you ever set your gasping eyes on.Inteli - Monday, October 1, 2018 - link
You can already buy brand new Model Ms from Unicomp. Lenovo would have to get the rights from them.tristann88 - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Would be nice to see a 2k or 4K res option for the price instead of 720 or 1080p... At that price point customers are likely to look past these for an intel option with inferior graphics but actually has a modern res screen.... jmowordlv - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
2200u 2c/4t w/Vega 3 not 6. 2300u 4c/4t w/Vega 6. I've seen this error in multiple sites.Ryan Smith - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
Thanks!arquolo - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
What about thermals? Will it reach stable 3+GHz being below 90C?And does it have NOT soldered 2-channel RAM? If not, Ryzen or Intel makes no difference.
HStewart - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
It looks pretty fat for 12in laptop - so it could have socketed ram. It could be under keyboard - it pretty think there compare say the Dell'sGreenReaper - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
The repeated instances of "and so on" when listing features seem out of place - giving the impression that the author knows of other features but doesn't feel they're worth noting. This might actually be the case (heaven knows if this is from a press release, manufacturers have a habit of padding it out), but in that case it'd probably be best just not to note them.Other than that: I'm disappointed that the dongle isn't included in the box, as that basically means it *doesn't* have Ethernet - just an option to add it, for $29.99. You can get USB 3.x hubs with their own RJ-45 Ethernet port for half that.
0siris - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
I hope this is a step towards getting Ryzen Pro in the X1 Yoga, or some other 14" Thinkpad 2-in-1.Dolda2000 - Saturday, September 22, 2018 - link
Given that these laptops use APUs, it would be very helpful to know if the memory is in single- or dual-channel configuration. Any words on that?StevoLincolnite - Sunday, September 23, 2018 - link
It's 2018, almost 2019.1366×768 TN needs to die.
serendip - Sunday, September 23, 2018 - link
It certainly does. My cheap no-name Windows tablet runs a 2k 9.7" iPad screen and it's IPS so it looks great. Once you get used to 250+ dpi on a portable computer, there's no going back to horrendous low res TN screens.jeremyshaw - Thursday, November 8, 2018 - link
I used to think that. Some time ago, I started working in a government office. Lots of docked laptops (with external displays), here. The portability is rarely used, but appreciated when needed (e.g, attaching to projectors in conference rooms).In such situations, I can see the benefit of not wasting money on a higher quality display.
yeeeeman - Sunday, September 23, 2018 - link
If this is the same s**t as the Ideapad line, then they can shove it down their a***s.urbanman2004 - Sunday, September 23, 2018 - link
Soldered memory? Yuckmilkod2001 - Monday, September 24, 2018 - link
All great until i seen prices. Always though AMD was about better value but this time it is not. Hard pass.Mikewind Dale - Monday, September 24, 2018 - link
Alas, no ECC. So not an alternative to a Xeon. A pity. The Ryzen is supposed to support ECC.AntonErtl - Tuesday, September 25, 2018 - link
5 years ago, we bought several Lenovo E130s, which, for ~EUR 400, provided Ethernet, VGA (*and* HDMI), about the same weight and battery life, an exchangeable battery (with the option to get a bigger battery), socketed RAMs, probably slightly smaller width and depth (11.6" screen with similar bezel), but more thickness. It is painful to see what buyers are apparently willing to put up with in order to have a slightly thinner laptop. Meanwhile, I'll use the E130 until it and it's backup (another E130) dies, or until manufacturers finally get rid of the thinness bugs and sell useful small laptops again.In the meantime, for those who want some of these features (unfortunately no exchangeable battery), the HP ProBook430G5 is the best one can get now.