At least on high end laptops like this one, I'd be interested in seeing 1440p/4k results when possible. Yes, for most titles that's still going to be an aspirational target, for another year or two; but with current high end GPUs being overkill for 1080p seeing how much farther you can push is useful; and 2080SLI (when supported) and the upcoming 7nm generation will likely be able to hit acceptable framerates in at least some titles and being able to look back against the prior generation will be beneficial.
I find it beyond ridiculous that you're actually fine with a 1080p TN with this screen size and this GPU, for this price in this day and age!
Can someone please explain..why would anyone need hulking 1080p POS if there are many laptops that are less than half lighter, far sleeker, cost half the price and can play EVERY game at 1080p 60fps?!?
..oh and also, why are you ignoring the fact that not being able to play at 4K 60fps is NOT an excuse for not having a 4K screen?? Is it that complicated to lower the resolution in the game settings??
Soo..that brings us back to my initial point, right? Why are you wasting your time on this 20 year old screen specs then? Why aren't you reviewing the said IPS option instead ? Benchmarking this laptop would only make sense at at least 1440p and with a screen that can actually showcase games in their full glory.
They're reviewing it because people in the world *other* than you might want to buy it. If your needs lie elsewhere, that's fine. It doesn't make the product or reviews of it worthless.
If colour gamut or viewing angles were the sole purchasing criteria, we'd all be using IPS screens over TN/VA. At this point in my life, and the current state of the market, I might well buy one myself. But a 120Hz screen _can_ give you a more well-defined picture of a moving object than a higher-resolution 60Hz screen, and that *may* be more important to a buyer - especially if they're trying to hit a small point on that moving object. And as mentioned above, it can avoid what some see as downsides such as desktop scaling.
There are reasons cameras have shutter speeds faster than 1/60sec as well, and one of them is because it gives you a sharper image of moving objects. Which, again, many games are full of. High-resolution textures would be wasted if they end up as a blurred mess.
There's little point in benchmarking in 1440p on an 1080p laptop because that is not how it will actually be used - and you're unlikely to swap the monitor out later (although it would be possible to plug a larger one in, I guess - in fact, that would be a *great* way to get that 4K IPS action as well).
For the inbuilt screen, antialiasing is a better way to provide image quality and use up the available video performance - and that's exactly what was tested with full-screen anti-aliasing and temporal anti-aliasing.
If I were to criticise the reviews, it would be that they seem to be an average FPS, which doesn't really cut it nowadays - I want to see 99% values, or number of frames it doesn't meet the target, because that's when you notice performance dropouts. But in many games the laptop exceeds the 120 FPS target, while in others it's still above 90 FPS. So it should deliver this particular model's key feature - high-FPS gaming.
Not really, at 3ft distance and 17", you can definitely notice the difference in sharpness between 1080p and 4k, heck, I can notice it between 1440p and 4k. The TN panel should have at least been 1440p.
At 3ft distance if you can notice any difference in sharpness between 1080 and 4k on 17''screen you must be using 1'' thick glasses with some laser enhancements and binoculars attached. Bet you got there night vision too. Haha.
You're either crazy either have serious eyesight impairment. 1080p TN on a 17" laptop with this price and this GPU is an absolute insult to common sense. If you are fine with paying that much money for staring into something that looks worse than a $300 tablet screen, well..no further comment.
The absolute insult for me would be paying nearly 3 grand for laptop. No matter how great it is, it is aimed at stupid people. 17'' laptop will sit on table 100% of times. Why not spend 3grand on desktop with 2 times better performance and at least 27''screen? Kinda silly, don't you agree?
1080p on 17" is perfectly fine. I don't expect 4k on 17'' screen scaling great using Windows.
The extra size should make this significantly quieter than a thin and light gaming laptop.
This will comfortably do 1080p 120hz, and has a decent margin to keep being able to do so for a few years before frame rates fall too low vs something with a lower end GPU that thermal throttles harder because of size.
That said, I really would like to see 15.6/17.3" 1440p laptop screens since that appears to be the sweet spot for current generation GPUs.
You'd think that, but all the high end DTRs have pretty similar jet turbines under load reaching above 55dBa, because they're all set to turbo themselves as high as they'll go, which is almost always limited by cooling. Idle and part load noise is a tradeoff between temps and noise up to the user via fan control schemes
You can set them all to be adaptive/set to screen resolution. Nvidia control panel > Manage 3D settings > Power management mode to adaptive. It's one of the first changes I make on any Nvidia or AMD card, what's the point in pushing twice the amount of frames needed, I'd rather use less power and have the fan quieter.
For a gaming laptop, it doesn't look overly obnoxious. Maybe OEMs are finally starting to back off from the excessive bling...one can hope anyway. Is it possible to install vanilla Intel drivers instead of Killer-branded ones and still end up with a working wireless adapter? The best solution would be for MSI to use an Intel WiFi NIC to begin with, but if the end user can still escape Killer software without opening the laptop up to replace the NIC, that'd be a second place alternative to fixing that particular hardware glitch.
Not sure, could be there was a 1070 model in the middle that was dropped for space reasons. Just looking on Amazon there're more models than the ones that could be crammed into the table here.
Brett, you're missing the point. If all the laptops in the table are 1080's then you only need a single full width cell for the GPU row, not two cells each with the same stats.
Later on in the article, they mention that it's the new adapter based on Intel 9260, rather than the awful Qualcomm stuff. That may make it worth it. The worst part of Killer's stuff in recent years wasn't the software, it was the underlying hardware.
In a roundabout way, this validates a number of complaints about earlier models of Killer Wireless products that were the subject of ire in previous articles. It's a shame that sort of acknowledgement wasn't around when previous generations were actually being sold. Also, this is the first time I've seen a Killer Wireless even get a bandwidth test in a while. Recent motherboards equipped with earlier model Killer WiFi cards didn't get any testing. I'm not trying to connect and conspiracy dots here, but the combination of facts doesn't paint a very rosy picture about the past couple years of Anandtech's view of Killer products and might add fuel to the fire of people like timecop1818 to continue to denounce Rivet Networks' claims as suspicious.
You're mistaken I've reviewed plenty of laptops with Killer's previous model and every single time I said they had reliability issues. I think I've been pretty clear over the last couple of years that at this point there's Intel and no one else in terms of quality Wi-Fi. In fact I recently reviewed a laptop with the Qualcomm Wi-Fi that the Killer was based on and it had the exact same issues.
That wasn't a call out of you in specific, but the tone of the site as a whole. In fact, I agree that you've noted stability problems and recommended driver updates in reviews of the Dell XPS 15 9560, the MSI GT83VR Titan 7RF, and Clevo P870DM2, and had a relatively slow result with a Razer Blade Stealth in March of 2016. (I didn't remember so I just checked and apologize for leaving you with the impression that I was slinging ire your way.)
The lack of bandwidth testing is more a comment about motherboard reviews where there isn't much in the way of validation done with NIC performance, but there were some comments espousing the benefits of its presence. There have also been past product announcements that were promotional in nature. All of that was in the absence of analytical testing that proved the benefit of the Killer NIC's traffic prioritization, its key selling point. Mix that situation with the lingering ire Bigfoot/Rivet/whomever else has built over the years with customers and you've got a situation where people will get defensive or aggressive over being told they should find the product useful. None of that is something I think you've had a hand in. The problem is, or maybe was given the transition to Intel hardware and that the point is probably now moot, elsewhere.
I just got a reply back from MSI on this. Early models of the GT75 Titan came with the 75 Wh and the current ones are offered with either the 75 Wh or 90 Wh depending on model. I added an update to the battery page about this. The review unit is an early build date and as such comes with the smaller battery. However the run time difference isn't going to be much different either way. Likely less than 30 minutes extra due to the high idle power consumption.
There are very few 3x3 wireless NICs around. You'd likely be better off utilizing the 160 MHz channels available on the NIC that's in this laptop already.
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DanNeely - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
At least on high end laptops like this one, I'd be interested in seeing 1440p/4k results when possible. Yes, for most titles that's still going to be an aspirational target, for another year or two; but with current high end GPUs being overkill for 1080p seeing how much farther you can push is useful; and 2080SLI (when supported) and the upcoming 7nm generation will likely be able to hit acceptable framerates in at least some titles and being able to look back against the prior generation will be beneficial.darkich - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
I find it beyond ridiculous that you're actually fine with a 1080p TN with this screen size and this GPU, for this price in this day and age!Can someone please explain..why would anyone need hulking 1080p POS if there are many laptops that are less than half lighter, far sleeker, cost half the price and can play EVERY game at 1080p 60fps?!?
darkich - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
..heck, excuse me but I have to straight up say that anyone buying this with a 1080p screen is a total idiot, sorry.Just see no point.
darkich - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
..oh and also, why are you ignoring the fact that not being able to play at 4K 60fps is NOT an excuse for not having a 4K screen??Is it that complicated to lower the resolution in the game settings??
Brett Howse - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
If you can't see the point of a 120 Hz display versus a 60 Hz display then I don't think anyone will be able to help you.darkich - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
Fair enough.I'd still take a far more quality and detailed image on a 17" over grainy 120Hz any day
Brett Howse - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
Well if you really are interested in this laptop but the 1920x1080 is holding you back, they do have a 3840x2160 IPS with G-Sync as well.darkich - Sunday, September 16, 2018 - link
Soo..that brings us back to my initial point, right?Why are you wasting your time on this 20 year old screen specs then?
Why aren't you reviewing the said IPS option instead ?
Benchmarking this laptop would only make sense at at least 1440p and with a screen that can actually showcase games in their full glory.
GreenReaper - Sunday, September 16, 2018 - link
They're reviewing it because people in the world *other* than you might want to buy it. If your needs lie elsewhere, that's fine. It doesn't make the product or reviews of it worthless.If colour gamut or viewing angles were the sole purchasing criteria, we'd all be using IPS screens over TN/VA. At this point in my life, and the current state of the market, I might well buy one myself. But a 120Hz screen _can_ give you a more well-defined picture of a moving object than a higher-resolution 60Hz screen, and that *may* be more important to a buyer - especially if they're trying to hit a small point on that moving object. And as mentioned above, it can avoid what some see as downsides such as desktop scaling.
There are reasons cameras have shutter speeds faster than 1/60sec as well, and one of them is because it gives you a sharper image of moving objects. Which, again, many games are full of. High-resolution textures would be wasted if they end up as a blurred mess.
There's little point in benchmarking in 1440p on an 1080p laptop because that is not how it will actually be used - and you're unlikely to swap the monitor out later (although it would be possible to plug a larger one in, I guess - in fact, that would be a *great* way to get that 4K IPS action as well).
For the inbuilt screen, antialiasing is a better way to provide image quality and use up the available video performance - and that's exactly what was tested with full-screen anti-aliasing and temporal anti-aliasing.
If I were to criticise the reviews, it would be that they seem to be an average FPS, which doesn't really cut it nowadays - I want to see 99% values, or number of frames it doesn't meet the target, because that's when you notice performance dropouts. But in many games the laptop exceeds the 120 FPS target, while in others it's still above 90 FPS. So it should deliver this particular model's key feature - high-FPS gaming.
milkod2001 - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
For 17'' screen lappy 1080p is perfectly fine.RSAUser - Saturday, September 15, 2018 - link
Not really, at 3ft distance and 17", you can definitely notice the difference in sharpness between 1080p and 4k, heck, I can notice it between 1440p and 4k.The TN panel should have at least been 1440p.
milkod2001 - Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - link
Yeah, well how is windows scaling working on 17''laptop with 4k screen?ralstonater - Monday, October 1, 2018 - link
I have the 4k-071 model and I can verify that the scaling works and looks just fine on my laptop :)milkod2001 - Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - link
At 3ft distance if you can notice any difference in sharpness between 1080 and 4k on 17''screen you must be using 1'' thick glasses with some laser enhancements and binoculars attached. Bet you got there night vision too. Haha.darkich - Sunday, September 16, 2018 - link
You're either crazy either have serious eyesight impairment.1080p TN on a 17" laptop with this price and this GPU is an absolute insult to common sense.
If you are fine with paying that much money for staring into something that looks worse than a $300 tablet screen, well..no further comment.
milkod2001 - Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - link
The absolute insult for me would be paying nearly 3 grand for laptop. No matter how great it is, it is aimed at stupid people. 17'' laptop will sit on table 100% of times. Why not spend 3grand on desktop with 2 times better performance and at least 27''screen? Kinda silly, don't you agree?1080p on 17" is perfectly fine. I don't expect 4k on 17'' screen scaling great using Windows.
zoxo - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
120Hz screenDanNeely - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
The extra size should make this significantly quieter than a thin and light gaming laptop.This will comfortably do 1080p 120hz, and has a decent margin to keep being able to do so for a few years before frame rates fall too low vs something with a lower end GPU that thermal throttles harder because of size.
That said, I really would like to see 15.6/17.3" 1440p laptop screens since that appears to be the sweet spot for current generation GPUs.
bennyg - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
You'd think that, but all the high end DTRs have pretty similar jet turbines under load reaching above 55dBa, because they're all set to turbo themselves as high as they'll go, which is almost always limited by cooling. Idle and part load noise is a tradeoff between temps and noise up to the user via fan control schemesRSAUser - Saturday, September 15, 2018 - link
You can set them all to be adaptive/set to screen resolution.Nvidia control panel > Manage 3D settings > Power management mode to adaptive.
It's one of the first changes I make on any Nvidia or AMD card, what's the point in pushing twice the amount of frames needed, I'd rather use less power and have the fan quieter.
PeachNCream - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
For a gaming laptop, it doesn't look overly obnoxious. Maybe OEMs are finally starting to back off from the excessive bling...one can hope anyway. Is it possible to install vanilla Intel drivers instead of Killer-branded ones and still end up with a working wireless adapter? The best solution would be for MSI to use an Intel WiFi NIC to begin with, but if the end user can still escape Killer software without opening the laptop up to replace the NIC, that'd be a second place alternative to fixing that particular hardware glitch.GreenReaper - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
A laptop that destroys your lap, the competition, and your bank balance all at once!ElvenLemming - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
Is there a mistake in the spec table for GPU? There are two sections but the same 1080 information is in both.DanNeely - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
Not sure, could be there was a 1070 model in the middle that was dropped for space reasons. Just looking on Amazon there're more models than the ones that could be crammed into the table here.Brett Howse - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
No mistake - they just have a lot of different models and there's not necessarily any sequential order for the components.DanNeely - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
Brett, you're missing the point. If all the laptops in the table are 1080's then you only need a single full width cell for the GPU row, not two cells each with the same stats.Brett Howse - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
Oh I see the issue. Someone deleted one row from my carefully crafted table. There's supposed to be one model with the GTX 1070. I'll fix it up.RedNeon - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
Except that there already is a laptop with AMD Vega 56 GPU, the Acer Predator Helios 500.shatteredx - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
Love this laptop. I might prefer the ASUS though since it has an AHVA screen. Might wait for the 2080 at this point too.timecop1818 - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
Hey look another laptop with killer wireless. hard pass.ViRGE - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
Later on in the article, they mention that it's the new adapter based on Intel 9260, rather than the awful Qualcomm stuff. That may make it worth it. The worst part of Killer's stuff in recent years wasn't the software, it was the underlying hardware.Brett Howse - Thursday, September 13, 2018 - link
Yes the 1550 didn't exhibit any of the issues I've seen with the older model. I was pretty happy with it.PeachNCream - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
In a roundabout way, this validates a number of complaints about earlier models of Killer Wireless products that were the subject of ire in previous articles. It's a shame that sort of acknowledgement wasn't around when previous generations were actually being sold. Also, this is the first time I've seen a Killer Wireless even get a bandwidth test in a while. Recent motherboards equipped with earlier model Killer WiFi cards didn't get any testing. I'm not trying to connect and conspiracy dots here, but the combination of facts doesn't paint a very rosy picture about the past couple years of Anandtech's view of Killer products and might add fuel to the fire of people like timecop1818 to continue to denounce Rivet Networks' claims as suspicious.Brett Howse - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
You're mistaken I've reviewed plenty of laptops with Killer's previous model and every single time I said they had reliability issues. I think I've been pretty clear over the last couple of years that at this point there's Intel and no one else in terms of quality Wi-Fi. In fact I recently reviewed a laptop with the Qualcomm Wi-Fi that the Killer was based on and it had the exact same issues.PeachNCream - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
That wasn't a call out of you in specific, but the tone of the site as a whole. In fact, I agree that you've noted stability problems and recommended driver updates in reviews of the Dell XPS 15 9560, the MSI GT83VR Titan 7RF, and Clevo P870DM2, and had a relatively slow result with a Razer Blade Stealth in March of 2016. (I didn't remember so I just checked and apologize for leaving you with the impression that I was slinging ire your way.)The lack of bandwidth testing is more a comment about motherboard reviews where there isn't much in the way of validation done with NIC performance, but there were some comments espousing the benefits of its presence. There have also been past product announcements that were promotional in nature. All of that was in the absence of analytical testing that proved the benefit of the Killer NIC's traffic prioritization, its key selling point. Mix that situation with the lingering ire Bigfoot/Rivet/whomever else has built over the years with customers and you've got a situation where people will get defensive or aggressive over being told they should find the product useful. None of that is something I think you've had a hand in. The problem is, or maybe was given the transition to Intel hardware and that the point is probably now moot, elsewhere.
pyrrh0 - Thursday, September 20, 2018 - link
I work with Wi-Fi and Apple's choice of Broadcom's kit in its laptops trumps anything I've used or heard about using Intel's WLAN gear.bennyg - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
Eh, I had an issue a few years ago that was easily fixed by uninstalling the silly management software, killer wlan issues are overblown imoRedNeon - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
Except that there already is a laptop with AMD Vega 56 GPU, the Acer Predator Helios 500.RedNeon - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
Anandtech used to be good.Brett Howse - Friday, September 14, 2018 - link
Those were the days!Natebert - Thursday, September 20, 2018 - link
My MSI GT75 also reports the same battery capacity - "DESIGN CAPACITY 79,344 mWh."I wonder when they'll actually offer it with the 90Wh.
Brett Howse - Thursday, September 20, 2018 - link
I just got a reply back from MSI on this. Early models of the GT75 Titan came with the 75 Wh and the current ones are offered with either the 75 Wh or 90 Wh depending on model. I added an update to the battery page about this. The review unit is an early build date and as such comes with the smaller battery. However the run time difference isn't going to be much different either way. Likely less than 30 minutes extra due to the high idle power consumption.pyrrh0 - Thursday, September 20, 2018 - link
10 Gbps Ethernet as an option but can't even get 3x3 Wi-Fi? Consumer 4x4 wireless routers have been out for some time now, as well. [scratches head]Brett Howse - Friday, September 21, 2018 - link
There are very few 3x3 wireless NICs around. You'd likely be better off utilizing the 160 MHz channels available on the NIC that's in this laptop already.HoodaPlays - Thursday, November 1, 2018 - link
Which should be cheaper to buy india or abroad as i will be buying i7 8th gen, and budget is 2 lakhyankeeDDL - Monday, April 22, 2019 - link
Any idea of how this fares against Ryzen 2*** series, especially the Ryzen 7 2800H, which has a similar TDP?alisonlangton - Wednesday, September 4, 2019 - link
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