"Anecdotal" experience ahead, but I am just hearing bad stuff about Lenovo quality control. This P1 sounds exciting (I'm tired of 13" laptops), but then I remembered this article: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/21014-dr-servicelo...
I mean, *everybody* praised the X1 Carbon and this is the kind of quality control running in the background?
As Brett Howse here realized with the first Surface Book and Avram Piltch, the editor-in-chief at Tom's Hardware, with his Lenovo X1 Carbon 6th gen: the irregularities of quality control among all laptop manufacturers is beyond frustrating. We just "accept" the panel lottery, the keyboard lottery, the CPU fan lottery, the touchpad lottery, the battery degradation lottery, the on-site tech lottery, etc.
At least with a desktop, you can build it yourself and suss it out. With laptops, you're stuck because some robot or algorithm decided you get "parts bin 321", when all the reviews of the laptop were from "parts bin 897"...who just 'happen' to be at the edge of "this is within tolerance" chasm they've created. This multiple sourcing isn't an issue for phones, because we rarely use phones as tools. But laptops gets 6+ hour, intense productivity work each day: every frustration is a weed in a garden.
Seems like $1800+ isn't enough for reliable control. Hell, I've had similar experiences with my $250 Dell Inspiron 13. I hope manufacturers realize, "This is a lose-lose game for all involved: just sell the product we paid for and tighten your tolerances."
This is normal across all brands these days, unfortunately. I've found that the only way to get reliable laptop hardware 95% of the time is to buy used from a trusted source, or from a store with a good return/exchange policy.
Lately I've been buying most of my Thinkpads about two years after release at the earliest, usually from people who I've talked to on forums and know wouldn't tolerate a flaky machine or would at least post about the issue to see if they can get it fixed.
Buying a new machine, on the other hand, is a crapshoot - last time I tried, it took me 2 exchanges to get one that was acceptable.
I own 4 Carbon X1s of different generations. They all have one major issue or another. For example LCD burn in where you can read the content of my screen for 30s after I change it (using a proper background for contrast).
I owned basically every generation of Ts and Xs until a few years ago. I know it's anecdotal but the trend is there and it's getting worse. My X200 just turned 10 years old. Wonder how my 1 year old X1 will do in 2027...
I really wish it was about the price.I'd gladly pay 25% more for a guaranteed top bin on all my parts. You can also buy your laptops _almost_ bare bones, and get all the extras you need after market.
Or, you can get yourself comfortable with a brand known for quality hardware for a particular "Pro" series (HP Probooks/zBooks, Dell Latitude/Precision, or Thinkpad T/P series) and order the 2nd or 3rd generation hardware *spec refresh* WHEN THEY ARE FIRST ANNOUNCED because that's when most of the top bin parts are sold and PRAY that there isn't any major design flaw in one or two of the parts. This is your best chance to get what you want in my experience, since most flaws in the earliest batch are not bin related, but design related.
HP’s equivalent zBook uses a 90w charger in restricted mode (it normally wants a 130-150w) and powers via USB-C as low as 60w but will not charge unless in standby. When the power demands call for more than 60w it will use hybrid power (battery+charger)
Even my Dell Latitude 5490 does this...it ships with a 60w barrel charger (identical AND compatible with HP ‘pre-blue’ tip) but has no issue running off a 45w USB-C connection, occasionally/rarely seeing the battery light flicker off letting me know it’s no longer charging and using hybrid power for a moment...that’s right it runs and charges off 45w when the design profile calls for 60w. It just depends on the demands of the user and how fast you want your battery to charge (the Dell BIOS has 7.5w and 15w customizable hybrid charging profiles for under-current adapters)
All of this is absent from Lenovo and it’s 2018, USB-C PD has been around for years. Even NINTENDO is on the USB-C bandwagon.
This is just another reason IT departments are ditching Lenovo...the primary reason being piss poor support.
As a current owner of a Thinkpad with the rectangular format power jack who's gone from small-barrel (X40/41) to large barrel (X200/201/220, T400/510/520) to large barrel with rectangular format adapter and rectangular format native... good God was I looking forward to everything getting USB-C for charging.
I don't care if the battery drains during 100% load plugged-in use if I connect a weak charger - I still want the option to charge the damned thing with a phone charger over night if I have to. Lighter use shouldn't be an issue anyway - not like I'm rendering 24/7. I'd be surprised if my desktop PC draws more than 100W on average during dev work.
I just want to appreciate the fact that they've designed it so that there are no exhaust vents on either side of the laptop, and that most of the I/O are on the left side, and the remaining I/O's on the right side are near the back. Finally got it right, no trade off between scorching heat when using a mouse, or having USB drives or whatever devices you have connected to be protruding from the right and interfering with the mouse hand.
Me... I hate them cramming the numpad in the side, since I never use it and it offsets the entire keyboard. I don't even have a numpad on my desktop keyboard. I vastly prefer the layout the've gone with here, especially since it centres the touchpad and allows the keys to be the "proper" size.
I'm interested in seeing what kind of cooling solution they implemented here. Quadro P2000 seems to be based on the GTX 1060 but with fewer SPs and lower clocks but still pretty powerful for such a thin laptop.
Guessing this laptop will throttle under load if you get a high-end CPU and the P2000. There isn't a slim laptop in the world that can cool well enough to handle full load on 7th-gen and newer i7/Xeon CPU's and 40W+ GPU's.
I guess they're still going with the oddly placed Fn Key. One thing that worries me is that manufacturers are trying to beat / match Apple on making their devices thinner than is practical, causing CPU throttling and keyboard issues. At some point a millimeter or a few grams less in weight don't really make the device more compelling - most of the time they'll sit on a desk or in a docking station. At least they don't glue / solder everything together, making it a nightmare to replace / service.
My Yoga 720 15" went back to the better Fn + Ctrl key placement (Ctrl to the left of Fn). Kinda sad to see the P1 go back to the "wrong" layout.
The Yoga keyboard also kind of sucks compared to the deeper Lenovo keyboards, like the one on the W530. I would rather the laptop be 2mm thicker and have a better keyboard, better cooling, and sturdier frame/deck.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
24 Comments
Back to Article
ikjadoon - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
"Anecdotal" experience ahead, but I am just hearing bad stuff about Lenovo quality control. This P1 sounds exciting (I'm tired of 13" laptops), but then I remembered this article: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/21014-dr-servicelo...I mean, *everybody* praised the X1 Carbon and this is the kind of quality control running in the background?
As Brett Howse here realized with the first Surface Book and Avram Piltch, the editor-in-chief at Tom's Hardware, with his Lenovo X1 Carbon 6th gen: the irregularities of quality control among all laptop manufacturers is beyond frustrating. We just "accept" the panel lottery, the keyboard lottery, the CPU fan lottery, the touchpad lottery, the battery degradation lottery, the on-site tech lottery, etc.
At least with a desktop, you can build it yourself and suss it out. With laptops, you're stuck because some robot or algorithm decided you get "parts bin 321", when all the reviews of the laptop were from "parts bin 897"...who just 'happen' to be at the edge of "this is within tolerance" chasm they've created. This multiple sourcing isn't an issue for phones, because we rarely use phones as tools. But laptops gets 6+ hour, intense productivity work each day: every frustration is a weed in a garden.
Seems like $1800+ isn't enough for reliable control. Hell, I've had similar experiences with my $250 Dell Inspiron 13. I hope manufacturers realize, "This is a lose-lose game for all involved: just sell the product we paid for and tighten your tolerances."
/old-man-rant
bemymonkey - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
This is normal across all brands these days, unfortunately. I've found that the only way to get reliable laptop hardware 95% of the time is to buy used from a trusted source, or from a store with a good return/exchange policy.Lately I've been buying most of my Thinkpads about two years after release at the earliest, usually from people who I've talked to on forums and know wouldn't tolerate a flaky machine or would at least post about the issue to see if they can get it fixed.
Buying a new machine, on the other hand, is a crapshoot - last time I tried, it took me 2 exchanges to get one that was acceptable.
close - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
I own 4 Carbon X1s of different generations. They all have one major issue or another. For example LCD burn in where you can read the content of my screen for 30s after I change it (using a proper background for contrast).I owned basically every generation of Ts and Xs until a few years ago. I know it's anecdotal but the trend is there and it's getting worse. My X200 just turned 10 years old. Wonder how my 1 year old X1 will do in 2027...
np76 - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
Yep. I tried to buy an X1 Carbon 6th gen but gave up after receiving back to back defective units (bad CPU fan followed by a bad touchpad chassis).It's a great laptop, in theory.
lilmoe - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
I really wish it was about the price.I'd gladly pay 25% more for a guaranteed top bin on all my parts. You can also buy your laptops _almost_ bare bones, and get all the extras you need after market.Or, you can get yourself comfortable with a brand known for quality hardware for a particular "Pro" series (HP Probooks/zBooks, Dell Latitude/Precision, or Thinkpad T/P series) and order the 2nd or 3rd generation hardware *spec refresh* WHEN THEY ARE FIRST ANNOUNCED because that's when most of the top bin parts are sold and PRAY that there isn't any major design flaw in one or two of the parts. This is your best chance to get what you want in my experience, since most flaws in the earliest batch are not bin related, but design related.
Kaggy - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
Nice to see Bluetooth 5, it is almost non existent for such a long time.gobaers - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
What is it gonna take to offer the seven row layout keyboards on these premium devices? It would make them so much more compelling.StevenD - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
We're making a portable workstation.Nice. Battery life?
Dunno.
Type c charging?
Hell no.
Only with proprietary charger?
Yup.
It was at that point that they should have realised, they fucked up!
olafgarten - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
USB-PD only supports up to 100w, that is most likely the reason for a proprietary charger.Samus - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
HP’s equivalent zBook uses a 90w charger in restricted mode (it normally wants a 130-150w) and powers via USB-C as low as 60w but will not charge unless in standby. When the power demands call for more than 60w it will use hybrid power (battery+charger)Even my Dell Latitude 5490 does this...it ships with a 60w barrel charger (identical AND compatible with HP ‘pre-blue’ tip) but has no issue running off a 45w USB-C connection, occasionally/rarely seeing the battery light flicker off letting me know it’s no longer charging and using hybrid power for a moment...that’s right it runs and charges off 45w when the design profile calls for 60w. It just depends on the demands of the user and how fast you want your battery to charge (the Dell BIOS has 7.5w and 15w customizable hybrid charging profiles for under-current adapters)
All of this is absent from Lenovo and it’s 2018, USB-C PD has been around for years. Even NINTENDO is on the USB-C bandwagon.
This is just another reason IT departments are ditching Lenovo...the primary reason being piss poor support.
bemymonkey - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
As a current owner of a Thinkpad with the rectangular format power jack who's gone from small-barrel (X40/41) to large barrel (X200/201/220, T400/510/520) to large barrel with rectangular format adapter and rectangular format native... good God was I looking forward to everything getting USB-C for charging.I don't care if the battery drains during 100% load plugged-in use if I connect a weak charger - I still want the option to charge the damned thing with a phone charger over night if I have to. Lighter use shouldn't be an issue anyway - not like I'm rendering 24/7. I'd be surprised if my desktop PC draws more than 100W on average during dev work.
nimi - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
I just want to appreciate the fact that they've designed it so that there are no exhaust vents on either side of the laptop, and that most of the I/O are on the left side, and the remaining I/O's on the right side are near the back. Finally got it right, no trade off between scorching heat when using a mouse, or having USB drives or whatever devices you have connected to be protruding from the right and interfering with the mouse hand.Teckk - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
Why no touch on the FHD option? A 2K screen would be a good option, laptops don't come in that resolution?iwod - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
Price Starts at $1,949Starts? That is assuming the FHD, Core i5, UHD Graphics 620, 8 or 16GB DDR Ram without ECC will cost that much?
This is beyond Apple level expensive.
Narg - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
I don't know anyone that would want a 15.6" laptop without a number pad. Bad design Lenovo.evilspoons - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
Me... I hate them cramming the numpad in the side, since I never use it and it offsets the entire keyboard. I don't even have a numpad on my desktop keyboard. I vastly prefer the layout the've gone with here, especially since it centres the touchpad and allows the keys to be the "proper" size.snake2332 - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
You must not know many people, haha! About half the IT people I know prefer centered keyboard and have no need for a 10-key.NICOXIS - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
I'm interested in seeing what kind of cooling solution they implemented here. Quadro P2000 seems to be based on the GTX 1060 but with fewer SPs and lower clocks but still pretty powerful for such a thin laptop.snake2332 - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
Guessing this laptop will throttle under load if you get a high-end CPU and the P2000. There isn't a slim laptop in the world that can cool well enough to handle full load on 7th-gen and newer i7/Xeon CPU's and 40W+ GPU's.NICOXIS - Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - link
I agree, I was just wondering how good is it in relation to its thinness. The T480 with eGPU has a nice dual heatpipe cooling system for example.nils_ - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
I guess they're still going with the oddly placed Fn Key. One thing that worries me is that manufacturers are trying to beat / match Apple on making their devices thinner than is practical, causing CPU throttling and keyboard issues. At some point a millimeter or a few grams less in weight don't really make the device more compelling - most of the time they'll sit on a desk or in a docking station. At least they don't glue / solder everything together, making it a nightmare to replace / service.snake2332 - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
My Yoga 720 15" went back to the better Fn + Ctrl key placement (Ctrl to the left of Fn). Kinda sad to see the P1 go back to the "wrong" layout.The Yoga keyboard also kind of sucks compared to the deeper Lenovo keyboards, like the one on the W530. I would rather the laptop be 2mm thicker and have a better keyboard, better cooling, and sturdier frame/deck.
evancox10 - Monday, August 13, 2018 - link
FYI every Thinkpad I've owned allows you to swap Ctrl and Fn in the BIOS. Still not ideal, but gets the job done.Bhuvanesh - Wednesday, October 3, 2018 - link
When thinkpad P1 is going to release in india ? so far they have showcased the laptop on their official website.