it sounds like Apple does not need that much power in GPU - I think the primary issue is that G components cause complete redesigned of motherboard - possibly MacBook AIR would have it. AMD GPU in the G models is probably only temporary - with Raju at Intel - Apple will probably switch to Artic Sound.
Well not entirely, since they use the T2 chip many system devices are proprietary (such as SSD). The touchbar is also a custom part though the benefit of that one is dubious. The keyboard is also proprietary. The only thing not proprietary may be the ram, cpu, chipset. I'm not sure the screen isn't proprietary seeing as I don't see any other laptops with that weird resolution.
The display isn't proprietary - historically there have been a number of other notebooks that use the same panel; just not many as most PC laptops tend to leapfrog from 1080p to 4K resolution. Apple use it as a double of the 1440x900 resolution that was their previous standard which never really caught on in laptops from other brands.
The equivalent XPS 15 on Dell's site has a list price of $2139, currently on sale for $1999. So the Macbook Pro is more expensive but not by a crazy amount for Apple.
Right, don't compare to a reputable competitor. Shocker that the Chinese company that steals everything including the name, that makes products the US government warns not to use... would be cheaper.
Are you actually serious and not that it older 4 core - it also has MX150 GP. As far as Windows based PC's Dell is the best in quality. Especially compare to the cheap Chinese stuff.
ROFL, Dell is not even close to being #1 at anything anymore. They where the best more than 10 years ago. Lenovo and HP are currently much better options for mainstream PC quality.
Before I bought my MacBook Pro I looked hard at the available PCs and found that you can't buy a PC with the same level of quality and components. You are looking at some of the parts. You can't even find a PC with a 3 stream AC wireless card and a fully functional Bluetooth module, you have to buy the Apple hardware and install it in a PC. PC users have a lower standard and focus too much on just the CPU and screen resolution. Dynamic white level? Which PC has that? Do you even know what that is? Good luck finding a PC with 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports, most are shitty USB-C that may be even fully functional.
Ultimately, you buy a Mac for OS X and the ecosystem. While Windows runs nice and fast on Mac hardware, few people do that. So why are you complaining?
$h!tty USB-C. Hmmm. That's an interesting point of view. Its wrong, but interesting.
One of the big difference between Apple and other brands is choice. In the Windows PC market you can find almost any combination of components that you need or fits your budget, or you just want. With Apple, not so much. You essentially take what they offer with a limited selection of models and options.
As to Thunderbolt 3 ports, the Lenovo I'm typing this on has a measly two....except its not measly because I really only need one. I use that to plug it into the dock. The second one isn't used and if I had two more, that would be three unused rather than just one. How does that help me. Now, if you need 4 then go for it. But don't call other products crap just because they don't meet your specific requirements. They aren't crap ... just not what you are looking for.
In all the online flame wars people seem to lose site of that whatever is best for me is golden and everything else is crap.
“One of the big difference between Apple and other brands is choice.“
I agree one of the big advantages of being a Windows user is the vast amount of hardware options. At the same time I think it’s a bit unfair to compare Apple with all of the Windows computer manufacturers out there, which something seems to happen. And like Shiitaki said people compare certain specs that they think is of value, not always seeing the whole thing.
For one thing the 2018 MBP and the iMacPro now both appear to use a custom SSD configuration. Two raw memory chips in parallel 'without' an onboard controller, managed by Apple's custom T-2 chip, which handles all of the i/o and on-the-fly-encryption instead of the CPU.
Proven iMacPro benchmarks show the read/write speeds to be well above 2GB/3GB per second. I've recently seen similar number for the 2018 MBP. Some assumed it was botched test, that the speed was a result of the APFS instant cloning, but the speed was verified using BlackMagic and various of benchmark tools that don't use the cloning feature.
I doubt you'll find that configuration or those speeds on any PC laptop, because you can't buy that configuration off the shelf.
The T2 also controls secure boot and security over the camera and microphone for an extra layer of security, instead the CPU/motherboard. Again, you won't find that on any PC.
It actually hard to compare the Dell XPS 15 to this Mac component. $2139 version of XPS has actually 32G memory 1T SSD compare to this Mac with 16G memory and 256G of storage.
Similar Apple would be whopping $3600 and even if the dell had optional 4K screen - it would be still less than $1000 on dell. Only nice thing about Apple it has 4 thunderbolt 3 ports.
On Dell's site the $2139 list / $1999 sale price was for the 256GB / 16GB / 4K display model. The 1TB / 32GB / 4K model is $2549.
The Dell does have a nice GPU and touchscreen so I think it does compare pretty favorably. Usually Apple is more expensive but they also tend to use high end NVME SSDs and very nice screens on their more expensive devices.
The more you upgrade each, the bigger the price disparity becomes. Upgrade each to an i9, 32GB RAM, and 1TB SSD, and the Apple comes out $940 more expensive than the Dell. Further upgrade each to a 2TB SSD, and the Apple becomes $1340 more expensive than the Dell. With a less capable GPU, to boot.
The area where the Apple reaches beyond the Dell is the available 4TB SSD, which isn't an option on the Dell. You don't want to know how much that option costs. :)
There appears to be way to big a focus on on a few individual specs here and not the overall package or how its put together.
I use a 2017 15" MBP (i7-7820HQ, 512GB SSD, R560Pro). All my colleagues around me at work use Dell's Precision 5520 laptops. Similar specs, but the Dell's throttle badly with thermal events.
I run VMWare Fusion with a Linux or Windows VM on the Mac along with about a dozen other apps. No throttling, ever. They don't even run VMs, that piece of *&^% McCaffe is enough to cause a thermal event.
So apart from Apple's faster, always encrypted SSD, the machine can run to its rated performance spec continuously. The reason is that Apple builds the machine using all aluminium alloy allowing it to use the rear section above the TouchBar as a mass heatsink from the CPU/GPU thermal pipe. It gets warm, but never super hot. And you never really touch that area anyway.
XPS 15 or Precision 55xx (the business version of the XPS) essentially use plastic (cheaper) which is poor as a thermal dissipator.
The use carbon fibre, not plastic. It's lighter and stronger than aluminium and conducts less heat towards the user. They do throttle like crazy, though, but removing McAfee would be a great start to having them perform better..!
An apple is never quicker than a pc for the same price. If you find throttling so important you can simply read reviews who test this. There are loads of laptops with better thermals than apples. Thats the beauty of pc laptops, you have choice.
Intel's ARK site does mentions 32 GB as Max Memory Size (DDR4-2400, LPDDR3-2133) for Core i5-8259U while the i7-8750H supports 64 GB. Is this not applicable for LPDDR3 even though it is mentioned on their site? Or is it Apple's choice of 8 GB as the limit for the 13-inch model?
Can't edit so replying to own comment. Apple's website does mention that the RAM on the new 13" models can be up to 16 GB - "Configurable to 16GB of memory". You may want to edit this.
16GB of LPDDR3 is the limit on the Intel chip for that type of memory - which is why they switched to DDR4 on the larger MBPs this time round, so get 32GB (and possibly 64GB like you mention if it uses SODIMMS and not soldered down RAM).
The keyboard is still an ergonomic fail. The touchbar is still a total gimmick that doesn't belong on pro level hardware. Still no nvidia option and the same old AMD solutions.
To add insult to injury they decided to not update the entry level 13" macbook. Most certainly to drive sales of the higher margin models and at the same time force adoption of the above mentioned gimmick bar.
Still, it's not all doom and gloom. I like True tone. All OEMs should do that. I also like the notion of a separate controller that ensures drive encryption without any performance penalty of the CPU - ofc since it's a proprietary solution that also removes any 3rd party upgrade option, not that macusers care about this anyway.
Your opinions, while you have right to them, do not constitute a 'universal truth'. They're just you're opinions no matter the invective used to express them.
I never used the Function keys that the Touch Bar replaced and I use the Touch Bar far more often. So it works for me. if doesn't for you, plenty of Windows laptops to chose from.
And I much prefer the keyboard, sharper than the previous gens that were mushy by comparison.
I agree with this comment. I manage macs for a major ad agency and have to toss the 2017 macbook pro with touchbar for the previous model. The keybaorr AND trackpad are infuriating. Absolute overengineered trash. I told my CTO after numerous complaints from many users, to stop buying the "new macbook". The generation before was perfect. They should have refined it. Now we are buying the older model from 3rd parties at 2/3rd the cost.
The Huawei LPTS IPS screens are gorgeous indeed. This macbook pro refrehs is past due but if apple managed to (1) cool the six core cpu down better than the competition (shame on you dell/hp with your plasticky heating fireballs throttling garbage pc) and (2) keep a decent battery life, then we might be on something. it is very overpriced at launch as usual but deals with come soon.
really keen to see how the T2 helps battery life by unloading the cpu and if the screen management optimization does a difference
I'd lay most of the blame on Intel for that. They released a mid-gen-refresh that behaves substantially differently from its immediate predecessor regarding thermals and power draw; expecting OEMs to do total cooling system redesigns for it is a bit much.
I don't pay Apple margins so that they can be too lazy to not redesign a heatsink in a year to accommodate an i9. That it throttles past the base clock to below the i7 is stupid.
Is Apple not using the new Titan Ridge ThunderBolt 3 controller to provide DP 1.3/1.4 support in these models? Kinda odd as Intel has been shipping these chips earlier this year.
Apple probably did not use Titan Ridge because it would probably mean motherboard redesigned - instead they work put in new GPU is existing motherboards.
The GPUs are hardly new, not only the architecture but the chip configuration is the exact same, it just uses process node refinements to clock higher.
These changes sound like a combination of solid improvements and smart compromises. That said, as others have stated, I think that as the years pass there is less and less that makes the rMBP line stand out (in terms of hardware) compared to other manufacturers. I also don't know if these changes are enough to reverse my modest-but-not-extreme dislike for the touchbar generation in general.
A few months ago my work laptop (a base-model 2015 15" rMBP with no dGPU) was swapped out for a 2016 15" rMBP. Ignoring the pain of migrating the data from an HFS+ disk on Sierra to an APFS disk on High Sierra (which was not the laptop's fault - and in fact mostly my fault), most of the rest of my experience with the new touchbar design has been negative.
On overall hardware performance: With my workloads I was more constricted by the 16GB of RAM rather than CPU speed. Still, the Skylake CPU doesn't feel much faster than the Haswell + eDRAM in my old machine. This is an area where the 2018 refresh would address my needs.
The additional GPU performance is "neat" in theory, but it isn't fast enough to make it interesting for dual-booting into Windows to play games, so I really don't use the additional GPU power. The tradeoff I lament is the power draw penalty that comes with it. It doesn't help that the video chat platform my company uses is terrible and results in firing up the dGPU and then just BURNING power. This is where my non-dGPU machine shined. Performance during a conference call doesn't seem any different, but the iGPU really sipped power by comparison.
This segues into battery life - I feel like I'm always having to charge the machine. The 2015 non-dGPU model was probably the pinnacle of battery life in the 15" rMBP range. It still had the huge 99.5Wh battery but with no dGPU to burden it, it would just last and last. I feel like if I could manually dim the touchbar, or make it go to sleep more quickly I'd be able to get some battery life back, but that doesn't seem to be allowed.
I thought that only having USB-C ports would be a huge inconvenience, but after buying a couple USB-C to USB-A adapters I'm mostly set. Of course I haven't yet had to connect an external display... I'm not looking forward to having to pay for that privilege.
On the formfactor and keyboard: The pre-touchbar rMBPs were already arguably the thinnest and lightest machines you could get with a quad-core CPU and more GPU performance than the base Intel iGPU (yes I'm counting GT3 + eDRAM as more performance and of course there were dGPU options). Making the devices thinner and lighter helps them hold the crown I guess, but the compromises on the battery capacity and keyboard don't feel worth it.
The keyboard doesn't feel *bad* to me, just different. My main complaint is actually the noise. On conference calls you HAVE to mute while typing or else you drown out whoever is speaking. Heaven forbid if you have to type while you are speaking.
On the touchbar: I'm probably not the target audience to be taking advantage of the enhancements it can provide so it feels like they changed paradigms for the sake of change. I'm always missing the "Esc" key which I can no longer find by feel. I miss being able to turn volume or brightness up or down a notch (or two) by just mindlessly tapping a button. Now it is either: tap a button and mess with a slider, or perform a different tap just to get the simple up and down back. I know these sound like whiny quibbles, but something that was so elegantly perfect before is now seemingly unnecessarily complicated. I'd customize the touchbar to just always show the toggle up and toggle down for brightness and volume, but that doesn't seem to be allowed.
I know that I've basically just ranted about the things that I dislike about the rMBP, but the one thing that I've consistently loved about Apple laptops is the battery longevity. I don't mean how many hours you get out of a charge - but rather how many years of usable life you get out of the battery. In owning and servicing numerous Asus, HP, Dell, Acer, Lenovo, etc laptops over the years I've always noticed how after a few years a lot of those batteries hold only a fraction of their original charge (usually at least 1 cell in the battery has died) or no charge at all (you unplug it and the machine just powers off). Several of those machines have been mine, and I *really* try to practice good charging... well... practices.
For what it is worth, I mostly "solved" the shortcomings of the rMBP by building an 8-core 64GB desktop "workstation" with 5TB of SSDs and 2x 1440p displays, but I still travel for work a reasonable bit and have to attend meetings in conference rooms -- and I can't bring my workstation for those tasks.
I too miss the convenience of up/down wolume buttons but there are some options that can help, from worst to best (IMO): a) you can change a system preference to display a full system Touch Bar. This full bar includes volume up/down buttons but youdo lose the app specific Touch Bar (which is kind of the whole point of the thing) b) tap with a brief hold on the volume button and it converts to a slider which is a nice shortcut c) my favorite, you can flick right or left on the volume button to do up or down
I had tried to find your "a)" but all I'd found was the "Customize Touchbar" in the Finder "View" menu. Didin't think there'd be touchbar settings in System Preferences under Keyboard since the thing is called a touchbar... but it kinda makes sense -- it is replacing part of the keyboard.
I think if they say they're missing it then where it *actually* is isn't much help; it's about where your brain is trained to think it is. Apple are supposed to be hot on not messing up that sort of thing.
What kind of display do you need to plug in? HDMI? DisplayPort? I bought a Plugable USB-C to DisplayPort (full-size connector, not mDP) cable from Amazon for $19.95 and it works great (4K@60Hz on my Dell P2415Q).
Cable Matters makes a mini DisplayPort to USB-C cable ($17.99) or a USB-C to HDMI cable ($17.99) which are readily available as well. I have not tried either of them as I don't have a real use for it, but I do have other Cable Matters USB-C cables and they seem to work fine.
I haven't even looked into DVI or VGA solutions. Good luck!
Battery doesn't last as long as I would like, but it does better than I thought it would. Hopefully, we will see more power efficiency in apps as the tools allow developer to measure it are introduced.
Yeah... I know... I'll probably end up getting an adapter so that I can use HDMI. The USB-C to USB-A adapters I bought were the inexpensive Amazon Basics ones, so I've done some shopping. I've just collected a box of all the cables and adapters you'd possibly need over the years, not by buying them, but by having them come with displays, graphics cards, and other electronics.
I've bought a few HDMI cables over the years, but otherwise I have a healthy supply of VGA, DVI, and DisplayPort cables along with DVI-I to VGA, HDMI to DVI, and DVI to HDMI adapters.
"in 2012, as quad-core 45W CPUs have been a staple Intel product – and staple of the 15-inch MBP – since then"
Actually 45W 4-core CPUs started earlier than that. I don't remember if Core 2 Quad were ever mobile/45W, but Core i7-720QM and Core i7-820QM were, since 2009. https://ark.intel.com/products/43122 https://ark.intel.com/products/43124 If Apple did not use them (did it?), it is not Intel's fault.
One note on 8705G or higher end version, the CPU I believe is 45W also - just that EMIB has GPU on it also which raises the power 65W and 100W.
Also interesting that Apple is using Polaris GPU and this is likely because unlike Windows, I believe Apple writes there code directly to the GPU. 870xG GPU maybe closer to Polaris for this reason.
Configuring on the apple store, a fully kitted out 15" MBP comes to :drum roll: $10745.00 NZ (free shipping though.) You can spec it up to 32GB of 2400MHz DDR4 memory though....
also curious about how well the machine will dissipate that much heat (on a higher specc'd model) and what battery life will be like...
Apple is expensive, the Touchbar is a worthless extravagance, that just increases cost for them in an attempt to "add value". I am not sure whether the target audience is retail, or institutional buyers, but from my perspective of an organization that buys thousands of professional laptops per year: Apple is OK for software professionals - good screens, compact and rugged chassis, stable software fine for Internet UI or text editors - when writing code and going to meetings,it is perfect. Probably equally good for marketing and sales people, as far as they don't need to have fancy databases access and reporting. OK for simple office administration and calendar scheduling - most of those are done in "cloud" apps anyway aka in a browser. Apple is hard for unified encryption support (what my Security dept tells me), and unusable for financial and accounting /including the entire business process chain/ in Oracle or SAP. That eventually means no go for PeopleSoft and Taleo as well as Tableau... An OK speced MBPro costs me around $2500+$200ish warranty. An OK speced Dell costs around $1800 plus the warranty is included for 4 years...MBPro is kinda equal to Dell Lattitude. Dell also offers a Precission line, which is totally different and way above Apple's line. It comes with better screens, way better processors and therefore easier and better infrastructure integration for large scale corporate software. It does cost at least twice than the MBPro line though, so it is not direct competitor, but at least you should now know that sth much better than Apple exists :) Dell XPS is a consumer grade ultra compact, comparable to MB Air. Don't judge it against MBPro. Current MB Air is simply a trash. TN screen in a laptop above $200 price is a ghetto... Apple was dearly falling behind in laptops, and this update was due for a long time. Apple was smart enough not to increase prices and make itself further irrelevant for corporate purchases. But yeah, it is overpriced, and usually not considered first purchase choice by large organizations :)
"Dell also offers a Precission line, which is totally different and way above Apple's line. It comes with better screens, way better processors and therefore easier and better infrastructure integration for large scale corporate software. "
This is false. I have direct experience of Dell Precision laptops (5520) and they consistently throttle the CPU due to thermal events whenever the processor is pushed to perform seriously. The Thermal system is inadequate for the CPU/GPU they have. No MBP throttles as far as I know, since they have better thermal dissipation and the chassis itself acts as a giant heatsink (behind the TouchBar).
You cannot pretend you have a higher spec'd machine if that machines consistently throttles under load, preventing you from using those specs.
Also, the screens are not better. if its just about resolution, you can equip it with a 4k which is higher than the MBP's 3k but a screen is more than just resolution.
You've chosen to comment on the one Precision laptop that's not really a PrRecision, though. It's an XPS 15 with the Intel rebrand Pro stuff in it (i.e. it's exactly the same as the consumer line with some hardware switches left on).
The high-end screens on the "proper" precision workstations are objectively better than the display on the MBP in various metrics. Of course they're also not as slim as the MBP, so there's that..?
I had a 2014 15" rMBP that throttled all the time, although if I had to guess that would have been inevitable in virtually any mobile chassis. The machine had the optional i7-4980HQ (4.0GHz single core turbo and 3.8GHz 4-core turbo) and the Nvidia GT 750M (sadly Kepler, not Maxwell as the "750" would imply on the desktop model).
Throw a constant heavy workload at it and the CPU would throttle back from its peak 3.8GHz all-core turbo to somewhere in the 3.3 to 3.5GHz range. Throw a graphical load in there as well and it would throttle down to 3.1GHz. In the process the chassis would get quite hot. This left it not much faster than the base CPU for sustained workloads.
Admittedly, I feel that Intel was being a bit optimistic labeling the top-spec Haswell + Crystalwell mobile chips with the same TDP as the "lower end" models (like the base 4770HQ). In the standard non-Crystalwell Haswell line as well as most of their previous mobile lines (like Ivy, Sandy, and Clarksfield) they gave the top spec CPUs a ~10W higher TDP.
It is also entirely possible that the i7-4980HQ in my particular machine was of lower-than-average bin for that model.
"Dell Precision laptops... ...consistently throttle" We have exactly 1 Dell Precision laptop at the company. It is an M4800 with an i7-Core i7-4910MQ. I haven't spent a whole lot of time with it, but I don't *believe* it throttles, or if it does it isn't nearly as bad as the rMBP I was discussing above. Of course the laptop is almost twice as thick as the rMBP and has a huge loud fan, but that's what it takes to keep a high-end Haswell Quad cool in a mobile chassis.
I'm sorry - no MBP throttles? In which universe? They've always throttled, but it's worse this time around with the i9, it's not an adequate thermal system for it.
Also as mentioned the model you chose to compare is a rebadged XPS 15. The Precisions you can throw your back on of course have more thermal headroom, as you'd expect. They weigh twice as much as the XPS 15/5520, that's the tradeoff.
Given that both the XPS 15 and MBP 15 throttle, and especially on the i9, I'm curious which does worse.
If Microsort would rix Windows 10 GUI I honestly think Apple would take a huge stock hit. Windows is really holding back PC sales in it's durrent state.
I don't think the 90% of the market care or 'know' what's wrong or right with Windows 10. What's holding back the PC market is 5 year old PCs are still perfectly good for browsing the web and MS Office tasks, the vast majority of consumer PC use.
Well Apple forced my hand. I had been waiting as long as I could to "upgrade" my 2012 Retina MBP. I try to get at least 6.5 years out of my laptops, preferrably 7. But after only 6 years, I have to upgrade. Because they no longer offer the superior 2015 rMBP on their store site, and have moved it to 'clearance'. I can't wait any more because of the chance that they'll stop selling the 2015 model altogether. So I put my order in on the Apple store.
Yes, I am one of the people who are so serious about *hating* the touch bar, removed ports, removed magsafe, bad keyboard (and lost glowing Apple logo!) ... that I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, and in 2018 I have bought a "new" 2015 rMBP from the Apple store.
I only pray that in 6.5 years time, Apple has finally pulled their head out of their ass and started building good laptops again.
I really miss the magsafe. Wife has had two apple laptops over the years, and is looking to get her third. I'm thinking of upgrading her current one from a mechanical HDD to a SSD, which would probably make it last four more years. Like you, I'm not thrilled with this generation of laptop from Apple. Her others have been great though.
"... only the Touch Bar-equipped models are being updated. That means that the non-touch 13-inch MBP, the cheapest models of the MBP family, remain unchanged with their Kaby Lake-era hardware... this may ruffle a few feathers..."
I think this is the right move as it benefits consumers (I'll explain) and I actually hoped they'd keep the 7th gen 15W SKUs for the base model. The 15W 8th gen SKUs do not have Iris graphics, which I think you must have in a Pro model. If they were to put an 8th gen CPU in the base model, you'd have had a CPU with lower single-threaded performance, and much weaker graphics (24 EUs vs. 48 EUs + 64MB eDRAM), which would make for a slower laptop overall. Sure, a quad-core CPU, albeit one clocked lower, would make some tasks faster, but the 7th gen 15W would definitely be better for the more general user, and not only actually, who must also be the target audience for the base model.
Of course, you could make the argument that if the chassis is capable of handling 28W then that's what you should be getting in all models. I agree. But as things stand, if the base model, which costs $500 less, has to have a 15W CPU, 7th gen is definitely the way to go.
But it doesn't have to have a 15W CPU, they just decided it will. That whole argument is a bit like trying to figure out what you did that made your spouse hit you... the clue is that they'll hit you whether you give them a reason or not, and Apple will always cripple their low-cost devices to make you buy the pricier ones (see the "base" iMac").
Loving the i9 but is the chassis enough to keep it cooled? Otherwise the chip bump would be worthless due to throttling..,that keyboard is the main reason I’ve still got my old machine...
You'll probably end up waiting till the end of time. Apple has barely ever upgraded the MBAs, took forever to upgrade the MBPs and even then people weren't happy until just now, and has let the MP and Mini languish for a long time. When you look at their portfolio it's actually pretty amazing how few products get regular updates: iMac, iPhone, and iPad. That's Apple right there.
DDR4 would have had a bigger impact on the smaller battery probably. It's annoying since they now have perfectly good performing quad cores in there that can do heavier workloads that may want more RAM, but be annoyed at Intel for not supporting LPDDR4.
Whoa. That touchpad is huge. Partially jealous, partially laughing at the ridiculous size. I cannot imagine needing so much trackpad. But then I don't need to do 4 finger swipes I guess.
Just checked youtube review... 15" i9 version can only maintain 2.2Ghz!!!!!! of clock speed under full load. That's almost a full HALF of top turbo speed!!!!
I feel sorry for the ignorant people who will spend $4K for this.
I personally love the butterfly keyboard. Now, before the hate posts, let me point out that the 2016 one was nothing but trouble for me. I tried out a friend's 2016 MacBook pro and it was a string of typos. I was worried when I came due for a work replacement but took the 2017 anyway, and it is a huge improvement, at least for how I type. The difference is subtle to the touch but there was some weird feedback for me on the 2016 that produced mistakes.
I put a silicone mat keyboard protector on the 2017 just to pre-empt any dust; it's still faster for me to type on than the widely regarded 2013 Retina keyboard and I'm looking at probably close to the same speed as the 100-120wpm I get on a desktop. It's just with each new generation of keyboard I have go lighter on the keys. I like that.
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trane - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Surprised to see not even one model ship with Kaby Lake-G. I suppose we'll have to wait for Coffee Lake-G (?) to reach parity on CPU core count.Flunk - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
The full fat Kaby Lake-G is a 100W TDP part, even the neutered version has a 65W TDP. That's likely why Apple isn't using it.HStewart - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
it sounds like Apple does not need that much power in GPU - I think the primary issue is that G components cause complete redesigned of motherboard - possibly MacBook AIR would have it. AMD GPU in the G models is probably only temporary - with Raju at Intel - Apple will probably switch to Artic Sound.e36Jeff - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
the i7-8750H is 45W and the 555X is 100W. Even a 100W Kaby Lake-G would be significantly lower power than that combo.Tegeril - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
The Radeon Pro 555X and 560X are nowhere near 100W. These are different parts for mobile that share components of naming.WinterCharm - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
555 and 560X are both 35W TDP parts from AMD. Polaris 11 mobile variants are all 35W TDP'stipoo - Tuesday, July 17, 2018 - link
Off by about triple. If it was 100W it could have fit full Vega. Every Radeon Pro in these is 35W.Kevin G - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Wait for the Mac Mini update.zepi - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
It could also be that Intel/AMD cannot produce those in quantities that Apple would need if they used it in high profile products.goatfajitas - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Love the 16x10 aspect ratio and (what I am sure is) a very high quality screen, but it's all standard parts. Why on Earth is this worth $2400invinciblegod - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Well not entirely, since they use the T2 chip many system devices are proprietary (such as SSD). The touchbar is also a custom part though the benefit of that one is dubious. The keyboard is also proprietary. The only thing not proprietary may be the ram, cpu, chipset. I'm not sure the screen isn't proprietary seeing as I don't see any other laptops with that weird resolution.HStewart - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
I believe that T2 chip is the ARM chip people talk about in the pass similar to what is iPad's and iPhone but for specific purpose on Mac's.Spunjji - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
The display isn't proprietary - historically there have been a number of other notebooks that use the same panel; just not many as most PC laptops tend to leapfrog from 1080p to 4K resolution. Apple use it as a double of the 1440x900 resolution that was their previous standard which never really caught on in laptops from other brands.SirPerro - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
It's $2400 because the price is not decided by the product but rather by the demand.stetrain - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
The equivalent XPS 15 on Dell's site has a list price of $2139, currently on sale for $1999. So the Macbook Pro is more expensive but not by a crazy amount for Apple.goatfajitas - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Sure, but Dell... The worst large company that still makes PC's... Try the Huawei Matebook X Pro or something similar.stetrain - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Is there a 15" Matebook Pro X with 6 cores? I think they only have an equivalent to the 13" Macbook Pro CPU and form factor wise.weevilone - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Right, don't compare to a reputable competitor. Shocker that the Chinese company that steals everything including the name, that makes products the US government warns not to use... would be cheaper.HStewart - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Are you actually serious and not that it older 4 core - it also has MX150 GP. As far as Windows based PC's Dell is the best in quality. Especially compare to the cheap Chinese stuff.Einy0 - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
ROFL, Dell is not even close to being #1 at anything anymore. They where the best more than 10 years ago. Lenovo and HP are currently much better options for mainstream PC quality.piroroadkill - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
Worst? Have you really dealt with many dell machines at all?WasHopingForAnHonestReview - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
He does notShiitaki - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Before I bought my MacBook Pro I looked hard at the available PCs and found that you can't buy a PC with the same level of quality and components. You are looking at some of the parts. You can't even find a PC with a 3 stream AC wireless card and a fully functional Bluetooth module, you have to buy the Apple hardware and install it in a PC. PC users have a lower standard and focus too much on just the CPU and screen resolution. Dynamic white level? Which PC has that? Do you even know what that is? Good luck finding a PC with 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports, most are shitty USB-C that may be even fully functional.Ultimately, you buy a Mac for OS X and the ecosystem. While Windows runs nice and fast on Mac hardware, few people do that. So why are you complaining?
Ratman6161 - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
$h!tty USB-C. Hmmm. That's an interesting point of view. Its wrong, but interesting.One of the big difference between Apple and other brands is choice. In the Windows PC market you can find almost any combination of components that you need or fits your budget, or you just want. With Apple, not so much. You essentially take what they offer with a limited selection of models and options.
As to Thunderbolt 3 ports, the Lenovo I'm typing this on has a measly two....except its not measly because I really only need one. I use that to plug it into the dock. The second one isn't used and if I had two more, that would be three unused rather than just one. How does that help me. Now, if you need 4 then go for it. But don't call other products crap just because they don't meet your specific requirements. They aren't crap ... just not what you are looking for.
In all the online flame wars people seem to lose site of that whatever is best for me is golden and everything else is crap.
star-affinity - Wednesday, August 1, 2018 - link
“One of the big difference between Apple and other brands is choice.“I agree one of the big advantages of being a Windows user is the vast amount of hardware options. At the same time I think it’s a bit unfair to compare Apple with all of the Windows computer manufacturers out there, which something seems to happen. And like Shiitaki said people compare certain specs that they think is of value, not always seeing the whole thing.
WasHopingForAnHonestReview - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
Shiitaki you got to be an Apple shill or fanboi. None of what you said is true.robotManThingy - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link
For one thing the 2018 MBP and the iMacPro now both appear to use a custom SSD configuration. Two raw memory chips in parallel 'without' an onboard controller, managed by Apple's custom T-2 chip, which handles all of the i/o and on-the-fly-encryption instead of the CPU.Proven iMacPro benchmarks show the read/write speeds to be well above 2GB/3GB per second. I've recently seen similar number for the 2018 MBP. Some assumed it was botched test, that the speed was a result of the APFS instant cloning, but the speed was verified using BlackMagic and various of benchmark tools that don't use the cloning feature.
I doubt you'll find that configuration or those speeds on any PC laptop, because you can't buy that configuration off the shelf.
The T2 also controls secure boot and security over the camera and microphone for an extra layer of security, instead the CPU/motherboard. Again, you won't find that on any PC.
HStewart - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
It actually hard to compare the Dell XPS 15 to this Mac component. $2139 version of XPS has actually 32G memory 1T SSD compare to this Mac with 16G memory and 256G of storage.Similar Apple would be whopping $3600 and even if the dell had optional 4K screen - it would be still less than $1000 on dell. Only nice thing about Apple it has 4 thunderbolt 3 ports.
stetrain - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
On Dell's site the $2139 list / $1999 sale price was for the 256GB / 16GB / 4K display model. The 1TB / 32GB / 4K model is $2549.The Dell does have a nice GPU and touchscreen so I think it does compare pretty favorably. Usually Apple is more expensive but they also tend to use high end NVME SSDs and very nice screens on their more expensive devices.
LauRoman - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Link please, and i would bet my ass, even with that price difference, the XPS is way more serviceable, and probably has a better keyboard...tyger11 - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
The more you upgrade each, the bigger the price disparity becomes. Upgrade each to an i9, 32GB RAM, and 1TB SSD, and the Apple comes out $940 more expensive than the Dell. Further upgrade each to a 2TB SSD, and the Apple becomes $1340 more expensive than the Dell. With a less capable GPU, to boot.The area where the Apple reaches beyond the Dell is the available 4TB SSD, which isn't an option on the Dell. You don't want to know how much that option costs. :)
darklight69 - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
There appears to be way to big a focus on on a few individual specs here and not the overall package or how its put together.I use a 2017 15" MBP (i7-7820HQ, 512GB SSD, R560Pro). All my colleagues around me at work use Dell's Precision 5520 laptops. Similar specs, but the Dell's throttle badly with thermal events.
I run VMWare Fusion with a Linux or Windows VM on the Mac along with about a dozen other apps. No throttling, ever. They don't even run VMs, that piece of *&^% McCaffe is enough to cause a thermal event.
So apart from Apple's faster, always encrypted SSD, the machine can run to its rated performance spec continuously. The reason is that Apple builds the machine using all aluminium alloy allowing it to use the rear section above the TouchBar as a mass heatsink from the CPU/GPU thermal pipe. It gets warm, but never super hot. And you never really touch that area anyway.
XPS 15 or Precision 55xx (the business version of the XPS) essentially use plastic (cheaper) which is poor as a thermal dissipator.
Spunjji - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
The use carbon fibre, not plastic. It's lighter and stronger than aluminium and conducts less heat towards the user. They do throttle like crazy, though, but removing McAfee would be a great start to having them perform better..!nzweers - Sunday, July 15, 2018 - link
An apple is never quicker than a pc for the same price. If you find throttling so important you can simply read reviews who test this. There are loads of laptops with better thermals than apples. Thats the beauty of pc laptops, you have choice.Spunjji - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
The equivalent Dell is faster than the Apple device - significantly so on the GPU side of things. It also has a better keyboard!Teckk - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Intel's ARK site does mentions 32 GB as Max Memory Size (DDR4-2400, LPDDR3-2133) for Core i5-8259U while the i7-8750H supports 64 GB. Is this not applicable for LPDDR3 even though it is mentioned on their site? Or is it Apple's choice of 8 GB as the limit for the 13-inch model?Teckk - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Can't edit so replying to own comment. Apple's website does mention that the RAM on the new 13" models can be up to 16 GB - "Configurable to 16GB of memory". You may want to edit this.Teckk - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Sorry, my bad. Got confused, but my earlier question if someone can clarify it'll help ! :)psychobriggsy - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
16GB of LPDDR3 is the limit on the Intel chip for that type of memory - which is why they switched to DDR4 on the larger MBPs this time round, so get 32GB (and possibly 64GB like you mention if it uses SODIMMS and not soldered down RAM).Spunjji - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
The RAM is soldered on all of these models.jabber - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Man they look so tired and boring. At least offer some nice solid primary colours or something.Dug - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Go check out the sweet Acer laptop that Anandtech just showed off!star-affinity - Wednesday, August 1, 2018 - link
I think that “Space Gray” looks awesome.id4andrei - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
The keyboard is still an ergonomic fail.The touchbar is still a total gimmick that doesn't belong on pro level hardware.
Still no nvidia option and the same old AMD solutions.
To add insult to injury they decided to not update the entry level 13" macbook. Most certainly to drive sales of the higher margin models and at the same time force adoption of the above mentioned gimmick bar.
Still, it's not all doom and gloom. I like True tone. All OEMs should do that. I also like the notion of a separate controller that ensures drive encryption without any performance penalty of the CPU - ofc since it's a proprietary solution that also removes any 3rd party upgrade option, not that macusers care about this anyway.
Hectandan - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Very well said. Some features like true tone are nice but the keyboard is utter garbage, especially the touchbar.darklight69 - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Your opinions, while you have right to them, do not constitute a 'universal truth'. They're just you're opinions no matter the invective used to express them.I never used the Function keys that the Touch Bar replaced and I use the Touch Bar far more often. So it works for me. if doesn't for you, plenty of Windows laptops to chose from.
And I much prefer the keyboard, sharper than the previous gens that were mushy by comparison.
WasHopingForAnHonestReview - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
"Your opinion is just an opinion".Whats the point of this other than to show your unhappiness with another's opinion?
TEAMSWITCHER - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
PC's will never have anything like the touch bar.. It's Function Keys until the end of time... Enjoy!nzweers - Sunday, July 15, 2018 - link
If you find a touch bar important. Just get a pc laptop with a touch screen. Or a gaming laptop if you like weird controls.doggface - Monday, July 16, 2018 - link
Your right my Lenovo yoga doesn't have a touchbar... Instead it has a 360 degree hinge, a touch screen and a stylus...I am super sad. :(
WasHopingForAnHonestReview - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
I agree with this comment. I manage macs for a major ad agency and have to toss the 2017 macbook pro with touchbar for the previous model. The keybaorr AND trackpad are infuriating. Absolute overengineered trash. I told my CTO after numerous complaints from many users, to stop buying the "new macbook". The generation before was perfect. They should have refined it. Now we are buying the older model from 3rd parties at 2/3rd the cost.agent2099 - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Been loving my macbooks since 2012 but seriously Huawei is making me turn my head.PaulPogba - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
The Huawei LPTS IPS screens are gorgeous indeed. This macbook pro refrehs is past due but if apple managed to (1) cool the six core cpu down better than the competition (shame on you dell/hp with your plasticky heating fireballs throttling garbage pc) and (2) keep a decent battery life, then we might be on something. it is very overpriced at launch as usual but deals with come soon.really keen to see how the T2 helps battery life by unloading the cpu and if the screen management optimization does a difference
Spunjji - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
I'd lay most of the blame on Intel for that. They released a mid-gen-refresh that behaves substantially differently from its immediate predecessor regarding thermals and power draw; expecting OEMs to do total cooling system redesigns for it is a bit much.ws3 - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
Why is that too much to ask? Who is selling the PC, Intel or the OEM? If the OEM can’t be bothered to design their products well, whose fault is that?tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
I don't pay Apple margins so that they can be too lazy to not redesign a heatsink in a year to accommodate an i9. That it throttles past the base clock to below the i7 is stupid.https://t.co/TrSgnJSvWc
Kevin G - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Is Apple not using the new Titan Ridge ThunderBolt 3 controller to provide DP 1.3/1.4 support in these models? Kinda odd as Intel has been shipping these chips earlier this year.HStewart - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Apple probably did not use Titan Ridge because it would probably mean motherboard redesigned - instead they work put in new GPU is existing motherboards.tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
The GPUs are hardly new, not only the architecture but the chip configuration is the exact same, it just uses process node refinements to clock higher.MrCommunistGen - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
These changes sound like a combination of solid improvements and smart compromises. That said, as others have stated, I think that as the years pass there is less and less that makes the rMBP line stand out (in terms of hardware) compared to other manufacturers. I also don't know if these changes are enough to reverse my modest-but-not-extreme dislike for the touchbar generation in general.A few months ago my work laptop (a base-model 2015 15" rMBP with no dGPU) was swapped out for a 2016 15" rMBP. Ignoring the pain of migrating the data from an HFS+ disk on Sierra to an APFS disk on High Sierra (which was not the laptop's fault - and in fact mostly my fault), most of the rest of my experience with the new touchbar design has been negative.
On overall hardware performance:
With my workloads I was more constricted by the 16GB of RAM rather than CPU speed. Still, the Skylake CPU doesn't feel much faster than the Haswell + eDRAM in my old machine. This is an area where the 2018 refresh would address my needs.
The additional GPU performance is "neat" in theory, but it isn't fast enough to make it interesting for dual-booting into Windows to play games, so I really don't use the additional GPU power. The tradeoff I lament is the power draw penalty that comes with it. It doesn't help that the video chat platform my company uses is terrible and results in firing up the dGPU and then just BURNING power. This is where my non-dGPU machine shined. Performance during a conference call doesn't seem any different, but the iGPU really sipped power by comparison.
This segues into battery life - I feel like I'm always having to charge the machine. The 2015 non-dGPU model was probably the pinnacle of battery life in the 15" rMBP range. It still had the huge 99.5Wh battery but with no dGPU to burden it, it would just last and last. I feel like if I could manually dim the touchbar, or make it go to sleep more quickly I'd be able to get some battery life back, but that doesn't seem to be allowed.
I thought that only having USB-C ports would be a huge inconvenience, but after buying a couple USB-C to USB-A adapters I'm mostly set. Of course I haven't yet had to connect an external display... I'm not looking forward to having to pay for that privilege.
On the formfactor and keyboard:
The pre-touchbar rMBPs were already arguably the thinnest and lightest machines you could get with a quad-core CPU and more GPU performance than the base Intel iGPU (yes I'm counting GT3 + eDRAM as more performance and of course there were dGPU options). Making the devices thinner and lighter helps them hold the crown I guess, but the compromises on the battery capacity and keyboard don't feel worth it.
The keyboard doesn't feel *bad* to me, just different. My main complaint is actually the noise. On conference calls you HAVE to mute while typing or else you drown out whoever is speaking. Heaven forbid if you have to type while you are speaking.
On the touchbar:
I'm probably not the target audience to be taking advantage of the enhancements it can provide so it feels like they changed paradigms for the sake of change. I'm always missing the "Esc" key which I can no longer find by feel. I miss being able to turn volume or brightness up or down a notch (or two) by just mindlessly tapping a button. Now it is either: tap a button and mess with a slider, or perform a different tap just to get the simple up and down back. I know these sound like whiny quibbles, but something that was so elegantly perfect before is now seemingly unnecessarily complicated. I'd customize the touchbar to just always show the toggle up and toggle down for brightness and volume, but that doesn't seem to be allowed.
I know that I've basically just ranted about the things that I dislike about the rMBP, but the one thing that I've consistently loved about Apple laptops is the battery longevity. I don't mean how many hours you get out of a charge - but rather how many years of usable life you get out of the battery. In owning and servicing numerous Asus, HP, Dell, Acer, Lenovo, etc laptops over the years I've always noticed how after a few years a lot of those batteries hold only a fraction of their original charge (usually at least 1 cell in the battery has died) or no charge at all (you unplug it and the machine just powers off). Several of those machines have been mine, and I *really* try to practice good charging... well... practices.
MrCommunistGen - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
For what it is worth, I mostly "solved" the shortcomings of the rMBP by building an 8-core 64GB desktop "workstation" with 5TB of SSDs and 2x 1440p displays, but I still travel for work a reasonable bit and have to attend meetings in conference rooms -- and I can't bring my workstation for those tasks.chetw - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
I too miss the convenience of up/down wolume buttons but there are some options that can help, from worst to best (IMO):a) you can change a system preference to display a full system Touch Bar. This full bar includes volume up/down buttons but youdo lose the app specific Touch Bar (which is kind of the whole point of the thing)
b) tap with a brief hold on the volume button and it converts to a slider which is a nice shortcut
c) my favorite, you can flick right or left on the volume button to do up or down
MrCommunistGen - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
THANK YOU SO MUCH!I had tried to find your "a)" but all I'd found was the "Customize Touchbar" in the Finder "View" menu. Didin't think there'd be touchbar settings in System Preferences under Keyboard since the thing is called a touchbar... but it kinda makes sense -- it is replacing part of the keyboard.
Was completely unaware of b) and c).
darklight69 - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
"I'm always missing the "Esc" key which I can no longer find by feel."The "ESC" key extends all the way to the left edge of the Touch Bar, so you don't actually have to hit the 'esc' graphic itself.
Spunjji - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
I think if they say they're missing it then where it *actually* is isn't much help; it's about where your brain is trained to think it is. Apple are supposed to be hot on not messing up that sort of thing.Zdigital2017 - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
What kind of display do you need to plug in? HDMI? DisplayPort? I bought a Plugable USB-C to DisplayPort (full-size connector, not mDP) cable from Amazon for $19.95 and it works great (4K@60Hz on my Dell P2415Q).Cable Matters makes a mini DisplayPort to USB-C cable ($17.99) or a USB-C to HDMI cable ($17.99) which are readily available as well. I have not tried either of them as I don't have a real use for it, but I do have other Cable Matters USB-C cables and they seem to work fine.
I haven't even looked into DVI or VGA solutions. Good luck!
Battery doesn't last as long as I would like, but it does better than I thought it would. Hopefully, we will see more power efficiency in apps as the tools allow developer to measure it are introduced.
MrCommunistGen - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
Yeah... I know... I'll probably end up getting an adapter so that I can use HDMI. The USB-C to USB-A adapters I bought were the inexpensive Amazon Basics ones, so I've done some shopping. I've just collected a box of all the cables and adapters you'd possibly need over the years, not by buying them, but by having them come with displays, graphics cards, and other electronics.I've bought a few HDMI cables over the years, but otherwise I have a healthy supply of VGA, DVI, and DisplayPort cables along with DVI-I to VGA, HDMI to DVI, and DVI to HDMI adapters.
peevee - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
"in 2012, as quad-core 45W CPUs have been a staple Intel product – and staple of the 15-inch MBP – since then"Actually 45W 4-core CPUs started earlier than that. I don't remember if Core 2 Quad were ever mobile/45W, but Core i7-720QM and Core i7-820QM were, since 2009.
https://ark.intel.com/products/43122
https://ark.intel.com/products/43124
If Apple did not use them (did it?), it is not Intel's fault.
HStewart - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
One note on 8705G or higher end version, the CPU I believe is 45W also - just that EMIB has GPU on it also which raises the power 65W and 100W.Also interesting that Apple is using Polaris GPU and this is likely because unlike Windows, I believe Apple writes there code directly to the GPU. 870xG GPU maybe closer to Polaris for this reason.
WatcherCK - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Configuring on the apple store, a fully kitted out 15" MBP comes to :drum roll: $10745.00 NZ(free shipping though.) You can spec it up to 32GB of 2400MHz DDR4 memory though....
also curious about how well the machine will dissipate that much heat (on a higher specc'd model) and what battery life will be like...
Ananke - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Apple is expensive, the Touchbar is a worthless extravagance, that just increases cost for them in an attempt to "add value". I am not sure whether the target audience is retail, or institutional buyers, but from my perspective of an organization that buys thousands of professional laptops per year:Apple is OK for software professionals - good screens, compact and rugged chassis, stable software fine for Internet UI or text editors - when writing code and going to meetings,it is perfect. Probably equally good for marketing and sales people, as far as they don't need to have fancy databases access and reporting. OK for simple office administration and calendar scheduling - most of those are done in "cloud" apps anyway aka in a browser.
Apple is hard for unified encryption support (what my Security dept tells me), and unusable for financial and accounting /including the entire business process chain/ in Oracle or SAP. That eventually means no go for PeopleSoft and Taleo as well as Tableau...
An OK speced MBPro costs me around $2500+$200ish warranty. An OK speced Dell costs around $1800 plus the warranty is included for 4 years...MBPro is kinda equal to Dell Lattitude.
Dell also offers a Precission line, which is totally different and way above Apple's line. It comes with better screens, way better processors and therefore easier and better infrastructure integration for large scale corporate software. It does cost at least twice than the MBPro line though, so it is not direct competitor, but at least you should now know that sth much better than Apple exists :)
Dell XPS is a consumer grade ultra compact, comparable to MB Air. Don't judge it against MBPro. Current MB Air is simply a trash. TN screen in a laptop above $200 price is a ghetto...
Apple was dearly falling behind in laptops, and this update was due for a long time. Apple was smart enough not to increase prices and make itself further irrelevant for corporate purchases. But yeah, it is overpriced, and usually not considered first purchase choice by large organizations :)
darklight69 - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
"Dell also offers a Precission line, which is totally different and way above Apple's line. It comes with better screens, way better processors and therefore easier and better infrastructure integration for large scale corporate software. "This is false. I have direct experience of Dell Precision laptops (5520) and they consistently throttle the CPU due to thermal events whenever the processor is pushed to perform seriously. The Thermal system is inadequate for the CPU/GPU they have. No MBP throttles as far as I know, since they have better thermal dissipation and the chassis itself acts as a giant heatsink (behind the TouchBar).
You cannot pretend you have a higher spec'd machine if that machines consistently throttles under load, preventing you from using those specs.
Also, the screens are not better. if its just about resolution, you can equip it with a 4k which is higher than the MBP's 3k but a screen is more than just resolution.
Spunjji - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
You've chosen to comment on the one Precision laptop that's not really a PrRecision, though. It's an XPS 15 with the Intel rebrand Pro stuff in it (i.e. it's exactly the same as the consumer line with some hardware switches left on).The high-end screens on the "proper" precision workstations are objectively better than the display on the MBP in various metrics. Of course they're also not as slim as the MBP, so there's that..?
WasHopingForAnHonestReview - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
Nonsense. Youre not comparing the models he talked about.MrCommunistGen - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
"No MBP throttles as far as I know"I had a 2014 15" rMBP that throttled all the time, although if I had to guess that would have been inevitable in virtually any mobile chassis. The machine had the optional i7-4980HQ (4.0GHz single core turbo and 3.8GHz 4-core turbo) and the Nvidia GT 750M (sadly Kepler, not Maxwell as the "750" would imply on the desktop model).
Throw a constant heavy workload at it and the CPU would throttle back from its peak 3.8GHz all-core turbo to somewhere in the 3.3 to 3.5GHz range. Throw a graphical load in there as well and it would throttle down to 3.1GHz. In the process the chassis would get quite hot. This left it not much faster than the base CPU for sustained workloads.
Admittedly, I feel that Intel was being a bit optimistic labeling the top-spec Haswell + Crystalwell mobile chips with the same TDP as the "lower end" models (like the base 4770HQ). In the standard non-Crystalwell Haswell line as well as most of their previous mobile lines (like Ivy, Sandy, and Clarksfield) they gave the top spec CPUs a ~10W higher TDP.
It is also entirely possible that the i7-4980HQ in my particular machine was of lower-than-average bin for that model.
"Dell Precision laptops... ...consistently throttle"
We have exactly 1 Dell Precision laptop at the company. It is an M4800 with an i7-Core i7-4910MQ. I haven't spent a whole lot of time with it, but I don't *believe* it throttles, or if it does it isn't nearly as bad as the rMBP I was discussing above. Of course the laptop is almost twice as thick as the rMBP and has a huge loud fan, but that's what it takes to keep a high-end Haswell Quad cool in a mobile chassis.
tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
I have the 4770HQ and that throttles too. It would probably be closer to say "every MBP throttles" than "no MBP throttles", lol.tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
I'm sorry - no MBP throttles? In which universe? They've always throttled, but it's worse this time around with the i9, it's not an adequate thermal system for it.https://t.co/TrSgnJSvWc
star-affinity - Wednesday, August 1, 2018 - link
@tipooMaybes you know by now, but that excessive throttling was due to a software bug.
tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
Also as mentioned the model you chose to compare is a rebadged XPS 15. The Precisions you can throw your back on of course have more thermal headroom, as you'd expect. They weigh twice as much as the XPS 15/5520, that's the tradeoff.Given that both the XPS 15 and MBP 15 throttle, and especially on the i9, I'm curious which does worse.
WasHopingForAnHonestReview - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
If Microsort would rix Windows 10 GUI I honestly think Apple would take a huge stock hit. Windows is really holding back PC sales in it's durrent state.tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
I don't think the 90% of the market care or 'know' what's wrong or right with Windows 10. What's holding back the PC market is 5 year old PCs are still perfectly good for browsing the web and MS Office tasks, the vast majority of consumer PC use.
bji - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Well Apple forced my hand. I had been waiting as long as I could to "upgrade" my 2012 Retina MBP. I try to get at least 6.5 years out of my laptops, preferrably 7. But after only 6 years, I have to upgrade. Because they no longer offer the superior 2015 rMBP on their store site, and have moved it to 'clearance'. I can't wait any more because of the chance that they'll stop selling the 2015 model altogether. So I put my order in on the Apple store.Yes, I am one of the people who are so serious about *hating* the touch bar, removed ports, removed magsafe, bad keyboard (and lost glowing Apple logo!) ... that I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, and in 2018 I have bought a "new" 2015 rMBP from the Apple store.
I only pray that in 6.5 years time, Apple has finally pulled their head out of their ass and started building good laptops again.
AnnoyedGrunt - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
I really miss the magsafe. Wife has had two apple laptops over the years, and is looking to get her third. I'm thinking of upgrading her current one from a mechanical HDD to a SSD, which would probably make it last four more years. Like you, I'm not thrilled with this generation of laptop from Apple. Her others have been great though.WasHopingForAnHonestReview - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
Loss of magsafe is a game changer.tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
The 2015 rMBP 15 is the one to get imo. Plenty future proof, a grand less than the post redesign models, ports and key travel.yhselp - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
"... only the Touch Bar-equipped models are being updated. That means that the non-touch 13-inch MBP, the cheapest models of the MBP family, remain unchanged with their Kaby Lake-era hardware... this may ruffle a few feathers..."I think this is the right move as it benefits consumers (I'll explain) and I actually hoped they'd keep the 7th gen 15W SKUs for the base model. The 15W 8th gen SKUs do not have Iris graphics, which I think you must have in a Pro model. If they were to put an 8th gen CPU in the base model, you'd have had a CPU with lower single-threaded performance, and much weaker graphics (24 EUs vs. 48 EUs + 64MB eDRAM), which would make for a slower laptop overall. Sure, a quad-core CPU, albeit one clocked lower, would make some tasks faster, but the 7th gen 15W would definitely be better for the more general user, and not only actually, who must also be the target audience for the base model.
Of course, you could make the argument that if the chassis is capable of handling 28W then that's what you should be getting in all models. I agree. But as things stand, if the base model, which costs $500 less, has to have a 15W CPU, 7th gen is definitely the way to go.
Spunjji - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
But it doesn't have to have a 15W CPU, they just decided it will. That whole argument is a bit like trying to figure out what you did that made your spouse hit you... the clue is that they'll hit you whether you give them a reason or not, and Apple will always cripple their low-cost devices to make you buy the pricier ones (see the "base" iMac").tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
8th gen 15W with Iris Plus are coming though, right? Or did Intel say they wouldn't have it?noeldillabough - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
Loving the i9 but is the chassis enough to keep it cooled? Otherwise the chip bump would be worthless due to throttling..,that keyboard is the main reason I’ve still got my old machine...tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
Nope.https://t.co/TrSgnJSvWc
Sarah Terra - Friday, July 13, 2018 - link
Super annoying no 32gb memory on the smaller laptop.I have been waiting for 2012 and the macbook mini to upgrade, looks like wi ill be waiting another year.
web2dot0 - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
Who would buy the 15” model if the 13” is only a fraction of the price? Just good businessRegular Reader - Sunday, July 15, 2018 - link
You'll probably end up waiting till the end of time. Apple has barely ever upgraded the MBAs, took forever to upgrade the MBPs and even then people weren't happy until just now, and has let the MP and Mini languish for a long time. When you look at their portfolio it's actually pretty amazing how few products get regular updates: iMac, iPhone, and iPad. That's Apple right there.tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
DDR4 would have had a bigger impact on the smaller battery probably. It's annoying since they now have perfectly good performing quad cores in there that can do heavier workloads that may want more RAM, but be annoyed at Intel for not supporting LPDDR4.WasHopingForAnHonestReview - Saturday, July 14, 2018 - link
Please God mame touchbar optional on the 15". Its such garbage.doggface - Monday, July 16, 2018 - link
Whoa. That touchpad is huge.Partially jealous, partially laughing at the ridiculous size. I cannot imagine needing so much trackpad. But then I don't need to do 4 finger swipes I guess.
svan1971 - Tuesday, July 17, 2018 - link
hooray now Apples macbooks can throttle 6 cores instead of 4.nerd1 - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
Just checked youtube review... 15" i9 version can only maintain 2.2Ghz!!!!!! of clock speed under full load. That's almost a full HALF of top turbo speed!!!!I feel sorry for the ignorant people who will spend $4K for this.
tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - link
If it didn't maintain turbo that would be one thing, but dipping past the "base" clock is unacceptablehttps://t.co/TrSgnJSvWc
star-affinity - Wednesday, August 1, 2018 - link
Software bug now fixed.star-affinity - Wednesday, August 1, 2018 - link
Software bug now fixed.MDD1963 - Friday, July 20, 2018 - link
Is this the same laptop already reported to be throttling under rendering loads unless placed in a freezer?shoreview - Friday, July 27, 2018 - link
I personally love the butterfly keyboard. Now, before the hate posts, let me point out that the 2016 one was nothing but trouble for me. I tried out a friend's 2016 MacBook pro and it was a string of typos. I was worried when I came due for a work replacement but took the 2017 anyway, and it is a huge improvement, at least for how I type. The difference is subtle to the touch but there was some weird feedback for me on the 2016 that produced mistakes.I put a silicone mat keyboard protector on the 2017 just to pre-empt any dust; it's still faster for me to type on than the widely regarded 2013 Retina keyboard and I'm looking at probably close to the same speed as the 100-120wpm I get on a desktop. It's just with each new generation of keyboard I have go lighter on the keys. I like that.
Tiuy - Monday, October 19, 2020 - link
This is a great articleIf anyone doesn't know how to reset MacBook Pro
Reset MacBook Pro
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