Battery life is awesome, but the $900 price is going to limit sales. I really think the cost has to be much lower than the current generation of Snapdragons running Windows so there's broader appeal and greater adoption. Then again, ARM-based phones can reach that price point as well without good underlying reasons. Also hurting it is the problem of translation for x86 programs that aren't able to execute natively on the underlying metal.
I think based on specs and specs alone that is listed considering the "size" $900 is "about" what I would expect especially given the sheer battery size, direct comparison my moto G4 Play battery is somewhere in the range of AT BEST (if my maths are correct) something like 10 watt hours (something like that) 2800Mah 3.8v (spec)
that being said, much larger battery than any phone I am aware of (though 20 hours does not seem like all that much though I suppose it depends on their testing, does that mean full brightness full system 100% loaded (as it should be) to give a more truthful rating?
much larger screen size 12.3 inch than android cellphone (obviously) so more or less a "netbook" screen size and +/- ipad size (depending on generation which are 9.7-12.9 inch while most netbooks tend to be n the 7 to 12.1 inch screen size with MUCH higher resolution etc etc.
I am not "fond" of the price point, but then again, I hate the price of the stupid easy to break no headphone all glass BS smartphones this day and age, so $900 seems "about right" without being greedy on a toy size device (pretty much all smartphones no matter their size) with many costig in the $580-$1300+ range with average battery size in the ~1500-5800Mah.
to each own, this seems like "a good purchase" for the price they are asking, though they could have probably used a smaller discrete gpu from Radeon instead of a Adreno ^.^
The adreno is already part of the Snapdragon 835 SoC. A discrete GPU would require not just PCB space for the GPU and its Vram, but that the 835 be modified to provide a PCIe bus for it and the GPU to talk to.
There's no way all of that is going to be lower in power than a GPU designed to not kill a phone battery.
If it ran anything other than Windows *and* could address a lot more memory, it could be a competitor to the Dell XPS families that come preinstalled with Linux. In that scenario, the high price tag would not be a terrible thing.
"Also hurting it is the problem of translation for x86 programs that aren't able to execute natively on the underlying metal."
they are pushing this device out because they want native applications from the store on Windows S - but as developer myself for over 20 years, they are not buying it especially in professional environment - a lot of companies have code base that has been out there years and translation is usually not an option.
What is really interesting is that Microsoft has not even releasing a Surface on this platform.
Maybe they are not releasing a Surface yet on this platform because they know it is a turd lol. Microsoft will basically test the waters with this and see how it takes off I am sure there will be enough uninformed people out there that will scoop these non x86 systems up and then come to find they are pretty much screwed but will trudge on anyways.
If it all pans out MS will then release a Surface based on this platform I am sure. I am sure MS wants to try to get everyone on this platform asap because it means more people having to depend on the MS store to get their Apps. Maybe someday way in the future this platform will be the first choice for everyone and x86 will either go away or be a luxury platform. I hope that never happens it took along time to get to the performance level we are at now with x86 I would hate to see us set back 15 years for performance levels just because MS wants to rake in more cash through the MS store.
Yes, it is interesting. I suggest to take a close look at Microsoft's own announcement text for the new 10" surface, especially the part about the CPU. They basically said that they decided to stick with Intel this time (!) which, to me, implies that a. they are definitely considering another (=ARM) arch for their next device, and b. that Intel probably had to give them a really good deal on their y-series pentiums for MS so it says intel inside. Given the high likelihood that Apple will move to their own chip arch in the next MacBook generation, Intel needs to step it's game up or it'll be intel outside for many new ultraportables and 2-in-1s in 2019.
First a all a Surface Pro 4 2in1 with m3-6Y30 would blow away this thing - especially for desktop apps. I feel sorry for the suckers buying this thing and desiring a real PC. I have an Lenovo Mixx 2 with Atom process which would like beat this thing with desktop applications.
For this price even cheaper - if you want a device like this go for Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 or S4 when it comes out. You be better off - If this Lenovo was price under $300 or $400 it would be worth playing around - otherwise you are wasting money.
Where is the laptop dock that seamlessly turns my phone into a well functioning laptop with a quality screen and keyboard? I also want a desktop dock so I can use my phone for work at a desk, for work on the gone and as phone. Why isn't there a Windows phone that turns into a surface device Microsoft? Google why isn't there a pixelbook sans guts that my pixel phone can dock with and become a laptop? This can be done, Motorola did it years ago with the Atrix, it could be done much better now and work well.
Reviews like https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/24/14696730/hp-eli... show it needs a lot more effort put into it, because the phones are poor and the Windows experience is poor still and it is way over priced. $599 for the HP dock with no guts inside...., nearly the price a entry surface pro.
Now what we need to see is the performance of x86 applications on the ARM stuff.
The issue is that you can do most basic stuff on a tablet with an ARM SoC and it works just dandy. Anything that requires more poke from the CPU is not going to be used on something like this.
Therefore, you might as well buy an Android tablet for most use cases as anything that has low oomph requirements would work on the many existing x86 CPU tablety things out there and anything that you want to do more is served by the Android market. I just struggle to see a large market for this stuff although I must say I am attracted to it. My attraction is more the "what can I do to fiddle with this" rather than any specific use case though and that isn't exactly a mainstream approach to buying hardware.
I shall be very interested to see how they've emulated on this and how well it performs. Generally these things in my experience (which does date back a long way and isn't recent) throw raw horsepower at the problem with poorly coded emulation software. I have no real understanding of the differences between x86 and ARM aside from the instruction set is limited and therefore from my understanding what would be one instruction on an x86 chip could possibly take 2 or 3 cycles to complete on ARM. If I'm wrong please do correct me as I'm not a compsci, I'm an idiot.
I apologise to all for the ramble. I've been drinking with my opiates and benzos. It makes them work better. My back merely aches now.
People don't like buying already outdated CPU's. Seems like this is going to be a problem. Release a snapdragon 845 based laptop when the lg g7 or oneplus launches, and people might actually be interested.
The emulated performance is just bad, horrible even at native store apps it barely competes to the lowest end of atoms just before airmont core. And it's wiped out by that that obsolete atom in native x86...
Technocally you could buy laptops with the same performance but lower prices if OEM's used AMD APU's, 2500-2700U cost near half of your avrg i5-i7-U cpu.
Just say no. The price alone puts this thing in the no buy list. You get 4GB ram a sub par CPU when compared to a Intel i3,i5,i7 or AMD R3,R5,R7. You get a scaled down Windows 10 S yet the price is about the same as a system with a AMD or Intel CPU with far better CPU's a full version of Windows most of the time. You get a x86 system what will run everything you throw at it and most of the time do it at a good speed. For these systems if you want to run anything x86 you have to do it through emulation which basically makes the Tablet/Phone CPU's even struggle harder to perform even remotely good. This a trend I hope passes very soon since I work on computers for a living and I do not relish the thought of having to sit through the process of having to fix one of these turds.
Using slow CPU's has been done a few times and it has always been ugly a sin so slow you want to throw the thing in the trash can. They at least had one thing going for them they were cheap to buy so they were basically disposable PC's. If these are going to cost the same as a x86 system with a good set of hardware spec's then they had better match them in performance as well and I do not see that happening.
I do get why Qualcomm would like to position this at 1000$ price range, but I don't get why they believe it could succeed. Yes, you can sell a few of these to people who are curious, but other than that, nobody will buy it. Battery life is a moot point because you can get the same or better battery like on an Intel platform if you limit the performance to the Qualcomm chip level. 4G is just a gimmick, you don't need 4g on a laptop. A fair price for this would be 400-500$.
Maybe OEM's think because people are paying $1k for the same craptastic performance on a phone the same would apply in a laptop where are actually expecting real performance?
I can't see why anyone would buy this machine, at this price, over a Surface Pro. It's got last year's phone guts, and a significantly lower-res screen than the Surface Pro.
At the moment, MS actually has its Core i5/8GB/128GB Surface Pro on sale for $800 on its website; that means with type cover, you're looking at $930.
I'd be interested to see how Win10 on ARM works with 4GB of RAM, but I'm betting that the 8GB Surface Pro performs a LOT better.
At like $500-600, this might be competitive, but the only thing this device has going for it is battery life, with way too many compromises to make it worthwhile for most users.
It doesn't matter if it's last year hardware, they would need to crank a 855 to like 8Ghz just to match a 2500U locked to base clocks, and that's being extremely positive.
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PeachNCream - Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - link
Battery life is awesome, but the $900 price is going to limit sales. I really think the cost has to be much lower than the current generation of Snapdragons running Windows so there's broader appeal and greater adoption. Then again, ARM-based phones can reach that price point as well without good underlying reasons. Also hurting it is the problem of translation for x86 programs that aren't able to execute natively on the underlying metal.Dragonstongue - Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - link
I think based on specs and specs alone that is listed considering the "size" $900 is "about" what I would expect especially given the sheer battery size, direct comparison my moto G4 Play battery is somewhere in the range of AT BEST (if my maths are correct) something like 10 watt hours (something like that)2800Mah 3.8v (spec)
that being said, much larger battery than any phone I am aware of (though 20 hours does not seem like all that much though I suppose it depends on their testing, does that mean full brightness full system 100% loaded (as it should be) to give a more truthful rating?
much larger screen size 12.3 inch than android cellphone (obviously) so more or less a "netbook" screen size and +/- ipad size (depending on generation which are 9.7-12.9 inch while most netbooks tend to be n the 7 to 12.1 inch screen size with MUCH higher resolution etc etc.
I am not "fond" of the price point, but then again, I hate the price of the stupid easy to break no headphone all glass BS smartphones this day and age, so $900 seems "about right" without being greedy on a toy size device (pretty much all smartphones no matter their size) with many costig in the $580-$1300+ range with average battery size in the ~1500-5800Mah.
to each own, this seems like "a good purchase" for the price they are asking, though they could have probably used a smaller discrete gpu from Radeon instead of a Adreno ^.^
DanNeely - Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - link
The adreno is already part of the Snapdragon 835 SoC. A discrete GPU would require not just PCB space for the GPU and its Vram, but that the 835 be modified to provide a PCIe bus for it and the GPU to talk to.There's no way all of that is going to be lower in power than a GPU designed to not kill a phone battery.
xTRICKYxx - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
there are 3rd party 12,000 and 10,000 MaH batteries for older phones with removable batteries.PeachNCream - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Why are you encapsulating words in quotes seemingly at random?rbanffy - Tuesday, July 17, 2018 - link
If it ran anything other than Windows *and* could address a lot more memory, it could be a competitor to the Dell XPS families that come preinstalled with Linux. In that scenario, the high price tag would not be a terrible thing.HStewart - Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - link
"Also hurting it is the problem of translation for x86 programs that aren't able to execute natively on the underlying metal."they are pushing this device out because they want native applications from the store on Windows S - but as developer myself for over 20 years, they are not buying it especially in professional environment - a lot of companies have code base that has been out there years and translation is usually not an option.
What is really interesting is that Microsoft has not even releasing a Surface on this platform.
rocky12345 - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
Maybe they are not releasing a Surface yet on this platform because they know it is a turd lol. Microsoft will basically test the waters with this and see how it takes off I am sure there will be enough uninformed people out there that will scoop these non x86 systems up and then come to find they are pretty much screwed but will trudge on anyways.If it all pans out MS will then release a Surface based on this platform I am sure. I am sure MS wants to try to get everyone on this platform asap because it means more people having to depend on the MS store to get their Apps. Maybe someday way in the future this platform will be the first choice for everyone and x86 will either go away or be a luxury platform. I hope that never happens it took along time to get to the performance level we are at now with x86 I would hate to see us set back 15 years for performance levels just because MS wants to rake in more cash through the MS store.
eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
Yes, it is interesting. I suggest to take a close look at Microsoft's own announcement text for the new 10" surface, especially the part about the CPU. They basically said that they decided to stick with Intel this time (!) which, to me, implies that a. they are definitely considering another (=ARM) arch for their next device, and b. that Intel probably had to give them a really good deal on their y-series pentiums for MS so it says intel inside. Given the high likelihood that Apple will move to their own chip arch in the next MacBook generation, Intel needs to step it's game up or it'll be intel outside for many new ultraportables and 2-in-1s in 2019.Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
A 2c/4t 5-6w Zen APU should do it.Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
It will probably hurt the Surface brand from such a lackluster performance.Even a 4core AMD Jaguar shrinked to 12nm would absolutely murder this thing.
HStewart - Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - link
First a all a Surface Pro 4 2in1 with m3-6Y30 would blow away this thing - especially for desktop apps. I feel sorry for the suckers buying this thing and desiring a real PC. I have an Lenovo Mixx 2 with Atom process which would like beat this thing with desktop applications.For this price even cheaper - if you want a device like this go for Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 or S4 when it comes out. You be better off - If this Lenovo was price under $300 or $400 it would be worth playing around - otherwise you are wasting money.
Jhlot - Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - link
Where is the laptop dock that seamlessly turns my phone into a well functioning laptop with a quality screen and keyboard? I also want a desktop dock so I can use my phone for work at a desk, for work on the gone and as phone. Why isn't there a Windows phone that turns into a surface device Microsoft? Google why isn't there a pixelbook sans guts that my pixel phone can dock with and become a laptop? This can be done, Motorola did it years ago with the Atrix, it could be done much better now and work well.Arbie - Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - link
Aren't the Windows Phone 10 "Continuum" devices exactly what you're requesting? Just as one example, the Alcatel Idol 4S, and the MS Continuum Dock.Jhlot - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
Reviews like https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/24/14696730/hp-eli... show it needs a lot more effort put into it, because the phones are poor and the Windows experience is poor still and it is way over priced. $599 for the HP dock with no guts inside...., nearly the price a entry surface pro.TheinsanegamerN - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
Not to mention windows 10 mobile is Dead in the water. MS doesnt care about it anymore, hardware support has dried up, ece.philehidiot - Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - link
Now what we need to see is the performance of x86 applications on the ARM stuff.The issue is that you can do most basic stuff on a tablet with an ARM SoC and it works just dandy. Anything that requires more poke from the CPU is not going to be used on something like this.
Therefore, you might as well buy an Android tablet for most use cases as anything that has low oomph requirements would work on the many existing x86 CPU tablety things out there and anything that you want to do more is served by the Android market. I just struggle to see a large market for this stuff although I must say I am attracted to it. My attraction is more the "what can I do to fiddle with this" rather than any specific use case though and that isn't exactly a mainstream approach to buying hardware.
I shall be very interested to see how they've emulated on this and how well it performs. Generally these things in my experience (which does date back a long way and isn't recent) throw raw horsepower at the problem with poorly coded emulation software. I have no real understanding of the differences between x86 and ARM aside from the instruction set is limited and therefore from my understanding what would be one instruction on an x86 chip could possibly take 2 or 3 cycles to complete on ARM. If I'm wrong please do correct me as I'm not a compsci, I'm an idiot.
I apologise to all for the ramble. I've been drinking with my opiates and benzos. It makes them work better. My back merely aches now.
Alistair - Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - link
People don't like buying already outdated CPU's. Seems like this is going to be a problem. Release a snapdragon 845 based laptop when the lg g7 or oneplus launches, and people might actually be interested.Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
The emulated performance is just bad, horrible even at native store apps it barely competes to the lowest end of atoms just before airmont core. And it's wiped out by that that obsolete atom in native x86...TheinsanegamerN - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
WAY too expensive for such a limited product. You can buy core i5 machines for $600-700 that will outperform this any day of the week.I thought ARM was supposed to save us from paying ridiculous amounts for hardware. If ARM costs as much as x86, why wouldnt you buy x86?
Gunbuster - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
Heck there are older but new in box 5th gen X1 carbons (8GB/256GB SSD) on ebay for $1000. You would be crazy to buy this device at $900Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Technocally you could buy laptops with the same performance but lower prices if OEM's used AMD APU's, 2500-2700U cost near half of your avrg i5-i7-U cpu.phoenix_rizzen - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
Typo: "life with a perminent connection"Should be "permanent".
rocky12345 - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
Just say no. The price alone puts this thing in the no buy list. You get 4GB ram a sub par CPU when compared to a Intel i3,i5,i7 or AMD R3,R5,R7. You get a scaled down Windows 10 S yet the price is about the same as a system with a AMD or Intel CPU with far better CPU's a full version of Windows most of the time. You get a x86 system what will run everything you throw at it and most of the time do it at a good speed. For these systems if you want to run anything x86 you have to do it through emulation which basically makes the Tablet/Phone CPU's even struggle harder to perform even remotely good. This a trend I hope passes very soon since I work on computers for a living and I do not relish the thought of having to sit through the process of having to fix one of these turds.Using slow CPU's has been done a few times and it has always been ugly a sin so slow you want to throw the thing in the trash can. They at least had one thing going for them they were cheap to buy so they were basically disposable PC's. If these are going to cost the same as a x86 system with a good set of hardware spec's then they had better match them in performance as well and I do not see that happening.
yeeeeman - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
I do get why Qualcomm would like to position this at 1000$ price range, but I don't get why they believe it could succeed. Yes, you can sell a few of these to people who are curious, but other than that, nobody will buy it.Battery life is a moot point because you can get the same or better battery like on an Intel platform if you limit the performance to the Qualcomm chip level. 4G is just a gimmick, you don't need 4g on a laptop.
A fair price for this would be 400-500$.
Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
Maybe OEM's think because people are paying $1k for the same craptastic performance on a phone the same would apply in a laptop where are actually expecting real performance?Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
So they want to sell you a "phone" with a "phone idiotic price premium" on a laptop form factor with Windows S.sing_electric - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
I can't see why anyone would buy this machine, at this price, over a Surface Pro. It's got last year's phone guts, and a significantly lower-res screen than the Surface Pro.At the moment, MS actually has its Core i5/8GB/128GB Surface Pro on sale for $800 on its website; that means with type cover, you're looking at $930.
I'd be interested to see how Win10 on ARM works with 4GB of RAM, but I'm betting that the 8GB Surface Pro performs a LOT better.
At like $500-600, this might be competitive, but the only thing this device has going for it is battery life, with way too many compromises to make it worthwhile for most users.
Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
It doesn't matter if it's last year hardware, they would need to crank a 855 to like 8Ghz just to match a 2500U locked to base clocks, and that's being extremely positive.Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
The lowest end of the atom already perform miles better and you cand find thos from $99+.Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
$900 for that piece of junk when is slower than the slowest of the lowest end of current atoms even downclocked to 1Ghz..20hours on a "laptop" than is slower than a snail
Lolimaster - Thursday, July 12, 2018 - link
So it cost like 3 times a Galaxy Tab S3 wich will do the same thing on a OS optimized for ARM.rbanffy - Tuesday, July 17, 2018 - link
Is the bootloader locked or is it possible to load a different OS?HappyTechKnow - Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - link
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A great combination of performance and beauty Acer Aspire E5-575 is powered by a 7th Generation Intel Core i5 processor. It has a stylish metallic textile pattern with 4 GB RAM and a large capacity of 1TB HDD. Moreover, the stylish look of the entire series which completes the distinctive design.
Fastest wireless networking with high-speed DDR4 system memory. High definition graphics 620 that will support the latest reversible USB 3.0. Longer battery life which will allow you to use it unplugged for long hours. Live audio with consistent color accuracy makes it a unique choice.
If you are looking for the best laptop with extraordinary features than Acer Aspire E5-575 is what you should buy.
https://happytechknow.com/2018/07/03/best-laptop-a...