I don't like Thunderbolt 3 for the bandwidth - in fact, it leaves me wanting more. Yes, it is an improvement. But it is limited to 22Gbps for data. The rest is for video, which could be useful, but not for me - I get my video from my external graphics. I like it for the PCIe connectivity, which allows for things like the external graphics. But Thunderbolt 3 would be a lot nicer if it could enable the full 32Gb/s of PCIe 3.0 x4 to external GPUs - since they do not need to send DisplayPort through the Thunderbolt bus.
it's tb3 not usb-c so no need in additional controllers for dp TPS65983 is just "USB Type-C and USB PD Controller, Power Switch, and High-Speed Multiplexer" and i suppose TB3DKM2HD has TPS65983 especially for "USB Type-C ... and High-Speed Multiplexer" PS176 is dp to hdmi converter
1. Please forgive me if I don't get the gist of your post
2. But afaik the Thunderbolt controller takes care of the USB-C functionality, because the DisplayPort lines from the GPU are routed directly to the Thunderbolt controller. So it probably sees the USB-C adapter and masquerades as a plain USB-C controller. I am not sure exactly what the port controllers do, though. I thought the NVM firmware for the Thunderbolt controller can affect the power delivery, unless the Thunderbolt controller flashes part of the firmware to the port controller.
3. This is why it is so sad that people keep buying HDMI just because it works on TVs. They are going out of their way to convert the signal, which means more power, cost and complexity. It is just moronic. DisplayPort is much leaner and meaner, and is routable, unlike HDMI. It opens up the possibility of a USB-C hub with all USB-C ports, all with alternate mode DisplayPort, because DisplayPort can use hubs too - MST hubs. So just like the USB signal, you can divide the DisplayPort signal to each port.
Reckon, I have seen Sonnet and Promise release brand new 10Gbps Ethernet devices in the recent weeks. Titan Ridge was announced ages ago. I know for a fact that it is in the hands of manufacturers to develop products with. Intel will probably allow them to sell the products in line with the Z390 chipset launch. Which will not be before the Linux 4.17 kernel reaches stable release, because it introduces Titan Ridge support. Anyways, they couldn't wait a few more months and make something without two year old controllers?
What is really sad is there are still plenty of products for sale that still use the discontinued DSL6X40 (2015) controllers. Did they stockpile the chips or what? How do they still have them?
I actually purchase one of these docks and had issues with on my XPS 15 2in1 - I was hoping to have it for possible portable solution but the problem is that even though it supply my monitor via Display Port - USB port did not work
So what I decided to is return this dock to amazon and get the Pluggable USB-C dock - I use this on my less powerful Dell XPS 13 2in1 and Samsung Tab Pro S But on my XPS 15 2in1 - currently I using a Dell TB-16 connected to LG 34U88-B along with USB ports mouse keyboard.
I am pretty sure that I can run it along with my Samsung 4k monitor - not sure if it can handle 2 4k screen ( 15 2in1 is 4K ) and 34 UltraWide. - but over thunderbolt it could be possible.
Dell 9365 = 15D9 (but ironically not enough processing power to take advantage of it)
Dell 9370 = 15D2 (I came from the 9365 to 9370 and the performance of this one is stunning)
Dell 9575 = 15D2 (I even put the NVM firmware from this model on my 9370)
Dell 9570 = 15D9 (Full bandwidth at least, but still a let down when the smaller 9370 has more ports).
If it helps, it does not actually half the bandwidth using PCIe 3.0 x2 - because the Thunderbolt 3 has a 22Gbps limit on PCIe. So you drop from 22Gbps to 16Gbps. You do not get the full 32Gbps through Thunderbolt. I guess it was to make room for the DisplayPort. But many devices do not use that - such as eGPUs which generate their own video to send to the monitor. It would be nice if they could unlock the extra bandwidth for non-DisplayPort devices.
Also, this means they are full of faeces - comparing 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 to 10Gbps USB is a bit misleading. It would be 22Gbps to 10Gbps. And USB 3.2 doubles to 20Gbps exclusively over USB-C cables.
" Furthermore, since the mini docks are based on Intel’s Alpine Ridge controllers, they are not compatible with PCs featuring USB Type-C headers."
Eh? It depends on whether the Type C port on the host PC is a Thunderbolt port or a regular USB port. A PC with a Thunderbolt Type C port will work with one of these docks just as any other Thunderbolt host device. Unless you're specifically referring to the internal Type C motherboard header, in which case it's down to whether a particular motherboard has routed a Thunderbolt output to that port, or just fobbed it off with USB only. The header itself is required by the spec to be electrically compatible with all transports the normal Type C connector can carry.
Why would they use an Asmedia USB controller when the JHL6540 has a USB controller built in? It seems like a waste, and plus Asmedia is largely responsible for the vulnerabilities in the AMD chipsets, I'd imagine (they were contracted to make them). Also they could at least have made the cable detachable - I want the ability to swap the cable for a 2M Active, and share the same cable with multiple accessories.
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fred666 - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
Still not worth it over the USB-C only (no thunderbolt) mini hubs.HStewart - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
Even though I like the USB-C hubs - like my pluggable one, Thunderbolt beats USB-C hands down - it has 4x the bandwidth.karatekid430 - Sunday, May 27, 2018 - link
I don't like Thunderbolt 3 for the bandwidth - in fact, it leaves me wanting more. Yes, it is an improvement. But it is limited to 22Gbps for data. The rest is for video, which could be useful, but not for me - I get my video from my external graphics. I like it for the PCIe connectivity, which allows for things like the external graphics. But Thunderbolt 3 would be a lot nicer if it could enable the full 32Gb/s of PCIe 3.0 x4 to external GPUs - since they do not need to send DisplayPort through the Thunderbolt bus.madLyfe - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
possible to run 2 external monitors on a macbook air(2015) from this? seriously asking for a friend :PWithoutWeakness - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
Apple doesn't make a MacBook Air with Thunderbolt 3 ports.HStewart - Friday, May 18, 2018 - link
Best choice is to find Thunderbolt 3 to dual DisplayPort or HDMI like the followinghttps://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Thunderbolt-D...
You will only need to use a single Thunderbolt port.
En1gma - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
it's tb3 not usb-c so no need in additional controllers for dpTPS65983 is just "USB Type-C and USB PD Controller, Power Switch, and High-Speed Multiplexer" and i suppose TB3DKM2HD has TPS65983 especially for "USB Type-C ... and High-Speed Multiplexer"
PS176 is dp to hdmi converter
karatekid430 - Sunday, May 27, 2018 - link
1. Please forgive me if I don't get the gist of your post2. But afaik the Thunderbolt controller takes care of the USB-C functionality, because the DisplayPort lines from the GPU are routed directly to the Thunderbolt controller. So it probably sees the USB-C adapter and masquerades as a plain USB-C controller. I am not sure exactly what the port controllers do, though. I thought the NVM firmware for the Thunderbolt controller can affect the power delivery, unless the Thunderbolt controller flashes part of the firmware to the port controller.
3. This is why it is so sad that people keep buying HDMI just because it works on TVs. They are going out of their way to convert the signal, which means more power, cost and complexity. It is just moronic. DisplayPort is much leaner and meaner, and is routable, unlike HDMI. It opens up the possibility of a USB-C hub with all USB-C ports, all with alternate mode DisplayPort, because DisplayPort can use hubs too - MST hubs. So just like the USB signal, you can divide the DisplayPort signal to each port.
jhoff80 - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
"Furthermore, since the mini docks are based on Intel’s Alpine Ridge controllers, they are not compatible with PCs featuring USB Type-C headers."Seriously, when are we going to start seeing Titan Ridge hubs/docks... and more importantly monitors?
karatekid430 - Sunday, May 27, 2018 - link
Reckon, I have seen Sonnet and Promise release brand new 10Gbps Ethernet devices in the recent weeks. Titan Ridge was announced ages ago. I know for a fact that it is in the hands of manufacturers to develop products with. Intel will probably allow them to sell the products in line with the Z390 chipset launch. Which will not be before the Linux 4.17 kernel reaches stable release, because it introduces Titan Ridge support. Anyways, they couldn't wait a few more months and make something without two year old controllers?What is really sad is there are still plenty of products for sale that still use the discontinued DSL6X40 (2015) controllers. Did they stockpile the chips or what? How do they still have them?
HStewart - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
I actually purchase one of these docks and had issues with on my XPS 15 2in1 - I was hoping to have it for possible portable solution but the problem is that even though it supply my monitor via Display Port - USB port did not workSo what I decided to is return this dock to amazon and get the Pluggable USB-C dock - I use this on my less powerful Dell XPS 13 2in1 and Samsung Tab Pro S But on my XPS 15 2in1 - currently I using a Dell TB-16 connected to LG 34U88-B along with USB ports mouse keyboard.
I am pretty sure that I can run it along with my Samsung 4k monitor - not sure if it can handle 2 4k screen ( 15 2in1 is 4K ) and 34 UltraWide. - but over thunderbolt it could be possible.
lmcd - Monday, May 21, 2018 - link
The reason for this is that Dell's XPS line's Thunderbolt ports are not the full bandwidth (at least in the year my model is from).karatekid430 - Sunday, May 27, 2018 - link
They fixed it. Yeah, it was a joke.Dell 9365 = 15D9 (but ironically not enough processing power to take advantage of it)
Dell 9370 = 15D2 (I came from the 9365 to 9370 and the performance of this one is stunning)
Dell 9575 = 15D2 (I even put the NVM firmware from this model on my 9370)
Dell 9570 = 15D9 (Full bandwidth at least, but still a let down when the smaller 9370 has more ports).
If it helps, it does not actually half the bandwidth using PCIe 3.0 x2 - because the Thunderbolt 3 has a 22Gbps limit on PCIe. So you drop from 22Gbps to 16Gbps. You do not get the full 32Gbps through Thunderbolt. I guess it was to make room for the DisplayPort. But many devices do not use that - such as eGPUs which generate their own video to send to the monitor. It would be nice if they could unlock the extra bandwidth for non-DisplayPort devices.
Also, this means they are full of faeces - comparing 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 to 10Gbps USB is a bit misleading. It would be 22Gbps to 10Gbps. And USB 3.2 doubles to 20Gbps exclusively over USB-C cables.
cerberusss - Friday, May 18, 2018 - link
For 219 US$ shipped, get a decent true powered Thunderbolt 3 dock:https://mymantiz.com/products/md-01-zeus
Not shilling, just a customer who is amazed that someone can bring a dock to market with that price.
benedict - Friday, May 18, 2018 - link
The lack of headphones jack makes all those hubs useless.psychobriggsy - Friday, May 18, 2018 - link
Still very expensive for Ethernet and video breakout.I think the BOM is only going to drop when Intel makes a Thunderbolt controller that has the DP, Ethernet and USB3 controllers built in as well.
Why no front-panel USB ports? Surely the USB controller can provide for more than one or two ports?
Additionally, why not DP + miniDP, that would have provided the room for two USB ports on that configuration as well.
edzieba - Friday, May 18, 2018 - link
" Furthermore, since the mini docks are based on Intel’s Alpine Ridge controllers, they are not compatible with PCs featuring USB Type-C headers."Eh? It depends on whether the Type C port on the host PC is a Thunderbolt port or a regular USB port. A PC with a Thunderbolt Type C port will work with one of these docks just as any other Thunderbolt host device.
Unless you're specifically referring to the internal Type C motherboard header, in which case it's down to whether a particular motherboard has routed a Thunderbolt output to that port, or just fobbed it off with USB only. The header itself is required by the spec to be electrically compatible with all transports the normal Type C connector can carry.
karatekid430 - Sunday, May 27, 2018 - link
Why would they use an Asmedia USB controller when the JHL6540 has a USB controller built in? It seems like a waste, and plus Asmedia is largely responsible for the vulnerabilities in the AMD chipsets, I'd imagine (they were contracted to make them). Also they could at least have made the cable detachable - I want the ability to swap the cable for a 2M Active, and share the same cable with multiple accessories.