Based on the product descriptions and marketing material of mice over the past 20 years, you would have thought the input lag and wireless problems had been completely solved. With every new release the truth comes out: wired mice still perform better.
Hey man, 1 ms is 0.06 frame per second for 60Hz. I am a street fighter player and we were arguing for 2 or 3 frames of input latency in SFV to be catastrophic, however it barely matter.
To make a comparison, we are talking about 33-50 ms, for a highly reactionary fighting game.
1ms is not going to make a difference in competition. Human reaction are not that tight.
Of course, there are still benefits of wired mice like 100% uptime and far greater variety in form factor, but Logitech's wireless offerings perform on par with wired mice.
Pro gamers sponsored by Logitech (in CSGO, Overwatch, if curious) have preferred Logitech's wireless offerings. Though they are sponsored, Logitech also offers wired mice. That being said I think your statement rings largely true for the other companies.
Some of these numbers seem so meaningless for me. 400 inches per second so that is literally 33 feet in a second, who is in a room that big? Okay but it is not about a single second but fractions of a second.
So 400 inches per second that is 4 inches in 1/100th of a second, and .4 inches in 1/1000th of a second (which is the polling rate, 1000 times a second.)
But is this even useful or is it just placebo now? Literally it takes 13 microseconds for the first signals from the eyes to hit the brain and most processing takes 80 to 100 microseconds to START beginning. Similar numbers also occur with signals from your motor area of the brain (brodmann area 4) down the thalamus, brain stem, spinal chord, to peripheral nerves, and reaching the muscles to actually move the muscles and bones to DO THE THING.
Same thing with g forces, 40 Gs is rocket sled acceleration. By comparison
Damn I actually hit submit early in the previous post.
Same thing with g forces, 40 Gs is rocket sled acceleration. By comparison the fastest race cars with G forces are between 4 to 8 Gs during the most rapid acceleration, rapid deceleration aka brakes (braking is more g forces than speeding up), and the most severe turns.
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I have no doubt this logitech mouse is better than other mice, but the marketing terms seem so superfluous with no point of reference and thus no *useful* subjectivity that I have no clue what they are trying to communicate. Bigger numbers are not really better, it is like monitors contrast ratio when we are not talking a specific pixel and its ability to change but instead talk about dynamic contrast ratio of comparing two different pixels on different areas of the monitor. (Aka x vs x*x)
It's a spec regarding the failure speed of the sensor.
Generally speaking the current generation of top end sensors have reached the "good enough" stage in which it generally isn't a factor anymore but this wasn't always the case. Failure speed for example was an issue with some previous generation sensors (when they were still sub 3 meters per second) as some people during quick flicks could exceed them causing the mouse to stop tracking or other anomalies.
That number is excessive, but not meaningless. 400 inches per second refers to the max tracking speed of the sensor. Practically, it means "you can move the mouse 400 inches per second and it will still track accurately". Above a sensor's max tracking speed, the mouse won't track accurately any more and you'll experience some abnormal behavior.
5 years ago this figure was much more important. Optical sensors (which are almost always more accurate than laser sensors) used to have very low max tracking speeds. I believe the revered MLT04 used in the Wheel Mouse Optical and Intellimouse Optical had a max tracking speed of about 1.5 meters per second (5 feet per second, 60 inches per second), and even the modern (at the time) sensors were around this same number. While this sounds plenty fast, in some games (namely Counter-Strike) it's not unheard of for a player to move 15+ inches in a quarter second, which exceeds the max tracking speed of these sensors. In fact, this was such an issue that at one point Logitech included an accelerometer in one of their mice (the G402) to take over for the sensor at a certain speed.
Nowadays, sensors have progressed enough that max tracking speed isn't an issue anymore (at least for high-end mice), but it's still not a meaningless term, especially for budget mice like this. It's like n-key rollover for keyboards. Being able to press more keys is objectively better up to a certain point (probably 10 key rollover), but once you pass that limit it's not an issue. However, it's nice to know that in some rare instance where you do need to press all the keys, or move your mouse very fast, it won't be an issue.
Anybody can recommend good NON wireless mouse? My Logitech G500 is just about to die, looking for decent replacement at around $100 or less. Primarily for Pubg and SC2.
Logitech's successor to the G500(s) is the G502, which is fine. It's a few years old, but the shape and weight should be similar. If you wanted something lighter, there's the G403. I'd go to a local brick and mortar computer store and look at what they have on display. There's nothing wrong with either of those mice.
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rocky12345 - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
Looks like it would be a great mouse and the price is not to shabby as well. I might have to pick one up when they get to the stores.cosmotic - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
Based on the product descriptions and marketing material of mice over the past 20 years, you would have thought the input lag and wireless problems had been completely solved. With every new release the truth comes out: wired mice still perform better.eva02langley - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
Hey man, 1 ms is 0.06 frame per second for 60Hz. I am a street fighter player and we were arguing for 2 or 3 frames of input latency in SFV to be catastrophic, however it barely matter.To make a comparison, we are talking about 33-50 ms, for a highly reactionary fighting game.
1ms is not going to make a difference in competition. Human reaction are not that tight.
nerd1 - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
Is anyone still using 60hz monitor? *gasp*Death666Angel - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
Are there unlocked console games? Is FreeSync happening on consoles, yet?yasamoka - Friday, May 18, 2018 - link
https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/mouse-guide/Focus on this: https://www.blurbusters.com/wp-content/uploads/201...
hanselltc - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
Care to elaborate?Ktk - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
Of course, there are still benefits of wired mice like 100% uptime and far greater variety in form factor, but Logitech's wireless offerings perform on par with wired mice.Pro gamers sponsored by Logitech (in CSGO, Overwatch, if curious) have preferred Logitech's wireless offerings. Though they are sponsored, Logitech also offers wired mice. That being said I think your statement rings largely true for the other companies.
Roland00Address - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
Some of these numbers seem so meaningless for me. 400 inches per second so that is literally 33 feet in a second, who is in a room that big? Okay but it is not about a single second but fractions of a second.So 400 inches per second that is 4 inches in 1/100th of a second, and .4 inches in 1/1000th of a second (which is the polling rate, 1000 times a second.)
But is this even useful or is it just placebo now? Literally it takes 13 microseconds for the first signals from the eyes to hit the brain and most processing takes 80 to 100 microseconds to START beginning. Similar numbers also occur with signals from your motor area of the brain (brodmann area 4) down the thalamus, brain stem, spinal chord, to peripheral nerves, and reaching the muscles to actually move the muscles and bones to DO THE THING.
Same thing with g forces, 40 Gs is rocket sled acceleration. By comparison
Roland00Address - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
Damn I actually hit submit early in the previous post.Same thing with g forces, 40 Gs is rocket sled acceleration. By comparison the fastest race cars with G forces are between 4 to 8 Gs during the most rapid acceleration, rapid deceleration aka brakes (braking is more g forces than speeding up), and the most severe turns.
-----
I have no doubt this logitech mouse is better than other mice, but the marketing terms seem so superfluous with no point of reference and thus no *useful* subjectivity that I have no clue what they are trying to communicate. Bigger numbers are not really better, it is like monitors contrast ratio when we are not talking a specific pixel and its ability to change but instead talk about dynamic contrast ratio of comparing two different pixels on different areas of the monitor. (Aka x vs x*x)
limitedaccess - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
It's a spec regarding the failure speed of the sensor.Generally speaking the current generation of top end sensors have reached the "good enough" stage in which it generally isn't a factor anymore but this wasn't always the case. Failure speed for example was an issue with some previous generation sensors (when they were still sub 3 meters per second) as some people during quick flicks could exceed them causing the mouse to stop tracking or other anomalies.
Inteli - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
That number is excessive, but not meaningless. 400 inches per second refers to the max tracking speed of the sensor. Practically, it means "you can move the mouse 400 inches per second and it will still track accurately". Above a sensor's max tracking speed, the mouse won't track accurately any more and you'll experience some abnormal behavior.5 years ago this figure was much more important. Optical sensors (which are almost always more accurate than laser sensors) used to have very low max tracking speeds. I believe the revered MLT04 used in the Wheel Mouse Optical and Intellimouse Optical had a max tracking speed of about 1.5 meters per second (5 feet per second, 60 inches per second), and even the modern (at the time) sensors were around this same number. While this sounds plenty fast, in some games (namely Counter-Strike) it's not unheard of for a player to move 15+ inches in a quarter second, which exceeds the max tracking speed of these sensors. In fact, this was such an issue that at one point Logitech included an accelerometer in one of their mice (the G402) to take over for the sensor at a certain speed.
Nowadays, sensors have progressed enough that max tracking speed isn't an issue anymore (at least for high-end mice), but it's still not a meaningless term, especially for budget mice like this. It's like n-key rollover for keyboards. Being able to press more keys is objectively better up to a certain point (probably 10 key rollover), but once you pass that limit it's not an issue. However, it's nice to know that in some rare instance where you do need to press all the keys, or move your mouse very fast, it won't be an issue.
milkod2001 - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
Anybody can recommend good NON wireless mouse? My Logitech G500 is just about to die, looking for decent replacement at around $100 or less. Primarily for Pubg and SC2.Inteli - Thursday, May 17, 2018 - link
Logitech's successor to the G500(s) is the G502, which is fine. It's a few years old, but the shape and weight should be similar. If you wanted something lighter, there's the G403. I'd go to a local brick and mortar computer store and look at what they have on display. There's nothing wrong with either of those mice.milkod2001 - Friday, May 18, 2018 - link
Thanks