If this can make the same capacity of RAM cheaper, I'm all for it. RAM prices are insane right now, and I saw another news article saying companies are being investigated for price fixing, which makes it worse.
True. At least there was a recent article here about 2 new Chinese memory factories going on-line. This could in a a couple months (say 6+) finally make an impact on prices. Even if they only serve the Chinese market, that market would need less RAM from Samsung and co.
I don't even have a DDR4 system, yet. My DDR3 systems are still going strong for the use cases (HTPC, Mediaserver, Laptop, Desktop gaming). I was looking into upgrading to a Ryzen, but the DDR4 RAM prices are kind of hindering my enthusiasm. Especially when I see that it was at half the cost or so a year-ish ago.
I'm on DDR3 still. But DDR4 to DDR5 is a bigger jump than DDR3 to 4. There's way more significant underneath changes than mentioned here. It goes beyond just max bandwidth. Like DDR5 being able to read AND write at the exact same time now or the fact the voltage regulator is on the DIMM instead, which I think will make stability MUCH better for overclocked RAM. There's a bunch of other things too.
I'm still on DDR3 too; and if this article's right about a 2020/21 consumer release date, then like DDR2 I'll probably end up skipping DDR4 on my main desktop boxes. I only had (non-embedded) DDR2 in my NAS and a Core Duo laptop. I'm planning on a new NAS in about a year, if I keep my current laptop that long's more up in the air. My XPS13 is 2.5 years old, if I upgrade to a thin gaming laptop (GTX 1050/60 or equivalent) I might replace it as soon as next year. If I decide to stay with just a premium CatTube platform 4.5 to 6 years isn't out of the question unless the battery flakes again (I got a warranty replacement last fall).
yeh they need to make sure it is "low cost" and "high yield" to make pricing as low as they possibly can, DDR4 is vastly superior to the cost and production compared to what DDR3-2-DDR is/was, they get way more per wafer but they certainly do not seem to pass the savings down the pipe to the end consumer (us)
that CL is nasty though, for the amount of people that complain that systems feel somewhat more sluggish now than they used to even though benchmarks and such tell a different tale, I can just imagine what jumping fro CL16 to CL42 would do to this "sluggish" feeling, very high end system feeling like it is from 20 years ago, but man it makes them games look pretty and you can open 100000000 internet tabs at the same time
I suppose there is also the fact that if they use an interposer or whatever to increase overall capacity, the potential savings would be non existent because of the fact there is more material and engineering steps that must take place.
So will be a station wagon that can load a grocery store in its trunk, does not use as much fuel and if you stomp on the throttle pedal eventually you get to where you are going freight train like fashion.
CAS latency is measured in cycles, not time. 14 cycles at 3200MHz is less latency than 9 cycles at 1600MHz. No idea what you're on about with systems feeling more sluggish.
Sure, but accordingly 42 cycles at 4400 MHz is much, much worse latency than the 21 cycles of the (overclocked) G.Skill's DDR4-5000 memory or the 19 cycles of G.Skill's fastest non overclocked DDR4-4700 memory. More than twice as worse actually.
On the other hand, of course, with DDR5's 1.1 voltage you will burn much less power (and give off much less heat) than the 1.45 V of these two G.Skill memory modules. Still, we are talking about latency. I frankly wonder how high the CAS latency of DDR5-6400 is going to be..
So, basically you shown zero actual evidence that proves higher latency cycles are detrimental to future real world performance on DDR5 vs that of on DDR4.
Well we do know that Ryzen is severely affected by memory latency. We are taking about 20% with tuned memory vs stock. So it does matter. CL42 sounds really terrible and that is for 4400mhz. Lets be optimistic and we end up with CL40 at 6400mhz. That would still be like CL20 on 3200mhz ddr4. that could really be an issue. It's not all about bandwidth...
In previous DDR generations and transitions between them I believe the CL values have stayed roughly constant in nanosecond terms. Barring a statement to the contrary I'd speculate that the very loose timings that CL42 implies are indicative of a very early implementation before anything has been tightened up rather than an indication of final performance levels.
I'd caution you against staking all your hopes on that. It's not quite likely DDR5 will hit mainstream status next year, and you'd likely need a new motherboard to support it.
Can someone explain what we are looking at, here? I am not at all familiar with early-release lab equipment as it might relate to future, commercial technology.
You've got two large red things, and they each feature a big pipe fitting in the center of the board. I guess that's where you drop your data in, to flush it to the DRAM? And all those gold coax connectors: are those optical or microwave I/O? Test points?
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
31 Comments
Back to Article
MajGenRelativity - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
If this can make the same capacity of RAM cheaper, I'm all for it. RAM prices are insane right now, and I saw another news article saying companies are being investigated for price fixing, which makes it worse.beginner99 - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
True. At least there was a recent article here about 2 new Chinese memory factories going on-line. This could in a a couple months (say 6+) finally make an impact on prices. Even if they only serve the Chinese market, that market would need less RAM from Samsung and co.haukionkannel - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
These will be extremely expensive server RAM... so not help there. In long run 5-10 years these can make ram cheaper... maybe.Death666Angel - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
I don't even have a DDR4 system, yet. My DDR3 systems are still going strong for the use cases (HTPC, Mediaserver, Laptop, Desktop gaming). I was looking into upgrading to a Ryzen, but the DDR4 RAM prices are kind of hindering my enthusiasm. Especially when I see that it was at half the cost or so a year-ish ago.CheapSushi - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
I'm on DDR3 still. But DDR4 to DDR5 is a bigger jump than DDR3 to 4. There's way more significant underneath changes than mentioned here. It goes beyond just max bandwidth. Like DDR5 being able to read AND write at the exact same time now or the fact the voltage regulator is on the DIMM instead, which I think will make stability MUCH better for overclocked RAM. There's a bunch of other things too.CheapSushi - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Derp, these were mentioned.beginner99 - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Voltage regulators on module are server only and maybe some very high end (high priced) consumer motherboards. Think X399 from AMD/IntelDanNeely - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
I'm still on DDR3 too; and if this article's right about a 2020/21 consumer release date, then like DDR2 I'll probably end up skipping DDR4 on my main desktop boxes. I only had (non-embedded) DDR2 in my NAS and a Core Duo laptop. I'm planning on a new NAS in about a year, if I keep my current laptop that long's more up in the air. My XPS13 is 2.5 years old, if I upgrade to a thin gaming laptop (GTX 1050/60 or equivalent) I might replace it as soon as next year. If I decide to stay with just a premium CatTube platform 4.5 to 6 years isn't out of the question unless the battery flakes again (I got a warranty replacement last fall).piroroadkill - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
My only DDR4 systems are my Denverton based NASes :Dmr_tawan - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
I'm planing to buy a new laptop this year. So, until then, I too only have DDR3-based systems. I even have a couple of DDR2 and DDR sticks around....Dragonstongue - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
yeh they need to make sure it is "low cost" and "high yield" to make pricing as low as they possibly can, DDR4 is vastly superior to the cost and production compared to what DDR3-2-DDR is/was, they get way more per wafer but they certainly do not seem to pass the savings down the pipe to the end consumer (us)that CL is nasty though, for the amount of people that complain that systems feel somewhat more sluggish now than they used to even though benchmarks and such tell a different tale, I can just imagine what jumping fro CL16 to CL42 would do to this "sluggish" feeling, very high end system feeling like it is from 20 years ago, but man it makes them games look pretty and you can open 100000000 internet tabs at the same time
I suppose there is also the fact that if they use an interposer or whatever to increase overall capacity, the potential savings would be non existent because of the fact there is more material and engineering steps that must take place.
So will be a station wagon that can load a grocery store in its trunk, does not use as much fuel and if you stomp on the throttle pedal eventually you get to where you are going freight train like fashion.
LMAO.
MajGenRelativity - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Where do you see the CL42?Death666Angel - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
First line of the 2nd paragraph.MajGenRelativity - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Thank you. Blindness strikes againibnmadhi - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
CAS latency is measured in cycles, not time. 14 cycles at 3200MHz is less latency than 9 cycles at 1600MHz. No idea what you're on about with systems feeling more sluggish.Santoval - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Sure, but accordingly 42 cycles at 4400 MHz is much, much worse latency than the 21 cycles of the (overclocked) G.Skill's DDR4-5000 memory or the 19 cycles of G.Skill's fastest non overclocked DDR4-4700 memory. More than twice as worse actually.On the other hand, of course, with DDR5's 1.1 voltage you will burn much less power (and give off much less heat) than the 1.45 V of these two G.Skill memory modules. Still, we are talking about latency. I frankly wonder how high the CAS latency of DDR5-6400 is going to be..
StrangerGuy - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
So, basically you shown zero actual evidence that proves higher latency cycles are detrimental to future real world performance on DDR5 vs that of on DDR4.beginner99 - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Well we do know that Ryzen is severely affected by memory latency. We are taking about 20% with tuned memory vs stock. So it does matter. CL42 sounds really terrible and that is for 4400mhz. Lets be optimistic and we end up with CL40 at 6400mhz. That would still be like CL20 on 3200mhz ddr4. that could really be an issue. It's not all about bandwidth...DanNeely - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
In previous DDR generations and transitions between them I believe the CL values have stayed roughly constant in nanosecond terms. Barring a statement to the contrary I'd speculate that the very loose timings that CL42 implies are indicative of a very early implementation before anything has been tightened up rather than an indication of final performance levels.smilingcrow - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 - link
Exactly. This uses the provisional DDR5 specification and is the first release of its kind so moaning about the performance is plain silly.iwod - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
What are the maximum capacity per DIMM for DDR5? Samsung showcase 128GB DDR4 DIMM not long ago.CheapSushi - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Crucial showed off a 128GB but it's around $4,000 a stick.iwod - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Even Quad Channel memory with 8 DIMM, that is still only 1TB. For Next generational maximum capacity I thought that is too little.JFish222 - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
For those trying to keep score between DDR4 and DDR5:DDR4: PC4-25600
Max MT/S: 3200
CAS[JDEC]: 20 to 24
CAS[XMP]: 14
DDR4 [Non-JDEC]: PC4 36800
Max MT/S: 4600
CAS: 19
DDR5 JDEC Release
Today MT/S: 4400
Max: 6400
Sttm - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
7nm Ryzen 2 with DD5 ITX build next year!MajGenRelativity - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
I'd caution you against staking all your hopes on that. It's not quite likely DDR5 will hit mainstream status next year, and you'd likely need a new motherboard to support it.T1beriu - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
>7nm Ryzen 2 with DD5 ITX build next year!Sure. It looks that DDR5 it's coming to mainstream in 2020/2021.
yuhong - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
So how does this compare to the 16Gbit DDR4 timeframe?rtho782 - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Given crazy memory prices I'd rather they didn't bother.The stupid expense of replacing DDR3 with DDR4 is the only reason I'm still on Devils Canyon.
eva02langley - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Well, look like Quantum Computer are going to be able to host more memory and raise that QBIT limit.watersb - Saturday, May 5, 2018 - link
Can someone explain what we are looking at, here? I am not at all familiar with early-release lab equipment as it might relate to future, commercial technology.You've got two large red things, and they each feature a big pipe fitting in the center of the board. I guess that's where you drop your data in, to flush it to the DRAM? And all those gold coax connectors: are those optical or microwave I/O? Test points?
I'm seriously lost here.