Working for a company that builds wafer handling equipment for Intel (and a dozen others), I can tell you CE! is both a joke and completely useless as a measure of QUALITY. CE! is there only for REPEATABILITY, and often times Intel (and others) will use the same broken hardware and software for decades (some of the stuff I work on and Intel uses was designed in the 90s), even though a new update was made years ago that would solve a lot of production issues and also improve throughput (i.e. more chips during rampup). Even worse, the entire philosophy of CE! is flawed, since you CANNOT expect things that work in one country/environment work in another. If they move a factory from a place with 15% humidity (i.e. Arizona) to one with 80% humidity, all their CE! goes out the door since now you need equipment to deal with that, and that equipment now changes how the plant works!
Maybe I shouldn't wear a tinfoil hat about this stuff, but US agencies have been particularly wary about electronics produced in China for a while, since sometimes the manufacturing facilities can get secret government orders to implant snooping hardware into it. Not sure how effective that might be for a CPU, but we never had to consider this before when the CPUs were coming from Malaysia or Thailand before.
Hopefully Intel keeps the manufacturing there under tight wraps and no hardware-level bugs are introduced.
A lot of them already have huge commitments in the US. In fact, Global Foundaries is the single largest private (perhaps total) employer in Vermont, and their operations in several other states are larger than that! (I think anadtech guys got to go to the malta plant)
I don't think they are actually fabbing the CPUs there, just assembling and packaging. Most of their fabs are still in the US. Their only chinese fab makes memory - 3DNAND and XPoint.
Modifying a die after it has been made seems largely impossible, other then possibly lasering stuff off, but not adding spyware. :)
Intel is almost certainly not fabbing cpu's abroad. Congress put a moratorium on sharing any silicon manufacturing capabilities below certain feature sizes. During the haswell days the limit was 45nm. Once we reached 14nm I think the limit of sharing moved down to 28nm. Not sure what the limit is now or if the limit is still in place. Intel, AMD and any other US companies couldn't share Intellectual Property or hardware that would allow foreign countries to match or surpass our technology... National security and all...
nevcairel was correct, but did not say Intel did not have CPU fabs abroad, he said they don't have CPU fabs in China. Intel has CPU fabs in Ireland and Israel, but as nevcairel, MOST of them are in the States.
I can't see it being a big deal for the assembly of CPUs since they don't fab them, but it's definitely a concern for other components. ESPECIALLY motherboards and the various chips on them.
Even when there's no intentional backdoors, many manufacturers don't take security very seriously.
I would think Boxed processors are more complicated to manufacture - unlike mobile processors and processors sent to oem's - like Dell, Lenovo, HP and others which likely get their processors on trays. Boxed processors have to go though step of boxing them up, including manuals and such also included with them.
It will surely help the Chinese semiconductor fabrication industry to see how a leading edge fab is setup and operated. That said, I doubt Intel had much choice in the matter, if they wanted to continue enjoying access to the Chinese domestic market.
Perhaps this is a sign that Intel is actually looking to get out of the semiconductor fabrication business, before long.
Real question is, have these new CPU’s been changed to protect against Meltdown and Spectre? If not, why buy them when the fixed versions will come later this year.
At least the fixed versions will be faster again for certain compute demands.
What are the chances Intel is rolling out eight core Coffee Lake at COMPUTEX and they thought being able to buy one in the first three months after "launch" would be a cool, new thing to try.
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douglaswilliams - Wednesday, May 2, 2018 - link
Clicked the article thinking Intel was testing “Boxed Coffee.” Maybe for a Keurig?The Copy Exactly! Program sounds like a good idea and reassures customers about quality regardless of country of manufacture/testing/boxing.
HStewart - Wednesday, May 2, 2018 - link
Well since you are obviously joking around here, how about this onehttps://www.drugs.com/international/ryzen.html
In this frame of reference it would be seen as a boxed drug.
basroil - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Working for a company that builds wafer handling equipment for Intel (and a dozen others), I can tell you CE! is both a joke and completely useless as a measure of QUALITY. CE! is there only for REPEATABILITY, and often times Intel (and others) will use the same broken hardware and software for decades (some of the stuff I work on and Intel uses was designed in the 90s), even though a new update was made years ago that would solve a lot of production issues and also improve throughput (i.e. more chips during rampup). Even worse, the entire philosophy of CE! is flawed, since you CANNOT expect things that work in one country/environment work in another. If they move a factory from a place with 15% humidity (i.e. Arizona) to one with 80% humidity, all their CE! goes out the door since now you need equipment to deal with that, and that equipment now changes how the plant works!JoeyJoJo123 - Wednesday, May 2, 2018 - link
Maybe I shouldn't wear a tinfoil hat about this stuff, but US agencies have been particularly wary about electronics produced in China for a while, since sometimes the manufacturing facilities can get secret government orders to implant snooping hardware into it. Not sure how effective that might be for a CPU, but we never had to consider this before when the CPUs were coming from Malaysia or Thailand before.Hopefully Intel keeps the manufacturing there under tight wraps and no hardware-level bugs are introduced.
HStewart - Wednesday, May 2, 2018 - link
This is not a problem just for Intel - but most companies today - ideally it would be nice for them to move manufacturing back to the states.basroil - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
A lot of them already have huge commitments in the US. In fact, Global Foundaries is the single largest private (perhaps total) employer in Vermont, and their operations in several other states are larger than that! (I think anadtech guys got to go to the malta plant)nevcairiel - Wednesday, May 2, 2018 - link
I don't think they are actually fabbing the CPUs there, just assembling and packaging. Most of their fabs are still in the US. Their only chinese fab makes memory - 3DNAND and XPoint.Modifying a die after it has been made seems largely impossible, other then possibly lasering stuff off, but not adding spyware. :)
Ej24 - Wednesday, May 2, 2018 - link
Intel is almost certainly not fabbing cpu's abroad. Congress put a moratorium on sharing any silicon manufacturing capabilities below certain feature sizes. During the haswell days the limit was 45nm. Once we reached 14nm I think the limit of sharing moved down to 28nm. Not sure what the limit is now or if the limit is still in place. Intel, AMD and any other US companies couldn't share Intellectual Property or hardware that would allow foreign countries to match or surpass our technology... National security and all...catavalon21 - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
nevcairel was correct, but did not say Intel did not have CPU fabs abroad, he said they don't have CPU fabs in China. Intel has CPU fabs in Ireland and Israel, but as nevcairel, MOST of them are in the States.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-intel-pl...
https://www.techpowerup.com/179071/mass-production...
Alexvrb - Wednesday, May 2, 2018 - link
I can't see it being a big deal for the assembly of CPUs since they don't fab them, but it's definitely a concern for other components. ESPECIALLY motherboards and the various chips on them.Even when there's no intentional backdoors, many manufacturers don't take security very seriously.
HStewart - Wednesday, May 2, 2018 - link
I would think Boxed processors are more complicated to manufacture - unlike mobile processors and processors sent to oem's - like Dell, Lenovo, HP and others which likely get their processors on trays. Boxed processors have to go though step of boxing them up, including manuals and such also included with them.mode_13h - Wednesday, May 2, 2018 - link
It will surely help the Chinese semiconductor fabrication industry to see how a leading edge fab is setup and operated. That said, I doubt Intel had much choice in the matter, if they wanted to continue enjoying access to the Chinese domestic market.Perhaps this is a sign that Intel is actually looking to get out of the semiconductor fabrication business, before long.
Agent Smith - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Real question is, have these new CPU’s been changed to protect against Meltdown and Spectre? If not, why buy them when the fixed versions will come later this year.At least the fixed versions will be faster again for certain compute demands.
nevcairiel - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Which "new CPUs" are you speaking of? Coffee Lake was released October 2017.evilpaul666 - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
What are the chances Intel is rolling out eight core Coffee Lake at COMPUTEX and they thought being able to buy one in the first three months after "launch" would be a cool, new thing to try.