I have a PC Power & Cooling 1200W Silencer Mark III that I purchased 5 years ago. It had already been on the market for a year or 2 at that point. It is also 180mm deep. I don't find the following statement to be terribly compelling, or remarkable, in light of this fact: "Both units are 180 mm deep, which is relatively short for units with that kind of power output, yet certainly longer than what the ATX standard dictates."
We need more compact SFX PSUs. I understand there is a market for this but it baffles me why I kept using tower cases after having moved to an SFF case which can fit a 1080 ti, 32 gigs of ram, 8700k, two 3.5inch hdd and multiple ssds. All in a case a about 30 the size of my previous case.
I just really want an SFX-L PSU with two EPS connectors for HEDT boards. I really don't care for the size of regular PSU's anymore regardless of what I'm building and what case. It just seems natural that with everything else miniaturizing, getting better, etc, that PSU's should too. Hell, sometimes the PSU's are half the volume of the rest of what takes up the space in an build.
PSUs are the only component in a PC that have to use some pretty large components like thumb-sized electrolytic capacitors, transformers, chokes, or even the AC socket (by function and design) while also dissipating up to 100+W.
Now of course problem might be solved by throwing enough money at it. But would you still like the sticker price?
There're SFX sized PSUs powerful enough to run dual GPUs, so there's no technical reason they couldn't offer 2xEPS connectors instead.
I'd suggest @CheapSushi look for a modular design that uses the same 12V connector on the PSU for the EPS and GPU cables; then get 2nd EPS cable for it separately. With full ATX if they use the same PSUside plug or not is hit and miss, so you need to look closely. It should be clear from the markings on the PSU itself though if they're specialized or generic 12V 8 pin sockets.
Sorry, I somehow read the comment as "I really don't care for the size of [SFX] PSUs anymore". Was wondering how much smaller can they get ant still do the job at a reasonable price.
There isn't a standard size significantly smaller than SFX. The longer narrower TFX spec might be a better fit for really thin SFF cases, but is only a few percent smaller in internal volume. Below that in size you end up with PicoPSU's and their equivalent which take a 12V (or 19V in some higher power models) external power brick which plugs into a tiny PCB that plugs into the 24pin atx connector and has a handful of other cables branch off from there. Looking at the size of higher powered laptop bricks you probably could make a 1/2 to 1/4 SFX sized internal PSU with a 40/50mm fan for GPUless SFF systems; but with even smaller platforms like NUC eating that segment of the market there probably isn't the demand for it.
There isn't a standard size significantly smaller than SFX. The longer narrower TFX spec might be a better fit for really thin SFF cases, but is only a few percent smaller in internal volume. Below that in size you end up with PicoPSU's and their equivalent which take a 12V (or 19V in some higher power models) external power brick which plugs into a tiny PCB that plugs into the 24pin atx connector and has a handful of other cables branch off from there. Looking at the size of higher powered laptop bricks you probably could make a 1/2 to 1/4 SFX sized internal PSU with a 40/50mm fan for GPUless SFF systems; but with even smaller platforms like NUC eating that segment of the market there probably isn't the demand for it.
Also look into PSU's like FSP's Twins 500W. Two PSU's, redundant, in the same ATX form factor and then tell me power density can't be improved in SFX and SFX-L.
One issue is that PSU cables are not standardized. I've seen some SFX PSU's label their port as GPU & CPU. But some other SFX PSU's don't. I've read some people have accidentally screwed up their mobos because of this.
As for close, there are SFX-L examples already showing what you can do with density. There's already new improvements taking hold with all digital designs and for example Corsair using Gallium Nitride (GaN) MOSFET's. I am 100% prepared to pay more for better SFX and SFX-L PSU's and as they become the norm and companies focus more on them, price would go down regardless. You're assuming just because parts are larger than power per volume can't get any better. That's not true at all. I just don't see the point of ATX anymore in terms of necessity unless going up to 1500W to 2000W where you do need more space. Almost every single consumer rig, gaming rig and most workstations have enough with SFX and SFX-L. Just my issue is that power cables are NOT standardized, the ports aren't standardized and I can't seem to find an SFX-L with 100% assured confidence that I can use a port for a second EPS.
I'm still rocking an 11 year old PCP&C 750 Quad. 80 Plus something or other rating. I think it was rated 80 Plus before there were even sub-categories of 80 Plus.
I had the same PSU but it died (for the second time, first was under warranty and it was repaired not replaced) about a year and a half ago. Still not a bad service life.
That was a very good supply in its day, and is probably fine to keep using in whatever you've got it in for as long as you keep it. I'd be hesitant to install it in a new built system today though.
I can't find any reviews that did a cross load test on it; but from its age it's almost certainly a design with separate 12V and 3.3/5V segments whose voltages get out of spec if you put a huge load one of them and barely anything on the second (aka cross load).
That's an issue because modern systems use 12V almost exclusively and put very little load on the 3.3/5V rail (PCIe cards can draw up to [email protected], a few years ago AMD was to get the most power out of the slot, nvidia was limiting itself to the 65W available at 12V; USB draws 5V for most uses, 2.5/3.5" drives might tap 5V, but almost never touch the 3.3V line because of molex to sata adapters that leave it unpowered); which puts older PSUs into a cross load situation if you're running GPUs and load the 12V rail heavily. Newer designs avoided this by going pure 12V at the AC-DC conversion step and then making lower voltages via DC-DC conversion.
"considering that the ST1000-PT was struggling to reach the 80Plus Platinum certification limits"
@E.F: You should know, since you are a PSU specialist, that Silverstone has got a history of marketing units made by Enhance, which fail to meet the Certification limits or barely make it.
Case in point, my own Silverstone Strider Gold 850W. This unit fails to meet the Gold Certification by 1-2 %. This is a year 2011 PSU and the reviewer who first noted the fact was Johnny Guru.
After, what, 7 years Silverstone learned nothing from the negative publicity and they just keep doing the same thing. Ofc such data does not concern the average buyer out there who buy PSU's b/c of attractive packaging or good price, just us enthusiasts.
Silverstone sells good, solid units, just not without flaws and not the best-of-the-best. I'd label them Tier 2 or Tier 3.
Tier 1 is Seasonic, FSP, Corsair, and Enermax who design (and in the case of Enermax build) their own power supplies. Many of the other ones simply use an OEM design, possibly with a few modifications, but in many cases it is simply an OEM with specific paint/color scheme, or specific cables, etc..
The noise from these are HORRIBLE. I HATED the 1200W one i bought for my threadripper 3960x rig. Swapped it out as soon as BeQuiet large PSU was available during the pandemic. (So I had too many weeks with horrible PSU noise in my office).
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techguymaxc - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
I have a PC Power & Cooling 1200W Silencer Mark III that I purchased 5 years ago. It had already been on the market for a year or 2 at that point. It is also 180mm deep. I don't find the following statement to be terribly compelling, or remarkable, in light of this fact: "Both units are 180 mm deep, which is relatively short for units with that kind of power output, yet certainly longer than what the ATX standard dictates."milkywayer - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
We need more compact SFX PSUs. I understand there is a market for this but it baffles me why I kept using tower cases after having moved to an SFF case which can fit a 1080 ti, 32 gigs of ram, 8700k, two 3.5inch hdd and multiple ssds. All in a case a about 30 the size of my previous case.CheapSushi - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
I just really want an SFX-L PSU with two EPS connectors for HEDT boards. I really don't care for the size of regular PSU's anymore regardless of what I'm building and what case. It just seems natural that with everything else miniaturizing, getting better, etc, that PSU's should too. Hell, sometimes the PSU's are half the volume of the rest of what takes up the space in an build.close - Monday, May 7, 2018 - link
PSUs are the only component in a PC that have to use some pretty large components like thumb-sized electrolytic capacitors, transformers, chokes, or even the AC socket (by function and design) while also dissipating up to 100+W.Now of course problem might be solved by throwing enough money at it. But would you still like the sticker price?
DanNeely - Monday, May 7, 2018 - link
There're SFX sized PSUs powerful enough to run dual GPUs, so there's no technical reason they couldn't offer 2xEPS connectors instead.I'd suggest @CheapSushi look for a modular design that uses the same 12V connector on the PSU for the EPS and GPU cables; then get 2nd EPS cable for it separately. With full ATX if they use the same PSUside plug or not is hit and miss, so you need to look closely. It should be clear from the markings on the PSU itself though if they're specialized or generic 12V 8 pin sockets.
close - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 - link
Sorry, I somehow read the comment as "I really don't care for the size of [SFX] PSUs anymore". Was wondering how much smaller can they get ant still do the job at a reasonable price.DanNeely - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 - link
There isn't a standard size significantly smaller than SFX. The longer narrower TFX spec might be a better fit for really thin SFF cases, but is only a few percent smaller in internal volume. Below that in size you end up with PicoPSU's and their equivalent which take a 12V (or 19V in some higher power models) external power brick which plugs into a tiny PCB that plugs into the 24pin atx connector and has a handful of other cables branch off from there. Looking at the size of higher powered laptop bricks you probably could make a 1/2 to 1/4 SFX sized internal PSU with a 40/50mm fan for GPUless SFF systems; but with even smaller platforms like NUC eating that segment of the market there probably isn't the demand for it.DanNeely - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 - link
There isn't a standard size significantly smaller than SFX. The longer narrower TFX spec might be a better fit for really thin SFF cases, but is only a few percent smaller in internal volume. Below that in size you end up with PicoPSU's and their equivalent which take a 12V (or 19V in some higher power models) external power brick which plugs into a tiny PCB that plugs into the 24pin atx connector and has a handful of other cables branch off from there. Looking at the size of higher powered laptop bricks you probably could make a 1/2 to 1/4 SFX sized internal PSU with a 40/50mm fan for GPUless SFF systems; but with even smaller platforms like NUC eating that segment of the market there probably isn't the demand for it.CheapSushi - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
Also look into PSU's like FSP's Twins 500W. Two PSU's, redundant, in the same ATX form factor and then tell me power density can't be improved in SFX and SFX-L.CheapSushi - Wednesday, May 9, 2018 - link
One issue is that PSU cables are not standardized. I've seen some SFX PSU's label their port as GPU & CPU. But some other SFX PSU's don't. I've read some people have accidentally screwed up their mobos because of this.As for close, there are SFX-L examples already showing what you can do with density. There's already new improvements taking hold with all digital designs and for example Corsair using Gallium Nitride (GaN) MOSFET's. I am 100% prepared to pay more for better SFX and SFX-L PSU's and as they become the norm and companies focus more on them, price would go down regardless. You're assuming just because parts are larger than power per volume can't get any better. That's not true at all. I just don't see the point of ATX anymore in terms of necessity unless going up to 1500W to 2000W where you do need more space. Almost every single consumer rig, gaming rig and most workstations have enough with SFX and SFX-L. Just my issue is that power cables are NOT standardized, the ports aren't standardized and I can't seem to find an SFX-L with 100% assured confidence that I can use a port for a second EPS.
Samus - Saturday, May 5, 2018 - link
I'm still rocking an 11 year old PCP&C 750 Quad. 80 Plus something or other rating. I think it was rated 80 Plus before there were even sub-categories of 80 Plus.notashill - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 - link
I had the same PSU but it died (for the second time, first was under warranty and it was repaired not replaced) about a year and a half ago. Still not a bad service life.DanNeely - Tuesday, May 8, 2018 - link
That was a very good supply in its day, and is probably fine to keep using in whatever you've got it in for as long as you keep it. I'd be hesitant to install it in a new built system today though.I can't find any reviews that did a cross load test on it; but from its age it's almost certainly a design with separate 12V and 3.3/5V segments whose voltages get out of spec if you put a huge load one of them and barely anything on the second (aka cross load).
That's an issue because modern systems use 12V almost exclusively and put very little load on the 3.3/5V rail (PCIe cards can draw up to [email protected], a few years ago AMD was to get the most power out of the slot, nvidia was limiting itself to the 65W available at 12V; USB draws 5V for most uses, 2.5/3.5" drives might tap 5V, but almost never touch the 3.3V line because of molex to sata adapters that leave it unpowered); which puts older PSUs into a cross load situation if you're running GPUs and load the 12V rail heavily. Newer designs avoided this by going pure 12V at the AC-DC conversion step and then making lower voltages via DC-DC conversion.
Achaios - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
"considering that the ST1000-PT was struggling to reach the 80Plus Platinum certification limits"@E.F: You should know, since you are a PSU specialist, that Silverstone has got a history of marketing units made by Enhance, which fail to meet the Certification limits or barely make it.
Case in point, my own Silverstone Strider Gold 850W. This unit fails to meet the Gold Certification by 1-2 %. This is a year 2011 PSU and the reviewer who first noted the fact was Johnny Guru.
After, what, 7 years Silverstone learned nothing from the negative publicity and they just keep doing the same thing. Ofc such data does not concern the average buyer out there who buy PSU's b/c of attractive packaging or good price, just us enthusiasts.
Silverstone sells good, solid units, just not without flaws and not the best-of-the-best. I'd label them Tier 2 or Tier 3.
stanleyipkiss - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Who is Tier 1 then?praeses - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Seasonicpraeses - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
... and probably FSP Group after them.Fallen Kell - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Tier 1 is Seasonic, FSP, Corsair, and Enermax who design (and in the case of Enermax build) their own power supplies. Many of the other ones simply use an OEM design, possibly with a few modifications, but in many cases it is simply an OEM with specific paint/color scheme, or specific cables, etc..praeses - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Corsair is usually Seasonic or FSP. I'm not sure that I would put Enermax in the same tier as Seasonic/FSP.piroroadkill - Monday, May 7, 2018 - link
As far as I recall, Corsair uses Great Wall for a good number of their mid-range units, and Flextronics at the very high end.JKJK - Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - link
The noise from these are HORRIBLE. I HATED the 1200W one i bought for my threadripper 3960x rig. Swapped it out as soon as BeQuiet large PSU was available during the pandemic. (So I had too many weeks with horrible PSU noise in my office).