Ultra low power (ULP) is like sub-5W. 15W is just low power in the mobile world.
Second (as others mentioned below), the Ryzen "U" lineup has a configurable TDP. The manufacturers can configure them for a variety of systems from 12W-25W. 25W is plenty for a mainstream mobile APU in 2018.
AMD. please release an octacore mobile cpu at 45 watts with HMB. There is a market out there that needs highpower computing with ocational light gaming. Almost none of the current laptops provide this. All of intels highpowered cpus are paired with high powered graphics from nvidia, making the laptops bulky or/and low battery life.
That's not outside the realm of possibility, though it would probably be like 2GHz at full load, but it should still be able to hit turbo dual core speeds around 3.8GHz.
The laptop chips have TDP configurable from 12-25W, and actually the 65W desktop parts can already be configured to 35W (if the motherboard supports cTDP).
Configurable, yes, but their nominal TDP is 15 and even a boost to 25W as some devices do isn't a substitute for a 35-45W SKU. According to the table in this very article the 65W parts only go down 20W.
Yes, AMD says that but at least in the MSI B350I Pro AC it can in fact be set to 35W. Either way they're all the same chip running at different clockspeeds and the power limit is enforced by software.
Also I'm not trying to imply the 35W SKU is pointless or anything, I'm sure they're binned to perform a bit better than the 65W chips at a reduced cTDP and/or the pricing is a bit more favorable for OEMs. Just pointing out the options for what you can do with existing SKUs.
Yes, I know they're the same chip but AMD (generally) dictates the limit. Seems odd that they would allow an out-of-spec TDP but either way AMD needs to compete with Intel's larger laptop SKUs but I suppose they think the payoff isn't there.
Essentially what I'm saying is that they need to put Raven Ridge on a bga package and give them a 35-50W TDP range. Nothing more. It should be a trivial task but may not be worth the effort. Perhaps they'll do it next year with Zen2.
"Nominal TDP" OK. They can be configured for 25W if the manufacturer desires. At that point, it's a 25W TDP chip. If hardly any OEMs are going for 25W configs, what makes anyone think they would want a socketed 35W chip in a mainstream laptop?
Nominal TDP just means it's what it was designed for. Intel also has SKUs with configurable TDP but generally OEMs stick with the recommended spec. What I'm saying is that AMD is at a disadvantage when competing against 45W Intel chips although they may not intend to do that.
By that logic I could claim the GE chips have a "nominal" TDP of 45-65W. The Zen and Vega cores alike are capable of excellent scaling and they're actually more efficient the lower you go. A 2700U at 25W would be more efficient than GE at 35W.
They're at a disadvantage competing against 45W chips used solely in gaming laptops with dGPUs... yes. But being the little guy they need to attack the biggest market segments first. The ideal candidate to go after high-powered gaming laptops would be a lower-TDP dual-CCX Ryzen with no iGPU. But again, it's too low volume for them to think about such a thing at this point in time. Maybe if you're lucky you'll see something after Zen 2.
Socketed, I agree, BGA would probably be required to keep the power down, same as it is on mine, but there's plenty of market for 25w or higher. With the aggressive clock control I still get 10 hours on my laptop when working at a tower site and it's under 7lbs. Perfect fit, but of course I'd always like more CPU power.
I not sure anybody would want it - at 65W this is same as 9805G in my XPS 15 2in1 and the dell has both a more powerful CPU and more powerful GPU (20 cu's vs 11's )
So far with my XPS 15 2in1 my biggest concern is GPU compatibility - CPU on it awesome - I can believe a computer half as thin as my Lenovo Y50 can be so fast. Beautiful 4K screen - I had to find workaround in Photoshop for my eyes.
Yes but at what price? These would be considerably cheaper. I do agree though that the performance/power curve may end up doing a 45W SKU a disservice and could therefore be useless.
How brew NAS, low end home servers, and/or custom routers might be able to make use of these. Does anyone know if they support ECC. If there are boards that support ECC and/or slim mini-ITX with multiple GBe ports, I'd build with them.
The APUs would not be good for home servers. They only have 8 PCIe lanes, limiting the hardware capability to the exact same as a Ryzen CPU with a video card on a X370/X470 motherboard.
What do you think requires "home servers" to have more than 8 PCIe 3 lanes? A regular Ryzen + discrete GPU would cost more than these and consume a bit more power, so even with everything else being equal these would be better.
Any source for Ryzen APUs only having 8 PCIe lanes? The old Bristol Ridge APUs had 8 lanes, but the Raven Ridge APUs have 16. Only 8 are supposed to go to the GPU PCIe slot, but they have an additional 4 for NVME storage and 4 for the chipset, which has PCIe 2.0 lanes as well, if I'm not mistaken. So you are making something out of nothing, especially since few home servers should be limited by PCIe connectivity and if they are, the PCIe stuff would likely cost an order of magnitude more than this APU anyway.
Yes. In short, u r in the same postion as w/ a ryzen and an 8 lane dgpu. Its very doable considering graphic is catered for.
Afaik, the onboard nvme m.2 port, is just a modified pcie3 x4 slot, & i imagine there are adapters for it, so the apu in reality has 12 spare pcie 3 lanes, plus the chipset's switched; lanes, ports and devices as you say.
AMD's website says "PCI Express Version: PCIe 3.0 x8" We know they're not counting the chipset and M.2 lanes in that but it's still 8 less than the other Ryzen models.
I wouldn't mind someone bringing out a NUC style Raven Ridge mainboard or at least a mini ITX with a sub 35W APU, maybe just a 15W U one. There were some motherboards by Biostar that used AMDs old APUs like that.
Unusually, their wimpiest 2 apu versions are introduced to the market first, because thats where it's perfect - the huge and juicy, lean running mobile market.
Already we see that same pair, spun into 3x ~discrete segments now.
Not a bad start for their wimp version, and still~40w of tdp wiggle room for the next version(s).
A feelgood app for this is for the many folks on the planet getting by ~off grid.
With nvram storage, lcdS & this mid point version, it equals a pc with ~laptop power use with desktop; prices, ~performance & a non proprietory adaptable platform.
A serious PC thats doable on solar/wind/12v car battery...
Whatever the size of the segment which prioritises those attributes, its a segment amd own imo. The advantages the apu enjoys from the tight integration of gpu and cpu on versatile am4 are simply overwhelming.
You cant get sensible graphics on any intel cpu w/o adding a gpu card, and you cant get near apu power figures if you add a dgpu.
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dgingeri - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Perhaps some laptops will come with these, with beefier cooling.PeachNCream - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Isn't there already a Ryzen series for laptops?bruce24 - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Yes, the Ryzen U are for Laptops.Ryzen 3 2200U
Ryzen 3 2300U
Ryzen 5 2500U
Ryzen 7 2700U
dgingeri - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Those are the ultra low power, 15W, APUs.Alexvrb - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Ultra low power (ULP) is like sub-5W. 15W is just low power in the mobile world.Second (as others mentioned below), the Ryzen "U" lineup has a configurable TDP. The manufacturers can configure them for a variety of systems from 12W-25W. 25W is plenty for a mainstream mobile APU in 2018.
bruce24 - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
The U chips are currently the only laptops chips. The are in a BGA package while the other Ryzen desktop and APU's chips are in uPGA packages.sharath.naik - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
AMD. please release an octacore mobile cpu at 45 watts with HMB. There is a market out there that needs highpower computing with ocational light gaming. Almost none of the current laptops provide this. All of intels highpowered cpus are paired with high powered graphics from nvidia, making the laptops bulky or/and low battery life.WorldWithoutMadness - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
Why not wish for quantum computer whilst at it? 45W 8C HMB for high computing, hahaha.msroadkill612 - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
lalalaptop0ldman79 - Wednesday, April 25, 2018 - link
Agreed.I can't wait for a 45w 16 thread laptop.
That's not outside the realm of possibility, though it would probably be like 2GHz at full load, but it should still be able to hit turbo dual core speeds around 3.8GHz.
Trixanity - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Only 15W chips.notashill - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
The laptop chips have TDP configurable from 12-25W, and actually the 65W desktop parts can already be configured to 35W (if the motherboard supports cTDP).Trixanity - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Configurable, yes, but their nominal TDP is 15 and even a boost to 25W as some devices do isn't a substitute for a 35-45W SKU. According to the table in this very article the 65W parts only go down 20W.notashill - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Yes, AMD says that but at least in the MSI B350I Pro AC it can in fact be set to 35W. Either way they're all the same chip running at different clockspeeds and the power limit is enforced by software.notashill - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Also I'm not trying to imply the 35W SKU is pointless or anything, I'm sure they're binned to perform a bit better than the 65W chips at a reduced cTDP and/or the pricing is a bit more favorable for OEMs. Just pointing out the options for what you can do with existing SKUs.Trixanity - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
Yes, I know they're the same chip but AMD (generally) dictates the limit. Seems odd that they would allow an out-of-spec TDP but either way AMD needs to compete with Intel's larger laptop SKUs but I suppose they think the payoff isn't there.Essentially what I'm saying is that they need to put Raven Ridge on a bga package and give them a 35-50W TDP range. Nothing more. It should be a trivial task but may not be worth the effort. Perhaps they'll do it next year with Zen2.
Alexvrb - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
"Nominal TDP" OK. They can be configured for 25W if the manufacturer desires. At that point, it's a 25W TDP chip. If hardly any OEMs are going for 25W configs, what makes anyone think they would want a socketed 35W chip in a mainstream laptop?Trixanity - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
Nominal TDP just means it's what it was designed for. Intel also has SKUs with configurable TDP but generally OEMs stick with the recommended spec. What I'm saying is that AMD is at a disadvantage when competing against 45W Intel chips although they may not intend to do that.rojer_31 - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
On my 4+ year old Lenovo laptop, the TDP for the i5 4200M is 37W. This is not exactly thin and light, but your normal run of the mill laptop.Alexvrb - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
Normal is 15W or so today. Your normal, run of the mill laptop. Consumer and OEMs demand lower power, slimmer form factors, etc.Alexvrb - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
By that logic I could claim the GE chips have a "nominal" TDP of 45-65W. The Zen and Vega cores alike are capable of excellent scaling and they're actually more efficient the lower you go. A 2700U at 25W would be more efficient than GE at 35W.They're at a disadvantage competing against 45W chips used solely in gaming laptops with dGPUs... yes. But being the little guy they need to attack the biggest market segments first. The ideal candidate to go after high-powered gaming laptops would be a lower-TDP dual-CCX Ryzen with no iGPU. But again, it's too low volume for them to think about such a thing at this point in time. Maybe if you're lucky you'll see something after Zen 2.
0ldman79 - Wednesday, April 25, 2018 - link
I've got a 45w Intel i5 6300hq with a GTX 960M.Socketed, I agree, BGA would probably be required to keep the power down, same as it is on mine, but there's plenty of market for 25w or higher. With the aggressive clock control I still get 10 hours on my laptop when working at a tower site and it's under 7lbs. Perfect fit, but of course I'd always like more CPU power.
HStewart - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
This chips look too huge for today's laptop they would have to have a different packagingBut there are crazy people who build huge laptop with desktop chips
Trixanity - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
I don't see why they couldn't be repackaged. In fact I'd expect them too. There's a glaring hole in their notebook chip lineup and these fill it.HStewart - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
I not sure anybody would want it - at 65W this is same as 9805G in my XPS 15 2in1 and the dell has both a more powerful CPU and more powerful GPU (20 cu's vs 11's )So far with my XPS 15 2in1 my biggest concern is GPU compatibility - CPU on it awesome - I can believe a computer half as thin as my Lenovo Y50 can be so fast. Beautiful 4K screen - I had to find workaround in Photoshop for my eyes.
Trixanity - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Yes but at what price? These would be considerably cheaper. I do agree though that the performance/power curve may end up doing a 45W SKU a disservice and could therefore be useless.BurntMyBacon - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
How brew NAS, low end home servers, and/or custom routers might be able to make use of these. Does anyone know if they support ECC. If there are boards that support ECC and/or slim mini-ITX with multiple GBe ports, I'd build with them.Trixanity - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
All Ryzen chips support ECC memory. Problem is most boards do not. Probably because they don't want to validate it.mode_13h - Friday, April 27, 2018 - link
I'm trying to find somewhere on AMD's site where they actually specify ECC support. Got a source?jtd871 - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Ya, could be a sweet low(er)-power DIY transcoding NAS CPU.jtd871 - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Would imagine that you could find "industrial" SKUed motherboards that supports ECC.mode_13h - Friday, April 27, 2018 - link
Most AM4 board makers have at least one SKU with fully-enabled ECC support (not just using ECC RAM as non-ECC). You just have to look at the specs.dgingeri - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
The APUs would not be good for home servers. They only have 8 PCIe lanes, limiting the hardware capability to the exact same as a Ryzen CPU with a video card on a X370/X470 motherboard.MrSpadge - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
What do you think requires "home servers" to have more than 8 PCIe 3 lanes? A regular Ryzen + discrete GPU would cost more than these and consume a bit more power, so even with everything else being equal these would be better.Death666Angel - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
Any source for Ryzen APUs only having 8 PCIe lanes? The old Bristol Ridge APUs had 8 lanes, but the Raven Ridge APUs have 16. Only 8 are supposed to go to the GPU PCIe slot, but they have an additional 4 for NVME storage and 4 for the chipset, which has PCIe 2.0 lanes as well, if I'm not mistaken. So you are making something out of nothing, especially since few home servers should be limited by PCIe connectivity and if they are, the PCIe stuff would likely cost an order of magnitude more than this APU anyway.msroadkill612 - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
Yes. In short, u r in the same postion as w/ a ryzen and an 8 lane dgpu. Its very doable considering graphic is catered for.Afaik, the onboard nvme m.2 port, is just a modified pcie3 x4 slot, & i imagine there are adapters for it, so the apu in reality has 12 spare pcie 3 lanes, plus the chipset's switched; lanes, ports and devices as you say.
latentexistence - Monday, April 30, 2018 - link
AMD's website says "PCI Express Version: PCIe 3.0 x8"We know they're not counting the chipset and M.2 lanes in that but it's still 8 less than the other Ryzen models.
haplo602 - Monday, April 23, 2018 - link
Next news: AMD releases drivers for Ryzen Mobile !!!Death666Angel - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
I wouldn't mind someone bringing out a NUC style Raven Ridge mainboard or at least a mini ITX with a sub 35W APU, maybe just a 15W U one. There were some motherboards by Biostar that used AMDs old APUs like that.msroadkill612 - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
See how cute the apu is?Unusually, their wimpiest 2 apu versions are introduced to the market first, because thats where it's perfect - the huge and juicy, lean running mobile market.
Already we see that same pair, spun into 3x ~discrete segments now.
Not a bad start for their wimp version, and still~40w of tdp wiggle room for the next version(s).
msroadkill612 - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link
A feelgood app for this is for the many folks on the planet getting by ~off grid.With nvram storage, lcdS & this mid point version, it equals a pc with ~laptop power use with desktop; prices, ~performance & a non proprietory adaptable platform.
A serious PC thats doable on solar/wind/12v car battery...
Whatever the size of the segment which prioritises those attributes, its a segment amd own imo. The advantages the apu enjoys from the tight integration of gpu and cpu on versatile am4 are simply overwhelming.
You cant get sensible graphics on any intel cpu w/o adding a gpu card, and you cant get near apu power figures if you add a dgpu.
yhselp - Wednesday, April 25, 2018 - link
How come you keep listing DDR4-2933 support, when AMD's website says 2666?latentexistence - Monday, April 30, 2018 - link
AMD are not consistent about this. The web page for the 2400G says 2667, while the page for the 2400GE says 2933.