I get why they're thinking they can price this at $999 against an iPad Pro. It comes standard, I assume, with the keyboard and pen that you pay extra for when buying an iPad.
To be clear, I think they're being delusionally optimistic. I'm interested in a cellular-less Windows on ARM tablet in the $200-$300 range, maybe. But I have no need for this.
Then again, maybe they think it'll be a big winner in the corporate world. And to be fair, they could absolutely be right; I could definitely see this working pretty well for the C-level set. And if success here inspires them to make cheaper devices, then great.
As for me, I just did a Google search and it looks like no-name Chinese OEMs are making Cherry Trail devices that already fit my needs and price and I'm wondering why I'm even bothering to wait. But hey, maybe this'll finally give me the phablet running full Windows (albeit on ARM) that I want. Full day battery life, >=1080p >=6" screen, <$400, Verizon/AT&T unlocked compatibility...here's hoping.
I would agree that $200-300 (at most) would be only way I would consider one of these machine. Makers should be shamed for trying to selling one of these at full prices taunting higher battery life and unknowing customer purchase and wonder about the performance.
No matter what Microsoft is saying about Windows 10 on ARM, this Windows RT all over again.
Only hope is low-power mobile device with 15+ battery life which supposedly the Dell XPS 15 2in1 is suppose to have - even more if they excluded the GPU - hopefully it can be disable at times
I can tell you exactly how it will perform. Crappier than an AMD or Intel proc. The specs on this thing lines it up with the low end Surface Pro. 128/4 15 vs 128/4/835. Dimensions are nearly identical. With KB and pen the Surface is about 130$ more but for 130$ you get native x86/64 which means you can run everything. The SP has a by far way better display/pen/touch stack on top of the performance. This thing is priced way way too high. At a lower price point it would have faired better against a non pro surface but alas none exists. With discounts and a bit of shopping you can shrink down the 130$ margin a good bit which just makes the envy an even worse deal.
The surface pro does not include neither keyboard nor pen at that price though. If you need those, you need to add over $150 to the bill. But I agree this is too rich for my blood.
"No matter what Microsoft is saying about Windows 10 on ARM, this Windows RT all over again."
Yes and no. Windows 10 S is definitely Windows RT all over again (Intel or ARM). Windows 10 Pro ARM Edition however stands a chance to actually be a decent OS. It just needs a slightly more affordable device. I'm really hoping will see a non-Pro Surface released running it. That's what I want.
The cheap (and lousy) parts of low-end tablets are things like the screen (including the touch tracking), the flash, and the battery. The same is just as true (and just as lousy) for low-end laptops, only replacing bad touch-screen tracking with poor track-pad.
What do you guys want? Do you WANT ONLY shitty-quality products, or are you prepared to pay for reasonable quality? I see the exact same thing every time someone talks about the wonderful world that is cheap Windows laptops, then I go and look at those laptops in Best Buy. Yes, the CPUs are adequate --- but hooked up to, like I said, inadequate hard drives, inadequate batteries, inadequate screens, inadequate trackpads.
I have no idea what HP is selling here, but I strongly suspect that the (somewhat invisible) components I have mentioned all skew to the high end. But if you all refuse to pay 2x for a quality screen, or a quality battery, or quality flash, then you're going to return to the world you have today --- plenty of horrible horrible tablets (Android or Windows) and a whole lot of bitching about "why can't we have tablets that are as nice along every dimension as the iPad Pro?"
We have such a device They're called Surface Pro's. Far better than an IPAD Pro, or this thing. It may be a well built device but it's priced way way too high. Personally for me I wont touch HP
You have a point name99. It very well could be that this device is made with quality parts. I just don't know. It better be for that price. As Manch said, the Surface line is also a premium product, and I would be more willing to spend money on a non-pro Surface running Windows 10 ARM Edition than an HP just because for the most part the Surface line has been good products. Maybe they'll release such a Surface with the Snapdragon 845 later this year... here' hoping...
It's exactly as expected: more thermal headroom -> higher performance. They say this will occur in SD845, as well: PC-targeted SoCs will have higher clocks than mobile-targeted SoCs.
4GB of RAM, 128GB of storage for $999? Even with a i5-U this would be overpriced. Add a totally untested (for Windows) CPU architecture and I can't see this selling. You'd almost think that HP was trying to build a device that wouldn't sell.
Price point and specs are very off. Either they wait for a faster SoC or they drop the price. To try and pretend this is like a high end laptop is not going to do well.
Unfortunately, like Windows 10 S, WOA is a problem looking for a solution, especially if this is the pricing scheme.
Right now at B&H, you can get a 256GB 10.5" iPad Pro, Pencil, and keyboard for under $999. I know they aren't exactly the same, but I also know iOS will be nicely supported by developers today and 2 years from today, unlike anything WOA.
I don't think what I said was inaccurate. You may support the platform, but I think it's safe to say that very few developers do. MS started their own version of the "Appstore" in 2012, and to this day very few of the "popular" apps are available on the platform. I don't think anyone even realistically expects to find their favorite app on Windows 10. MS has tried too many times without any clear commitment, and with no mobile platform, what can they expect? To top it off, MS's take on the Appstore was quite unreliable for me. When I had a Surface 3, I recall the Store simply refusing to install any new apps, for no known reason. It was a problem in the Win 8.x days, too. You had to fix it by uninstalling a random app, or maybe the Store Troubleshooter fixed it. Android and iOS never have these issues. It's just not competitive.
You`re repeating the mantra circa 8.1. Sure, it is in the runner-up position, but then the install base is huge and INCREDIBLY inert, and popular app situation(all 50 of them lol) has improved.
Well, if it uses UEFI with an ability to instal user certificate chains and has no restricitons regarding OS installations, it could be an interesting device.
I'm confused, why add a keyboard to an aging digital picture frame? And is the price for a 10 units pack ? Or maybe it includes 10 years of free data? I suppose hardware +data is cheaper than a car at least.
The SD835 SoC is what, $50? Yet HP wants to charge the same price as a tablet with an i5, a $150 chip! Windows on ARM will die a quick death if HP, Lenovo and Dell want huge margins for these devices.
They should have benchmarked the old Atom-based Surface 3 at $600 for the tablet only. I think $600 for a tablet and keyboard cover would make more sense for the current market.
Why Win 10s? All of them release with Win 10s with a free upgrade to Pro. Why not Win 10 Pro off the bat? Does it affect perf? batt Life? I find this curious. Always on LTE is nice and all but I can accomplish this with my phone/notebook and get still decent batt life. Much better perf though so at this price, I don't see it.
Agreed, I'd like to see some devices ship with Pro as the default. Windows 10 S is a niche, whereas Windows 10 ARM Edition has a chance at being a decent OS. Maybe they're hoping a bunch of people won't upgrade to Pro and just use the store? Tinfoil hat aside, I guess it's easy to go from S to Pro, but not the reverse...
Why the hell did Intel exit the smartphone/tablet soc space I will never know. These 'always connected' tablets could have been a great opportunity for Intel. Thin light tablets with LTE and native X86 socs, with no need for shenanigans to run full windows as is the case for ARM.
Hell, always connected phablets (7 inch plus) with calling facility and full windows could have been a disruptive product. The mythical 'surface phone' never materialized.
As it stands, relatively weaker ARM powered tablets running a crippled version of windows at 1000 USD is not a good value proposition.
If it does, it will be this. 10s on ARM. I bought into WP7/8/10. The last one the 950XL performed horribly and had a shittier camera than my awesome 1020 which the WP10 upgrade broke. If it hadn't I would have kept using that phone. MS has burned me when it comes to their phones. Even a surface phone I wouldn't touch and I'm a huge fan of the surface pro's and book.
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shabby - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
This might sell well for $499 with its weak hardware and limited software, but good luck hp.speculatrix - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
maybe $600 at most.Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
I get why they're thinking they can price this at $999 against an iPad Pro. It comes standard, I assume, with the keyboard and pen that you pay extra for when buying an iPad.To be clear, I think they're being delusionally optimistic. I'm interested in a cellular-less Windows on ARM tablet in the $200-$300 range, maybe. But I have no need for this.
Then again, maybe they think it'll be a big winner in the corporate world. And to be fair, they could absolutely be right; I could definitely see this working pretty well for the C-level set. And if success here inspires them to make cheaper devices, then great.
As for me, I just did a Google search and it looks like no-name Chinese OEMs are making Cherry Trail devices that already fit my needs and price and I'm wondering why I'm even bothering to wait. But hey, maybe this'll finally give me the phablet running full Windows (albeit on ARM) that I want. Full day battery life, >=1080p >=6" screen, <$400, Verizon/AT&T unlocked compatibility...here's hoping.
HStewart - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
I would agree that $200-300 (at most) would be only way I would consider one of these machine. Makers should be shamed for trying to selling one of these at full prices taunting higher battery life and unknowing customer purchase and wonder about the performance.No matter what Microsoft is saying about Windows 10 on ARM, this Windows RT all over again.
Only hope is low-power mobile device with 15+ battery life which supposedly the Dell XPS 15 2in1 is suppose to have - even more if they excluded the GPU - hopefully it can be disable at times
Fritzkier - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
I don't even...Are you guys delusional?
SD835 smartphone doesn't even exist at $300...
Let alone a first gen ARM laptop...
Though, as for me, I'll wait until reviewer review this devices. We don't know how Windows for ARM perform, yet.
Fritzkier - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
*Windows on ARMAnd I think, if only they optimized it on Mid range SOCs (like SD625, 650, etc) it would be a very good deal.
Manch - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
I can tell you exactly how it will perform. Crappier than an AMD or Intel proc. The specs on this thing lines it up with the low end Surface Pro. 128/4 15 vs 128/4/835. Dimensions are nearly identical. With KB and pen the Surface is about 130$ more but for 130$ you get native x86/64 which means you can run everything. The SP has a by far way better display/pen/touch stack on top of the performance. This thing is priced way way too high. At a lower price point it would have faired better against a non pro surface but alas none exists. With discounts and a bit of shopping you can shrink down the 130$ margin a good bit which just makes the envy an even worse deal.frenchy_2001 - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
The surface pro does not include neither keyboard nor pen at that price though.If you need those, you need to add over $150 to the bill.
But I agree this is too rich for my blood.
Manch - Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - link
I addressed that in my post. "With KB and pen the Surface is about 130$ more but for 130$ you get native x86/64 which means you can run everything"domboy - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
"No matter what Microsoft is saying about Windows 10 on ARM, this Windows RT all over again."Yes and no. Windows 10 S is definitely Windows RT all over again (Intel or ARM). Windows 10 Pro ARM Edition however stands a chance to actually be a decent OS. It just needs a slightly more affordable device. I'm really hoping will see a non-Pro Surface released running it. That's what I want.
Manch - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
Wouldn't a surface pro with m series chip work? They're priced decently. Especially compared to this.name99 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
The cheap (and lousy) parts of low-end tablets are things like the screen (including the touch tracking), the flash, and the battery.The same is just as true (and just as lousy) for low-end laptops, only replacing bad touch-screen tracking with poor track-pad.
What do you guys want? Do you WANT ONLY shitty-quality products, or are you prepared to pay for reasonable quality? I see the exact same thing every time someone talks about the wonderful world that is cheap Windows laptops, then I go and look at those laptops in Best Buy. Yes, the CPUs are adequate --- but hooked up to, like I said, inadequate hard drives, inadequate batteries, inadequate screens, inadequate trackpads.
I have no idea what HP is selling here, but I strongly suspect that the (somewhat invisible) components I have mentioned all skew to the high end.
But if you all refuse to pay 2x for a quality screen, or a quality battery, or quality flash, then you're going to return to the world you have today --- plenty of horrible horrible tablets (Android or Windows) and a whole lot of bitching about "why can't we have tablets that are as nice along every dimension as the iPad Pro?"
Manch - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
We have such a device They're called Surface Pro's. Far better than an IPAD Pro, or this thing. It may be a well built device but it's priced way way too high. Personally for me I wont touch HPdomboy - Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - link
You have a point name99. It very well could be that this device is made with quality parts. I just don't know. It better be for that price. As Manch said, the Surface line is also a premium product, and I would be more willing to spend money on a non-pro Surface running Windows 10 ARM Edition than an HP just because for the most part the Surface line has been good products. Maybe they'll release such a Surface with the Snapdragon 845 later this year... here' hoping...t.s - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
$999? Really??"To much self-confidence will kill you."
seamonkey79 - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
Lo wait for it lThat's about twice as much as it's worth
ikjadoon - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
>So either this is a faster Snapdragon S835 binIt is a different bin with a different part number, internally called MSM8998PC. These 2.6GHz clock speeds were confirmed back in December, actually:
https://youtu.be/xWP__0W5PU4?t=1953
It's exactly as expected: more thermal headroom -> higher performance. They say this will occur in SD845, as well: PC-targeted SoCs will have higher clocks than mobile-targeted SoCs.
ikjadoon - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
The YouTube link: the quote from Don McGuire, VP of Global Product Marketing at Qualcomm from the Hawaii launch in December 2017.Flunk - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
4GB of RAM, 128GB of storage for $999? Even with a i5-U this would be overpriced. Add a totally untested (for Windows) CPU architecture and I can't see this selling. You'd almost think that HP was trying to build a device that wouldn't sell.Cliff34 - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
Price point and specs are very off. Either they wait for a faster SoC or they drop the price. To try and pretend this is like a high end laptop is not going to do well.Gunbuster - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
Wait did they even release benchmarks for 10 on arm yet? And now they expect people to preorder hardware?Makaveli - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
Nothing else to add most of the comments cover all the issues with this.MonkeyPaw - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
Unfortunately, like Windows 10 S, WOA is a problem looking for a solution, especially if this is the pricing scheme.Right now at B&H, you can get a 256GB 10.5" iPad Pro, Pencil, and keyboard for under $999. I know they aren't exactly the same, but I also know iOS will be nicely supported by developers today and 2 years from today, unlike anything WOA.
Hurr Durr - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
Cool it with sweeping generalizations. I have an application from the 8.1 days which is still actively developed, both on phone and on a box.vanilla_gorilla - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
When it applies to about 99% of cases it's ok to make a generalization.Hurr Durr - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
Time for ur mum joke I feel.MonkeyPaw - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
I don't think what I said was inaccurate. You may support the platform, but I think it's safe to say that very few developers do. MS started their own version of the "Appstore" in 2012, and to this day very few of the "popular" apps are available on the platform. I don't think anyone even realistically expects to find their favorite app on Windows 10. MS has tried too many times without any clear commitment, and with no mobile platform, what can they expect? To top it off, MS's take on the Appstore was quite unreliable for me. When I had a Surface 3, I recall the Store simply refusing to install any new apps, for no known reason. It was a problem in the Win 8.x days, too. You had to fix it by uninstalling a random app, or maybe the Store Troubleshooter fixed it. Android and iOS never have these issues. It's just not competitive.Hurr Durr - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
You`re repeating the mantra circa 8.1. Sure, it is in the runner-up position, but then the install base is huge and INCREDIBLY inert, and popular app situation(all 50 of them lol) has improved.eSyr - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
Well, if it uses UEFI with an ability to instal user certificate chains and has no restricitons regarding OS installations, it could be an interesting device.Sttm - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
$1000 and it has last years Phone SoC... ARE THEY F@#$%ing HIGH?Hurr Durr - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
It`s you who is high.Qualcomm literally never supplied a CPU for Apple.
speculatrix - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
I think you jumped to a conclusion, it didn't say last years iphone SoCHurr Durr - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
God damn capital letters.Sttm - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
It has the same SoC as the phone I've had since last March, which I will likely replace in a few weeks. And they want $1000 for it.web2dot0 - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
detaching laptops is like asking for missing components. You will bound to forget the reattach it and lose part of your laptop.jjj - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
I'm confused, why add a keyboard to an aging digital picture frame? And is the price for a 10 units pack ? Or maybe it includes 10 years of free data?I suppose hardware +data is cheaper than a car at least.
YoloPascual - Saturday, February 24, 2018 - link
You never went full apple. Just dont.serendip - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
The SD835 SoC is what, $50? Yet HP wants to charge the same price as a tablet with an i5, a $150 chip! Windows on ARM will die a quick death if HP, Lenovo and Dell want huge margins for these devices.They should have benchmarked the old Atom-based Surface 3 at $600 for the tablet only. I think $600 for a tablet and keyboard cover would make more sense for the current market.
Manch - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
Why Win 10s? All of them release with Win 10s with a free upgrade to Pro. Why not Win 10 Pro off the bat? Does it affect perf? batt Life? I find this curious. Always on LTE is nice and all but I can accomplish this with my phone/notebook and get still decent batt life. Much better perf though so at this price, I don't see it.domboy - Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - link
Agreed, I'd like to see some devices ship with Pro as the default. Windows 10 S is a niche, whereas Windows 10 ARM Edition has a chance at being a decent OS. Maybe they're hoping a bunch of people won't upgrade to Pro and just use the store? Tinfoil hat aside, I guess it's easy to go from S to Pro, but not the reverse...LiverpoolFC5903 - Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - link
Why the hell did Intel exit the smartphone/tablet soc space I will never know. These 'always connected' tablets could have been a great opportunity for Intel. Thin light tablets with LTE and native X86 socs, with no need for shenanigans to run full windows as is the case for ARM.Hell, always connected phablets (7 inch plus) with calling facility and full windows could have been a disruptive product. The mythical 'surface phone' never materialized.
As it stands, relatively weaker ARM powered tablets running a crippled version of windows at 1000 USD is not a good value proposition.
Manch - Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - link
If it does, it will be this. 10s on ARM. I bought into WP7/8/10. The last one the 950XL performed horribly and had a shittier camera than my awesome 1020 which the WP10 upgrade broke. If it hadn't I would have kept using that phone. MS has burned me when it comes to their phones. Even a surface phone I wouldn't touch and I'm a huge fan of the surface pro's and book.