"We’ll try to get our hands on a sample as soon as possible after the event tonight and run more benchmarks on the Exynos devices and update this article, so stay tuned for a couple more hours!" Come on, I don't believe you don't have MT results also...
I wouldn't sigh in relief until leaks about the S10 - with it's presumed because it's an even number redesign - start showing up in about 10 more months.
do you really compare an outdated design with plenty of bezels compared to sleek refined and well acclaimed design. again no problem with the same design if it looks good and relevant, and the iphone's design is not.
So I got a Huawei Mate 9 and my wife got a Galaxy S8. Why should we upgrade to a new phone not just now but also within the next two or three of years? The smartphones have got so boring. Every year we see more of the same, and very little innovation.
Sorry I don't recall this but when you measure GPU power consumption, do you look at just GPU or total SoC? I suppose memory bandwidth would be a factor too. No idea why you assume 2.6GHz, is there any basis for that?
As for the device, any upper and lower bezels are a bad thing today as Apple creates the illusion of no bezels, just a notch so the path for all others is to eliminate the notch and Samsung has not done that. No in-display fingerprint, just 4GB DRAM for the S9 base model, the S0+ display is too small to be called big. DEX dock should be wireless and while on wireless, RF wireless charging would be nice. On the SoC side, even SD845 offers large gains but it doesn't really matter. Actually, any chance you can bring back some kind of real world loading times metrics, at least for web pages and the Exynos as it would be interesting to see how relevant the progress is.
If they make a Dual Sim Dual Active variant of this device for the US with either a MicroSD or 256GB storage available, this could be a good phone for me...
Looks like if I upgrade from my s8 I will have to buy the exynos version unlocked, better single core score, 6x CA (SD only has 5x). Audio has long been better on exynos also. Something to consider for the note 9 also (which is when I will likely upgrade). Hopefully samsung offers a good trade in program again this year.
While this is of course speculation, I believe you're mistaken in the explanation of why they went for a very wide and variable aperture for the main camera. If I were to make a bet, I'd bet on the reason being to avoid the aberrations and image quality issues that f/1.5 would introduce to any camera sensor, even with extremely high quality glass. The lower your aperture, the more issues you introduce, and the better glass you need. f/1.5 with a phone-size sensor is probably beyond what is feasible to compensate for with better glass (especially in a mass-produced camera, but grinding lenses that small is not easy). As such, the smaller aperture would be there to improve image quality in well-lit situations, while the larger one would be there to get more light when needed (in situations where noise is probably the main cause of image quality deterioration anyway).
As for the depth of field argument, that doesn't make much sense in light of DoF being dependent on sensor size as well as aperture - smaller sensor sizes naturally have higher DoF at any given aperture. See for example https://dofsimulator.net/en/ for a demonstration. While f/1.5 would still of course have a shorter DoF than f/2.4, neither are particularly shallow in normal photographic terms. According to the linked calculator, f/1.5 on a 1/2.5" sensor with a 29mm equivalent lens while focused on a subject 3m away (which I'd say is a very standard setup, and roughly matches the specs of the S8 at least) gives a DoF of 18.2m (1.6-19.8m), while f/2.4 gives effectively infinity (1.2m-infinity) under the same conditions. The simulator even gives equivalent apertures compared to full-frame sensors, where f/1.5 translates to f/8.4 (which is a very reasonable aperture for DoF in normal conditions) and f/2.4 translates to f/14.9. It's also important to underscore that this applies to DoF, not aberrations - there, the actual f-number is the defining factor (i.e. aperture size relative to focal length). Which underscores my argument that image quality, not DoF is likely the main reason for the variable aperture.
Your argument makes a lot of sense. They moved to wider apertures to improve image quality in low light, but in situations with sufficient lighting, the F/2.4 would be preferable as you say.
I think the 8895 already supported CDMA, but the 9810 integrated modem for sure supports CDMA. I am just waiting to see the import market for unlocked phones pick up once head to head results are in on the two variants
We have RAM in camera sensor, better pixels and some shutter blades too (test needed) and dual cameras. Also they say a brighter display... have not said how much (test needed). Btw iPhone X definitely doesn’t have magically efficient material to drive that crazy 625 nit full white. It kills battery like crazy - samsung matching it now ? Then stereo speakers... like 1,4 x louder ? A db more than that terrible rattler in S8 ? (Test needed). Honestly expected at least 2x with twice the speakers. Improweish hearth rate sensor ?
Same display material as S7 ? Same battery as S8 ? How much better battery life ? Front camera ? Vibration motor ? Brighter flash ? Higher.... price ?!?
Oh and a new SoC. Super exciting single core perf, but I can’t help but aggain call for real world test.
Btw where you got those “standard single core power thread platf...” whatewer numbers ? 3W feels way overshot on A11 a bit less on A10 yet still too much if we consider twister was quite resistant to throttling.
A10 and A12 are physically larger chips that for a short while, until they throttle, draw more power than the competition. The numbers make sense. In fact, the iphone 6,6s and 7 had to be permanently throttled as the batteries couldn't supply the needed power.
The only use case that makes this kind of mobile CPU power worth having is desktop replacement. And that has been a rather sad story during the last couple of years.
I bought a docking station for my Note 3, only two find that it was USB 2 only (the Note 3 connector was physically USB 3) and wouldn’t really work with USB Ethernet. Custom ROMs fixed that, they fixed many other things wrong with the Note 3 software, but they lost me HDMI on the docking station, because that driver was “proprietary”.
DEX sounds great, pretty much like Jide’s RemixOS. In fact I keep thinking that Jide may even be behind DEX. Except that as a Samsung exclusive and without the type of freedom and support only a custom ROM can give you, shelling out the equivalent of a full luxury notebook for a device that will be out of support before everything even fully works, is in all likelihood just repeating a stupid mistake I have already made twice: With the Note 1 und the Note 3.
And those had batteries that could be swapped and a plastic chassis that would bend when dropped and just pop open when the battery died and expanded: These days a dying batterie will take case and display with it when it pops. In fact some of these phone bodies are so strong, an expanding battery can only expand through the display.
One of my sons had a phone built like a tank. When that battery died, it couldn't expand, because the phone was too rigid on all sides. So the battery safety seal, typically designed to contain all those gases and triple volume without breaking, had no choice but to expand inside through tiny seams, breaking the battery seal, crushing and wrecking chemical and thermal havoc on the main board, SIM and SDcard. Nothing could be recovered and just sending it in for repairs was a logistics nighmare similar to the Galaxy Note 7.
Edge display: Design over reason. I’ll never buy or sponsor a phone that cannot be properly protected by a silicon case that fully protects a phone falling on any ordinary flat surface. That includes a wrap-around for the front sufficiently thick to extend beyond the extra glass screen, which is another minimal addition to open my purse. Some edge on all sides of the display is obviously required, so that the silicon overlap can run out in front.
A fingerprint reader on the back is silly when you want to operate the phone magnetically mounted in your car (via metal plate behind the silicon cover) for the “no fumble” dock and undock. One of these days somebody will be killed by a driver that bent to have his face recognized by his phone: I just hope he drives off a cliff before he hits me.
Obviously, I don’t care the least about the body material, color or how any other surface than the screen looks, because I’ll never see or touch it underneath the protective cover. I just hope it absorbs shock, stress and bending sufficiently well to never be noticed (negatively). For all I care they could be “naked” underneath but plastic is totally fine. Annoyingly it’s really hard to get anything but glass and metal even with entry level hardware these days.
There may be people who get pre-orgasmic from a phone’s design. I want to buy a tool that is as useful as it can be. That includes eliminating the need for an extra PC. With the CPU power, RAM and storage available in the phone form factor these days, that is entirely within reach and no longer even requires compromising on computing power.
Samsung has all the ingredients. They could save a lot of money on design, the camera, advertising, full-metal-bodies and other things I do not care the least about, include 8GB of RAM, add USB 3 type speed on a connector that can never bend or suffer physical damage from which docking/undocking and a battery that can be swapped easily.
I’d be ready to buy that at half the price they are currently charging, if they either guaranteed 4 full years of monthly patch support or simply full source code for Custom ROMs.
What they currently offer instead has so little value I cannot imagine anyone falling for it, except those unfortunate or malicious enough to drop their previous phone on the edge.
I don't have experience with everything yu pointed out, but I will respond to a few:
Battery expansion: I had that happen with my Xperia Z2 glass sandwich. I didn't have quite as bad a time as you though: the battery just popped the back glass panel up a little bit as it expanded (and broke the waterproofing while at it).
One walk into the shop I bought it at, one form filled, and about a week later my replacement phone was ready for pickup. Similar story was water ingress on my Xperia Z from failed glue around the camera (it was covered in oily fingerprints, so I did the usual technique of washing it under the tap). Similar walk-in and form filling and I had a brand new unit bout a week later.
Fingerprint reader on the back is fine for many people when driving: unlock the phone before you put it into the car holder (I have to do it anyways to launch AAuto). Talking of AAuto, it's the only thing I have running on my phonewhen I'm driving, specifically because it locks out almost everything interactive, and what little is interactive is as simple as it can be.
If you want it even more automated, you can setup smart unlock to auto unlock your phone near applicable BT devices (like your smartwatch or car radio) and wifi networks, but I'm not the biggest fan of that much automation.
Edge display: they're tougher than they look. a LOT tougher. I've had glass sandwich phones since the Xperia Z (Z, Z1 and Z2), and 3D glass in aluminium/plastic bodies for the rest (HTC One X, HTC 10, OnePlus 5). So far I have yet to damage a single screen or back panel, despite me dropping my phone a LOT (somewhere around once a week minimum). Said drops are typically from chest height or higher, onto concrete, wood, asphalt, marble, ceramic, steel.
Oh, and I have never used a case on any of my phones ever, so the phones' sides and back get all sorts of scratches, marks, gouges, while the screen is fine thanks to having harder glass (my Xperia Z could be used as a really shitty saw after a year of my abuse, for example...). Still amazed I somehow haven't dropped any of my phones into a drain though...
Talking of cases, I refuse to go back to plastic bodies for my primary phone. If you recase your phone, then plastic, or even just the bare frame is fine. For people like me who have their phone completely naked to the elements (because we have faith it'll survive being dropped repeatedly), plastic just feels like crap after half a decade of anodized aluminium or glass. Even the really nice polycarbonate stuff Nokia and HTC used feels a bit slimy and cheap in comparison (I have an N9 I toy around with, and a Lumia 950XL in the mail).
Oh, and not all of us have purses. For example: I use my right pants pocket as the dedicated phone pocket. This affects how thick people can accept their phone being. Me? I have no problem with a 15-17mm thick phone. Hell, I'd probably accept 20 maybe even 25mm thick (based on how often I've lugged 2-3 phones in that single pocket), but most other people do care, and it seems that 10mm is the max they'll accept in their pocket, so here we are.
For the value question, that's mostly up to you. A lot of people (myself included) don't really mind paying 700-1200 on our phones, given it's a device we use every day, everywhere, and a lot of us DO care about things like design and camera (advertising is cancer can do die in a toxic sewer on fire though), and we pay up for it.
The real problem with value from the tier 1s like Samsung is that smaller vendors like Oneplus and Razer exist at a good $400 lower MSRP for almost the same overall performance, if not occasionally better. The Exynos S9 looks like it might hold that performance top spot for 2018 though, which is a nice return to form from Samsung LSI.
If you care about RAM capacity and performance, you should look at the tier 2 vendors like Oneplus and Razer: those guys been shipping 6GB in 2016, and 8GB in 2017 in volume. Realistically, you can't ship much more because that's as big as LPDDR gets right now. Expect to see more 8GB phones this year, with a couple of 10GB and maybe even 12GB nutters sprinkled around.
Finally, removable batteries: the market has spoken loudly and removable batteries are truly gone and never coming back outside of a few very special niches, which sadly charge iphone prices for underpowered pieces of crap. Seriously, just look at the Cat S61 for example. It's an overall rbillinant $999 phone.. that's completely let down by shipping a miserly Snapdragon 630, 4GB of RAM and a piddly 1080p screen. Sell it for 1299 with an S845 or S835, 8GB of RAM and a 1440p screen and I'd happily buy it. Hell, I'd buy it with just a 1080p OLED screen.
"purse" was meant in the original sense of money bag: As a male in my fifties I'd feel a bit awkward carrying a woman's purse :-)
I currently own a Oneplus 5 with 8GB of RAM and 128 GB of storage. It's an acceptable price point and runs custom ROMs.
I have tried using it as a desktop replacement via a DisplayLink adapter and the Sentio desktop suite.
It's almost usable in terms of display speed, even if it's only running across USB 2. At the moment I am missing charging support and Ethernet via USB (for security reasons). The Sentio software also isn't anywhere near as good as RemixOS was, but that is also not really, really good either.
Changeable batteries: I doubt it was the consumers that spoke: Vendors eliminated choice to reduce their risk exposure to fake batteries.
I am glad you never managed to break your phone. So far I didn't either. But my kids did, several times and often enough just after spending their entire savings on this fantastic new phone they had been dreaming of. The heartache was terrible, especially since one actually had a flip cover (he actually accelerated the drop by trying to catch it and it struck the screen), the other couldn't find a matching case to buy and it broke on its first fall within a week.
I completely agree, but most people in this forum here have not lived enough for having this life experience. Samsung's edge is a gimmick, that doesn't allow good protection of the screen. I am personally done with Samsung after dozens of family phones over the years - I particularly don't like their mediocre software attempts, and will never buy sth with "Bixby". It's sad that Google's Pixel 2 is so expensive, that would be kinda OK Android phone. Next buy will probably be iPhone 7 - waterproof, and camera is OK, software works. I don't care about the rest, but I do care about the price, and in times when top Androids are running around a grand, iPhone be it. especially if Apple pulls sth like SE with the 7 body and 8 internals on the cheap. Then will outfit the entire family with iPhones and be done.
Just wanna point out a slight mistake in this article.
"The second feature enhanced by the new sensor (as well as the SoC imaging pipelines) is the multi-frame noise reduction. Google’s Pixel’s devices and HDR+ algorithm were the first to use a software implementation of this feature."
This is not true. Multi-frame noise reduction has existing in phones for a long time, especially in Samsung phones.
I suppose this is different: those old devices would take several pictures, each processed by the sensor logic and sent to the SOC, then combined into one. This does the same but without the transfer, storing in memory and then processing on the sensor logic. So it can take the pictures faster, much closer together, resulting in less blurry moving objects or blur from shaking or, even better, relatively longer exposure under low light.
I agree, the current technology/methodology behind multi frame noise reduction between all these phones might be different whether it is done in SoC or ISP. Samsung claims that its new DRAM chip on the Galaxy S9/+ sensors enables it to stack up to 12 frames.
However, the technique is still the same, basically improving SNR via multi image stacking/ image averaging / multi... however you call it.
Yup, that I simply don't "get". I'd buy a 9810-based S9 to potentially replace my Pixel XL (version 1) the day that I could buy one in Canada ... but it doesn't seem like that will be the case, and I'm certainly not paying out the nose for a phone that has been intentionally hobbled for some baffling reason. And given how long it's taken Samsung to roll out Oreo for the S8 I might just have to stick with the Pixel XL until it dies.
So you're gonna pass up on a Samsung with an 845 instead of their own SoC to buy... another phone with an 845? Or an iPhone, but I doubt the processor is the deciding factor in that case.
I think consumer backlash will be exceptional for this generation if the 9810 performs as claimed. AFAIK the region lock is entirely due to licensing negotiations with qualcomm locking the 845 for the NA/Japan/China market. It's unclear what the tipping point would be for Samsung S.LSI to renegotiate their wafer/license agreements due to consumer feedback/sales.
Speculation is a poorly thought out contract agreement with Qualcomm from way back when the Exynos was just a glimmer in Samsung's eye. You have to understand that Samsung's different departments act almost entirely independently of each other. So for example their NAND fab will happily send the first batch of newer, faster, lower-power NAND to Apple instead of Samsung's electronics (phone) department if Apple is willing to pay more. Samsung Electronics probably inked an agreement with Qualcomm with little to no consideration for Samsung Semiconductors.
I believe it's simply a matter of the Exynos Modem not supporting CMDA. Evidently Qualcomm's patents on this technology make it financially unattractive to include in SoCs that will be sold in non-CMDA territories while on Qualcomm SoCs it comes at a relative bargain. I believe that's also the reason behind the war that Apple is waging against Qualcomm.
"If the Galaxy S9 ends up a good upgrade over the Galaxy S8 is a question that might have different answers depending on which market you’re located in. The Exynos variant promises some monumental performance increases on the side of the CPU that will likely not happen any time soon again."
So wait, qualcomm's snapdragon and Samsung's exynos have completely different performance on the same phone?? What motivation is there for us North American users to buy one then?
I wouldn't judge so quickly. There are still the questions of: multithreaded performance, sustained performance, battery life, GPU performance, drivers, etc. Hard to judge a system on single thread CPU performance alone
Really disappointed the US doesn't get the 256GB option... I won't be able to use the MicroSD slot becuase I require two nano-SIM slots. This flagship phone is out for me. (FWIW, my current 950XL has 160GB of storage - 32GB internal and 128GB microSD.... and still able to use both nano-SIM slots... this is one thing Microsoft got right!!)
What is it that prevents US people from ordering the European version from some overseas retailer? I have 128GB on my current phone, more than half filled. My next phone will have 256.
I guess lots of people prefer to get their phone from the telco and pay through the contract. Also Samsung in the US don't honor warranty on some phones from overseas.
That's why the low availability and huge price increase of DDR4 and NAND,because these @&$!!es want to seel us new smarphones every 9 months. Well I for one got an older S7 and I'm going to hang on to it FOR YEARS. If I ever buy a Galaxy S9 it will be 10 years from now.
If I buy the UK version with the Exynos 9810, does anyone know for sure the phone supports CDMA networks like Verizon now for sure? Has it been 100% confirmed yet?
Another attempt to copy and not set any trend but copy away and market as original. When I see Sams**t phones it makes my stomach turn. Like seeing a cheap Hyundai Genesis etc. From stealing Apples lock screen interface, then Sony's water IP ratings, to Apple dual camera, to countless gimmicks down to exploding phones and arrest of the heir and board president for condoning this currypted activity. Samsung is a joke brand stands for imitation. Why the F) $@ doesn't Apple Sony or even Black Berry lol Run some Steve Jobs like commercials and campaign against Samshit and expose them! Apple ran billions in marketing vicious ads to dethrone MS. 'I'm Mac im a PC'? Sega was bad ass also in its hay day. Now It's all about geeky garbage adds and hip hop coolness factor and market flooding with s**t . Steve Jobs would not stand for this Bulls**t. Sony once admired by the great is now full of skirt wearing bean counters. Although they did have to battle MS also in the video game arena and won, and lost tons of cash. Sony needs to stand the f#& up represent.
"Preliminary GeekBench4 scores show astounding performance improvements on the side of the Exynos 9810 showing 78% improvements in integer workloads and 119% in the floating point tests"
"especially when considering the maximum aperture of f/1.5 which allows for an incredibly shallow depth of field"
On full-frame (36mmx24mm) sensors, not on the tiny smartphone sensors. f/1.5 on the sensors is something like f/10 on full-frame - not a shallow DoF at all.
While it's easy to see the benchmarks on the Exynos model and be disappointed about the 845 in the US it doesn't tell the full story. The Adreno GPU in the Snapdragon model has better graphics driver support and overall better performance than the Mali GPU in the Exynos model. If you're doing something that's very intensive on both the CPU and GPU like emulation (say, GCN/Wii emulation via Dolphin) you'll get better performance out of the Snapdragon due to the better GPU support. Both will be fast for day-to-day usage so you're really only getting a lot out of the Exynos if you do very CPU-heavy but GPU-light tasks. I'm not sure what those would be on a phone.
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Wardrive86 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
What would the max flops/clock per core be for M3? It has 3 complex NEON pipes, does ARMv8 allow for a 3 wide FMA?yeeeeman - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
"We’ll try to get our hands on a sample as soon as possible after the event tonight and run more benchmarks on the Exynos devices and update this article, so stay tuned for a couple more hours!"Come on, I don't believe you don't have MT results also...
austinsguitar - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
2 words headphone jack :DD samsung has huge balls <3Cliff34 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
I'm glad they didn't follow Apple.DanNeely - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
... yet.I wouldn't sigh in relief until leaks about the S10 - with it's presumed because it's an even number redesign - start showing up in about 10 more months.
FullmetalTitan - Thursday, March 1, 2018 - link
I wager S10 leaks start by mid-summer, albeit probably just new Exynos bench numbersarvindgr - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
I knew SD845 supports Dual VoLTE on dual SIM models. Does Exynos support dual VoLTE??name99 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
"Both devices bring iterative designs over the Galaxy S8 – which is not a bad thing."Try telling that to the people who insist that Apple is DOOOMED because the 6, 6S, 7, 8 all looked the same...
lilmoe - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
No one was complaining when Apple used the same design 2 years in a row, but 4 years in a row is pushing it.Eliadbu - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
do you really compare an outdated design with plenty of bezels compared to sleek refinedand well acclaimed design. again no problem with the same design if it looks good and relevant, and the iphone's design is not.
GC2:CS - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
How it was outaded ? Wasn’t it updated ?What it lacks in today world besides a higher screen to body ratio ?
Glock24 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
So will joe be the new holder of the most breakable phone award? Glass back, glass front, smaller bezel. It seems so.Glock24 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
*this not joe. Damn keyboard autocorrect.UtilityMax - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
So I got a Huawei Mate 9 and my wife got a Galaxy S8. Why should we upgrade to a new phone not just now but also within the next two or three of years? The smartphones have got so boring. Every year we see more of the same, and very little innovation.abrowne1993 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
It's almost like they didn't make this phone to get you and your wife to upgradeFullmetalTitan - Thursday, March 1, 2018 - link
I mean yeah, aside from industry first camera tech and a processor DOUBLE the performance of the chip in the S8, nothing innovative...jjj - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
Sorry I don't recall this but when you measure GPU power consumption, do you look at just GPU or total SoC? I suppose memory bandwidth would be a factor too.No idea why you assume 2.6GHz, is there any basis for that?
As for the device, any upper and lower bezels are a bad thing today as Apple creates the illusion of no bezels, just a notch so the path for all others is to eliminate the notch and Samsung has not done that.
No in-display fingerprint, just 4GB DRAM for the S9 base model, the S0+ display is too small to be called big. DEX dock should be wireless and while on wireless, RF wireless charging would be nice.
On the SoC side, even SD845 offers large gains but it doesn't really matter. Actually, any chance you can bring back some kind of real world loading times metrics, at least for web pages and the Exynos as it would be interesting to see how relevant the progress is.
HardwareDufus - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
If they make a Dual Sim Dual Active variant of this device for the US with either a MicroSD or 256GB storage available, this could be a good phone for me...anactoraaron - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
Looks like if I upgrade from my s8 I will have to buy the exynos version unlocked, better single core score, 6x CA (SD only has 5x). Audio has long been better on exynos also. Something to consider for the note 9 also (which is when I will likely upgrade). Hopefully samsung offers a good trade in program again this year.Valantar - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
While this is of course speculation, I believe you're mistaken in the explanation of why they went for a very wide and variable aperture for the main camera. If I were to make a bet, I'd bet on the reason being to avoid the aberrations and image quality issues that f/1.5 would introduce to any camera sensor, even with extremely high quality glass. The lower your aperture, the more issues you introduce, and the better glass you need. f/1.5 with a phone-size sensor is probably beyond what is feasible to compensate for with better glass (especially in a mass-produced camera, but grinding lenses that small is not easy). As such, the smaller aperture would be there to improve image quality in well-lit situations, while the larger one would be there to get more light when needed (in situations where noise is probably the main cause of image quality deterioration anyway).As for the depth of field argument, that doesn't make much sense in light of DoF being dependent on sensor size as well as aperture - smaller sensor sizes naturally have higher DoF at any given aperture. See for example https://dofsimulator.net/en/ for a demonstration. While f/1.5 would still of course have a shorter DoF than f/2.4, neither are particularly shallow in normal photographic terms. According to the linked calculator, f/1.5 on a 1/2.5" sensor with a 29mm equivalent lens while focused on a subject 3m away (which I'd say is a very standard setup, and roughly matches the specs of the S8 at least) gives a DoF of 18.2m (1.6-19.8m), while f/2.4 gives effectively infinity (1.2m-infinity) under the same conditions. The simulator even gives equivalent apertures compared to full-frame sensors, where f/1.5 translates to f/8.4 (which is a very reasonable aperture for DoF in normal conditions) and f/2.4 translates to f/14.9. It's also important to underscore that this applies to DoF, not aberrations - there, the actual f-number is the defining factor (i.e. aperture size relative to focal length). Which underscores my argument that image quality, not DoF is likely the main reason for the variable aperture.
3DoubleD - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
Your argument makes a lot of sense. They moved to wider apertures to improve image quality in low light, but in situations with sufficient lighting, the F/2.4 would be preferable as you say.Dr. Swag - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
Does the modem in the exynos have cdma support?FullmetalTitan - Thursday, March 1, 2018 - link
I think the 8895 already supported CDMA, but the 9810 integrated modem for sure supports CDMA. I am just waiting to see the import market for unlocked phones pick up once head to head results are in on the two variantsjjj - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
Found this listed by an online store for the Exynos version - 4 x 2.7 GHz & 4 x 1.7 GHz.Trying to verify by checking other stores.
krumme - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
For video Is the hevc with a wider color palette? Can we get some hdr?How about quality of the video stabilization at 4k/60Hz?
GC2:CS - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
We have RAM in camera sensor, better pixels and some shutter blades too (test needed) and dual cameras.Also they say a brighter display... have not said how much (test needed).
Btw iPhone X definitely doesn’t have magically efficient material to drive that crazy 625 nit full white. It kills battery like crazy - samsung matching it now ?
Then stereo speakers... like 1,4 x louder ? A db more than that terrible rattler in S8 ? (Test needed). Honestly expected at least 2x with twice the speakers.
Improweish hearth rate sensor ?
Same display material as S7 ?
Same battery as S8 ?
How much better battery life ?
Front camera ?
Vibration motor ?
Brighter flash ?
Higher.... price ?!?
Oh and a new SoC. Super exciting single core perf, but I can’t help but aggain call for real world test.
Btw where you got those “standard single core power thread platf...” whatewer numbers ? 3W feels way overshot on A11 a bit less on A10 yet still too much if we consider twister was quite resistant to throttling.
id4andrei - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
A10 and A12 are physically larger chips that for a short while, until they throttle, draw more power than the competition. The numbers make sense. In fact, the iphone 6,6s and 7 had to be permanently throttled as the batteries couldn't supply the needed power.abufrejoval - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
The only use case that makes this kind of mobile CPU power worth having is desktop replacement. And that has been a rather sad story during the last couple of years.I bought a docking station for my Note 3, only two find that it was USB 2 only (the Note 3 connector was physically USB 3) and wouldn’t really work with USB Ethernet. Custom ROMs fixed that, they fixed many other things wrong with the Note 3 software, but they lost me HDMI on the docking station, because that driver was “proprietary”.
DEX sounds great, pretty much like Jide’s RemixOS. In fact I keep thinking that Jide may even be behind DEX. Except that as a Samsung exclusive and without the type of freedom and support only a custom ROM can give you, shelling out the equivalent of a full luxury notebook for a device that will be out of support before everything even fully works, is in all likelihood just repeating a stupid mistake I have already made twice: With the Note 1 und the Note 3.
And those had batteries that could be swapped and a plastic chassis that would bend when dropped and just pop open when the battery died and expanded: These days a dying batterie will take case and display with it when it pops. In fact some of these phone bodies are so strong, an expanding battery can only expand through the display.
One of my sons had a phone built like a tank. When that battery died, it couldn't expand, because the phone was too rigid on all sides. So the battery safety seal, typically designed to contain all those gases and triple volume without breaking, had no choice but to expand inside through tiny seams, breaking the battery seal, crushing and wrecking chemical and thermal havoc on the main board, SIM and SDcard. Nothing could be recovered and just sending it in for repairs was a logistics nighmare similar to the Galaxy Note 7.
Edge display: Design over reason. I’ll never buy or sponsor a phone that cannot be properly protected by a silicon case that fully protects a phone falling on any ordinary flat surface. That includes a wrap-around for the front sufficiently thick to extend beyond the extra glass screen, which is another minimal addition to open my purse. Some edge on all sides of the display is obviously required, so that the silicon overlap can run out in front.
A fingerprint reader on the back is silly when you want to operate the phone magnetically mounted in your car (via metal plate behind the silicon cover) for the “no fumble” dock and undock. One of these days somebody will be killed by a driver that bent to have his face recognized by his phone: I just hope he drives off a cliff before he hits me.
Obviously, I don’t care the least about the body material, color or how any other surface than the screen looks, because I’ll never see or touch it underneath the protective cover. I just hope it absorbs shock, stress and bending sufficiently well to never be noticed (negatively). For all I care they could be “naked” underneath but plastic is totally fine. Annoyingly it’s really hard to get anything but glass and metal even with entry level hardware these days.
There may be people who get pre-orgasmic from a phone’s design. I want to buy a tool that is as useful as it can be. That includes eliminating the need for an extra PC. With the CPU power, RAM and storage available in the phone form factor these days, that is entirely within reach and no longer even requires compromising on computing power.
Samsung has all the ingredients. They could save a lot of money on design, the camera, advertising, full-metal-bodies and other things I do not care the least about, include 8GB of RAM, add USB 3 type speed on a connector that can never bend or suffer physical damage from which docking/undocking and a battery that can be swapped easily.
I’d be ready to buy that at half the price they are currently charging, if they either guaranteed 4 full years of monthly patch support or simply full source code for Custom ROMs.
What they currently offer instead has so little value I cannot imagine anyone falling for it, except those unfortunate or malicious enough to drop their previous phone on the edge.
ZeDestructor - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
I don't have experience with everything yu pointed out, but I will respond to a few:Battery expansion: I had that happen with my Xperia Z2 glass sandwich. I didn't have quite as bad a time as you though: the battery just popped the back glass panel up a little bit as it expanded (and broke the waterproofing while at it).
One walk into the shop I bought it at, one form filled, and about a week later my replacement phone was ready for pickup. Similar story was water ingress on my Xperia Z from failed glue around the camera (it was covered in oily fingerprints, so I did the usual technique of washing it under the tap). Similar walk-in and form filling and I had a brand new unit bout a week later.
Fingerprint reader on the back is fine for many people when driving: unlock the phone before you put it into the car holder (I have to do it anyways to launch AAuto). Talking of AAuto, it's the only thing I have running on my phonewhen I'm driving, specifically because it locks out almost everything interactive, and what little is interactive is as simple as it can be.
If you want it even more automated, you can setup smart unlock to auto unlock your phone near applicable BT devices (like your smartwatch or car radio) and wifi networks, but I'm not the biggest fan of that much automation.
Edge display: they're tougher than they look. a LOT tougher. I've had glass sandwich phones since the Xperia Z (Z, Z1 and Z2), and 3D glass in aluminium/plastic bodies for the rest (HTC One X, HTC 10, OnePlus 5). So far I have yet to damage a single screen or back panel, despite me dropping my phone a LOT (somewhere around once a week minimum). Said drops are typically from chest height or higher, onto concrete, wood, asphalt, marble, ceramic, steel.
Oh, and I have never used a case on any of my phones ever, so the phones' sides and back get all sorts of scratches, marks, gouges, while the screen is fine thanks to having harder glass (my Xperia Z could be used as a really shitty saw after a year of my abuse, for example...). Still amazed I somehow haven't dropped any of my phones into a drain though...
Talking of cases, I refuse to go back to plastic bodies for my primary phone. If you recase your phone, then plastic, or even just the bare frame is fine. For people like me who have their phone completely naked to the elements (because we have faith it'll survive being dropped repeatedly), plastic just feels like crap after half a decade of anodized aluminium or glass. Even the really nice polycarbonate stuff Nokia and HTC used feels a bit slimy and cheap in comparison (I have an N9 I toy around with, and a Lumia 950XL in the mail).
Oh, and not all of us have purses. For example: I use my right pants pocket as the dedicated phone pocket. This affects how thick people can accept their phone being. Me? I have no problem with a 15-17mm thick phone. Hell, I'd probably accept 20 maybe even 25mm thick (based on how often I've lugged 2-3 phones in that single pocket), but most other people do care, and it seems that 10mm is the max they'll accept in their pocket, so here we are.
For the value question, that's mostly up to you. A lot of people (myself included) don't really mind paying 700-1200 on our phones, given it's a device we use every day, everywhere, and a lot of us DO care about things like design and camera (advertising is cancer can do die in a toxic sewer on fire though), and we pay up for it.
The real problem with value from the tier 1s like Samsung is that smaller vendors like Oneplus and Razer exist at a good $400 lower MSRP for almost the same overall performance, if not occasionally better. The Exynos S9 looks like it might hold that performance top spot for 2018 though, which is a nice return to form from Samsung LSI.
If you care about RAM capacity and performance, you should look at the tier 2 vendors like Oneplus and Razer: those guys been shipping 6GB in 2016, and 8GB in 2017 in volume. Realistically, you can't ship much more because that's as big as LPDDR gets right now. Expect to see more 8GB phones this year, with a couple of 10GB and maybe even 12GB nutters sprinkled around.
Finally, removable batteries: the market has spoken loudly and removable batteries are truly gone and never coming back outside of a few very special niches, which sadly charge iphone prices for underpowered pieces of crap. Seriously, just look at the Cat S61 for example. It's an overall rbillinant $999 phone.. that's completely let down by shipping a miserly Snapdragon 630, 4GB of RAM and a piddly 1080p screen. Sell it for 1299 with an S845 or S835, 8GB of RAM and a 1440p screen and I'd happily buy it. Hell, I'd buy it with just a 1080p OLED screen.
abufrejoval - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
"purse" was meant in the original sense of money bag: As a male in my fifties I'd feel a bit awkward carrying a woman's purse :-)I currently own a Oneplus 5 with 8GB of RAM and 128 GB of storage. It's an acceptable price point and runs custom ROMs.
I have tried using it as a desktop replacement via a DisplayLink adapter and the Sentio desktop suite.
It's almost usable in terms of display speed, even if it's only running across USB 2. At the moment I am missing charging support and Ethernet via USB (for security reasons). The Sentio software also isn't anywhere near as good as RemixOS was, but that is also not really, really good either.
Changeable batteries: I doubt it was the consumers that spoke: Vendors eliminated choice to reduce their risk exposure to fake batteries.
I am glad you never managed to break your phone. So far I didn't either. But my kids did, several times and often enough just after spending their entire savings on this fantastic new phone they had been dreaming of. The heartache was terrible, especially since one actually had a flip cover (he actually accelerated the drop by trying to catch it and it struck the screen), the other couldn't find a matching case to buy and it broke on its first fall within a week.
Ananke - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
I completely agree, but most people in this forum here have not lived enough for having this life experience. Samsung's edge is a gimmick, that doesn't allow good protection of the screen.I am personally done with Samsung after dozens of family phones over the years - I particularly don't like their mediocre software attempts, and will never buy sth with "Bixby". It's sad that Google's Pixel 2 is so expensive, that would be kinda OK Android phone.
Next buy will probably be iPhone 7 - waterproof, and camera is OK, software works. I don't care about the rest, but I do care about the price, and in times when top Androids are running around a grand, iPhone be it. especially if Apple pulls sth like SE with the 7 body and 8 internals on the cheap. Then will outfit the entire family with iPhones and be done.
randomml - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
Hi andrei, nice article.Just wanna point out a slight mistake in this article.
"The second feature enhanced by the new sensor (as well as the SoC imaging pipelines) is the multi-frame noise reduction. Google’s Pixel’s devices and HDR+ algorithm were the first to use a software implementation of this feature."
This is not true. Multi-frame noise reduction has existing in phones for a long time, especially in Samsung phones.
User Manual describing the night mode of Galaxy S4 (Yes, galaxy s4! and night mode can be automatically toggled )
https://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/...
It started with the Galaxy S3 I believe
"Night: Take photos by combining them to get a brighter, clearer photo in low light, without flash."
Also, The Nexus phones that had HDR+ used multi-frame noise reduction too
jospoortvliet - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
I suppose this is different: those old devices would take several pictures, each processed by the sensor logic and sent to the SOC, then combined into one. This does the same but without the transfer, storing in memory and then processing on the sensor logic. So it can take the pictures faster, much closer together, resulting in less blurry moving objects or blur from shaking or, even better, relatively longer exposure under low light.randomml2 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
I agree, the current technology/methodology behind multi frame noise reduction between all these phones might be different whether it is done in SoC or ISP. Samsung claims that its new DRAM chip on the Galaxy S9/+ sensors enables it to stack up to 12 frames.However, the technique is still the same, basically improving SNR via multi image stacking/ image averaging / multi... however you call it.
SpartanJet - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
So again Samsung doesn't put the top processor is the US version so again I will skip buying a samsung.johnnycanadian - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
Yup, that I simply don't "get". I'd buy a 9810-based S9 to potentially replace my Pixel XL (version 1) the day that I could buy one in Canada ... but it doesn't seem like that will be the case, and I'm certainly not paying out the nose for a phone that has been intentionally hobbled for some baffling reason. And given how long it's taken Samsung to roll out Oreo for the S8 I might just have to stick with the Pixel XL until it dies.abrowne1993 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
So you're gonna pass up on a Samsung with an 845 instead of their own SoC to buy... another phone with an 845? Or an iPhone, but I doubt the processor is the deciding factor in that case.FullmetalTitan - Thursday, March 1, 2018 - link
I think consumer backlash will be exceptional for this generation if the 9810 performs as claimed. AFAIK the region lock is entirely due to licensing negotiations with qualcomm locking the 845 for the NA/Japan/China market.It's unclear what the tipping point would be for Samsung S.LSI to renegotiate their wafer/license agreements due to consumer feedback/sales.
neoak - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
"For this reason Samsung has pioneered, for the first time in a mobile device, the introduction of an adjustable aperture lens."Nope. I present to you the Nokia N86 with an adjustable aperture lens... In 2009:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Nokia_...
Azurael - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
And the Panasonic CM1... Although to be fair, Panasonic themselves seem to categorise it as a camera.Gigaplex - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
Why do they still release two separate phones (Exynos vs Snapdragon) under the same model?Solandri - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
Speculation is a poorly thought out contract agreement with Qualcomm from way back when the Exynos was just a glimmer in Samsung's eye. You have to understand that Samsung's different departments act almost entirely independently of each other. So for example their NAND fab will happily send the first batch of newer, faster, lower-power NAND to Apple instead of Samsung's electronics (phone) department if Apple is willing to pay more. Samsung Electronics probably inked an agreement with Qualcomm with little to no consideration for Samsung Semiconductors.abufrejoval - Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - link
I believe it's simply a matter of the Exynos Modem not supporting CMDA. Evidently Qualcomm's patents on this technology make it financially unattractive to include in SoCs that will be sold in non-CMDA territories while on Qualcomm SoCs it comes at a relative bargain. I believe that's also the reason behind the war that Apple is waging against Qualcomm.poohbear - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
"If the Galaxy S9 ends up a good upgrade over the Galaxy S8 is a question that might have different answers depending on which market you’re located in. The Exynos variant promises some monumental performance increases on the side of the CPU that will likely not happen any time soon again."So wait, qualcomm's snapdragon and Samsung's exynos have completely different performance on the same phone?? What motivation is there for us North American users to buy one then?
Wardrive86 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
I wouldn't judge so quickly. There are still the questions of: multithreaded performance, sustained performance, battery life, GPU performance, drivers, etc. Hard to judge a system on single thread CPU performance alonewillis936 - Sunday, February 25, 2018 - link
No exynos and no more than 64 GB onboard in US market? Good luck with that.HardwareDufus - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
Really disappointed the US doesn't get the 256GB option... I won't be able to use the MicroSD slot becuase I require two nano-SIM slots. This flagship phone is out for me. (FWIW, my current 950XL has 160GB of storage - 32GB internal and 128GB microSD.... and still able to use both nano-SIM slots... this is one thing Microsoft got right!!)beginner99 - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
Too big, On-screen buttons. Well, it's getting near impossible to find a usable phone.AnnonymousCoward - Monday, February 26, 2018 - link
I know. It's ridiculous that the 2 sizes are 5.8" and 6.2". The smaller should be more like 5.4" (i.e. 137mm height).surt - Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - link
What is it that prevents US people from ordering the European version from some overseas retailer? I have 128GB on my current phone, more than half filled. My next phone will have 256.Hyper72 - Wednesday, March 7, 2018 - link
I guess lots of people prefer to get their phone from the telco and pay through the contract. Also Samsung in the US don't honor warranty on some phones from overseas.jamal0011 - Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - link
Latest New original New Samsung S9 cost 650USD. come with 1year warranty,
New iPhone X cost 700USD
New Samsung note 8 cost 600usd
iPhone 7 and 7 plus cost 550USD,
serious buyer should contact us.
Skype: faisa.hassan102
Gastec - Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - link
That's why the low availability and huge price increase of DDR4 and NAND,because these @&$!!es want to seel us new smarphones every 9 months. Well I for one got an older S7 and I'm going to hang on to it FOR YEARS. If I ever buy a Galaxy S9 it will be 10 years from now.Booyaah - Friday, March 2, 2018 - link
If I buy the UK version with the Exynos 9810, does anyone know for sure the phone supports CDMA networks like Verizon now for sure? Has it been 100% confirmed yet?Garwinderdali - Thursday, March 8, 2018 - link
Another attempt to copy and not set any trend but copy away and market as original. When I see Sams**t phones it makes my stomach turn. Like seeing a cheap Hyundai Genesis etc. From stealing Apples lock screen interface, then Sony's water IP ratings, to Apple dual camera, to countless gimmicks down to exploding phones and arrest of the heir and board president for condoning this currypted activity. Samsung is a joke brand stands for imitation. Why the F) $@ doesn't Apple Sony or even Black Berry lol Run some Steve Jobs like commercials and campaign against Samshit and expose them! Apple ran billions in marketing vicious ads to dethrone MS. 'I'm Mac im a PC'? Sega was bad ass also in its hay day. Now It's all about geeky garbage adds and hip hop coolness factor and market flooding with s**t . Steve Jobs would not stand for this Bulls**t. Sony once admired by the great is now full of skirt wearing bean counters. Although they did have to battle MS also in the video game arena and won, and lost tons of cash. Sony needs to stand the f#& up represent.peevee - Thursday, March 8, 2018 - link
"Preliminary GeekBench4 scores show astounding performance improvements on the side of the Exynos 9810 showing 78% improvements in integer workloads and 119% in the floating point tests"(3440/2041 - 1) * 100% = 68%, not 119%.
peevee - Thursday, March 8, 2018 - link
"especially when considering the maximum aperture of f/1.5 which allows for an incredibly shallow depth of field"On full-frame (36mmx24mm) sensors, not on the tiny smartphone sensors. f/1.5 on the sensors is something like f/10 on full-frame - not a shallow DoF at all.
raptir - Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - link
While it's easy to see the benchmarks on the Exynos model and be disappointed about the 845 in the US it doesn't tell the full story. The Adreno GPU in the Snapdragon model has better graphics driver support and overall better performance than the Mali GPU in the Exynos model. If you're doing something that's very intensive on both the CPU and GPU like emulation (say, GCN/Wii emulation via Dolphin) you'll get better performance out of the Snapdragon due to the better GPU support. Both will be fast for day-to-day usage so you're really only getting a lot out of the Exynos if you do very CPU-heavy but GPU-light tasks. I'm not sure what those would be on a phone.