"two OLED screens featuring a 2880×1600 combined resolution"
Hmm i tried gear vr on my s8 that has a 2960x1440 screen and everything looked like the first sea turtle, is htc doing something special here with that pentile oled display or is it just marketing?
Probably one part marketing (example: static images showing the the difference between 1080p and 4K televisions) and the other part being the rendering power of your S8 phone versus the rendering power of a 1080Ti.
No doubt the 1080ti had more horsepower but the pentile screen door effect was clearly visible on the s8, better gpu won't help. Never tried these standalone vr units so it would be nice to compare.
The screen door effect isn't much helped by improving screen resolution (at least not by improving screen resolution alone). For comparison, PSVR has reduced screen door effect compared to current Vive despite having a lower resolution display. The problem isn't the pixels - it's the space between the pixels. If you built a display with solid rectangular pixels that touched the adjacent pixels, there would be no screen door effect even if the resolution was only a hundred pixels across.
If we are going to qualify the screen door effect as annoyance at seeing the lines/grid alone... Then the heck with the screen door effect...
Even the sub pixel "grain" grates on my nerves leaving me wanting more fidelity before I subscribe at the high entry cost.
I consider myself rabidly interested in all experiences that are immersive and stereoscopic but aside from demoing each new device... I have yet to open my wallet at these prices on an experience that comes close to a realistic value for the experience we are asked to suffer ( except for the trivial cost of second gear VR at $30 bucks )
Same as all display devices lately... The aging tech like oled and hdr at qhd and uhd has been absent or at an insane premium for far to long.
Wish there was a final notification app to inform us when the industry is finished string us along. OLED and HDR will be a flexible ubiquitous acetate sticker ( thus at a negligible price ) in about 4 years when it should had been so 6 years ago considering the flexi-poster oled has been touted for the past 15 years.
Every CES same damn thing... Still at a premium?
Did VIVE Pro REALLY need 2 years to be released? It's simply an iteration? smh...
The Samsung Odessey sound interesting so long as that initial price drops quickly enough. I might finally buy in to VR with the Samsung as a temp measure till the VR experience is primetime. ( Not likely anytime soon. Lackluster Vega means the Volta touted 2 years ago while Pascal was parked in it's place. Didn't have to be released any time soon )
Feeling strung along? Nvidia can release a GTX 1080 ti Pro now I suppose? Promote that release with a free version of next gen Vaseline.
In regards to all of them you really have to be focusing on the subpixels or in a completely whitish gray room to really notice it. Also, if it bothers you, you can adjust the focal length to soften the image. PSVR uses software to do this and really blurs the crap out of the image to reduce the effect. Granted on any of them its an already soft image but this is hardly a deal breaker. Both Vive and Oculus use similar diamond pentile which diffuse the subpixel distance relatively evenly. PSVR has a wider horizontal distance vs vertical. That being said, increasing resolution/pixel density on a given sized panel correlates to decreased subpixel spacing so increasing the resolution will help.
2 is a replacement and pro exists alongside. The price has come down so much at launch the pro will probably launch at a lower price than a "2" will when it launches. "2" will have features like eye tracking, a wider field of view, and possibly even some system to mitigate the vergence-accomodation conflict.
what? very confusing. this is just the second generation. the third generation will have backwards compatibility too. pricing is irrelevant. you'll want the pro. you'll want the "2".
Its not the 2, though. The second generation of VR will have more features than just a boost in resolution. Calling this Vive Pro second generation would be like saying the XBox One X is not an 8th generation console but rather a 9th generation console. If they came out with the second generation now it would be a lot more expensive than the pro is going to be.
why drop the price at all? It isn't as if the initial VR HMD devices were released at an insane price point that the mainstream balked at as being a ridiculously unrealistic price-point value for a consumer entertainment system that wasn't even standalone.
HaHeHAr D Har... ( Quick some one shoot me while my back is turned. ) Hoo Ha Har..
equals ("=") is present tense so I used present tense in my reply.. The second generation is not out yet. Pro is not the second generation, it's an intragenerational boost in resolution. I'm not sure what you meant by bringing up backwards compatibility. I never suggested there wouldn't be backwards compatibility in the upcoming generations. New features will be introduced that developers will need to program for to take advantage of, though. Pricing can't be irrelevant, since it is the topic of the thread. When is pricing ever irrelevant to a purchase, though?
VR is about where HDTV adoption was in 2001, where 720p rear projection panels cost $5000, looked horrible, and had almost no available content. HD wasn't dead in 2001, it just didn't make sense at that time. It's going to be quite a while before we can own VR headsets with 4K per eye and no wires.
As a fan of everything 3D... Why shouldn't VR die? It's just another amazing stereoscopic experience? I suspect if the majority of people lost an eye they would hardly make a fuss? And I am almost certain that if all Audio stereo came at a price premium the same as Sterescopic devices That we would all be listening to music in mono today and Geoff Emerick and George Martin would have never realized their stereo dreams when they battled the industry, audiences and the Beatles themselves to convince the world that a soundscape including "depth" was a superior experience.
:(
I do not understand the oohing and ahhing during tabletop rts AR demos when the majority of that experience of your toys coming alive has been possible for awhile now simply by playing the same .. say Age of Empires or Starcraft II with the benefit of 3d-vision and multi monitor surround immersion?
Screw the cyclops world and the knee jerk "3d is a gimmick" ditto head lemmings. We do not deserve the two eyes we were born with!
Have things gotten so spoiled "Louis CK prophetic: everything is amazing and no one is happy"... That a device released this year needs to be qualified with an:
"ONLY coming LATER in 2018"?
As if as much dismisses that a mainstream tetherless WiGig solution is finally a reality this year? OK... Fine! I believe that the 2nd iteration of Vive shouldn't have taken 2 years either? But sheesh isn't it kind of entitled to believe that a release cycle's designation between stand alone vs package release should be so circumspect?
People who Already of Vive will appreciate the lower cost of standalone HMD in consideration of their towers and controllers where the only additional cost will be WiGig. And Those without Vive will appreciate the package released later? ( unless released at another exorbitant pricepoint )
Sounds predictably reasonable no? ( unless I am missing something obvious... again :) )
Looks like this will be sold as a standalone 'upgrade' to the Vive initially. HTC may be waiting for valve to finally get their finger out and start shipping the newer single-rotor basestations and 'knuckle' controllers before they start bundling, or they want to make the price appear more palatable by cutting the cost of pack-ins.
Talks of increasing resolution don't impress me very much. It feels very directionless to me. It's nice - but unless they address screen door, tethering, making outside-in tracking optional, and a host of other things, all increased resolution *really* means is, "That VR-Ready PC you just bought is not VR-Ready any more"
I'd also be a lot more enthused with a "Pro" unit meant for Professional use, not just a "Pro" buzzword to justify a higher price. I don't even know what Pro means any more.
This is what would make me (and I think a lot of other people) happy:
1. Officially embrace Windows Mixed Reality with a Vive-variant WMR headset. Either eliminate the lighthouses altogether or support them optionally for higher-accuracy controllers. SteamVR already runs (really well) on WMR - so what's the Vive for, exactly? Except for broad sweeping strokes in TiltBrush that leave the WMR FOV, I haven't been able to figure out what Vive is better at.
2. Make "Pro" mean something again. Forget tacking the "Pro" moniker onto a slightly higher resolution consumer device and adding unexplained features like the extra camera. Make it 4k+, something like the StarVR headset - aimed at theme park and theatrical installations, professional training and simulation, industrial/scientific and so on. It can be strictly Vive tech - lighthouses and so on, built to support large scale spaces. If you're giving it stereo cameras, explain why. Gesture recognition and hand pose estimation? Lighthouse-free head tracking? Spatial understanding?
In short: Make me feel like there's a product roadmap - a vision for the space.
Every Moment technology has become a new invention, It has been growing day by day, it has been for us to relieve our lifestyle, but if they're having some issue then need support. We all play Games, One of the Game I suggest Xbox there support has been very much effective for help to the consumer. It has been appreciated. Need to Follow "http://xboxsupport.strikingly.com/" --> Xbox Support, its Helps.
Every Moment technology has become a new invention, it has been growing day by day, it has been for us to relieve our lifestyle, but if they're having some issue then need support. We all Print every day something, but in case we have some issue overshare so we need support as quickly as possible then we Need to Follow http://printersupporthelp.strikingly.com/ - > Printer Support it Helps. And of course, they are very much supportive. I think Printer Support will help us with the Matter.
Every Moment technology has become a new invention, it has been growing day by day, it has been for us to relieve our lifestyle, but if they're having some issue then need support. We all use Windows system software most of the time, So many People having windows in their pc or, laptop, But in case we have some issue over there so we need support as quickly as possible then we Need to Follow <a href="http://windowssupport.windowssupport.co/"> Windows Support </a>, it Helps. And of course, they are very much supportive. I think Windows Support will help us with the Matter.
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Danvelopment - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
2 = Better product, same or better pricePro = Better product, worse price
Looks like I won't be going VR yet.
shabby - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
"two OLED screens featuring a 2880×1600 combined resolution"Hmm i tried gear vr on my s8 that has a 2960x1440 screen and everything looked like the first sea turtle, is htc doing something special here with that pentile oled display or is it just marketing?
nathanddrews - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
Probably one part marketing (example: static images showing the the difference between 1080p and 4K televisions) and the other part being the rendering power of your S8 phone versus the rendering power of a 1080Ti.shabby - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
No doubt the 1080ti had more horsepower but the pentile screen door effect was clearly visible on the s8, better gpu won't help. Never tried these standalone vr units so it would be nice to compare.eoffermann - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
The screen door effect isn't much helped by improving screen resolution (at least not by improving screen resolution alone). For comparison, PSVR has reduced screen door effect compared to current Vive despite having a lower resolution display. The problem isn't the pixels - it's the space between the pixels. If you built a display with solid rectangular pixels that touched the adjacent pixels, there would be no screen door effect even if the resolution was only a hundred pixels across.theuglyman0war - Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - link
If we are going to qualify the screen door effect as annoyance at seeing the lines/grid alone...Then the heck with the screen door effect...
Even the sub pixel "grain" grates on my nerves leaving me wanting more fidelity before I subscribe at the high entry cost.
I consider myself rabidly interested in all experiences that are immersive and stereoscopic but aside from demoing each new device...
I have yet to open my wallet at these prices on an experience that comes close to a realistic value for the experience we are asked to suffer ( except for the trivial cost of second gear VR at $30 bucks )
Same as all display devices lately...
The aging tech like oled and hdr at qhd and uhd has been absent or at an insane premium for far to long.
Wish there was a final notification app to inform us when the industry is finished string us along.
OLED and HDR will be a flexible ubiquitous acetate sticker ( thus at a negligible price ) in about 4 years when it should had been so 6 years ago considering the flexi-poster oled has been touted for the past 15 years.
Every CES same damn thing...
Still at a premium?
Did VIVE Pro REALLY need 2 years to be released? It's simply an iteration?
smh...
The Samsung Odessey sound interesting so long as that initial price drops quickly enough.
I might finally buy in to VR with the Samsung as a temp measure till the VR experience is primetime.
( Not likely anytime soon. Lackluster Vega means the Volta touted 2 years ago while Pascal was parked in it's place. Didn't have to be released any time soon )
Feeling strung along?
Nvidia can release a GTX 1080 ti Pro now I suppose?
Promote that release with a free version of next gen Vaseline.
Manch - Tuesday, February 6, 2018 - link
In regards to all of them you really have to be focusing on the subpixels or in a completely whitish gray room to really notice it. Also, if it bothers you, you can adjust the focal length to soften the image. PSVR uses software to do this and really blurs the crap out of the image to reduce the effect. Granted on any of them its an already soft image but this is hardly a deal breaker. Both Vive and Oculus use similar diamond pentile which diffuse the subpixel distance relatively evenly. PSVR has a wider horizontal distance vs vertical. That being said, increasing resolution/pixel density on a given sized panel correlates to decreased subpixel spacing so increasing the resolution will help.Yojimbo - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
2 is a replacement and pro exists alongside. The price has come down so much at launch the pro will probably launch at a lower price than a "2" will when it launches. "2" will have features like eye tracking, a wider field of view, and possibly even some system to mitigate the vergence-accomodation conflict.Pinn - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
what? very confusing. this is just the second generation. the third generation will have backwards compatibility too. pricing is irrelevant. you'll want the pro. you'll want the "2".Danvelopment - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
My point is they called it the Pro (which is really the 2) so that they didn't have to drop the price.Yojimbo - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
Its not the 2, though. The second generation of VR will have more features than just a boost in resolution. Calling this Vive Pro second generation would be like saying the XBox One X is not an 8th generation console but rather a 9th generation console. If they came out with the second generation now it would be a lot more expensive than the pro is going to be.theuglyman0war - Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - link
why drop the price at all?It isn't as if the initial VR HMD devices were released at an insane price point that the mainstream balked at as being a ridiculously unrealistic price-point value for a consumer entertainment system that wasn't even standalone.
HaHeHAr D Har... ( Quick some one shoot me while my back is turned. ) Hoo Ha Har..
Yojimbo - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
equals ("=") is present tense so I used present tense in my reply.. The second generation is not out yet. Pro is not the second generation, it's an intragenerational boost in resolution. I'm not sure what you meant by bringing up backwards compatibility. I never suggested there wouldn't be backwards compatibility in the upcoming generations. New features will be introduced that developers will need to program for to take advantage of, though. Pricing can't be irrelevant, since it is the topic of the thread. When is pricing ever irrelevant to a purchase, though?JoeyJoJo123 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
VR is dead like 3D TVs.Yojimbo - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
VR is just getting started.gerz1219 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
VR is about where HDTV adoption was in 2001, where 720p rear projection panels cost $5000, looked horrible, and had almost no available content. HD wasn't dead in 2001, it just didn't make sense at that time. It's going to be quite a while before we can own VR headsets with 4K per eye and no wires.Pinn - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
yay futuretheuglyman0war - Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - link
As a fan of everything 3D...Why shouldn't VR die?
It's just another amazing stereoscopic experience?
I suspect if the majority of people lost an eye they would hardly make a fuss?
And I am almost certain that if all Audio stereo came at a price premium the same as Sterescopic devices That we would all be listening to music in mono today and Geoff Emerick and George Martin would have never realized their stereo dreams when they battled the industry, audiences and the Beatles themselves to convince the world that a soundscape including "depth" was a superior experience.
:(
I do not understand the oohing and ahhing during tabletop rts AR demos when the majority of that experience of your toys coming alive has been possible for awhile now simply by playing the same .. say Age of Empires or Starcraft II with the benefit of 3d-vision and multi monitor surround immersion?
Screw the cyclops world and the knee jerk "3d is a gimmick" ditto head lemmings. We do not deserve the two eyes we were born with!
Pinn - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Any advancement in cord cutting? Either wireless transfer or backpacks?timecop1818 - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
Yes, did you even look at vive.com? The pro version comes with Intel WiGig wireless adapter.edzieba - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
Did you look? The WiGig adapter is not launching with the HMD, and only coming 'later in 2018'.theuglyman0war - Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - link
it is 2018?Have things gotten so spoiled "Louis CK prophetic: everything is amazing and no one is happy"...
That a device released this year needs to be qualified with an:
"ONLY coming LATER in 2018"?
As if as much dismisses that a mainstream tetherless WiGig solution is finally a reality this year?
OK... Fine! I believe that the 2nd iteration of Vive shouldn't have taken 2 years either? But sheesh isn't it kind of entitled to believe that a release cycle's designation between stand alone vs package release should be so circumspect?
People who Already of Vive will appreciate the lower cost of standalone HMD in consideration of their towers and controllers where the only additional cost will be WiGig. And Those without Vive will appreciate the package released later? ( unless released at another exorbitant pricepoint )
Sounds predictably reasonable no? ( unless I am missing something obvious... again :) )
edzieba - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
Looks like this will be sold as a standalone 'upgrade' to the Vive initially. HTC may be waiting for valve to finally get their finger out and start shipping the newer single-rotor basestations and 'knuckle' controllers before they start bundling, or they want to make the price appear more palatable by cutting the cost of pack-ins.eoffermann - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
Talks of increasing resolution don't impress me very much. It feels very directionless to me. It's nice - but unless they address screen door, tethering, making outside-in tracking optional, and a host of other things, all increased resolution *really* means is, "That VR-Ready PC you just bought is not VR-Ready any more"I'd also be a lot more enthused with a "Pro" unit meant for Professional use, not just a "Pro" buzzword to justify a higher price. I don't even know what Pro means any more.
This is what would make me (and I think a lot of other people) happy:
1. Officially embrace Windows Mixed Reality with a Vive-variant WMR headset. Either eliminate the lighthouses altogether or support them optionally for higher-accuracy controllers. SteamVR already runs (really well) on WMR - so what's the Vive for, exactly? Except for broad sweeping strokes in TiltBrush that leave the WMR FOV, I haven't been able to figure out what Vive is better at.
2. Make "Pro" mean something again. Forget tacking the "Pro" moniker onto a slightly higher resolution consumer device and adding unexplained features like the extra camera. Make it 4k+, something like the StarVR headset - aimed at theme park and theatrical installations, professional training and simulation, industrial/scientific and so on. It can be strictly Vive tech - lighthouses and so on, built to support large scale spaces. If you're giving it stereo cameras, explain why. Gesture recognition and hand pose estimation? Lighthouse-free head tracking? Spatial understanding?
In short: Make me feel like there's a product roadmap - a vision for the space.
Lord of the Bored - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
SEA TURTLExbox - Monday, July 23, 2018 - link
Every Moment technology has become a new invention, It has been growing day by day, it has been for us to relieve our lifestyle, but if they're having some issue then need support. We all play Games, One of the Game I suggest Xbox there support has been very much effective for help to the consumer. It has been appreciated. Need to Follow "http://xboxsupport.strikingly.com/" --> Xbox Support, its Helps.printersupportchat - Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - link
Every Moment technology has become a new invention, it has been growing day by day, it has been for us to relieve our lifestyle, but if they're having some issue then need support. We all Print every day something, but in case we have some issue overshare so we need support as quickly as possible then we Need to Follow http://printersupporthelp.strikingly.com/ - > Printer Support it Helps. And of course, they are very much supportive.I think Printer Support will help us with the Matter.
windowssupport - Sunday, October 21, 2018 - link
Every Moment technology has become a new invention, it has been growing day by day, it has been for us to relieve our lifestyle, but if they're having some issue then need support. We all use Windows system software most of the time, So many People having windows in their pc or, laptop, But in case we have some issue over there so we need support as quickly as possible then we Need to Follow <a href="http://windowssupport.windowssupport.co/"> Windows Support </a>, it Helps. And of course, they are very much supportive.I think Windows Support will help us with the Matter.
windowssupport - Sunday, October 21, 2018 - link
http://windowssupport.windowssupport.co/""> Windows Support