Thanks for getting part 1 done so quickly. It is the only review I have found so far. While I am waiting for part 2... how about this for a request. A review of: 1) Voodoo m:855 Athlon64 2) Alienware Area 51m P4 (EE if they will put one in it) 3) Dell Precision M60 w/128MB Quadro FX Go700
They are all about the similar prices and represent the best of thier worlds.
I appoligise (to everybody actually) for my comments. I was upset that the review was lacking what i was hoping for, and i appoligise. In the future, i willl bite my tongue before accusing anybody of anything.
First let me start by saying - much respect goes out to the editors of Anandtech, as they have been very professional about this entire review process, and in no way did VoodooPC "pay" to get reviewed. Quite frankly that's a ridiculous suggestion and to the person who suggested this, please read this entire message before making your decision.
Sager is a great company, and they have an excellent relationship with Clevo, their ODM.
I give companies like Sager major respect - because their volumes are overwhelming, and their products are for the most part really good. Companies like Sager will purchase the notebooks directly from Taiwan/China and install a processor, hard drive, and memory here in North America. This saves them a ton of money, and it's certainly a cheaper alternative for many people. Voodoo doesn't profess to be the most inexpensive PC company in the world, and as such we cater to a smaller niche than Sager or Prostar. Even though we don't "fabricate" the components, we do assemble the notebooks from the ground up in North America (we're the only company who does this). We also make major thermal modifications to many of our notebook platforms - and we include things like Upgrade Assurance, our performance is also higher than our competition (or we like to think so :-) )
I would also like to point out that it's really hard to do a head to head comparison on various notebooks, simply because the specs are usually almost always different. There are many things to consider, like Thermal Overhead, Chipset Termination, MB Layout, etc.
So for example, if you compare the Sager 5680 with a Voodoo m:855 you'll notice a number of differences. The Voodoo has unreal battery life (in our tests - not sure about Anandtechs tests yet), where as the Sager doesn't due to the fact that it's using a desktop processor from Intel. The thermals in the Voodoo allow our system to remain cooler, and as such our thermal overhead will allow for some pretty awesome upgrades in the future. Our notebook is lighter, and it uses a 1400X1050 Display that's suited for gaming (low response time). The Sager has one of the nicest looking screens on the planet (1600X1200 WVA) - it's amazing, but it also kills the battery life, increases the weight, and the response time is slower.
My point is, all notebooks are not created equal. What is important to understand is every user is unique - and as such as user needs to choose a notebook that suits their needs.
In my opinion, the best CPU(s) on the planet for notebooks are either the Pentium M or the Athlon 64 for Notebooks. The Athlon 64 allows you to truly get desktop performance and still maintain some of the mobility you may be looking for.
FYI MADCAT it is true that VoodooPC was the first to introduce M10 to North America (and even Europe!) with our m:460 notebook. If you have any doubt you should email someone in the mobility side of ATI for verification before you drop a judgement.
We have since made changes to that product and we're planning to release a newer version soon. This doesn't make us "special" - because there are many reasons why we were the first to release M10. I can't get into too much detail, but what I can say is that NVIDIA had the majority of design wins at the beginning.
Anyways, just some thoughts - please know that Anandtech was our first choice for an online review because of their integrity and committment to unbiased honest journalism. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the vast majority of online sights, so please continue to support these guys.
Who knows, maybe in PART 2 they'll say our notebook blows, and the battery life is not all that we profess - if so we're going back to the drawing board. :-)
If anyone has any questions on our products or our company please feel free to drop me a line anytime.
(I'm now preparing to duck, waiting for someone to flame me)
"the only people reviewed were those who could pay enough to get reviewed..."
Or maybe the people who just send them systems that they can review. I'm sure you envision Anandtech editors as people who snap their fingers and systems fly in their laps ;P.
Anyhow I wanted to see a comparable DPR 3.2Ghz P4 notebook review, but eh I'm not going to go cry about not seeing it in the review as they more or less just couldn't get one.
I don't think it is fair to say that only the people that paid enough got reviewed...not all manufactures have the surplus to send out reviews, and Anand is one of the few good 3rd party review sites. Ever read Cnet? Now there is a site to take with a grain of salt <rolls eyes>
Anyway, as far as not showing the ATi performance relative to the other laptops I would imagine that that is because the 8600 performed above all those other laptops, and as such it would be redundant to show the ATi beating all of them time and again.
I find it frustrating that I have yet to see a review done with the nVidia 5650 using the latest drivers. Sure, Dell is slow in releasing "official" drivers, but it took me all of 2 minutes to find an INF file patch to make the 52.16 drivers work on my Inspiron 8600, I'm sure the Anandtech staff could have found them as well. I realize the ATI 9600 is faster than the nVidia 5650, but I would like to see the latest drivers on one compared to the latest drivers on the other.
"Well, seeing as this is the first 9600 based production notebook they have in the lab in the moment, its kinda hard to bench it against any others. WHEN they review the Sager, I'm sure they will have the Voodoo benchie in there. "
Funny, i have had my Sager 5680 with a 9600Pro for more than a month now. This Voodoo system is in no way the first to have that chip....
Anyway, in no way am i a troll.. i call it as i see it. as i see it, the only people reviewed were those who could pay enough to get reviewed...
Well, seeing as this is the first 9600 based production notebook they have in the lab in the moment, its kinda hard to bench it against any others. WHEN they review the Sager, I'm sure they will have the Voodoo benchie in there.
No offence.... But why didn't you compare the preformance of this notebook v. several other notebooks when it came to game preformance... I'm more than a little dissapointed to see yet another ATI/nVidia comparison in what should be a comparison of finished notebook products.
#7: AnandTech doesnt get paid to do reviews. What a troll. Did you even notice Andrew wrote this review and not Anand? I'm writing this on a Sager by the way.
Yes, would have been nice to see some competition in there. It was interesting none the less, but it even says in the review that the closest competitor is Alienware. And Alienware has both fx5600go and M10 in their machines.
There is a reason that this can still be called a 9600 Pro. First of all, the revelation of the requirements for the Pro name only came to light in the last 48 hours. Sager themselves wouldn't have known about this until recently.
The Voodoo was put up against no real competition, so of course it won. Why did anandtech not bother with getting a Sager 5680 or 8890 to compare with, since those are P4 machines with real 9600 pros....
1) Is it hard to have the product in question (ie, the one being reviewed) highlighted in some way on the graphs? It can't be that hard to do the bar in red or whatever. Granted, when comparing the M10 to the Go5650, there's not as much sense, but when comparing 10 or so CPU's it'd sure be nice to quickly identify what stands where.
2) Should the X2 performance scores with 4xAA/8xAF be taken with a grain of salt? Why does the M10 increase approx 25% going from 1024x768 to 1280x1024 ... ?
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bgallemore - Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - link
Thanks for getting part 1 done so quickly. It is the only review I have found so far. While I am waiting for part 2... how about this for a request. A review of:1) Voodoo m:855 Athlon64
2) Alienware Area 51m P4 (EE if they will put one in it)
3) Dell Precision M60 w/128MB Quadro FX Go700
They are all about the similar prices and represent the best of thier worlds.
Madcat207 - Friday, November 7, 2003 - link
Rahul-I appoligise (to everybody actually) for my comments. I was upset that the review was lacking what i was hoping for, and i appoligise. In the future, i willl bite my tongue before accusing anybody of anything.
ssamurai26 - Friday, November 7, 2003 - link
Very well written well thought out response, thank you Voodoo.gordon151 - Thursday, November 6, 2003 - link
Poor starving college kids gets no love from VoodooPC. Keep wishing!EdvardGrieg - Thursday, November 6, 2003 - link
Thanks Rahul,I tried to mention the same type of things in my post. How about a new notebook for a poor-starving college student ;-)
~Aaron
voodoopc - Thursday, November 6, 2003 - link
Hi Guys,First let me start by saying - much respect goes out to the editors of Anandtech, as they have been very professional about this entire review process, and in no way did VoodooPC "pay" to get reviewed. Quite frankly that's a ridiculous suggestion and to the person who suggested this, please read this entire message before making your decision.
Sager is a great company, and they have an excellent relationship with Clevo, their ODM.
I give companies like Sager major respect - because their volumes are overwhelming, and their products are for the most part really good. Companies like Sager will purchase the notebooks directly from Taiwan/China and install a processor, hard drive, and memory here in North America. This saves them a ton of money, and it's certainly a cheaper alternative for many people. Voodoo doesn't profess to be the most inexpensive PC company in the world, and as such we cater to a smaller niche than Sager or Prostar. Even though we don't "fabricate" the components, we do assemble the notebooks from the ground up in North America (we're the only company who does this). We also make major thermal modifications to many of our notebook platforms - and we include things like Upgrade Assurance, our performance is also higher than our competition (or we like to think so :-) )
I would also like to point out that it's really hard to do a head to head comparison on various notebooks, simply because the specs are usually almost always different. There are many things to consider, like Thermal Overhead, Chipset Termination, MB Layout, etc.
So for example, if you compare the Sager 5680 with a Voodoo m:855 you'll notice a number of differences. The Voodoo has unreal battery life (in our tests - not sure about Anandtechs tests yet), where as the Sager doesn't due to the fact that it's using a desktop processor from Intel. The thermals in the Voodoo allow our system to remain cooler, and as such our thermal overhead will allow for some pretty awesome upgrades in the future. Our notebook is lighter, and it uses a 1400X1050 Display that's suited for gaming (low response time). The Sager has one of the nicest looking screens on the planet (1600X1200 WVA) - it's amazing, but it also kills the battery life, increases the weight, and the response time is slower.
My point is, all notebooks are not created equal. What is important to understand is every user is unique - and as such as user needs to choose a notebook that suits their needs.
In my opinion, the best CPU(s) on the planet for notebooks are either the Pentium M or the Athlon 64 for Notebooks. The Athlon 64 allows you to truly get desktop performance and still maintain some of the mobility you may be looking for.
FYI MADCAT it is true that VoodooPC was the first to introduce M10 to North America (and even Europe!) with our m:460 notebook. If you have any doubt you should email someone in the mobility side of ATI for verification before you drop a judgement.
We have since made changes to that product and we're planning to release a newer version soon. This doesn't make us "special" - because there are many reasons why we were the first to release M10. I can't get into too much detail, but what I can say is that NVIDIA had the majority of design wins at the beginning.
Anyways, just some thoughts - please know that Anandtech was our first choice for an online review because of their integrity and committment to unbiased honest journalism. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the vast majority of online sights, so please continue to support these guys.
Who knows, maybe in PART 2 they'll say our notebook blows, and the battery life is not all that we profess - if so we're going back to the drawing board. :-)
If anyone has any questions on our products or our company please feel free to drop me a line anytime.
(I'm now preparing to duck, waiting for someone to flame me)
Rahul Sood
President & CTO
VoodooPC
(888)708-6636
gordon151 - Thursday, November 6, 2003 - link
"the only people reviewed were those who could pay enough to get reviewed..."Or maybe the people who just send them systems that they can review. I'm sure you envision Anandtech editors as people who snap their fingers and systems fly in their laps ;P.
Anyhow I wanted to see a comparable DPR 3.2Ghz P4 notebook review, but eh I'm not going to go cry about not seeing it in the review as they more or less just couldn't get one.
EdvardGrieg - Thursday, November 6, 2003 - link
I don't think it is fair to say that only the people that paid enough got reviewed...not all manufactures have the surplus to send out reviews, and Anand is one of the few good 3rd party review sites. Ever read Cnet? Now there is a site to take with a grain of salt <rolls eyes>Anyway, as far as not showing the ATi performance relative to the other laptops I would imagine that that is because the 8600 performed above all those other laptops, and as such it would be redundant to show the ATi beating all of them time and again.
rehlers - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
I find it frustrating that I have yet to see a review done with the nVidia 5650 using the latest drivers. Sure, Dell is slow in releasing "official" drivers, but it took me all of 2 minutes to find an INF file patch to make the 52.16 drivers work on my Inspiron 8600, I'm sure the Anandtech staff could have found them as well. I realize the ATI 9600 is faster than the nVidia 5650, but I would like to see the latest drivers on one compared to the latest drivers on the other.Madcat207 - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
"Well, seeing as this is the first 9600 based production notebook they have in the lab in the moment, its kinda hard to bench it against any others. WHEN they review the Sager, I'm sure they will have the Voodoo benchie in there. "Funny, i have had my Sager 5680 with a 9600Pro for more than a month now. This Voodoo system is in no way the first to have that chip....
Anyway, in no way am i a troll.. i call it as i see it. as i see it, the only people reviewed were those who could pay enough to get reviewed...
Shalmanese - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
Well, seeing as this is the first 9600 based production notebook they have in the lab in the moment, its kinda hard to bench it against any others. WHEN they review the Sager, I'm sure they will have the Voodoo benchie in there.ssamurai26 - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
Ok, who makes the closest notebook to the Voodoo then?Locutus4657 - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
No offence.... But why didn't you compare the preformance of this notebook v. several other notebooks when it came to game preformance... I'm more than a little dissapointed to see yet another ATI/nVidia comparison in what should be a comparison of finished notebook products.KristopherKubicki - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
#7: AnandTech doesnt get paid to do reviews. What a troll. Did you even notice Andrew wrote this review and not Anand? I'm writing this on a Sager by the way.Kristopher
petz - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
"Up to par" with DELL's best? Is that what you call 50 to 100% higiher FPS on every benchmark?Madcat207 - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
In NO way is AW the closest.Unless your taking about the deepest pockets......
ssamurai26 - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
Yes, would have been nice to see some competition in there. It was interesting none the less, but it even says in the review that the closest competitor is Alienware. And Alienware has both fx5600go and M10 in their machines.Madcat207 - Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - link
Andrew, that is fine, but it still doesnt explain why there was no comparable model tested. Was Anand not paid enough to test a Sager along with it?Boonesmi - Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - link
unlike some of the folks above, i liked the review... and im looking forward to part 2 (part 2 will have the info im more interested in)Andrew Ku - Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - link
There is a reason that this can still be called a 9600 Pro. First of all, the revelation of the requirements for the Pro name only came to light in the last 48 hours. Sager themselves wouldn't have known about this until recently.Madcat207 - Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - link
No offence, but bad review.The Voodoo was put up against no real competition, so of course it won. Why did anandtech not bother with getting a Sager 5680 or 8890 to compare with, since those are P4 machines with real 9600 pros....
TheInvincibleMustard - Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - link
1) Is it hard to have the product in question (ie, the one being reviewed) highlighted in some way on the graphs? It can't be that hard to do the bar in red or whatever. Granted, when comparing the M10 to the Go5650, there's not as much sense, but when comparing 10 or so CPU's it'd sure be nice to quickly identify what stands where.2) Should the X2 performance scores with 4xAA/8xAF be taken with a grain of salt? Why does the M10 increase approx 25% going from 1024x768 to 1280x1024 ... ?
Adul - Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - link
The battery life performance will come in part 2 of this review.AlexWade - Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - link
Deat AT:What is the battery life on this notebook? I but notebooks based on battery life, not performence.