Just looking at the available CPU's gives me a headache.The new Xeon-SP naming scheme is a disaster. Just browsing I can't find any lower core count, high clock speed CPU's that are direct replacements for the E5-1xxx or E5-2xxx range. There are 6 and 8 core Xeon-SP CPUs but they're all >$1000.
Lack of competition in the high end market led Intel to dramatically increase prices over the last 5 years. Hopefully with the arrival of Epyc that will change.
Things appear to be looking good on that front. Epyc has been available for a while now but the cloud companies like Google and Facebook appear to be getting the entire production run as you still can't buy them commercially in small volumes. I saw the first company that would sell single servers actually offering Epyc for sale the other day. When we get the quarterly sale figures we'll see how bad AMD has impacted Intel sales volumes, if it's significant I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Xeon price cut out of it and it will need to be a darned big cut in pricing to get competitive with AMD prices.
Obviously Intel doesn't sell to Hp Xeons at the prices of official price list. There is a lot of discount for big brands, half the price or a third the of the "official" price is a common thing. You can be sure that Xeon 8180 is well below $4000 for Hp, all this pretty in line with Amd offering.
The HP Z2 mini G3 took a ridiculous 6 months ago from announcement to actual availability, HP needs to do a much better job with its production and logistics.
I've owned 4 different HP Z series workstations (my current home server is a Z230) but these models are not appealing at all due to the lack of Threadripper or EPYC support.
Once you're done drying your eyes about somethin that doesn't matter can you please please PLEASE get back on your knees and service this crooked piece of meat?
The dual Xeon 8180 CPUs are going to cost about $10k each, so that puts a floor on the system cost at around $25k. But most common configs would have 512GB of RAM or less - 256GB is probably more realistic.
My guess is that the "average" workstation outfitted with a pair of the top-tier of CPUs would come in around $35-40k, figuring the aforementioned 256-512GB of RAM, a couple SSDs, and a single high-end pro graphics card.
A new top-end HP workstation is always interesting.
The specification and features are excellent but, unless I'm missing something, there seems to be an aerodynamic flaw. The diagram of the cool and hot air flow is misleading as the forward CPU does not depict the outflow of hot air from the forward CPU at all. In reality, air would flow directly into the rearward processor. Also, if air were being pushed /drawn from the front into the rearward processor in the highly unlikely two level z-pattern flow shown, there would be a point of turbulence, reducing cooling effiicency. HP might consider an analogous condition: the horsepower limitation of the Harley-Davidson V-twin engine. The rear cylinder is fed heated air from the front cylinder and has a reduced air flow. The consequence is that H-D V-Twins engines have had to run on reduced compression- since WWI. In the previous HP z-series (BMW design), the dual processors were not aligned in this way. It's very orderly looking but it appears that the two processors will be running at quite different temperatures. I find the idea that HP, "did not want to use a liquid cooling system" puzzling and risky in light of the possibility of running up to $20,000+ worth of CPU's (yes, a single Xeon Platinum 8180 28-core costs $10,009) having a heat dissipation of 400W+. Why not liquid cooling? The HP z820 dual Processor and z420-single processor designs both had liquid cooling options. I use a z420 liquid cooler in a z620 that allows an E5-1680 v2 to run at 4.3GHz (140W) on all 8-cores and still idle at 30-33C.
Case Styling: in my view, the case styling is a miscalculation given the buyers. It's distracting, mal-proportioned, and tries for clunky-chunky aggressive. Imagine if a Dell Precision T1600 and Fatality Game Boy X-Destroyer Signature Extreme Mid-Tower had a baby. HP might also consider that "Z8" refers to a BMW retro car design of 1999 that tried to evoke a BMW 507- of 1955. Hmmm: Harley Davidson 1913 + 2014 Bad Boy Game Box + BMW 1955 / 1999: not especially evocative of the future.
I agree with Ej24's comment regarding the naming of the Xeon Scalable processors. The Silver, Gold, Platinum business is '80's discount store stuff. What is the relevance of the relative value of a metal- not necessarily present in the object? Perhaps it reflects the relative price, but no, that would be too crass. Choosing a processor is an engineering decision, not selecting costume jewelry.
The Xeon nomenclature in which no nomenclature or figure represents anything is also perverse obfuscation of the specification. At least one knew an E5-1650 v2 was an LGA2011 single processor second version using up to DDR3-1866 and a "1650" was always a 6-core. But a Xeon Gold can be a 4000, 5000, or 6000 series and we can't assume that means anything in particular: I don't think there can be 4, 5, or 6 CPU configurations. The other new Xeon series, the W-XXXX's is no better and it may be just me, or because everything is "X" and "Z" these days, but "W-XXXX" has a kind of '50's ring to it.
The HP Z8 has many positive features capable of the very highest performance, infinitely variable specification, and no doubt will have very good performance and excellent reliability, but unfortunately the Z8 feels to be a rushed and marketing committee driven design.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
11 Comments
Back to Article
Ej24 - Thursday, September 14, 2017 - link
Just looking at the available CPU's gives me a headache.The new Xeon-SP naming scheme is a disaster. Just browsing I can't find any lower core count, high clock speed CPU's that are direct replacements for the E5-1xxx or E5-2xxx range. There are 6 and 8 core Xeon-SP CPUs but they're all >$1000.rahvin - Thursday, September 14, 2017 - link
Lack of competition in the high end market led Intel to dramatically increase prices over the last 5 years. Hopefully with the arrival of Epyc that will change.Things appear to be looking good on that front. Epyc has been available for a while now but the cloud companies like Google and Facebook appear to be getting the entire production run as you still can't buy them commercially in small volumes. I saw the first company that would sell single servers actually offering Epyc for sale the other day. When we get the quarterly sale figures we'll see how bad AMD has impacted Intel sales volumes, if it's significant I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Xeon price cut out of it and it will need to be a darned big cut in pricing to get competitive with AMD prices.
Gondalf - Friday, September 15, 2017 - link
Obviously Intel doesn't sell to Hp Xeons at the prices of official price list.There is a lot of discount for big brands, half the price or a third the of the "official" price is a common thing.
You can be sure that Xeon 8180 is well below $4000 for Hp, all this pretty in line with Amd offering.
kgardas - Friday, September 15, 2017 - link
Intel recommends Xeon-W as a replacement for E5-16xx. Still, Xeon-SP offering is just price dissaster indeed.fazalmajid - Thursday, September 14, 2017 - link
The HP Z2 mini G3 took a ridiculous 6 months ago from announcement to actual availability, HP needs to do a much better job with its production and logistics.I've owned 4 different HP Z series workstations (my current home server is a Z230) but these models are not appealing at all due to the lack of Threadripper or EPYC support.
Slaveguy - Friday, September 15, 2017 - link
Once you're done drying your eyes about somethin that doesn't matter can you please please PLEASE get back on your knees and service this crooked piece of meat?Elstar - Friday, September 15, 2017 - link
I wonder what the two custom "internal only" PCIe x8 slots are for? NVMe storage? Seems likely based on the pictures.watersb - Saturday, September 16, 2017 - link
Hard to estimate prices for this beast, but it looks like the full-up, 3TB RAM configuration would cost about $250,000.Good thing they put a Kensington lock on these things.
twtech - Monday, September 18, 2017 - link
The dual Xeon 8180 CPUs are going to cost about $10k each, so that puts a floor on the system cost at around $25k. But most common configs would have 512GB of RAM or less - 256GB is probably more realistic.My guess is that the "average" workstation outfitted with a pair of the top-tier of CPUs would come in around $35-40k, figuring the aforementioned 256-512GB of RAM, a couple SSDs, and a single high-end pro graphics card.
BambiBoom - Saturday, September 16, 2017 - link
A new top-end HP workstation is always interesting.The specification and features are excellent but, unless I'm missing something, there seems to be an aerodynamic flaw. The diagram of the cool and hot air flow is misleading as the forward CPU does not depict the outflow of hot air from the forward CPU at all. In reality, air would flow directly into the rearward processor. Also, if air were being pushed /drawn from the front into the rearward processor in the highly unlikely two level z-pattern flow shown, there would be a point of turbulence, reducing cooling effiicency. HP might consider an analogous condition: the horsepower limitation of the Harley-Davidson V-twin engine. The rear cylinder is fed heated air from the front cylinder and has a reduced air flow. The consequence is that H-D V-Twins engines have had to run on reduced compression- since WWI. In the previous HP z-series (BMW design), the dual processors were not aligned in this way. It's very orderly looking but it appears that the two processors will be running at quite different temperatures. I find the idea that HP, "did not want to use a liquid cooling system" puzzling and risky in light of the possibility of running up to $20,000+ worth of CPU's (yes, a single Xeon Platinum 8180 28-core costs $10,009) having a heat dissipation of 400W+. Why not liquid cooling? The HP z820 dual Processor and z420-single processor designs both had liquid cooling options. I use a z420 liquid cooler in a z620 that allows an E5-1680 v2 to run at 4.3GHz (140W) on all 8-cores and still idle at 30-33C.
Case Styling: in my view, the case styling is a miscalculation given the buyers. It's distracting, mal-proportioned, and tries for clunky-chunky aggressive. Imagine if a Dell Precision T1600 and Fatality Game Boy X-Destroyer Signature Extreme Mid-Tower had a baby. HP might also consider that "Z8" refers to a BMW retro car design of 1999 that tried to evoke a BMW 507- of 1955. Hmmm: Harley Davidson 1913 + 2014 Bad Boy Game Box + BMW 1955 / 1999: not especially evocative of the future.
I agree with Ej24's comment regarding the naming of the Xeon Scalable processors. The Silver, Gold, Platinum business is '80's discount store stuff. What is the relevance of the relative value of a metal- not necessarily present in the object? Perhaps it reflects the relative price, but no, that would be too crass. Choosing a processor is an engineering decision, not selecting costume jewelry.
The Xeon nomenclature in which no nomenclature or figure represents anything is also perverse obfuscation of the specification. At least one knew an E5-1650 v2 was an LGA2011 single processor second version using up to DDR3-1866 and a "1650" was always a 6-core. But a Xeon Gold can be a 4000, 5000, or 6000 series and we can't assume that means anything in particular: I don't think there can be 4, 5, or 6 CPU configurations. The other new Xeon series, the W-XXXX's is no better and it may be just me, or because everything is "X" and "Z" these days, but "W-XXXX" has a kind of '50's ring to it.
The HP Z8 has many positive features capable of the very highest performance, infinitely variable specification, and no doubt will have very good performance and excellent reliability, but unfortunately the Z8 feels to be a rushed and marketing committee driven design.
BambiBoom