It's a good thing this went to retail. The A12 has the most powerful onboard GPU, the Iris 580 wouldn't come close if the Integrated R7 is paired with high speed dual channel ram.
I'm really curious about the A12, I've only seen one review of it (the non-E 65W version) but that was with DDR-2400 and the review didn't even state whether it was dual channel. Even then it beat out everything but the old Broadwell i7-5775C with 128MB L4 cache (which sells for ~$400 today).
The reviewer can't get it higher than DDR4 2400 even they do it today, as the motherboard (I tried a B350, not sure what will be seen for X370) do not have any settings for higher memory frequencies when Bristol Ridge APU and RAM with DDR4-3000 XMP profile are installed.
I was initially thinking it could take memory clocks similar to Ryzen but it does make sense that the memory controller wouldn't clock as high being on 28nm. Very similar clock ceiling to other 28nm APUs, though they were all DDR3.
Probably moot, but re OCs, the word as I recall from the very similar a10-7850k on the fm2+ mobos was, dont bother with the cpu, but the gpu OCs quite well - 900mhz rings a bell.
Thing is that they are only a little bit faster then the A10-7870k, they are clocked a bit higher and run cooler. I am still waiting for the Raven Ridge desktop APU's to do my Mineral Oil PC rebuild.
The CPU performance is a major bottleneck for Bristol ridge. The L2 of Excavator core are just too small for today standard. Any improvements by the faster GPU and DDR4 RAM support are negated by the change from Steamroller(Kaveri)->Excavator(Carrizo/BR). On some cases, the IPC gets a big hit and it is even slower than Trinity running at the same core frequency.
This make me wonder what performance Raven Ridge can achieve, when the CPU is no longer the bottleneck and further improvements on GPU part. Will it be much faster than 5775C?
I'm tempted to buy the A8-9600, just to have the AM4 system to later upgrade to Raven Ridge, but the rational part of me understand that it's not a good enough excuse. :)
The thing is, I'm really tempted to play around with Bristol Ridge, but I know I won't really do it. I hope that some hardware sites (perhaps Anandtech?) will do a comprehensive review of Bristol Ridge, testing various chips, overclocking, doing both games and computational loads (I've read it has great double precision performance in the GPU).
Absolutely agreed. I'm not going to pay $112.00 for an older inferior product. I have a spare AM4 board sitting around doing absolutely nothing, and I'm not going to do anything with it until I can put a real processor in it.
I not sure this CPU has any value of all. I understand game users that like AMD using Ryzen chips - but these chips don't seem to have any value at all.
I not talking about full laptops - I am typing this on Intel Computer Stick - yes it is 6y30 which almost has the speed i5 - definitely faster than my i3 NUC - but this little thing can fit in my pocket. This chip is not the Atom version - but the Atom versions is slight about $100 and all you need is monitor, keyboard and mouse.
Yeah, that's something I also don't get on the Intel side. There are some high end HDMI 2.0 motherboards there, but who's going to buy a $400 (or even $200) motherboard and use the integrated graphics? It's people who buy cheap CPU's for an HTPC who need HDMI 2.0.
I wonder if Qualcomm would have a solution for that. Widows 10 running on the snapdragon 835 might be a compelling low power, fanless option since it has better dedicated blocks for deciding (at least miles better than what Intel has you offer) and more up to date hdmi support.
Sounds interesting if you ask me. The price should also be very competitive too.
I seriously don't believe Snapdragon 835 is going to give serious native 86 apps even speed close to even Intel Atom. As a person that has 3 different Intel fanless machines - I would beg to differ - I would not doubt quad core fanless is coming soon - possible 8yxx series on in Cannon Lake - like 9xxx series
I would not say these have 'no value', but it is certainly a niche market. Small machines that cant use a dGPU, machines that have limited power/thermal capabilities but need OK graphics... heck, I am even debating getting something like this for my son's first PC as it is cheap and good enough for the basic games he will be playing. But you are right, for most situaitons, an APU is garbage. Typically you are better off with more CPU capabilities and lower GPU ability of an Intel chip for a similar price, or getting a chip with less on-board GPU power paired with a dGPU.
Up until recently I was using an APU for my home server. Not super quick or powerful... but low power and 'good enough' to saturate gigabit Ethernet... plus I got it for free from a friend who didn't need it anymore... so there is that. I guess when an APU is free then its value proposition improves rather dramatically lol.
Ok maybe say "Little Value" instead - just that there is better option now a days.
"But you are right, for most situaitons, an APU is garbage. Typically you are better off with more CPU capabilities and lower GPU ability of an Intel chip for a similar price, or getting a chip with less on-board GPU power paired with a dGPU"
That might be true for desktops and gaming machines - but not for average customer. Most customers don't need the dedicated GPU that is gaming machines - the internal GPU is well suited for their for example office needs. One of the smartest things Intel did is create its only integrated GPU's - this is great for notebooks - it does not need to be as powerful as NVidia and AMD external GPU but it does what it needs.
A good example is my dad, He needs to access internet for mail and online reservations, occasion word for documents. Does not do much need much graphics - only for limited use with pictures and possibly some videos. He would never ever build a desktop machine - and never has.
One note back in when I actually built my desktop machines - oddly back in Pentium 4 days - My dual Xeon had most of it already built - just add memory, hard drives and video card.
I included some of Pentium 4 with internal GPU, my thought if external GPU failed - at least I had GPU on machine to recovered it. I don't believe I ever used them - I built them for 3D Render Nodes so it was not really needed.
I think that the most compelling here is the A8-9600, for people who want to spend as little as possible and still have something that's decent and well rounded. The G4560 is theoretically cheaper, but more expensive in practice, and its integrated graphics are really cut down.
Btw, funny thing that the A12 is priced around Ryzen 3 1200. But you can get more performance for your money investing in G4560 plus an entry level GPU. Bristol Ridge was initially planned for mid-2016, why was the delay, why release now so close to RR?
It wasn't delayed, it was sold exclusively to OEMs. A good reason might be because AM4 consumer motherboards weren't available until earlier this year with Ryzen.
I have been checking Anandtech for ages now, but this is the first time I'm posting something. I usually don't feel like posting cause there's so much to learn from all of you, guys, and I know I am not on the same level. However, this time around I feel like I don't understand what you mean. The G4560 is certainly a nice entry level gaming CPU, BUT its built in GPU sucks, as it has already been established. You say that it makes much more sense to pair it with a cheap dGPU, but here's my question - how come? The G4560 is ±$99. Putting in a decent GPU (better than the one that is already built in modern i-series and AMD APU) would mean going for something that is AT LEAST $150. Isn't that so? Which makes the G4560 much, much more expensive (considering the price bracket we're discussing here), so I just don't get what you mean? Maybe you meant an entry level GPU like the 730 and such, which are cheaper, but I would never, ever invest in such a GPU. That's pure waste of money, considering that the 730 is about as powerful as the Intel HD 620.
This is exactly how I feel. And, as a system builder that sometimes builds computers for regular folk, these APU are nice. Low power and quiet, runs Windows, Office, Skype, and random eSports titles well; plus room for upgrade if their kids grow and want a serious gaming rig.
Well, I may be unusual, but for me this is the most exciting segment of the market.
Reason why is simple — I'm not interested in have a large box with a powerful cooling solution, and I don't want to spend an arm & a leg. Basically I like playing some PC games, and the box has to sit unobtrusively under the TV.
These APU parts and my needs are a match made in heaven. I've built a tiny box around a mini-ITX FM2+ board, currently with an A10-7800 that handles 1080p/low-medium settings on the games I'm interested for about £200 all in. (I started out with the 7850k, but swapped it for a 7800 as it was more power efficient/cooler.)
Frankly, to me, that's kind of magic. Packing in 512 SPs & 4 cores (2 'modules') in a 35W-65W envelope, all in a little box 8 cm high — it's like living in the future!
Not everyone wants or needs to be at the edge. A sensible test of the 35 watt chips and say the AMD 5350 o/c would be welcome as would the introduction of itx AM4 motherboards with a dc socket like the Asrock AM1H-ITX for the AM1 platform.
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Ro_Ja - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
It's a good thing this went to retail. The A12 has the most powerful onboard GPU, the Iris 580 wouldn't come close if the Integrated R7 is paired with high speed dual channel ram.notashill - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I'm really curious about the A12, I've only seen one review of it (the non-E 65W version) but that was with DDR-2400 and the review didn't even state whether it was dual channel. Even then it beat out everything but the old Broadwell i7-5775C with 128MB L4 cache (which sells for ~$400 today).babysam - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
The reviewer can't get it higher than DDR4 2400 even they do it today, as the motherboard (I tried a B350, not sure what will be seen for X370) do not have any settings for higher memory frequencies when Bristol Ridge APU and RAM with DDR4-3000 XMP profile are installed.notashill - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I was initially thinking it could take memory clocks similar to Ryzen but it does make sense that the memory controller wouldn't clock as high being on 28nm. Very similar clock ceiling to other 28nm APUs, though they were all DDR3.Ro_Ja - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
Good point. What's the use of the gpu if the processor is slow. I bet those Excavator cores bottleneck the GPU.msroadkill612 - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
Its a funny one.Probably moot, but re OCs, the word as I recall from the very similar a10-7850k on the fm2+ mobos was, dont bother with the cpu, but the gpu OCs quite well - 900mhz rings a bell.
The Benjamins - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Thing is that they are only a little bit faster then the A10-7870k, they are clocked a bit higher and run cooler. I am still waiting for the Raven Ridge desktop APU's to do my Mineral Oil PC rebuild.babysam - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
The CPU performance is a major bottleneck for Bristol ridge. The L2 of Excavator core are just too small for today standard. Any improvements by the faster GPU and DDR4 RAM support are negated by the change from Steamroller(Kaveri)->Excavator(Carrizo/BR). On some cases, the IPC gets a big hit and it is even slower than Trinity running at the same core frequency.This make me wonder what performance Raven Ridge can achieve, when the CPU is no longer the bottleneck and further improvements on GPU part. Will it be much faster than 5775C?
Kaggy - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Not sure about others but I'm waiting for raven ridge before making APU purchasesddriver - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Yep, RR will pack 4 cores in the same TDP. Kinda pointless this release, but they should have put all their resources into RR.ET - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I'm tempted to buy the A8-9600, just to have the AM4 system to later upgrade to Raven Ridge, but the rational part of me understand that it's not a good enough excuse. :)The thing is, I'm really tempted to play around with Bristol Ridge, but I know I won't really do it. I hope that some hardware sites (perhaps Anandtech?) will do a comprehensive review of Bristol Ridge, testing various chips, overclocking, doing both games and computational loads (I've read it has great double precision performance in the GPU).
bill.rookard - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Absolutely agreed. I'm not going to pay $112.00 for an older inferior product. I have a spare AM4 board sitting around doing absolutely nothing, and I'm not going to do anything with it until I can put a real processor in it.artk2219 - Friday, September 8, 2017 - link
Then dont spend $112, spend 60 or 70 and play around with it for a bit then sell or give away the old chip once you upgrade.https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Su...
nandnandnand - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Zen or death. Maybe even Zen+.Excavator might as well not exist. If you can't wait a year to upgrade...
HStewart - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I not sure this CPU has any value of all. I understand game users that like AMD using Ryzen chips - but these chips don't seem to have any value at all.duploxxx - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
@HStewart. they are perfect for home cinema. Good graphics and enough CPU power in low power platform.HStewart - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
But these are desktop chips - there are other forms factors that could provide smaller spaceMrSpadge - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
But the "other form factors" (i.e. laptop style) are usually more expensive.HStewart - Saturday, September 9, 2017 - link
I not talking about full laptops - I am typing this on Intel Computer Stick - yes it is 6y30 which almost has the speed i5 - definitely faster than my i3 NUC - but this little thing can fit in my pocket. This chip is not the Atom version - but the Atom versions is slight about $100 and all you need is monitor, keyboard and mouse.ToTTenTranz - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I haven't seen any AM4 motherboard with HDMI 2.0 though, which nullifies that advantage for a lot of people.ET - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
Yeah, that's something I also don't get on the Intel side. There are some high end HDMI 2.0 motherboards there, but who's going to buy a $400 (or even $200) motherboard and use the integrated graphics? It's people who buy cheap CPU's for an HTPC who need HDMI 2.0.lilmoe - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
I wonder if Qualcomm would have a solution for that. Widows 10 running on the snapdragon 835 might be a compelling low power, fanless option since it has better dedicated blocks for deciding (at least miles better than what Intel has you offer) and more up to date hdmi support.Sounds interesting if you ask me. The price should also be very competitive too.
HStewart - Saturday, September 9, 2017 - link
I seriously don't believe Snapdragon 835 is going to give serious native 86 apps even speed close to even Intel Atom. As a person that has 3 different Intel fanless machines - I would beg to differ - I would not doubt quad core fanless is coming soon - possible 8yxx series on in Cannon Lake - like 9xxx seriesCaedenV - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I would not say these have 'no value', but it is certainly a niche market. Small machines that cant use a dGPU, machines that have limited power/thermal capabilities but need OK graphics... heck, I am even debating getting something like this for my son's first PC as it is cheap and good enough for the basic games he will be playing.But you are right, for most situaitons, an APU is garbage. Typically you are better off with more CPU capabilities and lower GPU ability of an Intel chip for a similar price, or getting a chip with less on-board GPU power paired with a dGPU.
Up until recently I was using an APU for my home server. Not super quick or powerful... but low power and 'good enough' to saturate gigabit Ethernet... plus I got it for free from a friend who didn't need it anymore... so there is that. I guess when an APU is free then its value proposition improves rather dramatically lol.
HStewart - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Ok maybe say "Little Value" instead - just that there is better option now a days."But you are right, for most situaitons, an APU is garbage. Typically you are better off with more CPU capabilities and lower GPU ability of an Intel chip for a similar price, or getting a chip with less on-board GPU power paired with a dGPU"
That might be true for desktops and gaming machines - but not for average customer. Most customers don't need the dedicated GPU that is gaming machines - the internal GPU is well suited for their for example office needs. One of the smartest things Intel did is create its only integrated GPU's - this is great for notebooks - it does not need to be as powerful as NVidia and AMD external GPU but it does what it needs.
A good example is my dad, He needs to access internet for mail and online reservations, occasion word for documents. Does not do much need much graphics - only for limited use with pictures and possibly some videos. He would never ever build a desktop machine - and never has.
HStewart - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
One note back in when I actually built my desktop machines - oddly back in Pentium 4 days - My dual Xeon had most of it already built - just add memory, hard drives and video card.I included some of Pentium 4 with internal GPU, my thought if external GPU failed - at least I had GPU on machine to recovered it. I don't believe I ever used them - I built them for 3D Render Nodes so it was not really needed.
ET - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
I think that the most compelling here is the A8-9600, for people who want to spend as little as possible and still have something that's decent and well rounded. The G4560 is theoretically cheaper, but more expensive in practice, and its integrated graphics are really cut down.xXx][Zenith - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
A12-9800 compared to A10-7860K Kaveri:Rise of the Tomb Raider: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp45DQo8mUM
F1 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAZylXNgEto
xXx][Zenith - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Btw, funny thing that the A12 is priced around Ryzen 3 1200. But you can get more performance for your money investing in G4560 plus an entry level GPU. Bristol Ridge was initially planned for mid-2016, why was the delay, why release now so close to RR?ToTTenTranz - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
It wasn't delayed, it was sold exclusively to OEMs. A good reason might be because AM4 consumer motherboards weren't available until earlier this year with Ryzen.muamamu1 - Saturday, September 9, 2017 - link
I have been checking Anandtech for ages now, but this is the first time I'm posting something. I usually don't feel like posting cause there's so much to learn from all of you, guys, and I know I am not on the same level. However, this time around I feel like I don't understand what you mean. The G4560 is certainly a nice entry level gaming CPU, BUT its built in GPU sucks, as it has already been established. You say that it makes much more sense to pair it with a cheap dGPU, but here's my question - how come? The G4560 is ±$99. Putting in a decent GPU (better than the one that is already built in modern i-series and AMD APU) would mean going for something that is AT LEAST $150. Isn't that so? Which makes the G4560 much, much more expensive (considering the price bracket we're discussing here), so I just don't get what you mean? Maybe you meant an entry level GPU like the 730 and such, which are cheaper, but I would never, ever invest in such a GPU. That's pure waste of money, considering that the 730 is about as powerful as the Intel HD 620.Naris17 - Saturday, September 9, 2017 - link
This is exactly how I feel. And, as a system builder that sometimes builds computers for regular folk, these APU are nice. Low power and quiet, runs Windows, Office, Skype, and random eSports titles well; plus room for upgrade if their kids grow and want a serious gaming rig.Wolfpup - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
Certainly not a bad CPU or GPU, but kind of hard to get excited about for most of us.hallstein - Sunday, September 10, 2017 - link
Well, I may be unusual, but for me this is the most exciting segment of the market.Reason why is simple — I'm not interested in have a large box with a powerful cooling solution, and I don't want to spend an arm & a leg. Basically I like playing some PC games, and the box has to sit unobtrusively under the TV.
These APU parts and my needs are a match made in heaven. I've built a tiny box around a mini-ITX FM2+ board, currently with an A10-7800 that handles 1080p/low-medium settings on the games I'm interested for about £200 all in. (I started out with the 7850k, but swapped it for a 7800 as it was more power efficient/cooler.)
Frankly, to me, that's kind of magic. Packing in 512 SPs & 4 cores (2 'modules') in a 35W-65W envelope, all in a little box 8 cm high — it's like living in the future!
devBunny - Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - link
Excellent. I love the enthusiasm. :-DTarantella - Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - link
Quite right!Not everyone wants or needs to be at the edge. A sensible test of the 35 watt chips and say the AMD 5350 o/c would be welcome as would the introduction of itx AM4 motherboards with a dc socket like the Asrock AM1H-ITX for the AM1 platform.
someonesomewherelse - Saturday, October 14, 2017 - link
Where are the Ryzen based APUs?