Hi there. Can anyone tell me why they sell different processors (with one being better than the other) with the same price? I've been wondering about this for a while. Thanks!
Lower base/boost clocks probably allow for designs that need less cooling, better battery life or both. Also, don't think OEM's actually pay the publicly listed prices -- the slower chips are almost certainly cheaper in actual negotiated pricing.
On ARK the TDP, etc. for both SKUs looked the same. I like your observation about OEMs though; it totally seems plausible the public prices are only the same because they aren't the prices that matter.
You have to look at full specs. most likely the cause would be lower power (watt) profile and thus running cooler and requiring less cooling solution. the other difference could be other features such as vpro, ...
So Intel was sitting on this for how long? Content with rebadging 2 core chips with little improvement year to year because they had no competition? Thank you, AMD. Your chips will power my next few builds. Hopefully we will see widespread adoption of AMD chips in notebooks by next year.
yup. if they moved the screen down just a few mm to get the webcam back up there, and then extended the bottom of the screen down to 16:10 (or even further) this would go from being a good laptop to being best on the market.
16:10 is so unfortunately rare on a laptop. Basically the best ratio for productivity is on the surface...hopefully we have an 8th gen model in the near future.
That would be very nice, but knowing Microsoft, they don't have any plans on updating the surface laptop anytime soon.
I unfortunately can't wait as I have to pick a laptop now, and I would prefer to have a slower laptop with 3:2 aspect ratio than the faster and arguably better laptop with 16:9.
My Acer Switch Alpha 12 is basically a SP4 clone at half the price. I had a SP3 a long while ago but returned it due to hardware bugs - loved the design. Bought the Switch Alpha like ~8 months ago now and love it. Has a really nice 12" 3:2 screen, SSD, etc. I don't think they've announced a Coffeelake version of that yet, but today did reveal some other new ones.
I wish. It'd be the perfect do almost anything laptop. Unfortunately it'd require a massive redesign of the motherboard and cooling solution. I'm almost certain the new quad-cores fit on the same sized substrate as the old dual cores because the old dual core was an SOC so the cpu-pch package was already quite large. Being able to use the same size substrate means almost no redesign.
It would take a redesign as it never had the predecessor 940M. The closest model in size that has the MX150, the Xiaomi Air 13, is decidedly larger than the Dell.
I do wish Dell or Apple would make a 13" around it though, it's the most exciting low end laptop chip in a long time.
The 45W chips are the same ones that've powered mainstream 5/6 pound laptops for the last ~15 years. (While the nominal TDP of that class used to be 35W, that was when they had an ~10W northbridge as a discrete chip instead of being integrated on die.)
45W is hardly a 10 pound behemoth, that can be found in 4 pound laptops now.
(At that weight I'm already forgetting something's in my bag, so it's puzzling to me seeing reviews like on the Verge squabble over 2 pound vs 3 pound Macbooks)
I knew this was coming, this is a perfect fit for both new CPU's and Dell XPS. I have an Dell XPS 13 2in1 and it awesome machine - love the 2in1 factor and Dell / Intel created a new high performance mode that makes it feel like i5 even though it is a i7-7y75
I am curious about two things 1. does the new XPS have new dynamic power mode as in the 2in1 2.Will Intel create a 4 Core ( guessing i7-8Y85 ) with 4 cores possible this is will be 10nm ( guessing i7-9Y95 ) - not sure about naming conventions once it gets to 10th generation ( likely Ice Lake )
Are there any systems with 4X Thunderbolts ( not talking USB 3.1 ), but real 40Gb Thunderbolt ports. 2X would be awesome for me - I have only one on my Dell XPS 13 2in1 plus a normal 3.1 Gen 1
But 4X Thunderbolts would take real-estate on laptop, plus increases out facing ports which degrade reliability from dust and other outside potential for damage.
The MacBook Pros have 4X Thunderbolt 3 ports right? I think they use 2 2-port controllers, not sure if that means 40Gbps on each controller (80Gbps total) or 40Gbps each port (160Gbps total).
But only in the more expensive models with the Touch Bar.
My guess the system distributes speed though system.
One question besides expansion to dock - like my XPS 13 2in1, how would you used the extra Thunderbolt controllers - storage option are available but currently expensive.
The Macbook Pro function keys has full 40Gbps on two ports.
The Macbook Pro Touchbar has full 40Gbps on the two left side ports, and half speed 20Gbps on the right side ports, just since it has twice the outward ports.
The 15" has 40 on all 4, done through dual controllers
I think you're talking about number of ports? I was talking about PCI-E lanes. The Dell above only provides 2X PCI-E lanes to its Thunderbolt 2 port, for 20Gbps. The Macbook pro provides 4x PCI-E lanes, for the full spec of 40Gbps.
This is the single most important thing that reviewers will have to check. Supposedly the latest BIOS update has greatly reduced this plague for 9360 owners. But this needs to be thoroughly assed in upcoming models.
I keep reading that Dell will release the i5 8th gen in October. I called Dell today to find out what date, and the salesperson (with foreign accent) said it will be months before it's released!!! She said she doesn't know what date, but that it won't be October, and that Marketing decides. I asked her if she had read everything on the web that says October, she said no. So, I'm wondering - is this a ploy to get me to buy the i7 now? Will the i5 be released in October or not?
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kenansadhu - Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - link
Hi there. Can anyone tell me why they sell different processors (with one being better than the other) with the same price? I've been wondering about this for a while. Thanks!ace24 - Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - link
Lower base/boost clocks probably allow for designs that need less cooling, better battery life or both. Also, don't think OEM's actually pay the publicly listed prices -- the slower chips are almost certainly cheaper in actual negotiated pricing.twotwotwo - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
On ARK the TDP, etc. for both SKUs looked the same. I like your observation about OEMs though; it totally seems plausible the public prices are only the same because they aren't the prices that matter.Rickyxds - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Monopoly! Hahaha thanks AMD for come backXZerg - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
You have to look at full specs. most likely the cause would be lower power (watt) profile and thus running cooler and requiring less cooling solution. the other difference could be other features such as vpro, ...anactoraaron - Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - link
So Intel was sitting on this for how long? Content with rebadging 2 core chips with little improvement year to year because they had no competition? Thank you, AMD. Your chips will power my next few builds. Hopefully we will see widespread adoption of AMD chips in notebooks by next year.ddriver - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Not really, they had mobile quads for a while.Azune - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Not at 15 Watts though.HStewart - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Yes in dead - this is significant with almost 50% performance increase and still 15watts.This is way of future not huge monstrous CPU's that bring me back to day when I built a Pentium Pro machine.
Nozuka - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
You could also blame AMD that Intel was able to slack off for years....geepat - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Only if you blame Intel for cheating their way into the market in the early 2000s when AMD had the better product.piroroadkill - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
The amount of work and money Intel put in to making sure AMD could not compete on a level playing field is incredible. Do a little research.CedarWind - Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - link
Now if they could only update it with a screen that's not 16:9thesavvymage - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
yup. if they moved the screen down just a few mm to get the webcam back up there, and then extended the bottom of the screen down to 16:10 (or even further) this would go from being a good laptop to being best on the market.Samus - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
16:10 is so unfortunately rare on a laptop. Basically the best ratio for productivity is on the surface...hopefully we have an 8th gen model in the near future.Dug - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
That would be very nice, but knowing Microsoft, they don't have any plans on updating the surface laptop anytime soon.I unfortunately can't wait as I have to pick a laptop now, and I would prefer to have a slower laptop with 3:2 aspect ratio than the faster and arguably better laptop with 16:9.
Kakti - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
My Acer Switch Alpha 12 is basically a SP4 clone at half the price. I had a SP3 a long while ago but returned it due to hardware bugs - loved the design. Bought the Switch Alpha like ~8 months ago now and love it. Has a really nice 12" 3:2 screen, SSD, etc. I don't think they've announced a Coffeelake version of that yet, but today did reveal some other new ones.hxxps://techreport.com/news/32483/acer-switch-convertibles-and-chromebook-15-are-on-the-move
kitty4427 - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
An XPS 13 with MX150 graphics would be the perfect college laptop.Ej24 - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
I wish. It'd be the perfect do almost anything laptop. Unfortunately it'd require a massive redesign of the motherboard and cooling solution. I'm almost certain the new quad-cores fit on the same sized substrate as the old dual cores because the old dual core was an SOC so the cpu-pch package was already quite large. Being able to use the same size substrate means almost no redesign.tipoo - Friday, September 1, 2017 - link
It would take a redesign as it never had the predecessor 940M. The closest model in size that has the MX150, the Xiaomi Air 13, is decidedly larger than the Dell.I do wish Dell or Apple would make a 13" around it though, it's the most exciting low end laptop chip in a long time.
Daniel Egger - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Finally Intel is catching up with this "smaller at any cost" nonsense...willis936 - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
The 45W parts have always been waiting for you in their 10 pound behemoths.DanNeely - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
The 45W chips are the same ones that've powered mainstream 5/6 pound laptops for the last ~15 years. (While the nominal TDP of that class used to be 35W, that was when they had an ~10W northbridge as a discrete chip instead of being integrated on die.)Meteor2 - Thursday, August 31, 2017 - link
I never knew that (the reason for 35W going to 45W). Thanks.tipoo - Friday, September 1, 2017 - link
45W is hardly a 10 pound behemoth, that can be found in 4 pound laptops now.(At that weight I'm already forgetting something's in my bag, so it's puzzling to me seeing reviews like on the Verge squabble over 2 pound vs 3 pound Macbooks)
HStewart - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
I be honest here, with smaller motherboard - even close for changes - longer life exists - because lets be honest - we are human and make mistakes.My Xeon is rare beast, it is only living desktop in my procession.
ajp_anton - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Double the CPU cores, but half the GPU units. Hope they will keep the old CPUs as an option.tipoo - Friday, September 1, 2017 - link
Probably means no Macbook Pro 13 with it yet, as they choose the most performant IGP
HStewart - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
I knew this was coming, this is a perfect fit for both new CPU's and Dell XPS. I have an Dell XPS 13 2in1 and it awesome machine - love the 2in1 factor and Dell / Intel created a new high performance mode that makes it feel like i5 even though it is a i7-7y75I am curious about two things
1. does the new XPS have new dynamic power mode as in the 2in1
2.Will Intel create a 4 Core ( guessing i7-8Y85 ) with 4 cores possible this is will be 10nm ( guessing i7-9Y95 ) - not sure about naming conventions once it gets to 10th generation ( likely Ice Lake )
tipoo - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
So close to ideal...But a 2x rather than 4X Thunderbolt port...So close!A 8th gen quad and TB3 @ 4X would be an attractive combo.
HStewart - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Are there any systems with 4X Thunderbolts ( not talking USB 3.1 ), but real 40Gb Thunderbolt ports. 2X would be awesome for me - I have only one on my Dell XPS 13 2in1 plus a normal 3.1 Gen 1But 4X Thunderbolts would take real-estate on laptop, plus increases out facing ports which degrade reliability from dust and other outside potential for damage.
ryanpither - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
The MacBook Pros have 4X Thunderbolt 3 ports right? I think they use 2 2-port controllers, not sure if that means 40Gbps on each controller (80Gbps total) or 40Gbps each port (160Gbps total).HStewart - Thursday, August 31, 2017 - link
But only in the more expensive models with the Touch Bar.My guess the system distributes speed though system.
One question besides expansion to dock - like my XPS 13 2in1, how would you used the extra Thunderbolt controllers - storage option are available but currently expensive.
tipoo - Friday, September 1, 2017 - link
The Macbook Pro function keys has full 40Gbps on two ports.The Macbook Pro Touchbar has full 40Gbps on the two left side ports, and half speed 20Gbps on the right side ports, just since it has twice the outward ports.
The 15" has 40 on all 4, done through dual controllers
tipoo - Friday, September 1, 2017 - link
I think you're talking about number of ports? I was talking about PCI-E lanes. The Dell above only provides 2X PCI-E lanes to its Thunderbolt 2 port, for 20Gbps. The Macbook pro provides 4x PCI-E lanes, for the full spec of 40Gbps.Meteor2 - Thursday, August 31, 2017 - link
Thank god it's at least two -- you can power it from your monitor while still having fast external storage. Having just one was useless.tipoo - Friday, September 1, 2017 - link
Wasn't talking about number of ports, but PCI-E lanes. Dell only provides 2 here, for 20Gbps. Apple has 4x PCI-E lanes on TB3, for 40Gbps.tipoo - Friday, September 1, 2017 - link
Seem to have caused some confusion here, this was in reference to number of PCI-E lanes, not number of ports (there is only one)"(...) the Thunderbolt 3 port will be limited by the same 2-lane 20 Gbps bandwidth instead of the more common 4-lane 40 Gbps standard."
Spede - Friday, September 1, 2017 - link
Two words : COIL WHINE.This is the single most important thing that reviewers will have to check. Supposedly the latest BIOS update has greatly reduced this plague for 9360 owners. But this needs to be thoroughly assed in upcoming models.
tipoo - Friday, September 1, 2017 - link
I hope so too, Dell reps had been saying a mobo redesign was in the works to address it, so coinciding with 8th gen processors would make sense.
lcosti - Monday, October 2, 2017 - link
I keep reading that Dell will release the i5 8th gen in October. I called Dell today to find out what date, and the salesperson (with foreign accent) said it will be months before it's released!!! She said she doesn't know what date, but that it won't be October, and that Marketing decides. I asked her if she had read everything on the web that says October, she said no. So, I'm wondering - is this a ploy to get me to buy the i7 now? Will the i5 be released in October or not?