Be warned. They still need to work on the power supply for these systems. I own a Shuttle, and basically had to rip out the crappy 200W PSU and use an external 350W PSU (probably 300W may have been enough). With the stock PSU, the system would basically hang after any kind of intensive activity (try a stress test on the system for an hour or so).
These systems overdrive the PSU, and while you will hear stories of people running 17 harddrives and their latest ATI Bongo 945600 on an overclocked box -- those are very much the exceptions. You either have to hook up a better PSU externally -- basically invalidating the whole purpose behind a SFF in the first place, or you have to play roulette with reordering 200W PSUs until you get a particular item which may work overdriven (but for how long?)
I see SHuttle has 220W PSU's in their newer versions, which should help.. but considering that people run the same hardware with 350W PSU's in bigger boxes, I still remain *very* suspicious of their claims.
#11 - The Shuttle and Biostar are the same size. A review will be posted shortly on the Soltek SFF which is a bit taller and has 2-5.25" bays and a 250W PS. I've included a picture of the Soltek and Biostar side-by-side in that review.
#20 - As you can see on the Shuttle and Biostar Forums on some boards, users have been modifying these machines. You are correct that the internal USB headers have no matching punch-out for an external header, but most USB connectors are on slot brackets and you could certainly get a 4-port slot bracket for one of the two slots in the rear. Also you could use a hard-drive where the floppy goes - just be very careful of heat build-up. It should work fine.
Can someone explain to me what "internal" USB ports are for? I note the sb65g2 has a total of 6 ports (4 rear, 2 front) while the 200t has 4 (2 rear, 2 front). But the article says the 200t has 4 more "internal" USB ports, and the sb65g2 has 2 more internally. There's no breakout (that I noticed) for adding more external ports using a header (like the parallel port header allows), so what good are internal ports?
Also, is there any reason why one could not put a second hard drive where the floppy goes, like one can do in the sb65g2?
(I'm really torn between the two machines!!! Grrr.)
I would like to upgrade from my present SFF (ASUS Terminator) but want to install dual HDs. Your review mentioned an optional dual HD cage. Any info available on where this might be found. Typically I've found that optional items on SFF machines are not available (except maybe in Taiwan).
Post #10 - perhaps you _should_ test the SPDIF input. That was the problem when I bought the Biostar 200N - Biostar said that it had input, every reviewer said the same... turns out that it was on Biostar's spec page, and every reviewer just took their word for it.
Would your review be so glowing if it turned out that a major feature for some wasn't really there? Don't reviewers have some responsibility to ensure that all advertised features actually are present?
It ain't that hard to test - hook up your PS2 or similar, and see if it passes audio, no?
A 30dB box is possible, if you're very careful. Use very low-noise fans, be extremely careful with airflow, put passive sinking on everything possible, and maybe put some Dynamat on the side case.
I think the dimensions of the box is important for SFF reviews. I can always go find em myself but It'd be nice to reference them from the review. Maybe even a size comparion between the Biostar and the Shuttles. Just a thought :)
#8 - You are correct, but the picture was to illustrate how the card slots are used on most SFF machines - not to point out a feature on the Biostar. I have changed the text to make it clear that the slot cage picture is a similar Shuttle SFF.
#10 - I did test the SPDIF out with a Dolby Digital receiver and it works as it should. I did not check SPDIF in.
* I'd like to see confirmation that the SPDIFs function as listed in the review - in input, one output. The same was claimed for the 200N, and it was simply not true, despite Biostar's and many reviewers assertions to the contrary. Biostar ended up pulling that spec when I bitched about it (and did nothing else). Biostar does not stand behind its product in that regard.
* The box is very quiet, so much so that I use it as an HTPC. I did not do any scientific measurement, but it is simply not audibile from more than 2 feet away.
* The build quality is excellent, best in an SFF that i've seen.
* The stability of the AMD version is flawless.
Biostar is, IMO, building better SFFs than Shuttle, but due to their reluctance to address the SPDIF issue that bit me, I won't be buying any more Biostar product.
The last photo on page 2 is in fact NOT a picture of an iDEQ box, but shows a picture of a the back of a Shuttle box and then describes (in words) the iDEC.
Benchmarks are only relevant as comparisons. The measured noise level of the Biostar is about the same as a Shuttle, which is considered the standard for quiet in an SFF.
Measuring 4" from the center of each side is a carryover from earlier SFF tests done at AnandTech. That is likely the result of using test instruments with a threshold of 50db. Our new instrumetn can measure to 35db.
We will add a sound level measurement to future reviews from the working position - about 0.62 meters or 2 feet from the front of the SFF to the ear.
"We measured noise from the middle of each one of the four sides, 4" from the chassis."
I assume most people are not in the habit of placing their computers 4" away from theirs ears. The biostar is about the same loudness as a shuttle which is pretty damn quiet.
Furthermore, 50dba is 10x the noise level of 40dba, correct, but your hearing does not work on the same scale. i do not recall the exact numbers but i think its quite lower than 10x
50-60dBA is conversation level volume. Of course, its white noise and relatively low frequency. I have serious doubts that your tower is 30dBA (except for the advertisement that says it is). about 35 dba is on the threshold of a whisper. Unless you live in a soundlab your ambient noise level should be around 30dba.
Yeah, #1 (uh.. and #2, doublepostage?) is right. 60dB is fscking loud, as anyone who's owned a Black Label can attest. My tower used to put out ~40 decibels of noise, and it was a touch loud (didn't bother me much though). "So?" you say? 50 decibels is 10 times 40 decibels. The wonders of non-linear scales.
Am I missing something here? How can 50-60 dBA be considered quiet? That's freight train level noise for a PC, especially with the quieter towers coming in at about 30 dBA.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
23 Comments
Back to Article
Anonymous User - Monday, October 6, 2003 - link
http://www.sfftech.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=442Even nicer!
Anonymous User - Sunday, October 5, 2003 - link
Be warned. They still need to work on the power supply for these systems. I own a Shuttle, and basically had to rip out the crappy 200W PSU and use an external 350W PSU (probably 300W may have been enough). With the stock PSU, the system would basically hang after any kind of intensive activity (try a stress test on the system for an hour or so).These systems overdrive the PSU, and while you will hear stories of people running 17 harddrives and their latest ATI Bongo 945600 on an overclocked box -- those are very much the exceptions. You either have to hook up a better PSU externally -- basically invalidating the whole purpose behind a SFF in the first place, or you have to play roulette with reordering 200W PSUs until you get a particular item which may work overdriven (but for how long?)
I see SHuttle has 220W PSU's in their newer versions, which should help.. but considering that people run the same hardware with 350W PSU's in bigger boxes, I still remain *very* suspicious of their claims.
Wesley Fink - Saturday, October 4, 2003 - link
#11 - The Shuttle and Biostar are the same size. A review will be posted shortly on the Soltek SFF which is a bit taller and has 2-5.25" bays and a 250W PS. I've included a picture of the Soltek and Biostar side-by-side in that review.#20 - As you can see on the Shuttle and Biostar Forums on some boards, users have been modifying these machines. You are correct that the internal USB headers have no matching punch-out for an external header, but most USB connectors are on slot brackets and you could certainly get a 4-port slot bracket for one of the two slots in the rear. Also you could use a hard-drive where the floppy goes - just be very careful of heat build-up. It should work fine.
Anonymous User - Friday, October 3, 2003 - link
Can someone explain to me what "internal" USB ports are for? I note the sb65g2 has a total of 6 ports (4 rear, 2 front) while the 200t has 4 (2 rear, 2 front). But the article says the 200t has 4 more "internal" USB ports, and the sb65g2 has 2 more internally. There's no breakout (that I noticed) for adding more external ports using a header (like the parallel port header allows), so what good are internal ports?Also, is there any reason why one could not put a second hard drive where the floppy goes, like one can do in the sb65g2?
(I'm really torn between the two machines!!! Grrr.)
Anonymous User - Thursday, October 2, 2003 - link
I would like to upgrade from my present SFF (ASUS Terminator) but want to install dual HDs. Your review mentioned an optional dual HD cage. Any info available on where this might be found. Typically I've found that optional items on SFF machines are not available (except maybe in Taiwan).hirschma - Wednesday, October 1, 2003 - link
Post #10 - perhaps you _should_ test the SPDIF input. That was the problem when I bought the Biostar 200N - Biostar said that it had input, every reviewer said the same... turns out that it was on Biostar's spec page, and every reviewer just took their word for it.Would your review be so glowing if it turned out that a major feature for some wasn't really there?
Don't reviewers have some responsibility to ensure that all advertised features actually are present?
It ain't that hard to test - hook up your PS2 or similar, and see if it passes audio, no?
rhacquer - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
Oh, I got the jones for a SFF rig now... soon as we put on a new roof, pay for baby's private school, replace my 12 yr old car, etc. :-(Anonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
post # 14 - SIZEAnonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
50 Dba is twice as loud as 40Dba, not 10x as much.Anonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
fill me in on the power supply .. why are the sff's 200 watts versus pc at 450 or so? why so much less power?Anonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
A 30dB box is possible, if you're very careful. Use very low-noise fans, be extremely careful with airflow, put passive sinking on everything possible, and maybe put some Dynamat on the side case.Anonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
Great review. I havethe 200T and love it, SFF Tech has a dedicated biostar forum too if you own one of these boxeshttp://forums.sudhian.com/categories.cfm?catid=96&...
Anonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
I think the dimensions of the box is important for SFF reviews. I can always go find em myself but It'd be nice to reference them from the review. Maybe even a size comparion between the Biostar and the Shuttles. Just a thought :)Wesley Fink - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
#8 -You are correct, but the picture was to illustrate how the card slots are used on most SFF machines - not to point out a feature on the Biostar. I have changed the text to make it clear that the slot cage picture is a similar Shuttle SFF.
#10 -
I did test the SPDIF out with a Dolby Digital receiver and it works as it should. I did not check SPDIF in.
hirschma - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
Some commentary from an iDEQ 200N owner...* I'd like to see confirmation that the SPDIFs function as listed in the review - in input, one output. The same was claimed for the 200N, and it was simply not true, despite Biostar's and many reviewers assertions to the contrary. Biostar ended up pulling that spec when I bitched about it (and did nothing else). Biostar does not stand behind its product in that regard.
* The box is very quiet, so much so that I use it as an HTPC. I did not do any scientific measurement, but it is simply not audibile from more than 2 feet away.
* The build quality is excellent, best in an SFF that i've seen.
* The stability of the AMD version is flawless.
Biostar is, IMO, building better SFFs than Shuttle, but due to their reluctance to address the SPDIF issue that bit me, I won't be buying any more Biostar product.
jonathan
Netopia - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
The last photo on page 2 is in fact NOT a picture of an iDEQ box, but shows a picture of a the back of a Shuttle box and then describes (in words) the iDEC.Joe
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
Benchmarks are only relevant as comparisons. The measured noise level of the Biostar is about the same as a Shuttle, which is considered the standard for quiet in an SFF.Measuring 4" from the center of each side is a carryover from earlier SFF tests done at AnandTech. That is likely the result of using test instruments with a threshold of 50db. Our new instrumetn can measure to 35db.
We will add a sound level measurement to future reviews from the working position - about 0.62 meters or 2 feet from the front of the SFF to the ear.
Shalmanese - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
"We measured noise from the middle of each one of the four sides, 4" from the chassis."I assume most people are not in the habit of placing their computers 4" away from theirs ears. The biostar is about the same loudness as a shuttle which is pretty damn quiet.
Shalmanese - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
It would be a good idea to hook up a good 500W power supply to the SFF to test just HOW limited overclocking is hampered by the 200W PS.Anonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
Furthermore, 50dba is 10x the noise level of 40dba, correct, but your hearing does not work on the same scale. i do not recall the exact numbers but i think its quite lower than 10xAnonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
50-60dBA is conversation level volume. Of course, its white noise and relatively low frequency. I have serious doubts that your tower is 30dBA (except for the advertisement that says it is). about 35 dba is on the threshold of a whisper. Unless you live in a soundlab your ambient noise level should be around 30dba.Anonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
Yeah, #1 (uh.. and #2, doublepostage?) is right. 60dB is fscking loud, as anyone who's owned a Black Label can attest. My tower used to put out ~40 decibels of noise, and it was a touch loud (didn't bother me much though). "So?" you say? 50 decibels is 10 times 40 decibels. The wonders of non-linear scales.Anonymous User - Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - link
Am I missing something here? How can 50-60 dBA be considered quiet? That's freight train level noise for a PC, especially with the quieter towers coming in at about 30 dBA.